Sylveon [QC: 0/3]

[The Great Gastly]

don't ask Sylveon...


Overview
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Pros:

• Mono-fairy typing is excellent.
  
• Possesses many support options such as Wish, Heal Bell, and Baton Pass.
  
• Pixilate is unique, and it differentiates Sylveon from other cleric archetypes by granting her a powerful damaging move.
• She passes larger wishes than Florges, and hits much harder than Clefable; these two are often compared to Sylveon.
  
• It also makes for an absurdly powerful Specs set.
• Has a spot on dedicated Baton Pass teams.
• cutest most ruthless pokemon ever!!!

Cons:

• Many top threats in XY OU are steel-type, so it's harder for her to function with them lurking around.
  
• Best sets are fairly one dimensional; it's simple to determine what she's using based on team composition.
• Wish Passing is easy to outplay.
• Fairly slow.

Cleric
########
name: Cleric
move 1: Hyper Voice
move 2: Heal Bell / Calm Mind
move 3: Wish
move 4: Protect
ability: Pixilate
item: Leftovers
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 Spd
nature: Bold

Moves
========

• Hyper Voice > Moonblast for the mono-attacking STAB, due to Pixilate boosting it to 117 BP and hitting through substitutes.
• Heal Bell cures the team of status conditions, and is an excellent option because status moves, particularly Will-O-Wisp, are everywhere.
  
• Use this move sparingly, you only have 8 PP!
• Wish + Protect helps maintain both Sylveon and her teammates' HP levels.
• RestTalk > WishProtect can be a viable option for teams that don't need Wish support.
• CM can be used to give Sylveon more bite as she's doing her WishPassing duties.
• Can also lead to a sweep late-game if her checks/counters aren't present.

Set Details
========

• Leftovers is an obvious choice for a defensive pokemon.
  
• Bold Nature and Max HP / Def is used to patch up Sylveon's weaker defense stat, making her a very sturdy pokemon all around.
• A Calm Nature with Max HP / SDef can be used if you want to maximize her high base Sp.Def -- this compromises decent Defense, however.
• 12 Spd EVs to outrun Tyranitar.

Usage Tips
========

• This set should be used to keep bulkier teammates alive and status-free.
• Wish Pass properly. This means knowing when to switch or Protect after using Wish.
• With proper prediction, competent opponents can nab easy KO(s) while wasting your turn spent on Wish.
• Remember Sylveon's own HP! If there's an opportunity to execute Wish + Protect with little risk, do so regardless if it's predictable or not.
• Pure Fairy-typing is great as it gives her resistances to Dark, Bug, and Fighting as well as an immunity to Dragon.
• Take advantage of these resistances, as they give Sylveon an edge over other clerics.

Team Options
========

• She makes for an excellent check to dangerous Dragon and Fighting-types.
  
• Sylveon is at home on a stall team. Stall mainstays (such as Heatran) appreciate the Wish Support she provides.
• Having Heal Bell in tow means a dedicated status absorber becomes less important-- creating less stress on teambuilding.
• Sylveon can also fit into more bulky offensive / balanced teams, as they appreciate the roles this set can fill.
• Bulky attackers, such Mega Mawile or Landorus-T, appreciate being cured of crippling status and having Wish Support to keep them alive.
• Set-up attackers, such as Manaphy or Garchomp, can dissuade Heatran and Skarm from coming in and making Sylveon's life hectic.

Choice Specs
########
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Hyper Voice
move 2: Psyshock
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Hidden Power Ground / Echoed Voice
ability: Pixilate
item: Choice Specs
evs: 132 HP / 252 SAtk / 124 Spd
nature: Modest

Moves
========

• Hyper Voice is the main STAB move; it packs immense BP (after Pixilate's bonus) and ignores substitutes.
• Psyshock is the best option to deal noteworthy damage to relevant Poison-types like Mega Venusaur or Tentacruel.
• Shadow Ball hits the omnipresent Aegislash and gets near perfect coverage alongside her Fairy-STAB.
• HP Ground to smack Heartan -- a prominent threat that x4 resists Sylveon's STAB move -- still hits Aegislash for super effective damage as well.
• Echoed Voice lets Sylveon break through more defensive teams, punishes teams that can't pose an immediate threat to her.
• HP Fire > HP Ground can score a solid hit on x4 weak threats like Ferrothorn.
  
• Baton Pass > Echoed Voice scores the team free momentum against switch-ins.

Set Details
========

• Max Sp.Atk + Modest Nature to maximize wallbreaking potential.
• Enough speed to outrun M-Scizor, since she 2HKOs it, and then the rest to HP.
• Choice Specs is the only item option as it gives Sylveon the most amount of power needed for max damage potential.

Usage Tips
========

• Hyper Voice, Hyper Voice, HYPER VOICE.
• Very little repercussions for spamming Hyper Voice-- lots of resists are still dented.
• Baton Pass if you know they're going to switch, but can't predict what's coming in.
• Select the appropriate coverage move on a predicted switch-in, if necessary.

Team Options
========

• Ground-types are great options to help eliminate both Poison AND Steel-types.
• Sticky Web support lets Sylveon outrun a wider range of slower pokemon.
• Bisharp resists both of Sylveon's weaknesses, threatens most Poison and Steel-types with its Dark STAB attacks, and its ability discourages Defog.
• Fire-types are good for breaking through the Steel-types that resist Sylveon's Hyper Voice; Mega-Zard (X or Y), Talonflame, and Entei are notable examples.
• An effective lure can be used to more easily remove Heatran from the game, allowing you to spam Hyper Voice easier.
• Mega-Mawile w/ Brick Break (or SubPunch) and Mega-Zard Y w/ EQ are two examples.
• Defog / Rapid Spin is important because Specs Sylveon has no way to heal herself.

Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Echoed Voice
move 2: Hyper Voice
move 3: Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Baton Pass
ability: Pixilate
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd

Moves
========

• Echoed Voice for mini sweeps.
• Hyper Voice for immediate power.
• HP Fire for... Scizor / Ferrothorn / Forry?
• Baton Pass for switch initiative, same as specs.

Set Details
========

• Max Speed + Special Attack & Timid Nature...
• ...because why else would you run a Choice Scarf?

Usage Tips
========

• Need a day to test this!

Team Options
========

• Need a day to test this!

Baton Pass
########
name: Baton Pass
move 1: Echoed Voice / Hyper Voice
move 2: Substitute / Wish
move 3: Calm Mind
move 4: Baton Pass
ability: Pixilate
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
nature: Bold

Moves
========

• Echoed Voice is the best option since Sylveon is often in play for multiple turns.
• Good synergy with the Baton Passing style-- serves as a secondary win condition.
• Hyper Voice can still be used for immediate power behind her STAB move.
• Substitute to block critical hits and status moves that threaten the chain.
• Wish > Sub is an option for teams that don't need extra Sub users.
• Calm Mind for boosting, helps bolster the team's Sp. Atk & Sp. Def stats.
  
• Baton Pass lets her keep the chain alive, and is crucial for success.

Set Details
========

• Max HP = bigger subs for the chain.
• Max Def = patch up weaker defense.
• You can run enough speed to outrun Noivern at +2.
• Sacrifices a lot of initial physical bulk, though.
• Leftovers to generate HP while staying in play.

Usage Tips
========

• After enough boosts, you can sweep by spamming Echoed Voice.
  
• Utilize her Fairy-typing to block attempts at Dragon Tail phazing.
• Also lets her handle the powerful dragon-types that bother Baton Pass teams.
• Try to use Calm Mind against weaker (special) attackers, easy to build them up there.
• Stay behind a Sub as much as possible-- status or crits can happen at any time.

Team Options
========

• Should ONLY be used on dedicated Baton Pass teams!
• ESPEON -- Magic Bounce + Stored Power = mainstay on Baton Pass teams.
• Vaporeon -- resists Steel, passes high-HP subs, and Aqua Ring adds extra recovery.
• Scolipede -- Speed Boost (passive boosting) + Iron Defense (boosts lower defense)
• Mawilie -- NON-MEGA for Leftovers + Intimidate (still has its fantastic typing)
• other BPers like Mega Absol, Mega Scizor, Mew, Celebi, etc.

Other Options
########

• Yawn is a decent option, but there are better pokemon for inducing sleep.
• Calm Mind sweeping is an option, but Clefable does it better with superior abilities.
• Baton Pass is cool to ease prediction and garner momentum for the Cleric set... no room, though.
  
• Echoed Voice gradually gains power on choice sets, allowing Sylveon to dent bulky resists like Ferrothorn.
• This is a poor option because nobody is going to leave their wall in long enough for Echoed Voice to break it.

Checks & Counters
########

• Poison and Steel-types. They hit her super effectively with STAB, and she can't do much back.
• Venusaur can be a tank or wall, and is the top poison-type at the moment.
• Scizor threatens a Bullet Punch, but can then shift momentum by U-Turning on the switch.
• Aegislash takes a pittance from Hyper Voice, threatens an Iron Head, and does massive damage to just about any switch-in with proper prediction.
• Roar and Whirlwind screw up who gets healed by Wish AND Sylveon's own recovery -- Heatran, Hippowdown, and Skarmory are among the best users.

 

[machao11991]

Just a little nitpick but it's Pixilate, as in pixie, not Pixelate.

 

[The Great Gastly]

Just a little nitpick but it's Pixilate, as in pixie, not Pixelate.

Fixed. I noticed that mistake as I was typing, but never went back and changed it. :s

The skeleton is finished, and I await feedback!

 

[CyclicCompound]

Hi, nice looking analysis.

Hyper Voice is the best mono-attacking option due to Pixilate + STAB boosting it to a respectable 117 BP, and is better than Moonblast because it hits through substitute and dual screens.

I have just a little bit of nitpicking too—Hyper Voice IS affected by Light Screen. I think you were thinking of the ability Infiltrator, which bypasses both Substitute and dual screens.

Also, Sylveon faces a lot of competition in its Cleric role from mainly Blissey and Togekiss. Make sure you're letting the reader know the specific things that make Sylveon appealing over those two Pokemon, particularly Blissey.

 

[The Great Gastly]

Hi, nice looking analysis.

I have just a little bit of nitpicking too—Hyper Voice IS affected by Light Screen. I think you were thinking of the ability Infiltrator, which bypasses both Substitute and dual screens.

Also, Sylveon faces a lot of competition in its Cleric role from mainly Blissey and Togekiss. Make sure you're letting the reader know the specific things that make Sylveon appealing over those two Pokemon, particularly Blissey.

I was, but fixed that after proofreading my work. Thanks for noticing! I'll also be sure to include her uses over Blissey and Togekiss. Thanks. :)

 

[Fuzznip]

You need a Choice Specs set on here. It's insanely strong.

 

[Tainic]

Yeah, Specsveon is boss.

An Assault Vest set also looks viable :

Sylveon (F) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Cute Charm / Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 6 SDef
Calm Nature
- Hyper Voice / Moonblast
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fighting] / Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ice]
- Psyshock

She does not have that many offensive options, what a waste, but she has exactly what's needed to be a tank as effective as Goodra.

 

[The Great Gastly]

Wow, I never even considered Sylveon for an offensive role! I'll test out Specs and AV before I write anything, though.

I'm thinking something along the lines of Hyper Voice / Shadow Ball / Psyshock / Support move | HP Fire. Very close to the set in the previous post.

 

[Fuzznip]

I like to use:

Hyper Voice
Echoed Voice
Shadow Ball
Hidden Power Fire

I like Echoed Voice because it can actually get strong enough to destroy Ferrothorn, Heatran, Chansey, and Blissey. Its power after a couple of turns is absolutely mindblowing. Also there isn't much else Sylveon needs to use, since it's primarily spamming Hyper Voice, so that's why I like having it for those cases and it works like a charm.

 

[Colonel M]

Slash Psyshock with Echoed Voice. Psyshock is still nice for Tentacruel

 

[The Great Gastly]

I added the specs set (obviously), but I haven't gotten around to testing it yet due to real life stuff-- I should be able to start by the 1st.

 

[Colonel M]

Almost forgot another reason for Psyshock - Mega Venusaur. Make that the main reason to use it by the way. Tentacruel can still be mentioned.

 

[The Great Gastly]

I apologize for any further delays, but I'll be sure to emphasize the use of Psyshock on the Specs set.

Are my slashes alright on that set? I'm not sure if I have them ordered correctly or not.

 

[RufflesPro]

I'm just a bypasser here (No one important) but I think that HP Ground would be better than HP Fire, as it gets Heatran, Poison- types in general, and Steel- types in general

 

[CyclicCompound]

I'm just a bypasser here (No one important) but I think that HP Ground would be better than HP Fire, as it gets Heatran, Poison- types in general, and Steel- types in general

As nice as it is smacking Heatran around with HP Ground, I would still vouch for HP Fire. HP Fire targets Ferrothorn, who, unlike Heatran, has much better recovery options. So whereas Heatran can be worn down eventually with Shadow Ball, it's much harder to wear down Ferrothorn with HP Ground or Shadow Ball.

 

[The Great Gastly]

Yeah, HP Fire is the better choice if you're gonna roll with Hidden Power... I'm personally not a fan of using an un-stabbed 60 BP move on choice sets, but I'm still keeping it up since I know other people will enjoy the ability to destroy Ferrothorn. :)

edit: I believe this is a ready for QC, unless there's anything else that needs to be added?

 

[Ulevo]

I thought it would be worth mentioning that Sylveon is one of the few Pokes you could ever consider using Hyper Beam with. I know it doesn't scream viable, but thanks to Pixilate its damage is pretty scary. Base power alone goes to 292.5, and unlike Echoed Voice, you do not need to wait to get immediate results. While it's risky if they have a stat up user to take advantage of that free turn, Sylv's coverage is already decent with the initial 3 options. You'd basically have to sit on this and use it when Sylv is going to be sacrificed and you know they can't do anything more to you with that free turn beyond finishing Sylv off, sort of how you'd use Explosion.

Just to give you an idea of the raw damage this does:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 0+ SpD Ferrothorn: 186-220 (52.8 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 300-354 (74.2 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 358-423 (50.1 - 59.2%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 4+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 396-468 (103.1 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 163-192 (50.3 - 59.2%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Togekiss: 306-360 (81.8 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Those are basically some of the bulkiest SpD Pokemon in the tier. Everything else essentially dies.

 

[veteranpython]

Small nitpick, most Sylveons are male since it's an Eeveelution. Should the term "she" should be reserved for Pokemon species that are confimed all female (eg, Chansey line, Kangaskhan, Mandibuzz line)

 

[The Great Gastly]

Hyper Beam post.

I really don't like Hyper Beam, as powerful as it is, because even after you kill something the opponent gets a free turn... and giving free turns are not good in any metagame. :s

Even if there's a situation where they'd have nothing else to do with that free turn (besides revenge KO Sylveon), that kind of situation is few and far between and will overall be less useful than additional coverage in a majority of matches.

Small nitpick, most Sylveons are male since it's an Eeveelution. Should the term "she" should be reserved for Pokemon species that are confimed all female (eg, Chansey line, Kangaskhan, Mandibuzz)

Gender doesn't matter as long as it is consistent in the analysis (excluding the 100% gender rates of course), and I have chosen to refer to Sylveon as a she because it has a decidedly more feminine appearance imo. :)

 

[The Great Gastly]

I believe this is ready for Quality Control!

 

[CyclicCompound]

Do not be predictable, and don't neglect Sylveon's own health!

Keep in mind I'm not QC, but I'm not really sure if this sentence works. If Sylveon's low at health, but has a great opportunity to heal up with Wish, Sylveon should obviously go for that chance, regardless of how predictable it is (unless Sylveon can truly be sacked at that point, but that's also just as predictable, provided your opponent is on the same page as you). The bottom line is, predictability and HP management are two skills that apply to just about every Pokemon, and is quite dependent on the situation at hand. While it's fine to say that Sylveon should be kept healthy with Wish, I think it should be more a commentary either on the move Wish (like, "Utilize Wish and Protect in tandem to keep Sylveon healthy") or more of a commentary on Sylveon's defensive prowess ("Wish keeps Sylveon healthy so it can continue to tank powerful attacks such as Specs Hydreigon's Flash Cannon.")

Again, not QC, so feel free to wait for further input.

 

[The Great Gastly]

snip snip

You're right, I also don't necessarily think that predictability and preserving HP are mutually exclusive of each other. I do need to re-phrase that bullet point, so thank you for bringing it to my attention! To QC members, this is (still) ready for feedback/approval.

Also: I need a 2nd opinion on the set order...

While consistently effective, the wish passing set does face steep competition from Clefable. It requires your team to need the very specific qualities Sylveon has instead (which is basically her superior Sp.Def + Pixelate), and 9 times out of 10 I've found myself switching to Clefable instead for the cleric role...

However, the Specs set faces little competition due to the tremendous power behind a STAB + Pixelate -boosted Hyper Voice ; it's a valuable niche that I'm starting to think deserves more attention. Thoughts?

 

[Morningstar]

I run an offensive set with Dig and Draining Kiss. I think those tw moves are worth considering (Considieng the drain and the fact that you might need a diffrent-type HP for other threats)

Side NOTE: This one isn't the lead. I use her and Aegislash to help cover for Latias and Latios' weaknesses. (and because she doesn't know wish or Baton Pass)

 

[Jukain]

definitely keep sdef first, it's the most consistent and generally useful. i've personally been utilizing it on a stall team with good results, and i'm sure many other people can vouch for its utility and overall excellency.

 

[alexwolf]

A few things about Echoed Voice. First, it only deals more damage in total in comparison to Hyper Voice after 3 turns, which means that it needs at least 4 turns to start doing more damage. Second, no sane Chansey and Blissey player would leave them in until Echoed Voice is strong enough to get past them. Third, do i really have to stress how easy to take advantage a move with a starting BP of 40 is? Forth, Echoed Voice doesn't let you get past Heatran. SpD sets wall you with Toxic + Protect or just Roar you out, and offensive sets 3HKO with Fire Blast, while you don't have enough time to make Echoed Voice strong enough to be worth using over Hyper Voice. Fifth, why would you want to spam Echoed Voice against Ferrothorn, when both Hyper Voice and HP Fire are better options against it. Here are the calcs btw:

- 252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 123-145 (34.9 - 41.1%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

- 252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 340-400 (96.5 - 113.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Why stay in and dick around with Echoed Voice, risking getting Gyro Balled, T-Wave, or Leech Seeded, when you could just OHKO it or put in 2HKO range for another time?

So, unless someone tells me even one thing that Echoed Voice is useful for, Echoed Voice should go to OO at best, for dump players that would leave their special walls in as they see this move instead of going into something that can threaten Sylveon offensively.