Your pets are more important than your kids?

[WaterBomb]

Pets and Children both have their advantages and disadvantages. People who cite the less-than-perfect aspects of children (such as dependency, teenage rebellion, money-sucking, etc) as reasons to not have children, are ignorant and selfish. The whole point of having children is to raise and cultivate them into decent human beings. To expect that you're not going to go through any "growing pains" along the way is simply naive. If kids were easy, it'd be boring. What would be the point if it weren't a challenge? If you think your kid's never gonna say "I hate you dad/mom" sometime between the ages of 13 and 18, you're dreaming. The problems that happen with children are not always a result of bad parenting. Some of this is just because of today's culture, or the natural volatility of an adolescent's mind. On the flip side, I think there has been somewhat of a deterioration in parenting and children today. Kids are dumber, less respectful, fatter, and more violent on average than they used to be. I would agree with the argument that this is due to the increase in both parents working full-time jobs, and concentrating on their careers more than raising their children.

On the pet side, I think the biggest advantage of pets is that they ARE less complicated than children. Some people say kids are better because they are capable of more, but honestly I think the simplicity of a pet's mind is very desirable. My cat and I are very close. She is one of the most important things in my life. When the other cat or the dog are acting aggressive toward me, Natasha will run up and stand between us. 8 AM rolls around and I'm still in bed, Natasha will run in and wake me up. When I am feeling sad, even if I am not expressing it, she will be right there purring to cheer me up. You will never be able to convince me that pets are not a blessing and a wonderful addition to a family

 

[Surgo]

Pets and Children both have their advantages and disadvantages. People who cite the less-than-perfect aspects of children (such as dependency, teenage rebellion, money-sucking, etc) as reasons to not have children, are ignorant and selfish.

I'll readily admit it's selfish (and why does that even matter?), but what's so ignorant about it? I've made a decision that was both logical and rational to not have children, and did it with knowing all the facts. How could citing just about anything true as a reason to not have children be 'ignorant'? That's the complete opposite of ignorance. (I, personally, see very few advantages to children.)

edit: Also what Mormoopid said below me is totally true, though it doesn't particularly apply to me personally.

Kids are dumber, less respectful, fatter, and more violent on average than they used to be.

Source or it didn't happen.

 

[Morm]

Waterbomb, it's not selfish to make the observation that a 6 month old baby is dead without having someone attend to it all the time. Selfishness when having kids is when you have more kids than you can really afford or if you reproduce when you have a high % chance of the kid being born with HIV or Huntingtons or something. You're giving them a burden to deal with just so you can have your cute baby.

 

[WaterBomb]

I was being a bit harsh when I used the words "ignorant" and "selfish". Those are opinion words, and by no means a representation of any fact or truth. I DISAGREE with the decision to not have kids based on those reasons, but I respect any decision that is made coherently and rationally (as yours has).

As for needing a source to qualify my statement about kids being dumber, less respectful, and more violent, I'm not sure why you even need me to show you one. If you insist, try comparing Crime Rates among minors and average GPA in school to those of 20 years ago. As for kids being less respectful, you don't need a source to tell you what you observe every day in public and from personal experience (I am a teacher).

 

[Syberia]

Maybe they are less respectful because they are automatically assumed to be "ignorant, dumb, and violent." I, for one, find it very hard to show respect to anyone who does not show me the same because of flawed generalizations.

 

[akuchi]

Both too much responsibility. I looked after my cat for two weeks recently and by day three she was drinking from puddles and eating off my plate. She shifted a bit of the weight though, the fat bastard she is.
I'd like to foster one day, that way I can have the joy of raising kids then give them back when they piss me off too much. Irresponsible and selfish? Absolutely. Don't really want a life partner either, though I seem to have found one.
But my life is my own and god help me I do not want to spend it with some squalling brat who demands constant food and attention - or a child.

 

[Syberia]

I'd like to foster one day, that way I can have the joy of raising kids then give them back when they piss me off too much. Irresponsible and selfish? Absolutely.

Irresponsible parents should not raise children for any amount of time. If you don't want to deal with them, fine, no one said you have to. Raising children, no matter who the actually belong to, is a commitment you should not enter into unless you're willing to take the good along with the bad.

A living, breathing human being is not just some piece of property or "toy" to be used to bring you pleasure until you don't want it anymore. I sincerely hope any agency who tries to find families to foster children deems you unfit to be a mother, for their own protection.

 

[Surgo]

If you insist, try comparing Crime Rates among minors and average GPA in school to those of 20 years ago.

I have no idea where to find a source for crime rates, but I just looked for a statistical source on GPA averages in America and it ironically shows me the exact opposite of what you just told me sources would indicate.

As for kids being less respectful, you don't need a source to tell you what you observe every day in public and from personal experience (I am a teacher).

Are you serious? If so, lol. You -do- need a source. Personal experience normally doesn't mean much, but in your case it means less than nothing because you don't have a sample from 20 years ago to test it against. You were a kid 20 years ago.

 

[Morm]

A living, breathing human being is not just some piece of property or "toy" to be used to bring you pleasure until you don't want it anymore. I sincerely hope any agency who tries to find families to foster children deems you unfit to be a mother, for their own protection.

You had better be one of the people that thinks that way about animals too.

 

[Syberia]

Of course I hate the concept of people who abandon their pets because they don't want to take care of them anymore. But I hope you're not saying that kids and animals are the same thing, because surely you have more intelligence than that.

 

[Morm]

Of course I hate the concept of people who abandon their pets because they don't want to take care of them anymore. But I hope you're not saying that kids and animals are the same thing, because surely you have more intelligence than that.

Of course they aren't the same thing. I treat my cat how I would treat my kids, food dish on the floor and all (just kidding). But I hold him to a standard and treat him fairly- if he is a prick to me, I'll be a prick to him. He caught on fast, I fail to see how treating a child fairly is a bad thing. I plan on holding my kids accountable for anything they do at a very early age, lest they have to clean the whole bathroom after I eat a burrito.

 

[Syberia]

That doesn't mean using them strictly to give you pleasure and dumping them on someone else on a whim, as akuchi seems to be advocating.

 

[Morm]

That doesn't mean using them strictly to give you pleasure and dumping them on someone else on a whim, as akuchi seems to be advocating.

I don't think she's doing that at all. She said she'd be interested in fostering, which is a program that isn't favorable for the kids but it is better than nothing. She's admitting that it is selfish, but at least she's being selfish in the most responsible way by opting to participate in the program rather than squeezing a few kids out herself. I think what she meant was "if it didn't work out, I'd send them back", which is exactly what the foster program does. She was probably only wording it that way to be a little more chippy and cavalier in appearance than she actually is.

 

[Syberia]

Even if you're going to foster a kid, you should keep it until they come of age. I don't have specifics, but I'm sure there's plenty of research about what kind of psychological damage tossing a kid around between several different sets of parents does to them. If I were to raise a foster child, I would treat it exactly as I would one of my own. Which does not entail handing it off to someone else if it "pisses me off."

 

[Morm]

Even if you're going to foster a kid, you should keep it until they come of age.

That really depends on if the kid wants to be a fucker or if he wants to cooperate, doesn't it?

I don't have specifics, but I'm sure there's plenty of research about what kind of psychological damage tossing a kid around between several different sets of parents does to them.

Prove it

If I were to raise a foster child, I would treat it exactly as I would one of my own. Which does not entail handing it off to someone else if it "pisses me off."

And I'll just use the copout arguement of "You can't know until you try it", since someone was so kind as to use that one on me earlier in this thread. It is purely speculation on your part though.

 

[umbarsc]

I think Syberia is talking about this in particular:

that way I can have the joy of raising kids then give them back when they piss me off too much

Can you imagine being a foster child who has to go to different homes every time a parent doesn't feel like being a parent anymore?

Prove it

Why? I think it's pretty obvious.

 

[Syberia]

That really depends on if the kid wants to be a fucker or if he wants to cooperate, doesn't it?

No, it doesn't. If you make a commitment to raise a kid, you make a commitment to raise a kid. If you don't want to deal with the good as well as the bad, you don't take on the responsibility in the first place. Simple, no?

Prove it

I shouldn't have to, as you seem to believe it yourself already.

She said she'd be interested in fostering, which is a program that isn't favorable for the kids but it is better than nothing.

Being separated from your parents and tossed into a foreign environment once is bad enough, it only takes the tiniest amount of common sense to know that doing it again and again and again will be worse.

And I'll just use the copout arguement of "You can't know until you try it", since someone was so kind as to use that one on me earlier in this thread. It is purely speculation on your part though.

Jump off a bridge. You can't possibly know it'll be bad for you until you try it :)

 

[WaterBomb]

Yes, I WAS a kid 20 years ago. And I remember there being far less disrespect coming from my peers toward their teachers and parents. What kind of source would even measure the levels of disrespect from kids? There isn't one. I've been on both sides of this comparison, and I can tell you kids today are worse. Disagree? Fine. Perhaps it varies by region, or maybe since you're younger you don't remember what it was like in the previous generation. In either case, I can't believe I even tried to make that argument in a place like this, lol.

 

[Surgo]

Yeah, because I'm so much younger than you (all of 3 years) that I clearly just can't understand the previous generation!

What kind of source would even measure the levels of disrespect from kids? There isn't one.

This is the point where you realize that your entire argument about kids today being more disrespectful is subjective bullshit (and probably nothing more than a nostalgia filter, but that's not provable) because it is not, in fact, measured or even measurable.

 

[Lexite]

Both too much responsibility. I looked after my cat for two weeks recently and by day three she was drinking from puddles and eating off my plate. She shifted a bit of the weight though, the fat bastard she is.
I'd like to foster one day, that way I can have the joy of raising kids then give them back when they piss me off too much. Irresponsible and selfish? Absolutely. Don't really want a life partner either, though I seem to have found one.
But my life is my own and god help me I do not want to spend it with some squalling brat who demands constant food and attention - or a child.

You disgust me. I cannot believe you would say such things about a human being. And if a child turns out to be a brat it is your own fault. You would make a shitty parent if you were to actually do what you just said. A child isn’t a toy, a child isn’t a car that you get to test drive to decide if you like it or not. A child is a commitment. A child is a human being. If you are too dense, too discussing, too selfish to understand that then I feel so bad for any child that you will ever have. You clearly have no respect for life at all based on other things you have said. How can you have no respect? You disgust me.

Children go through enough emotional pain and suffering just being abandoned or orphaned once. Need proof? Go talk to someone that is adapted. Imagine the pain of the kid after they have been rejected a second or third time all because the adoptive parent didn’t want to deal with them anymore.

And maybe if you took proper care of your cat it wouldn’t be fat. Or just don’t own a cat if you cannot be responsible.

 

[Morm]

The foster program doesn't imply or say anything about longevity of your relationship with the child, just so you know, infact sometimes the kids are taken away from decent foster homes because a longer term solution has been found.

You can't tell me that 100% of the kids in 100% of the instances of jumping from foster home to foster home are screwed up, I wanted some stats on that.

Jump off a bridge. You can't possibly know it'll be bad for you until you try it :)

People do it all the time, it's called a bungee cord. Even that is situational if you want to be a douche about it, there are mitigating factors such as height of the bridge and depth of the river that might make it a fun experience verses a universally bad one.

 

[Vineon]

You can't tell me that 100% of the kids in 100% of the instances of jumping from foster home to foster home are screwed up, I wanted some stats on that.

Why would you need statistics on this?

That wasn't even implied. Who mentionned 100% and who cares if it isn't 100% of them; they should be allowed to make generalisations here. It should be obvious to anyone that a stable environment will generally be better than one thats always changing.

As such, someone like Anna shouldn't be allowed to foster, as was noted by Syberia/Lexite and I believe even she would agree with it, which she hints in her recognition of selfisness and irresponsability.

As for Surgo who apparently made the decision to not have a child at what, 20-21? I find it absolutely laughable unless "in a near future" or "as is currently planned" is what was meant. I have a problem with the word "decision" here I guess. A lot of people open up to having children as they get older but apparently, you find yourself impervious to change. You're green, don't even pretend "knowing all the facts" regarding something you've never experienced, especially not knowing how your life and perceptions will change within 10-15 years.

"I don't want a kid now and I doubt I'll be interested later" and planning your future from your current views works.

"I've made the decision at 20 knowing all the facts to not have kids" does not.

 

[ivar]

It's called "Mow the fucking lawn again...but this time, leave it longer!"

How can anyone know if they will like or want an experience before they have it? So sure on your opinions at 15 are you?

You're right: one cannot be sure they will like an experience before they have it, but the tone of your post suggested a certain carelessness. It came off to me as a "I might as well give it a shot", instead of a "after careful deliberation, I believe that I want to have a child."

 

[WaterBomb]

Yeah, because I'm so much younger than you (all of 3 years) that I clearly just can't understand the previous generation!

This is the point where you realize that your entire argument about kids today being more disrespectful is subjective bullshit (and probably nothing more than a nostalgia filter, but that's not provable) because it is not, in fact, measured or even measurable.

You took everything I said in my initial post and decided to take personal offense to it. I think at this point you're just contradicting everything I say to try to make me look bad. Your argument is just as much "subjective bullshit" as mine is, so don't act all high and mighty. If my argument was nothing but subjective bullshit, the proper course would have been to ignore it. Instead, you decided you wanted to pick apart my whole post because you wanted to humiliate me to float your own ego. Grow up and go troll someone else's post.

EDIT: Of course, I just realized that I'm doing the exact same thing by even responding to you, so I'll not respond any more after this post. Have a pleasant day.

 

[Lexite]

You do realize that at this point he is in no position to actually consider having a child since he is most likely young and not financially ready to have a child. If that is the case, it is ok for him to show interest with certain carelessness since he clearly isn’t going to actually have a child for a while.