Shaymin [4F]

[Heysup]

I have also used Scarf Shaymin with some success. There were times when I really wished I could have just used Synthesis and kept attacking, but overall it was pretty solid. Most of Shaymins checks (Crobat, Protect Speed Boost Yanmega, Swellow) are pretty much owned by Scarf Shaymin.

100 SpAtk is far from bad in UU, especially since the 100 base Speed it has to back it up lets you use Modest. Natural Cure also eliminates the risk of switching your precious Scarfer into a Thunder Wave (from Regirock and such). A 180 BP move with decent coverage in UU is very underrated, it even 2hkos most things that resist it.

With a scarf, Shaymin instantly becomes one of the best revenge killers in the game. I personally love outspeeding DD Altaria for the KO, but there are plenty of other situations like that. Scarf definitely deserves a slash on the Choice set. Just put Scarf next to Specs and rename it "Choice"

Okay, here is my plan:

I'll slash it in for now, but may / probably will remove it if there are no actual benefits to using it, other than the obvious "speed boost", and beating Crobat easier, which doesn't make it exactly slash worthy.

You cannot OHKO DD Altaria with HP Ice, nor come even close with HP Rock. So in order for this slash to stay, I just want some examples of the "plenty of other situations" because I count two good ones so far, (revenging Crobat and Swellow).

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Why don't you just take the suggestions of like 5 people and add it in? "Oh, I'm just going to post a peer edit and then refuse any help I get"

First of all, the standard Dragon Dance Altaria in the analysis is always OHKOd by Modest Scarf Shaymin's HP Ice with SR down, Damage: 88.35% - 104.21%. HP Rock is almost an OHKO with SR down, any residual damage or LO recoil means Altaria loses (since Shaymin outspeeds and isnt ohkod by +1 Outrage)

Secondly, Yanmega. You will always outspeed +1 Yanmega (unless they are Timid with Speed Boost, which is extremely rare, and even then you can just use Timid Shaymin if you are that worried). HP Ice does Damage: 71.88% - 84.66%, an OHKO with SR down. Obviously HP Rock is an OHKO.

Also, both HP Ice and Rock do >50% to Crobat, which means if Crobat comes in to wall you, you 2HKO it before it Roosts, with or without SR.

Outspeeding the fairly common Scarf Roserade is nice. And also, outspeeding opposing Shaymins can be pretty clutch too. And that's not even counting the ability to revenge any Flying and Water-types you want. Earth Power also helps wreck Blaziken and Arcanine. Basically, Scarf Shaymin is one of the best revenge killers in UU, it is just usually overlooked because of how valuable Synthesis is.

Its not like Choice Scarf Shaymin isn't viable, you haven't even given a reason why it can't work other than "nope I dont want to add it". Scarf Shaymin is just as wallable as any other Shaymin set, this one just uses a clever trick to beat some of its best counters. All you need to do is slash it in and change the name of the set to "Choice"

 

[Heysup]

Why don't you just take the suggestions of like 5 people and add it in? "Oh, I'm just going to post a peer edit and then refuse any help I get"

First of all, the standard Dragon Dance Altaria in the analysis is always OHKOd by Modest Scarf Shaymin's HP Ice with SR down, Damage: 88.35% - 104.21%. HP Rock is almost an OHKO with SR down, any residual damage or LO recoil means Altaria loses (since Shaymin outspeeds and isnt ohkod by +1 Outrage)

Secondly, Yanmega. You will always outspeed +1 Yanmega (unless they are Timid with Speed Boost, which is extremely rare, and even then you can just use Timid Shaymin if you are that worried). HP Ice does Damage: 71.88% - 84.66%, an OHKO with SR down. Obviously HP Rock is an OHKO.

Also, both HP Ice and Rock do >50% to Crobat, which means if Crobat comes in to wall you, you 2HKO it before it Roosts, with or without SR.

Outspeeding the fairly common Scarf Roserade is nice. And also, outspeeding opposing Shaymins can be pretty clutch too. And that's not even counting the ability to revenge any Flying and Water-types you want. Earth Power also helps wreck Blaziken and Arcanine. Basically, Scarf Shaymin is one of the best revenge killers in UU, it is just usually overlooked because of how valuable Synthesis is.

Its not like Choice Scarf Shaymin isn't viable, you haven't even given a reason why it can't work other than "nope I dont want to add it". Scarf Shaymin is just as wallable as any other Shaymin set, this one just uses a clever trick to beat some of its best counters. All you need to do is slash it in and change the name of the set to "Choice"

There is no reason for you to get all sarcastic and defensive.

If you had decided to read my post, and possibly even the OP, you may have realized that I did that already (added it in). I just wanted some further reasons to add it in, other than for "surprise" factor (because Altaria is the only Pokemon you gave, and is fairly invalid, as Shaymin only has a 15% chance to OHKO), and you gave the examples that I asked for, so I won't be removing it.

My reasons for not immediately adding it, is because the way people said "add it, to surprise Pokemon like....", which is the exact reason OO exists. However you have given examples of how Scarf Shaymin can actually be good and so I will leave it in.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

You mention Choice Scarf in 2 different places saying nearly the same thing, and you don't mention Rest in the set at all. This strikes me as odd.

 

[Heysup]

You mention Choice Scarf in 2 different places saying nearly the same thing, and you don't mention Rest in the set at all. This strikes me as odd.

I accidently didnt remove the other bit I put in about the Choice Scarf, good catch.

I added rest into Set Comments, even though its basically just a gimped Life Orb set if it uses rest.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Why would that gimp it? It's fantastic for the same reason that it's good on choice variants of Altaria. Shaymin is usually switching out after it attacks anyway, so Rest can be nice to heal you up as their Shaymin counter switches in. Without recovery, Shaymin becomes a LOT less of a pain in the nuts, since it can be worn down by switching around it (and since it's choiced, that's not hard).

 

[Heysup]

Why would that gimp it? It's fantastic for the same reason that it's good on choice variants of Altaria. Shaymin is usually switching out after it attacks anyway, so Rest can be nice to heal you up as their Shaymin counter switches in. Without recovery, Shaymin becomes a LOT less of a pain in the nuts, since it can be worn down by switching around it (and since it's choiced, that's not hard).

Its good, but the Life Orb variant is undeniably better at using recovery, because it doesnt have to commit a whole switch-in just to recover. Not to mention one of the main reasons the LO Variant uses recovery is to deal with Registeel, which the Choice set cannot do.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

The choice set also wants to live for a good long time, since 100/100/100 defenses are a big selling point for using Shaymin in the first place. Rest allows you to potentially not die halfway through the match, which is a big deal for Shaymin. Even resisted hits take a toll on Shaymin eventually, so it seems like a bad idea to deprive Shaymin of solid healing in the form of Rest.

 

[Heysup]

I agree, but the main selling point of using Choice Specs is that you can use 4 coverage moves effectively, and aren't limitted by Life Orb recoil (which is basically forced to use a recovery move). Rest is certainly good, but slash worthy? I dont think so tbh.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Wouldn't that be the main selling point of a Life Orb set? Choice sets should have one main attack, then maybe one or two coverage attacks, and then a "USE ME A LOT" move like Rest.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50400

This thread pretty much outlines how you want to build choice sets, and anything outside of that is kinda overdoing it. Having 4 different coverage moves is stupid when you don't really want to use more than Seed Flare and MAYBE something else.

 

[Heysup]

Wouldn't that be the main selling point of a Life Orb set? Choice sets should have one main attack, then maybe one or two coverage attacks, and then a "USE ME A LOT" move like Rest.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50400

This thread pretty much outlines how you want to build choice sets, and anything outside of that is kinda overdoing it. Having 4 different coverage moves is stupid when you don't really want to use more than Seed Flare and MAYBE something else.

Actually with Shaymin, considering Grass's shitty offensive typing, and considering the whole slew of switch ins, it actually needs these coverage moves more than the average Pokemon.

Rest isnt a "use me a lot" move, it will probably, and should only be used sparingly. The main advantage for Shaymin to not have to use Synthesis is the fact that it can hit basically everything hard with more coverage attacks (EG, hitting altaria AND Crobat). Its defenses help out in this regard as well.

Anyway, what exactly are you suggesting? This discussion is pointless unless there is something you want changed. I mentioned Rest in SC's, do you want anything else?

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

I mainly want it as an actual slash, because I see no reason that one would ever use a hit-and-run "i force shitloads of switches" mon like Shaymin without Rest, considering that Rest helps the whole "Accessibility" part of a Choice user a lot.

 

[Heysup]

I mainly want it as an actual slash, because I see no reason that one would ever use a hit-and-run "i force shitloads of switches" mon like Shaymin without Rest, considering that Rest helps the whole "Accessibility" part of a Choice user a lot.

I see your point I guess, and its personal preference that I prefer 4 attacking moves, so the analysis shouldnt reflect that ^_^.

But the question is, Slashed on which slot?

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Fourth, probably, with the third slot being HP Ice / HP Rock. (Air Slash only hits Grasses, really, since the only Bugs in UU are all flying-type anyway.)

Optimally, it'd be:

- Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- HP Ice / HP Rock
- Rest

Move 1 for STAB, move 2 for hitting Poisons, Steels, and Fires. move 3 for hitting Flyers and either Grasses or Bugs (also articuno/moltres).

You can mention putting in a quaternary attack in to hit (insert type here), with Psychic being the most effective one alongside HP Rock in order to hit Grass/Poisons like Roserade.

 

[Heysup]

Fourth, probably, with the third slot being HP Ice / HP Rock. (Air Slash only hits Grasses, really, since the only Bugs in UU are all flying-type anyway.)

Optimally, it'd be:

- Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- HP Ice / HP Rock
- Rest

Move 1 for STAB, move 2 for hitting Poisons, Steels, and Fires. move 3 for hitting Flyers and either Grasses or Bugs (also articuno/moltres).

You can mention putting in a quaternary attack in to hit (insert type here), with Psychic being the most effective one alongside HP Rock in order to hit Grass/Poisons like Roserade.

That looks great, i'll edit it in after im done volunteering today.

 

[Heysup]

Posting just to see if there is anything else that needs to be fixed or changed.

If not, I think this is complete.

 

[Erazor]

The Swords Dance set still needs to be.... well, written completely.

 

[Heysup]

Eo Ut Mortus is writing the Peer Edit for that set, so I don't believe I need to add it in here. I could be wrong though.

 

[cim]

Just copy and paste it. Makes things easier for us.

 

[Heysup]

Alright I put it up.

 

[ChoiceBandBlissey]

Hello HeYsUp, little grammar check and edits, so let me know what you think.

Life Orb

<p>Shaymin is definitely one of the most powerful forces in the UU environment, given its stats. Utilizing Shaymin's bulk, Speed, Special Attack, movepool, and ability all in one set, Life Orb Shaymin makes a great contender in the UU metagame.</p>

<p>With this set, Shaymin can basically start off by letting loose its 120 base power STAB attack, Seed Flare. If your opponent has a Pokemon that resists Seed Flare, such as Registeel, then you can start using Earth Power until you are forced to Rest, and from there you can switch out with nearly full HP, or stay in to get rid of Registeel. Grass-types may also switch in and threaten Shaymin, but luckily, Shaymin has a couple of weapons to deal with these Pokemon. Other Shaymin may switch in expecting Leech Seed, but instead they will be taking a super effective Air Slash or Hidden Power Ice. Pokemon that have a 4x resistance to Seed Flare such as Crobat and Roserade are nailed by Psychic, whereas Air Slash does not faze Crobat at all. Hidden Power Ice is the safer [removed comma] but weaker option, hitting Crobat, Roserade, and other Grass-types for super effective damage, while also OHKOing Altaria as a bonus.</p>

<p>Synthesis is an option over Rest if you don't like the fact that you are essentially forced to switch after using Rest, but [deleted 'a'] full HP recovery with the sleep status [deleted 'quickly'] vanishing after switching out is nothing to scoff at.</p>

<p>Since Shaymin usually lures in Registeel, who can only be dealt with quickly by a couple Earth Powers (you should beware of Explosion), Pokemon that benefit from Registeel being weakened work quite well with Shaymin. Mismagius works especially well with Shaymin, because not only can it set up Calm Minds and sweep with Registeel out of the way, but it can also come in on a predicted Explosion, making it harmless. The main problematic Pokemon for Shaymin are bulky Grass-types, Chansey, and bulky Flying-types, who can easily stop Shaymin from sweeping. Since bulky Roserade likes staying in on Registeel and Regirock to set up Spikes, having one of these Pokemon with a trigger finger on Explosion for Roserade can be beneficial. Using Thunder Wave first to ease prediction can work, but after that be sure you are safe to explode on Roserade, hopefully letting Shaymin have an easy sweep. Pokemon such as Magmortar, Blaziken, and Nidoking work well too, because they can easily switch in on Chansey, who Shaymin also needs out of the way. With Stealth Rock in play, [deleted 'the'] bulky Flying-type Pokemon such as Crobat and Moltres will have trouble switching into Shaymin's attacks, so keep that in mind as well.</p>

<p>Defensively, Shaymin appreciates Pokemon who can stop Choice Scarf users [removed comma] or fast revenge killers that like to take out Shaymin. Crobat is a great example, because it can easily switch in on Seed Flare, and threaten to KO Shaymin with Brave Bird due to its superior Speed. Since Regirock and Steelix both wall Crobat, you can take this opportunity to set up Stealth Rock or [deleted 'to'] hit Crobat with a strong Gyro Ball or Stone Edge. Moltres can come in to either stall Shaymin out of PP, or KO it with a STAB Fire-type attack, and is also really dangerous if it sets up a Substitute as you switch out. Pokemon such as Rest + Sleep Talk Milotic can best deal with the Toxic stalling "SubRoost" Moltres, as well as some common Fire-type threats that threaten Shaymin, such as Choice Scarf Magmortar.</p>

Special Choice

<p>With Shaymin's great movepool, Speed, and Special Attack, it makes a great Choice Specs user. Seed Flare is Shaymin's main STAB attack, which is so powerful that it has a 30% to 2HKO Chansey (with the Special Defense drop). Earth Power grants coverage against Steel-types [removed comma] such as Registeel, while Hidden Power Ice covers other Shaymin and Tangrowth. Psychic is used to hit Crobat and the bulky Grass and Poison-types hard. Hidden Power Rock can be used in third slot or the last slot [removed comma] not only because it hits the previously mentioned Crobat and Altaria hard, but mainly because it KOes Moltres, who otherwise has an easy time walling this set. The main advantage of using Choice Specs over Life Orb is that Shaymin now doesn't take 10% recoil damage every attack, allowing it to utilize Rest much more effectively. Another advantage is that it has a chance to 2HKO Chansey.</p>

<p>This set is also effective in OU with its great coverage. Earth Power damages [deleted 'grounded'? Doesn't make sense] Steel-types, in particular Heatran and Magnezone. Air Slash helps to pick off Fighting-types such as Breloom, Heracross, and Infernape who may be tempted to come in on a Seed Flare. Air Slash is also your best option against opposing Grass-types, such as Celebi. Psychic can be used over Air Slash if you want neutral coverage on Zapdos while still hitting Fighting-types and Gengar. However, you are now left powerless against Celebi. Hidden Power Fire is a good complement to this set and allows Shaymin to take on non-grounded? [what does this mean] Steel Pokemon such as Skarmory and Bronzong. Hidden Power Ice is a decent option to OHKO Salamence and Dragonite but Air Slash will 2HKO both most of the time anyway. The final option is Grass Knot due to Seed Flare's low PP and shaky accuracy.</p>

<p>A Choice Scarf can be used [removed comma] with slightly more defensive EVs and a Modest nature to get some surprise kills. However, 100 base Special Attack is not low by any means, but it isn't exactly the highest either. Roserade usually pulls this off better. Though the loss in power hurts (from not using Choice Specs), a Choice Scarf with a Modest nature can easily deal some major damage, and most importantly score some surprise KOes on Swellow, Crobat, and even a +1 Speed Yanmega. With Crobat out of the way, Pokemon such as Mismagius and Espeon have a much easier time sweeping, and Shaymin can also now sweep on its own with its STAB move.</p>

<p>With this set, Pokemon such as Rest + Sleep Talk Milotic at its side are even more important on this variant, because Moltres can basically come in on any attack except for Hidden Power Rock while Shaymin is locked in. Bulky walls help cushion the attacks that are sure to come when something switches into a resisted move that Shaymin is locked into, so any defensive combination of Pokemon help. Slowbro and Registeel make a nice combo, because they cover each other's weaknesses, and collectively resist everything minus Ground-type attacks, which Shaymin has covered. The Ground-type "weakness" so to speak of this defensive combo will give Shaymin an easy opportunity to come back in to continue dishing out damage.</p>

<p>In OU, Shaymin works well to clear the path for Pokemon such as Calm Mind Celebi and the like. Heatran works extremely well with Shaymin, as it can absorb the Fire-type attacks aimed at Shaymin, while Shaymin can absorb the Water and Ground-type attacks aimed at Heatran. Shaymin also works well with Gyarados, who lures out Electric-type attacks and gives Shaymin many more opportunities to deal damage to the opposing team.</p>

SubSeed
Please disregard the gap between the quote boxes.

<p>This is one of Shaymin's most annoying [removed comma] and (deleted 'eventually')

dangerous sets. With Shaymin's very good defensive stats, very impressive Speed, and a powerful Air Slash to hit Grass-types, a SubSeeding Shaymin can put your opponents on their heels. Being able to easily take on Shaymin's most common switch-ins, such as Registeel and Chansey, Shaymin will likely be able to force your opponent to sacrifice one of their other Pokemon to break Shaymin's Substitute. With 101 HP Substitutes, any Pokemon relying on Seismic Toss will get shut down easily.</p>

<p>Shaymin is bulky enough that a standard Registeel cannot break its Substitute without a lot of Attack EVs or Explosion, making it a great Pokemon against which to begin the Leech Seed stalling process. [i believe you have a space here, so remember to delete this]</p>

<p>With Shaymin causing so many switches with Leech Seed and Special Defense drops, this set works incredibly well on a stall team, where not many Pokemon have reliable recovery. Stealth Rock and Spikes support add much more depth to this set, making your opponent think twice about switching out of Leech Seed. Pokemon such as Omastar, Cloyster, and Roserade make great Spikes users, but especially Omastar, who lures out Ground-type attacks for Shaymin to switch into. Many Pokemon learn Stealth Rock, so as long as it gets set up reliably, that Pokemon has done a lot to help Shaymin.</p>

<p>Pokemon such as Calm Mind Mismagius and Espeon cause trouble for this Shaymin, being immune to Leech Seed and shrugging off other special attacks after a couple Calm Minds, with the added threat that they will likely sweep if not stopped immediately. Registeel is arguably the best Calm Mind counter in the game, because he resists Ghost and Psychic-type attacks, has amazing Special Defense, and can easily KO either Espeon or Mismagius with STAB Iron Head. Pokemon with Taunt, such as Crobat, give Shaymin trouble, but especially Crobat because it is faster and has U-turn, which breaks Shaymin's Substitute and gets rid of Leech Seed. A Taunt variant of Drapion can also cause trouble for this set if you opt for Seed Flare over Earth Power. Luring out Crobat is not too difficult—taking it out with a sleep-inducing or Destiny Bond lead can work wonders against Crobat, as can a lead Arcanine. However, as long as you keep Stealth Rock in play, Crobat will have a hard time switching in to even Shaymin's weak special attacks. Life Orb Roserade with Hidden Power Rock or Ice can do Crobat in as well. Drapion is easily killed off by a strong Earthquake or special attack, but be wary of Swords Dance sweeping variants, who you need a slightly more specialized counter for, such as Steelix or Regirock.</p>

Swords Dance [very well written, not many mistakes at all]
Please disregard the gap between the quote boxes.

This Shaymin is designed to be a good switch-in on the various special attackers of UU, such as Mismagius, Espeon, and Rotom. Swords Dance Shaymin's advantage over special variants is its ability to penetrate the unboosted defense stats of Calm Minding Pokemon and sheer surprise factor. Also, because Shaymin is usually specially oriented, Swords Dance Shaymin is effective in luring in Pokemon such as Chansey and Altaria—Pokemon who usually beat special variants of Shaymin but who struggle against this set.</p>

<p>The combination of Shaymin's bulk and Synthesis allows it to Swords Dance multiple times, which makes up for its low EV investment in Attack. Seed Bomb and Return provide decent coverage, only resisted by Drifblim, Wormadam-S, Registeel, Magneton and Mawile. Zen Headbutt is an option over Return, granting greater coverage on Pokemon such as Blaziken, Crobat, Roserade, and Venusaur.</p>

<p>In dealing with the Calm Minders of UU, Shaymin is somewhat overshadowed by Chansey, who has a much higher HP stat. However, Chansey is unable to beat Mismagius, by virtue of its Ghost-typing and Substitute, Clefable, thanks to Magic Guard, and Pokemon with Rest, such as Spiritomb. Shaymin can handily manage all three.</p>

<p>To demonstrate Shaymin's bulk, +1 Timid Espeon cannot 2HKO Shaymin without Stealth Rock support. If Stealth Rock is down, then the situation is still salvageable for the Shaymin user. If Shaymin switches in on a Calm Mind, Espeon has the ability to 2HKO Shaymin. However, if Shaymin uses Synthesis, once or twice depending on the damage roll, to recover back to full health, it can Swords Dance [removed comma] and KO Espeon with Seed Bomb without suffering a KO itself. If, however, Espeon Calm Minds during Synthesis, Shaymin will be unable to KO it before dying itself.</p>

<p>The utility of recovery and Shaymin's sturdiness are displayed even better when setting up on non-boosting attackers. Shaymin can beat most Venusaur, Uxie, Torterra, Rotom, and Encore-less Clefable one-on-one. It can even beat opposing (non-Specs) Shaymin, as long as they don't flinch you [space] too many times with Air Slash.</p>

<p>The 96 Attack EVs guarantees a KO on 108 HP Mismagius with Seed Bomb after a Swords Dance. If this doesn't concern you, only 36 Attack EVs are needed to guarantee a KO on Espeon, and the rest can be invested in HP. 96 Speed EVs bring Shaymin up to 260 Speed, allowing it to outspeed neutral-natured, max-speed base 80s, including Blaziken, Gardevoir, and Altaria. The rest of the EVs are poured into Special Defense and HP to enable to Shaymin to take special hits as well as possible.</p>

<p>Fire-types, such as Arcanine, Moltres, Charizard, and Typhlosion, are problematic for Shaymin. As such, using Stealth Rock is imperative. Regirock is a decent choice for allowing Shaymin to set up, especially one with Rest to rid itself of the Toxic that Arcanine and Moltres commonly carry. Bulky Water-types such as Slowbro and Milotic deal with these Fire-types as well as Steelix, who can Roar Shaymin out at full health. Physically defensive Poison-types, such as Weezing and Crobat, will also hinder Shaymin's sweep. Bulky special attackers such as Mespirit, Uxie, and Rotom can hit both of them with STAB Psychics and Thunderbolts, respectively. Registeel is undoubtedly the best counter to this Shaymin, sporting a resistance to both of its attacking moves. However, many Pokemon can capitalize on a Registeel switch-in; Blaziken, Nidoking, and Torterra pose numerous threats with their various STAB attacks and take little damage from Iron Head. Nidoking and Torterra also sport immunities to Thunder Wave. If you're looking for a Pokemon that takes the most advantage of all of Shaymin's common switch-ins, Omastar is one of the best options. It can switch into most of the common sets of these Pokemon and can take advantage of a free turn to set up Spikes, Toxic Spikes, or Stealth Rock.</p>

Support
Please disregard the gap between the quote boxes.

<p>A change of pace here, with the focus being on Defense and support rather than all out attack. As this version of Shaymin should stick around for quite some time, Grass Knot is listed as an option over Seed Flare due to issues with PP. Rest and Natural Cure work very well together, although it requires Shaymin to switch out to remove the sleep status. Aromatherapy is a rare and useful commodity which Shaymin uses quite effectively. In the last slot you can choose Leech Seed for some extra healing for Shaymin and its teammates, or Air Slash to hit other Grass-types and for the flinch chance.</p>

<p>This variant of Shaymin is helpful mainly because it can cure status, and does not drop dead at the sight of a physical attack like Chansey (what?). Pokemon who can utilize this well are sweepers such as Blaziken and Drapion, who may switch into a weak wall, but may be hit by Thunder Wave, which renders them useless as sweepers.</p>

Team Options sounds good

Other Options

<p>Growth can be used to raise Shaymin's respectable Special Attack, but that gives Shaymin "moveslot syndrome". GrassWhistle can be used as a sleep move, but the low accuracy rarely makes it worthwhile. Toxic can be effective on defensive sets.</p>

EVs looks good

Opinion: "More bulky" should be replaced with bulkier

Counters:

Crobat makes the perfect candidate, because not only does it resist Seed Flare...

 

[Heysup]

Hey thanks, i'll get those in. However this made me lol:

Swords Dance [very well written, not many mistakes at all]

That's the one set I didn't write. Eo Ut Mortus wrote it lol :)

 

[Heysup]

I think this is done, unless anyone has anything else to add.

 

[Stellar]

Unless anyone else thinks differently, I think we should hold off on uploading this until Shaymin's tier status is finalized for the next round of UU testing.

 

[Heysup]

That's fair I guess.