Sylveon [QC: 0/3]

definitely keep sdef first, it's the most consistent and generally useful. i've personally been utilizing it on a stall team with good results, and i'm sure many other people can vouch for its utility and overall excellency.
So this mean I should ditch the Bold nature spread, and shift it to a more Specially Defensive focus?

snip snip
Yeah I never really found Echoed Voice to be THAT useful, but I left it in as per recommendation; I'm not objected to moving it to OO. This would also mean the set won't have any slashes! :)

Also no to Dig, Sylveon shouldn't be using Physical Attacks... and Draining Kiss is too weak when Pixelate is available to buff Hyper Voice. If you reeeally want healing, then Wish is an option.
 
Despite being a poor choice, some people run Steel or Poison moves to target fairies. Dragon and Fighting-types, like Garchomp and Conkeldurr, are most notable.
why does this bullet point even exist lol, garchomp should never ever ever run those moves (doesn't even 2hko lol), and conk is slower and will get shit on regardless
 

Jukain

!_!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
just keep the cleric set first, i did not even realize it had a physically defensive spread. i like specially defensive, but it doesn't matter if the main set has a phys def spread to me.
 
Okay, I'm fine with Echoed Voice being in OO or whatever, but I also would like to see a Choice Scarf Sylveon set that has Echoed Voice as one of the main moves. I've personally been swept by it because I underestimated its power, and I and my friend have used it with good success. You can probably do something like:

Echoed Voice
Hyper Voice
Hidden Power Fire
Baton Pass / Heal Bell

Max SpA and Spe with a Timid nature, of course.
 

alexwolf

lurks in the shadows
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Don't add the Choice Scarf yet, we need to test it first, and i very much doubt its viability. Its slow as balls, easily revenge killed by priority, Talonflame, Greninja, Scarf Gensect, and more, and its main move needs to be used at least two times before it starts having any real power, which i don't get how it's gonna happen. Still wait before we test this a bit, because i may be missing something and it might turn out viable.
 
Okay I've made the following changes...

- I removed Echoed Voice from the main set and explained why it's a lesser option.
- Reworded and removed a lot of my bullet points, because I had a lot of irrelevancies.
- Mentioned a max Special Defense EV spread on the cleric set.
- Kept the set order the same.

The scarf set I won't add just yet, because I'm also a little skeptical of it. I'll go ahead and test it though. :)
 
Despite being a poor choice, some people run Steel or Poison moves to target fairies. Dragon and Fighting-types, like Garchomp, are most notable.
I don't think you fully understood my previous post. This entire bullet point has no reason to exist. It is totally irrelevant; Garchomp should not run poison or steel moves, ever. Poison jab/iron head are only 10 BP stronger than a STAB earthquake, and they completely fail to even 2hko Sylveon (assuming physically defensive).

Max Sp.Atk + Modest Nature to maximize wallbreaking potential, give her enough speed to outrun Tyranitar, and then the rest to HP.
The set has 16 speed EVs listed. Sylveon only needs 12 to outrun ttar.
 
Last edited:

alexwolf

lurks in the shadows
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Roar and Whirlwind screw up who gets healed by Wish -- Heatran and Skarmory are notable users.
Roar and WW don't just screw up who gets healed by Wish, they directly cut down Sylveon's recovery, as they bypass Protect. This makes Skarmory and Heatran two of the biggest threats to Sylveon, as they can easily switch into her and prevent her from healing. The best one can do is have trappers, such as Magnezone and Dugtrio, to take care of those two. Or you could pack very dangerous Pokemon that can use those two as set-up bait, to discourage them from switching in, such as Tail Glow Manaphy and Fire Blast SD Garchomp. Specially defensive Hippowdon also doesn't mind Hyper Voice and can phaze Sylveon at will, so it's another one of the best counters to Sylveon. Definitely mention those in checks and counters, and in the team options section, where you will suggest Pokemon to take care of them.

For the reason stated above (Heatran and Skarmory, two extremely common pokes, making Sylveon their bitch) i think that RestTalk Sylveon with Heal Bell + Moonblast should get at least a set details mention, if not main slashes on the set. Many teams rely on Sylveon to deal with many very threatening offensive Pokemon, such as Kyu-B, Dragonite, Lati@s, Conkeldurr, etc., and being unable to do this if the opponent has Heatran or Skarmory sucks and is way too unreliable. Missing out on Wish passing sucks, but RestTalk + Heal Bell is an extremely potent and reliable combination, not to mention that not all teams want Wish support.
 
Last edited:
Addressed the mistakes from 6feetunder's post.

Roar and WW don't just screw up who gets healed by Wish, they directly cut down Sylveon's recovery, as they bypass Protect. This makes Skarmory and Heatran two of the biggest threats to Sylveon, as they can easily switch into her and prevent her from healing. The best one can do is have trappers, such as Magnezone and Dugtrio, to take care of those two. Or you could pack very dangerous Pokemon that can use those two as set-up bait, to discourage them from switching in, such as Tail Glow Manaphy and Fire Blast SD Garchomp. Specially defensive Hippowdon also doesn't mind Hyper Voice and can phaze Sylveon at will, so it's another one of the best counters to Sylveon. Definitely mention those in checks and counters, and in the team options section, where you will suggest Pokemon to take care of them.

For the reason stated above (Heatran and Skarmory, two extremely common pokes, making Sylveon their bitch) i think that RestTalk Sylveon with Heal Bell + Moonblast should get at least a set details mention, if not main slashes on the set. Many teams rely on Sylveon to deal with many very threatening offensive Pokemon, such as Kyu-B, Dragonite, Lati@s, Conkeldurr, etc., and being unable to do this if the opponent has Heatran or Skarmory sucks and is way too unreliable. Missing out on Wish passing sucks, but RestTalk + Heal Bell is an extremely potent and reliable combination, not to mention that not all teams want Wish support.
Mentioned how they fuck up Sylveon's own recovery (I wasn't aware they bypass Protect!), and included Hippowdown.
I'll make mentions of trappers and a few set-up pokemon that can dissuade them from coming in.

As far as RestTalk goes, I honestly just read about it without ever trying it. I'll give it a whirl today in testing, but I have to ask why Moonblast > Hyper Voice on that particular set? Is it for the Special Attack drop?
 

Jukain

!_!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
I am positive he meant Hyper Voice but accidentally said Moonblast.

I talked to alex on IRC, and we've decided RestTalk should get a mention in the Moves section -- leave it at that.
 
I am positive he meant Hyper Voice but accidentally said Moonblast.

I talked to alex on IRC, and we've decided RestTalk should get a mention in the Moves section -- leave it at that.
Done! :)

Do I mention any specific checks/counters for each individual set, or will that be covered in the checks/counters section itself?
 
Last edited:
Why? It's so weak without a boost and you have Wish + Protect to heal you anyway. :s

And I made the slight EV adjustment, I meant to earlier but it's in now!
The reason is because Wish isn't always a good option. Wish + Protect can at times be grade A setup bait for lots of sweepers, and in situations where your health is low it's nice to have an alternative healing method that doesn't waste turns.
 
The reason is because Wish isn't always a good option. Wish + Protect can at times be grade A setup bait for lots of sweepers, and in situations where your health is low it's nice to have an alternative healing method that doesn't waste turns.
I think opting for a 50 BP attack over a 117 BP one (just for extra healing) is going to create even more setup opportunities, because healing yourself with your attack isn't stopping them from setting up anymore than Wish + Protect would.

More damage > More Healing for stopping set-up!

I'm not really convinced, and I've tried it before with meh results. :s
 

Jukain

!_!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
the one thing you have to emphasize: don't use heal bell when you don't absolutely have to!

for example, if your opponent hits one of your pokemon with toxic, that's not a cue to heal bell. you only have 8 pp; use them wisely.

don't try and stall out things that toxic you either because they will win.
 
Would Baton Pass be an option with Magnezone/Dugtrio? You could catch Steels on the switch and OHKO them--making Sylveon an excellent lure (and it's even better if you can pass a wish to them).
 

Jukain

!_!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
I wouldn't run Baton Pass. Sylveon would rather run a number of moves as it is, so Baton Pass doesn't really fit in.
 
I wouldn't run Baton Pass. Sylveon would rather run a number of moves as it is, so Baton Pass doesn't really fit in.
Not so much Baton Pass itself but as a combo with a trapper. Sylveon is bait for steels and I figured that you could catch a Ferrothorn or something with Magnezone (who also doubles as a bulky wish recipient).

EDIT: also wanted to mention the HP count hits an even number, increasing or decreasing it by one would reduce SR damage/increase the number of hazard switch-ins.
 

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
Baton Pass already constricts Sylveon's 4 MSS. Furthermore, Baton Pass can potentially pass nasty things such as a Speed drop from Sticky Web, an Attack drop from Intimidate, among other things. Sylveon is a cleric - not a sweeper unless it is using Specs. And even then - Steel-types will not always enjoy Pixilate Hyper (252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 187-221 (55.9 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery).
 
Baton Pass is in OO already, and like they said, there really isn't any room for it...

The one set you could feasibly run it on can already hit steels hard enough without dedicating a team slot to trapping. :)
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top