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Salamence (Full Revamp)
- Thread starter Great Sage
- Start date
- Status
Could Salamence incorporate Iron Defence and Roost into any of its movesets? I know this is not something new, but I was wondering if Salamence could be used as a Mixed Wall with max SpD, and Intimidate and Iron Defence to increase its Def?
Although your attacking options would be severely limited...
Although your attacking options would be severely limited...
Perhaps Superpower with neutral nature would do? I'm getting 406 - 478 Damage to 714 / 130 Defense Blissey (and who the hell uses that anymore?) It's not quite a 2HKO sadly with the worst case scenario being left with 75 HP. Still, that's factoring in the following:Choice Specs said:
- Switching into Stealth Rock
- Attack once with Superpower
- Leftovers recover
- 2nd Superpower with -1 Atk
Yeah, I'd consider it as an option at the very least.
Guys, the being set up on thing doesn't matter at all. Draco Meteor once it KOs something IS set up fodder already, and if you're scared of letting BellyZard come in or whatever you can just not use the ground move that turn. Hydro Pump is literally for one Pokémon, and it doesn't even reliably take it out counting accuracy and damage dealt.
Great Sage
Banned deucer.
You're underestimating Draco Meteor's power. A STAB attack that is functionally 70 base power from 350 Special Attack and backed by Choice Specs still hurts quite a lot.
So, any word on mixmence? The Draco Meteor / Fire Blast / Brick Break set is obsolete IMO. Dragonite has that outclassed thanks to Superpower.
I think Draco Meteor should be an option on the Choice Scarf set next to Hydro Pump. It can still revenge a few things with its high base power and won't lock you in.
Also, Earthquake > Hydro Pump / HP Ground on the Choice Specs set. With a neutral nature, it does more to Heatran and Empoleon and ideally you never use that move anyway.
I think Draco Meteor should be an option on the Choice Scarf set next to Hydro Pump. It can still revenge a few things with its high base power and won't lock you in.
Also, Earthquake > Hydro Pump / HP Ground on the Choice Specs set. With a neutral nature, it does more to Heatran and Empoleon and ideally you never use that move anyway.
Hmm, I'm not too sure it is obsolete, Raikou. Salamence can still do it effectively because of its higher base SpA and Spe, even though it doesn't have Superpower. That is like saying why don't we remove the Physically/Specially Bulky sets from the analysis because Dragonite does them better due to its higher defences.
Mixmence is still an excellent wall breaker, more so now because Draco Meteor isnt really expected since almost all Mence are either CB or DD Outrage. For Dragonite, on the other hand, Mix is the thing it does best, and so the Draco Meteor can be easily predicted.
I don't think we should exclude Mixmence from the analysis.
Mixmence is still an excellent wall breaker, more so now because Draco Meteor isnt really expected since almost all Mence are either CB or DD Outrage. For Dragonite, on the other hand, Mix is the thing it does best, and so the Draco Meteor can be easily predicted.
I don't think we should exclude Mixmence from the analysis.
Point taken. Any word on Earthquake on the last slot though? It sounds like there's really no reason not to use it, especially because Hydro Pump is really really bad, horribly inaccurate, and only hits one Pokémon when Earthquake hits 3.
I'm not suggesting for a second that we exclude Mixmence from the analysis. I just think that particular version is obselete. Dragonite does what it is doing better, and there is a new, more effective version of it that I posted back. I've been using mixmence for months, but the addition of Outrage makes it twice as devastating.
See: 1st page. And I know I'm not the only one using this that will attest to how awesome this set is. Draco Meteor + Outrage beats every wall in the game. Earthquake beats Heatran and Tyranitar... and will beat Tyranitar if he ever gets any bright ideas about switching in on a Draco Meteor.
Well. I leave a Set that I created:
Salamence @ Life Orb
Mild Nature [ +Sp.Atk -Def ]
252 Evs Atk / 134 Sp.Atk / 122 Spd
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Hydro Pump
- Fire Blast
This EVs in Atk are OHKO with Outrage + 1 DD to Blissey. Fire Blast is OHKO to Skarmory. Hidro pump for Heatran, Rhyperior, Tyranitar and other pk.
Salamence @ Life Orb
Mild Nature [ +Sp.Atk -Def ]
252 Evs Atk / 134 Sp.Atk / 122 Spd
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Hydro Pump
- Fire Blast
This EVs in Atk are OHKO with Outrage + 1 DD to Blissey. Fire Blast is OHKO to Skarmory. Hidro pump for Heatran, Rhyperior, Tyranitar and other pk.
That's no good, it doesn't even outspeed +speed scarftran after a DD. Earthquake could smack most of them anyway. And a lot of bulky waters from Swampert to Empoloeon will love to see this thing as well.
Earthquake also can became a good option, but don't is OHKO to Rhype, etc. With Hidro pump maybe could hit to more types and Heatran don't hit you OHKO.
Idk Skiddle, aside from hitting those 3 pokemon Brick Break is meh... I mean the set still works... I'm just saying the other one is more explosive. The Draco Meteor / Brick Break / FB / Roost sure Salamence can use it... but Dragonite likes that set more, and Salamence will cause more damage using the other varient of mixmence. I guess they both could be used, but that one at least deserves its own set write up then. It destroys teams.
I agree with RaikouLover. I use the same Outrage / Fire Blast / EQ / Draco Meteor set, and it works wonders. While the old Mixmence set struggles to get past Cresselia, this set has perfect type coverage and the ability to 2HKO almost every wall in the game.
Unlike Wallbreaker Dragonite, the set also allows Salamence to sweep on its own once walls have been significantly broken down. It is an excellent answer to the many TrickScarfers that run around due the Salamence's naturally high offenses, the unparalled type coverage, and the high base power of the moves. I feel that this new version of MixMence has more of a place in today's fast paced metagame and works more effectively at breaking walls.
What the hell is the problem with Hydro Pump? It has 80% accuracy, and I'm definitely not going to shrug and call that horrible by any means. Focus Blast from Gengar has 70% accuracy and it's used anyways. What's the difference here?
I'm agreeing that Earthquake might be the better option over Hidden Power Ground. If supposedly Tentacruel is 2HKO'd by Earthquake then it's made it's excuse (to me anyways) to be added to the set.
With Dragonite in comparison to MixMence we have to remember a couple of things. First off Dragonite lacks Crunch: something that makes Salamence a true monster here. A combination of Draco Meteor and Crunch takes out (IIRC) every Cresselia and Dusknoir off the face of the planet. If there was any other move I might even come close to thinking abouton the MixMence set it might be Outrage over Brick Break and even so it has problems using that alreadly.
Choice Band Salamence suggestions:
[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Outrage
move 2: Stone Edge
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Brick Break / Earthquake
item: Choice Band
nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
The only real excuse, to me, when it came to Crunch was Dusknoir and Cresselia and Outrage outclasses it in power now. This means Crunch can simply be removed in favour for another attack. Brick Break is kind of weak in power but works. I feel that Stone Edge and Fire Blast are solid options on the set.
I'm agreeing that Earthquake might be the better option over Hidden Power Ground. If supposedly Tentacruel is 2HKO'd by Earthquake then it's made it's excuse (to me anyways) to be added to the set.
With Dragonite in comparison to MixMence we have to remember a couple of things. First off Dragonite lacks Crunch: something that makes Salamence a true monster here. A combination of Draco Meteor and Crunch takes out (IIRC) every Cresselia and Dusknoir off the face of the planet. If there was any other move I might even come close to thinking abouton the MixMence set it might be Outrage over Brick Break and even so it has problems using that alreadly.
Choice Band Salamence suggestions:
[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Outrage
move 2: Stone Edge
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Brick Break / Earthquake
item: Choice Band
nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
The only real excuse, to me, when it came to Crunch was Dusknoir and Cresselia and Outrage outclasses it in power now. This means Crunch can simply be removed in favour for another attack. Brick Break is kind of weak in power but works. I feel that Stone Edge and Fire Blast are solid options on the set.
For Draco Meteor and Crunch on the same set (assuming old Mixmence), then you end up losing either Roost or a fire attack.
-If you give up Roost (the sets primary option over Crunch), then you have a MixMence using 4 attacks. RaikouLover and I's suggested new MixMence also uses 4 attacks, but the difference is that it uses the more powerful Earthquake over Brick Break, and Outrage not only outdamages Crunch on Cresselia and Dusknoir, but it also allows Salamence to do significant damage to everything else. Crunch does not have this ability if it isn't hitting SE.
-Give up the fire attack, and now you find yourself being walled by the likes of Metagross and Skarmory.
-The comparisons between MixNite and MixMence are inevitable, but instead of Superpower vs Crunch being the distinguishing factor, I feel that the real difference is Thunderbolt vs. the ability to sweep on its own.
Raj
CAP Playtesting Expert
I've been doing alot of Mence experimentation, particularly with this set:
Lonely @ Life Orb
6 HP/252 Att/176 Sp/76 Sp Att
~Dragon Dance
~Outrage
~Fire Blast
~Aqua Tail
First off, this gives Mence 332 HP, 405 Att, 280 Speed, and 275 Sp Att. Dragon Dance, Outrage, and Fire Blast should not really need explanation; what does is Aqua Tail. Aqua Tail > Earthquake/Stone Edge. Aqua Tail hits harder on the like of 4x weak to Water Pokemon (like Rhyperior), hits Bronzong and puts in range of Fire Blast kill. Water/Fire is essentially giving you more coverage than Ground/Fire. Aqua Tail also deals with Heatran, too.
Lonely @ Life Orb
6 HP/252 Att/176 Sp/76 Sp Att
~Dragon Dance
~Outrage
~Fire Blast
~Aqua Tail
First off, this gives Mence 332 HP, 405 Att, 280 Speed, and 275 Sp Att. Dragon Dance, Outrage, and Fire Blast should not really need explanation; what does is Aqua Tail. Aqua Tail > Earthquake/Stone Edge. Aqua Tail hits harder on the like of 4x weak to Water Pokemon (like Rhyperior), hits Bronzong and puts in range of Fire Blast kill. Water/Fire is essentially giving you more coverage than Ground/Fire. Aqua Tail also deals with Heatran, too.
Another thing to add to IcyMan's post is you have to take a look at the spread too. The old mixmence used:
120 Atk / 136 Speed / 252 SpAtk and a special attack boosting nature giving:
336 Atk / 270 Speed / 350 SpAtk... sounds good.
My spread is:
80 Atk / 176 Speed / 252 Sp Atk, Naive
Yields:
326 Atk / 308 Speed / 319 Sp Atk
The extra speed really makes this set effective, as you now outspeed most other Salamences, the resurgences of Flygon, all Lucario (even the cocky Jolly Ice Punch ones), Porygon-Z, Roserade, Zapdos sitting at enough speed for Mamoswine, and the vast majority of the other base 100s such as Celebi and Jirachi. The speed is what helps accomplish what IcyMan is describing, which also differentiates itself from Dragonite.
Sure, this is a hit and run pokemon, but Salamence gets a whole new dimension with the added speed AND outrage, as it can Draco Meteor the fuck out of something, than Outrage / Earthquake the next pokemon without even having to switch out. The current mixmence is pretty much doomed after Draco.
The difference between Focus Blast being a must on Gengar is several factors: 1) it needs it for the Ghost / Fighting type coverage, 2) It has no other good special fighting moves other than the weak HP Fighting 3) So Tyranitar doesn't pursuit the shit out of it. 4) Can help it beat Blissey with some luck. Gengar essentially NEEDS Focus Blast... It is a necessary evil. Salamence, however, does NOT need Hydro Pump, as it has Earthquake with superior accuracy and type coverage that can do the same job.
120 Atk / 136 Speed / 252 SpAtk and a special attack boosting nature giving:
336 Atk / 270 Speed / 350 SpAtk... sounds good.
My spread is:
80 Atk / 176 Speed / 252 Sp Atk, Naive
Yields:
326 Atk / 308 Speed / 319 Sp Atk
The extra speed really makes this set effective, as you now outspeed most other Salamences, the resurgences of Flygon, all Lucario (even the cocky Jolly Ice Punch ones), Porygon-Z, Roserade, Zapdos sitting at enough speed for Mamoswine, and the vast majority of the other base 100s such as Celebi and Jirachi. The speed is what helps accomplish what IcyMan is describing, which also differentiates itself from Dragonite.
Sure, this is a hit and run pokemon, but Salamence gets a whole new dimension with the added speed AND outrage, as it can Draco Meteor the fuck out of something, than Outrage / Earthquake the next pokemon without even having to switch out. The current mixmence is pretty much doomed after Draco.
Hydro Pump is a shitty option IMO. Its not only inaccurate, but it only adds type coverage for one pokemon, and doesn't even guarentee the kill, regardless of its 80% accuracy. Earthquake is hitting Tentacruel, Empoleon AND Heatran for necessary KOs with such a small investment (8 attack EVs... seriously...)
The difference between Focus Blast being a must on Gengar is several factors: 1) it needs it for the Ghost / Fighting type coverage, 2) It has no other good special fighting moves other than the weak HP Fighting 3) So Tyranitar doesn't pursuit the shit out of it. 4) Can help it beat Blissey with some luck. Gengar essentially NEEDS Focus Blast... It is a necessary evil. Salamence, however, does NOT need Hydro Pump, as it has Earthquake with superior accuracy and type coverage that can do the same job.
EQ is a better option on every Salamence except the specs version, where HP Ground is the best choice. Hydro Pump is not a good move unless you have STAB on it, and even then its not very reliable. I mean, Salamence is one of the few pokemon that could pull off a Hydro Pump set (including Water-types), but that doesn't necessarily make it a good move. I personally thought Hydro Pump was for specially defensive Tyranitars, where it would likely be most useful (although once again the set in question is the Dragon Dancer, right? EQ is obviously the better option...)
K posting all the sets I have tested EXTENSIVELY since platinum was implemented
if you think I am wrong, you can constructively criticize but note I will be severely skeptical as I guarantee no one has tested Salamence as extensively as I have.
no format to this, just set, some random comments, some other options
Great Sage can take care of incorporating whatever he wants I am getting sick of shit here anyway
(directly exported from shoddy, also note shoddy has the evs for Speed marked as "spd" so don't get confused lol)
ScarfMence (Salamence) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 40 Atk/252 Spd/216 SAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Earthquake
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Outrage
---
you'll note +Speed on Scarf...yea. 2 reasons: checking DD Mences, and this annoying fad of running Lucarios and Porygon-Z as +Speed natures too (I was actually burned by Luke once and PZ twice)
wasn't a fan at all of Crunch / Stone Edge / Aqua Tail as I prefered to Draco Meteor incoming Gyarados / Cresselia / Hippowdon instead of predicting and not doing too much
as for EVs, they were theorymonned initially and surprisingly did not change, ever lol
310 SpAtk always beats 252 HP / o SpDef Gyarados switching into Stealth Rock (50% minimum the first time, you're faster, 25% minimum the second time), the speed was for checking other Mence (though I suggest Mence runs +Speed...no one does so >_>) and random scarfers, 316 Attack allows Mence to usually 2hko 252 hp / 252 def bold blissey after stealth rock (68%)
anyway, main point of Scarf Mence is check pokemon and give you a fast, hard hitting guy from both sides of the spectrum that is only outspeed by +Speed Deoxys, Choice Scarf Dugtrio / Alakazam / Azelf and +Speed Choice Scarf Gengar, with the only things really worrying you are the Deoxys-S and Gengar
DD Bulky Roost Mence (Salamence) (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 56 HP/124 Atk/96 Spd/232 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Roost
---
My fucking favorite set ever. I wanted to be a cunt and not reveal it...but whatever lol. People have already realized how awesome this can be, but the platinum version only improves on it. Outrage + Lum Berry take care of three issues the other version had:
1.) Power 2.) Life Orb's annoying recoil 3.) Pokemon like Celebi / Cresselia / Blissey ruining your day with Thunder Wave
By power, I mean power remains without Life Orb, so 1 and 2 are connected obviously.
Anyway, obviously you run this with Magnezone or skarm / forry / bronzong lures
so evs come out to 345 HP / 370 Atk / 260 Speed / 253 SpDef
you'll notice straight off that this is less bulky than the old version, this is because it is now more capable of beating Cresselia / Celebi / bulky waters due to outrage and the evs pumped into attack
for example, 1 dd outrage will 2hko 252 hp / 252 def bold cresselia on average after stealth rock, and cresselia won't ohko you with ice beam and it will be helpless if it thunder waves your lum berry
as for this thing's special bulk...it is never ohkoed by a timid heatran's hp ice (meaning Gengar and outspeeding you with scarf hp ice will never ohko you either ;P) this also again always survives a 269 spatk ice beam, but I'm not sure how relevant that is in a non garchomp metagame, but the hp ice 359 spatk stuff is very useful anyway
it's imperative to note this thing's speed...260...do NOT be clever and try and take on heracross / porygon-z with this unless you are sure they aren't scarfed. 260 let's it always outspeed Skymin, which is pretty significant since it ohkos
this thing is meant to be a special check and a lure for beating salamence's common checks, and it is EXTREMELY effective at doing so
there are plenty of alternate ev spreads...if the cresselia / celebi thunder wavers arent a huge issue and you are confident you will nail them with at least some residual damage, you can always sacrifice attack all the way down to 347 (which is the point that will allow you to always 2hko cresselia with stealth rock and sand in play) and throw the rest into HP / SpDef
MixMence (Salamence) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 84 Atk/208 Spd/216 SAtk
Mild nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Outrage / Roost
---
ALRIGHT. Seems to be an issue here...Aqua Tail / Brick Break / Crunch / Stone Edge were so mediocre for me on this thing it wasn't even funny. Outrage does more to Cresselia / Blissey than either Brick Break or Crunch, and unlike the other two, has a high chance to ko them on the switch with Draco Meteor + Stealth Rock
I used to always run Roost on Mence but I have found Earthquake + Outrage to be very important, since Heatran / Metagross are literally everywhere (and yes, some do switch into you expecting the specs set), but if you HAD to substitute one my experience says remove OUtrage for it.
Speed is to always outspeed Gyarados before the Dragon Dance, which is actually more important than you might give credit for. I just went the standard 216 for the special attack and saw no reason to change it, so if someone wants to give some input there that would be nice
BandMence (Salamence) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 Atk/252 Spd/8 SAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Outrage
- Fire Blast
- Aqua Tail
- Earthquake / Stone Edge / Dragon Claw
---
Alright! Choice Band Mence is VERY fun and VERY interesting. It actually runs Aqua Tail and effectively at that!
K, brief on the EVs first. 258 Special Attack allows you to always 2hko 252 hp / 0 spdef celebi with stealth rock, and the Speed is maxed just to get Lucario / Roserade / Electivire and other Salamence that try to be cute.
Aqua Tail helps you 2hko Hippowdon (without getting locked into Outrage) / Gliscor on the switch, both of which are 2hkoed the majority of the time with Stealth Rock. It's the preferred move over Stone Edge / Crunch because Outrage will 2hko all Zapdos / Gyarados (some will be ohkoed with SR) without the accuracy issue and you would rather outrage Cresselia / Dusknoir / Celebi
Aqua Tail really finds its advantage in giving a nice "safety" (yes, even in spite of its 90% accuracy) move for "predicting" heatran. Generally you Earthquaked and feared the Gyarados / Salamence / Zapdos / Togekiss / Gliscor switching in and setting up on you. Granted, you won't be doing a lot to Gyarados or Salamence, but it is damage that still does around 18% to non defensive versions of both, which is very much advantageous if they are repeatedly switching into Stealth rock.
Earthquake remains there to ohko Tyranitar / deal with Metagross (though Fire Blast does that as well). This can be replaced with Stone Edge if you Zapdos is a huge concern and you REALLY want to ohko it. If Earthquake or Stone Edge aren't issues and Outrage's side effect is sometimes too irritating, you can go with Dragon Claw as well.
Offensive DD Mence (Salamence) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 232 Atk/252 Spd/24 SAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Outrage
---
Yep, no max attack for the offensive version. Max Speed and some special attack in order to always ohko 252 / 0 spdef skarm with fire blast
max speed is so helpful on this guy I don't know why people don't run it. The extra power from adamant / lonely really isn't transforming some 2hkos into magical ohkos and the speed helps mence beat a lot of things trying to act cute
SpecsMence (Salamence) (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 8 Atk/252 Spd/248 SAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Earthquake
---
yea, earthquake > Hydro Pump / HP Ground because it lets Salamence 1hko / 2hko / 2hko common versions of the pokemon that you will use a ground attack on, Heatran / Tentacruel / Empoleon.
Again, I run Hasty for +Speed because I consider that extra speed to be very useful, but you can run Mild as well. 8 EVs in Attack allow Salamence to ohko that 252 hp / 200 spdef heatran, and they allow it to 2hko special defensive versions of empoleon / tentacruel
Salamence (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP/160 Def/96 Spd
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Roost
---
my second favorite salamence set ever, though this has also changed quite a bit in platinum, and its purpose has further shifted from the special version.
you'll notice 260 speed, before platinum i recommended 280 speed on this to counter lucario better, but with ice punch rampant, there is little point, and the 270 marker for heracross really isnt *that* necessary, but you can certainly reach it if you want, anyway, 260 speed lets you outspeed skymin after a DD, so its good for me (note, you can still run 280 again for timid scarftrans, but thats up to you)
anyway, you'll notice life orb gone...and with no outrage to boot! Listen, this thing is meant to wall physically guys and hit hard occasionally, not accidently get stuck with outrage. It's purpose doesn't let it get away with that side effect like the special version does. Don't run outrage on this thing. 394 HP 259 defense + intimidate really lets you switch into many physical threats and barely feel the repurcussions.
ALRIGHT. i might edit this in later for readability purposes lol but that is the gist of alot of how salamence has changed.
if you think I am wrong, you can constructively criticize but note I will be severely skeptical as I guarantee no one has tested Salamence as extensively as I have.
no format to this, just set, some random comments, some other options
Great Sage can take care of incorporating whatever he wants I am getting sick of shit here anyway
(directly exported from shoddy, also note shoddy has the evs for Speed marked as "spd" so don't get confused lol)
ScarfMence (Salamence) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 40 Atk/252 Spd/216 SAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Earthquake
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Outrage
---
you'll note +Speed on Scarf...yea. 2 reasons: checking DD Mences, and this annoying fad of running Lucarios and Porygon-Z as +Speed natures too (I was actually burned by Luke once and PZ twice)
wasn't a fan at all of Crunch / Stone Edge / Aqua Tail as I prefered to Draco Meteor incoming Gyarados / Cresselia / Hippowdon instead of predicting and not doing too much
as for EVs, they were theorymonned initially and surprisingly did not change, ever lol
310 SpAtk always beats 252 HP / o SpDef Gyarados switching into Stealth Rock (50% minimum the first time, you're faster, 25% minimum the second time), the speed was for checking other Mence (though I suggest Mence runs +Speed...no one does so >_>) and random scarfers, 316 Attack allows Mence to usually 2hko 252 hp / 252 def bold blissey after stealth rock (68%)
anyway, main point of Scarf Mence is check pokemon and give you a fast, hard hitting guy from both sides of the spectrum that is only outspeed by +Speed Deoxys, Choice Scarf Dugtrio / Alakazam / Azelf and +Speed Choice Scarf Gengar, with the only things really worrying you are the Deoxys-S and Gengar
DD Bulky Roost Mence (Salamence) (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 56 HP/124 Atk/96 Spd/232 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Roost
---
My fucking favorite set ever. I wanted to be a cunt and not reveal it...but whatever lol. People have already realized how awesome this can be, but the platinum version only improves on it. Outrage + Lum Berry take care of three issues the other version had:
1.) Power 2.) Life Orb's annoying recoil 3.) Pokemon like Celebi / Cresselia / Blissey ruining your day with Thunder Wave
By power, I mean power remains without Life Orb, so 1 and 2 are connected obviously.
Anyway, obviously you run this with Magnezone or skarm / forry / bronzong lures
so evs come out to 345 HP / 370 Atk / 260 Speed / 253 SpDef
you'll notice straight off that this is less bulky than the old version, this is because it is now more capable of beating Cresselia / Celebi / bulky waters due to outrage and the evs pumped into attack
for example, 1 dd outrage will 2hko 252 hp / 252 def bold cresselia on average after stealth rock, and cresselia won't ohko you with ice beam and it will be helpless if it thunder waves your lum berry
as for this thing's special bulk...it is never ohkoed by a timid heatran's hp ice (meaning Gengar and outspeeding you with scarf hp ice will never ohko you either ;P) this also again always survives a 269 spatk ice beam, but I'm not sure how relevant that is in a non garchomp metagame, but the hp ice 359 spatk stuff is very useful anyway
it's imperative to note this thing's speed...260...do NOT be clever and try and take on heracross / porygon-z with this unless you are sure they aren't scarfed. 260 let's it always outspeed Skymin, which is pretty significant since it ohkos
this thing is meant to be a special check and a lure for beating salamence's common checks, and it is EXTREMELY effective at doing so
there are plenty of alternate ev spreads...if the cresselia / celebi thunder wavers arent a huge issue and you are confident you will nail them with at least some residual damage, you can always sacrifice attack all the way down to 347 (which is the point that will allow you to always 2hko cresselia with stealth rock and sand in play) and throw the rest into HP / SpDef
MixMence (Salamence) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 84 Atk/208 Spd/216 SAtk
Mild nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Outrage / Roost
---
ALRIGHT. Seems to be an issue here...Aqua Tail / Brick Break / Crunch / Stone Edge were so mediocre for me on this thing it wasn't even funny. Outrage does more to Cresselia / Blissey than either Brick Break or Crunch, and unlike the other two, has a high chance to ko them on the switch with Draco Meteor + Stealth Rock
I used to always run Roost on Mence but I have found Earthquake + Outrage to be very important, since Heatran / Metagross are literally everywhere (and yes, some do switch into you expecting the specs set), but if you HAD to substitute one my experience says remove OUtrage for it.
Speed is to always outspeed Gyarados before the Dragon Dance, which is actually more important than you might give credit for. I just went the standard 216 for the special attack and saw no reason to change it, so if someone wants to give some input there that would be nice
BandMence (Salamence) (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 Atk/252 Spd/8 SAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Outrage
- Fire Blast
- Aqua Tail
- Earthquake / Stone Edge / Dragon Claw
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Alright! Choice Band Mence is VERY fun and VERY interesting. It actually runs Aqua Tail and effectively at that!
K, brief on the EVs first. 258 Special Attack allows you to always 2hko 252 hp / 0 spdef celebi with stealth rock, and the Speed is maxed just to get Lucario / Roserade / Electivire and other Salamence that try to be cute.
Aqua Tail helps you 2hko Hippowdon (without getting locked into Outrage) / Gliscor on the switch, both of which are 2hkoed the majority of the time with Stealth Rock. It's the preferred move over Stone Edge / Crunch because Outrage will 2hko all Zapdos / Gyarados (some will be ohkoed with SR) without the accuracy issue and you would rather outrage Cresselia / Dusknoir / Celebi
Aqua Tail really finds its advantage in giving a nice "safety" (yes, even in spite of its 90% accuracy) move for "predicting" heatran. Generally you Earthquaked and feared the Gyarados / Salamence / Zapdos / Togekiss / Gliscor switching in and setting up on you. Granted, you won't be doing a lot to Gyarados or Salamence, but it is damage that still does around 18% to non defensive versions of both, which is very much advantageous if they are repeatedly switching into Stealth rock.
Earthquake remains there to ohko Tyranitar / deal with Metagross (though Fire Blast does that as well). This can be replaced with Stone Edge if you Zapdos is a huge concern and you REALLY want to ohko it. If Earthquake or Stone Edge aren't issues and Outrage's side effect is sometimes too irritating, you can go with Dragon Claw as well.
Offensive DD Mence (Salamence) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 232 Atk/252 Spd/24 SAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Outrage
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Yep, no max attack for the offensive version. Max Speed and some special attack in order to always ohko 252 / 0 spdef skarm with fire blast
max speed is so helpful on this guy I don't know why people don't run it. The extra power from adamant / lonely really isn't transforming some 2hkos into magical ohkos and the speed helps mence beat a lot of things trying to act cute
SpecsMence (Salamence) (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 8 Atk/252 Spd/248 SAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Earthquake
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yea, earthquake > Hydro Pump / HP Ground because it lets Salamence 1hko / 2hko / 2hko common versions of the pokemon that you will use a ground attack on, Heatran / Tentacruel / Empoleon.
Again, I run Hasty for +Speed because I consider that extra speed to be very useful, but you can run Mild as well. 8 EVs in Attack allow Salamence to ohko that 252 hp / 200 spdef heatran, and they allow it to 2hko special defensive versions of empoleon / tentacruel
Salamence (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP/160 Def/96 Spd
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Roost
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my second favorite salamence set ever, though this has also changed quite a bit in platinum, and its purpose has further shifted from the special version.
you'll notice 260 speed, before platinum i recommended 280 speed on this to counter lucario better, but with ice punch rampant, there is little point, and the 270 marker for heracross really isnt *that* necessary, but you can certainly reach it if you want, anyway, 260 speed lets you outspeed skymin after a DD, so its good for me (note, you can still run 280 again for timid scarftrans, but thats up to you)
anyway, you'll notice life orb gone...and with no outrage to boot! Listen, this thing is meant to wall physically guys and hit hard occasionally, not accidently get stuck with outrage. It's purpose doesn't let it get away with that side effect like the special version does. Don't run outrage on this thing. 394 HP 259 defense + intimidate really lets you switch into many physical threats and barely feel the repurcussions.
ALRIGHT. i might edit this in later for readability purposes lol but that is the gist of alot of how salamence has changed.
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