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np: UU - Here It Goes Again
- Thread starter Caelum
- Start date
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Nominating Roserade under what characteristic?
Offensive?
Scarf - Specs - LO
All can be stopped by almost always by Regice, Registeel, Chansey, and occasionally Roserade; defensively speaking. Offensively, anything that outruns it is pretty much a threat to it.
Support?
Spikes are easy to get up, true, but since Roserade is no longer hitting as hard, it has more counters... sort of.
Now that I think of it. Froslass needs retesting. It only got voted to BL because people were to lazy to deal with it.
Offensive?
Scarf - Specs - LO
All can be stopped by almost always by Regice, Registeel, Chansey, and occasionally Roserade; defensively speaking. Offensively, anything that outruns it is pretty much a threat to it.
Support?
Spikes are easy to get up, true, but since Roserade is no longer hitting as hard, it has more counters... sort of.
Now that I think of it. Froslass needs retesting. It only got voted to BL because people were to lazy to deal with it.
It can only have 4 moves.
There's also the fact that Seed Flare could potentially lower Chansey's Special Defense so it can no longer wall Shaymin.
God no, please. Are you serious? You think stall is bad now? Just wait until stall has not only a WAY better option to get spikes on the field but instant double ghost to stop everyone's Foresight Hitmontop.
If you want stall to die, nom Chansey, people. Any other special wall is much easier to deal with. Registeel lacks reliable recovery making it much easier to wear down, and Umbreon lacks T-wave meaning that tons of offensive pokes get much safer switches against it. If Chansey goes away stall will become much more vulnerable to things like NP Croak, NP Houndoom and LO Moltres.
Also, Chansey is one of the few pure stall pokes used on all these identical stall teams. Hitmontop, Milotic, Roserade, Altaria, all can be used offensively aswell, whereas Chansey is basically a pure stall Pokemon, so removing it will do little to hamper offense. If not Chansey, then Spiritomb would be a good choice aswell.
All I can say is I strongly disapprove of just picking and choosing Pokemon to ban in order to achieve a desired metagame. It won't end well.
Don't you mean objective? It hurts my head when I try to think how anyone can possibly try and fail to be subjective.
Apparently I am slow today. Yes ~_~
If this is really what you think the suspect tests are then I suggest that you wake up and pay attention. If you don't think the suspects are broken, say that and not "we are randomly picking pokemon to ban", since that is blatantly false. Not everyone that disagrees with you is misguided.
Pursuit, Hitmontop, Ambipom, Taunt, Drapion, Levitators, Fliers, SR, Spikes, and hell while not all these are 100% reliable but there are ways around Double Ghost + Spikes.
Personally, I hate stall, but this is no where near as bad as old uu's ....
Chansey - Rotom - Froslass - Blah Blah Blah
due to more options of breaking the stalling team open.
You can make perfectly good stall without Chansey. I had some rather nice Trick Room vs Stall matches against panamaxis, the current #1 on the ladder, who didn't use a Chansey.
In fact, if we were to ban any Stall pokemon, it would probably be Roserade, as it is the most difficult to replace. Milotic banned? Use Slowbro or another bulky water; there's a lot. Steelix/Registeel banned? use the other one. Spiritomb banned? there's always Rotom or Dusclops. Hitmontop banned? Claydol's a great spinner, and Blastoise can too. Chansey banned? Well, apparently it's not wholly necessary. But the only other Spikers are Omastar, Cloyster, Qwilfish, Glalie, and Cacturne. None of them have Roserade's reliable recovery, and they all have some rather nasty weaknesses.
That said, I don't think Roserade needs a ban. I just want Honchkrow and Shaymin back. That's all.
So, on that note, when do we need to meet the rating requirements by?
First, I think that the test ends in a couple of days, its been nearly a month.
And I would hate seeing Shaymin back in UU. It's too damn powerful, especially with Crobat looking more BL by the second.
Honchkrow, I haven't missed much. Was an annoying bastard to deal with, but I got by. I'm pretty neutral on it tight now.
Yeah I am really glad to see shaymin banned more than any other poke really; I don't find the other 2 pokes nearly as overpowered.
And one question; For suspect voting do we need to have the required rating and deviation at the moment the voting takes place, or simply have reached it at some point?
That's not too surprising. Chansey, like Blissey in OU, is a great wall but very predictable. People only use stall when they want to stay at the top of the leaderboard, but any good player is usually able to take advantage of stall teams because of that. It's cool to see panamaxis is anti-metagaming the anti-metagamers. There are plenty of great special walls in UU because all of the good Special Atkers except Yanmega are OU already. Registeel, Altaria, Umbreon, Spiritomb, Drapion, etc, are all great options for special tanking that work very well in place of Chansey, who is essentially a free switchin for any Fighting-type.
We don't ban things just to change the metagame, we ban them because they are broken. IMO, Roserade doesn't do anything to break the metagame because of how easy it is to wall, combined with its horrible Defense. With Shaymin, Honchkrow and Crobat gone, we'll be able to see if Roserade really is that good!
Umm, he said "i disapprove of just picking and choosing (aka randomly) pokemon to ban" and you said "smogon has been doing this from the start", as if you were suggesting that we are just picking and choosing pokemon to ban for no reason. If it just came out differently than you intended, then w/e sorry lets not derail the thread.
Nominate Roserade? Not having Roserade, Shaymin and the removal of Raikou means that those bulky waters will never die. Milotic and Slowbro in particular are checked by Roserade and if Roserade leaves, CM Slowbro is going to rule the metagame (I'm pretty sure).
Question: How are we going to get those BL people to come to UU status again? I'm not familiar with the process. I really miss Froslass because this metagame lacks some really good spikers.
If you'll notice, I said later in my post that we shouldn't ban Roserade, and that's exactly why. It's not really broken, and, TBH, neither is stall. It's perfectly beatable, provided you're willing to take a risk to gain the initiative.
Also, I wouldn't say Shaymin and Honchkrow's ban is a foregone conclusion quite yet, though I will admit I haven't seen a whole lot of support for their return in this topic.
Is it really that easy to wall? If you lack Registeel or Chansey there's basically zero safe switch-ins to the LO set, Sludge Bomb or Leaf Storm will do big damage on most anything else......and if it has HP Ground and Sleep Powder it can easily beat Registeel anyway.
I will most definitely be voting Shaymin to BL, especially since as someone already said, I doubt that Crobat will be coming back to help check it again. Honchkrow I would not mind seeing in UU again, on the basis that it is not that much better than Absol anyway, who got exactly zero BL nominations.
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