Shaymin [4F]

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Well with DP Crobat's response to my PM, I took from it that I should definately still post my analysis. Especially since I did post on Aldaron's thread first. Here is the #1 used UU Pokemon.

www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/shaymin
[SET]
name: Life Orb
move 1: Seed Flare
move 2: Earth Power
move 3: Air Slash / Psychic / Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Rest / Synthesis
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Shaymin is definitely one of the most powerful forces in the UU environment, given its stats. Utilizing Shaymin's bulk, Speed, Special Attack, movepool, and ability all in one set, Life Orb Shaymin makes a great contender in the UU metagame.</p>

<p>With this set, Shaymin can basically start off by letting loose its 120 base power STAB attack, Seed Flare. If your opponent has a Pokemon that resists Seed Flare, such as Registeel, then you can start using Earth Power until you are forced to Rest, and from there you can switch out with nearly full HP, or stay in to get rid of Registeel. Grass-types may also switch in and threaten Shaymin, but luckily, Shaymin has a couple of weapons to deal with these Pokemon. Other Shaymin may switch in expecting Leech Seed, but instead they will be taking a super effective Air Slash or Hidden Power Ice. Pokemon that have a 4x resistance to Seed Flare such as Crobat and Roserade are nailed by Psychic, whereas Air Slash does not faze Crobat at all. Hidden Power Ice is the safer but weaker option, hitting Crobat, Roserade, and other Grass-types for super effective damage, while also OHKOing Altaria as a bonus.</p>

<p>Synthesis is an option over Rest if you don't like the fact that you are essentially forced to switch after using Rest, but [deleted 'a'] full HP recovery with the sleep status vanishing after switching out is nothing to scoff at.</p>

<p>Since Shaymin usually lures in Registeel, who can only be dealt with quickly by a couple Earth Powers (you should beware of Explosion), Pokemon that benefit from Registeel being weakened work quite well with Shaymin. Mismagius works especially well with Shaymin, because not only can it set up Calm Minds and sweep with Registeel out of the way, but it can also come in on a predicted Explosion, making it harmless. The main problematic Pokemon for Shaymin are bulky Grass-types, Chansey, and bulky Flying-types, who can easily stop Shaymin from sweeping. Since bulky Roserade likes staying in on Registeel and Regirock to set up Spikes, having one of these Pokemon with a trigger finger on Explosion for Roserade can be beneficial. Using Thunder Wave first to ease prediction can work, but after that be sure you are safe to explode on Roserade, hopefully letting Shaymin have an easy sweep. Pokemon such as Magmortar, Blaziken, and Nidoking work well too, because they can easily switch in on Chansey, who Shaymin also needs out of the way. With Stealth Rock in play, bulky Flying-type Pokemon such as Crobat and Moltres will have trouble switching into Shaymin's attacks, so keep that in mind as well.</p>

<p>Defensively, Shaymin appreciates Pokemon who can stop Choice Scarf users or fast revenge killers that like to take out Shaymin. Crobat is a great example, because it can easily switch in on Seed Flare, and threaten to KO Shaymin with Brave Bird due to its superior Speed. Since Regirock and Steelix both wall Crobat, you can take this opportunity to set up Stealth Rock or hit Crobat with a strong Gyro Ball or Stone Edge. Moltres can come in to either stall Shaymin out of PP, or KO it with a STAB Fire-type attack, and is also really dangerous if it sets up a Substitute as you switch out. Pokemon such as Rest + Sleep Talk Milotic can best deal with the Toxic stalling "SubRoost" Moltres, as well as some common Fire-type threats that threaten Shaymin, such as Choice Scarf Magmortar.</p>

[SET]
name: Special Choice
move 1: Seed Flare
move 2: Earth Power
move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Psychic / Hidden Power Rock
move 4: Rest
item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

<p>With Shaymin's great movepool, Speed, and Special Attack, it makes a great Choice Specs user. Seed Flare is Shaymin's main STAB attack, which is so powerful that it has a 30% to 2HKO Chansey (with the Special Defense drop). Earth Power grants coverage against Steel-types such as Registeel, while Hidden Power Ice covers other Shaymin and Tangrowth. Psychic is used to hit Crobat and the bulky Grass and Poison-types hard. Hidden Power Rock can be used in third slot or the last slot not only because it hits the previously mentioned Crobat and Altaria hard, but mainly because it KOes Moltres, who otherwise has an easy time walling this set. The main advantage of using Choice Specs over Life Orb is that Shaymin now doesn't take 10% recoil damage every attack, allowing it to utilize Rest much more effectively. Another advantage is that it has a chance to 2HKO Chansey.</p>

<p>This set is also effective in OU with its great coverage. Earth Power damages grounded Steel-types, in particular Heatran and Magnezone. Air Slash helps to pick off Fighting-types such as Breloom, Heracross, and Infernape who may be tempted to come in on a Seed Flare. Air Slash is also your best option against opposing Grass-types, such as Celebi. Psychic can be used over Air Slash if you want neutral coverage on Zapdos while still hitting Fighting-types and Gengar. However, you are now left powerless against Celebi. Hidden Power Fire is a good complement to this set and allows Shaymin to take on non-grounded Steel Pokemon such as Skarmory and Bronzong. Hidden Power Ice is a decent option to OHKO Salamence and Dragonite but Air Slash will 2HKO both most of the time anyway. The final option is Grass Knot due to Seed Flare's low PP and shaky accuracy.</p>

<p>A Choice Scarf can be used with slightly more defensive EVs and a Modest nature to get some surprise kills. However, 100 base Special Attack is not low by any means, but it isn't exactly the highest either. Roserade usually pulls this off better. Though the loss in power hurts (from not using Choice Specs), a Choice Scarf with a Modest nature can easily deal some major damage, and most importantly score some surprise KOes on Swellow, Crobat, and even a +1 Speed Yanmega. With Crobat out of the way, Pokemon such as Mismagius and Espeon have a much easier time sweeping, and Shaymin can also now sweep on its own with its STAB move.</p>

<p>With this set, Pokemon such as Rest + Sleep Talk Milotic at its side are even more important on this variant, because Moltres can basically come in on any attack except for Hidden Power Rock while Shaymin is locked in. Bulky walls help cushion the attacks that are sure to come when something switches into a resisted move that Shaymin is locked into, so any defensive combination of Pokemon help. Slowbro and Registeel make a nice combo, because they cover each other's weaknesses, and collectively resist everything minus Ground-type attacks, which Shaymin has covered. The Ground-type "weakness" so to speak of this defensive combo will give Shaymin an easy opportunity to come back in to continue dishing out damage.</p>

<p>In OU, Shaymin works well to clear the path for Pokemon such as Calm Mind Celebi and the like. Heatran works extremely well with Shaymin, as it can absorb the Fire-type attacks aimed at Shaymin, while Shaymin can absorb the Water and Ground-type attacks aimed at Heatran. Shaymin also works well with Gyarados, who lures out Electric-type attacks and gives Shaymin many more opportunities to deal damage to the opposing team.</p>

[SET]
name: SubSeed
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Seed Flare / Earth Power
move 4: Air Slash / Hidden Power Ice
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This is one of Shaymin's most annoying and eventually dangerous sets. With Shaymin's very good defensive stats, very impressive Speed, and a powerful Air Slash to hit Grass-types, a SubSeeding Shaymin can put your opponents on their heels. Being able to easily take on Shaymin's most common switch-ins, such as Registeel and Chansey, Shaymin will likely be able to force your opponent to sacrifice one of their other Pokemon to break Shaymin's Substitute. With 101 HP Substitutes, any Pokemon relying on Seismic Toss will get shut down easily.</p>

<p>Shaymin is bulky enough that a standard Registeel cannot break its Substitute without a lot of Attack EVs or Explosion, making it a great Pokemon against which to begin the Leech Seed stalling process.</p>

<p>With Shaymin causing so many switches with Leech Seed and Special Defense drops, this set works incredibly well on a stall team, where not many Pokemon have reliable recovery. Stealth Rock and Spikes support add much more depth to this set, making your opponent think twice about switching out of Leech Seed. Pokemon such as Omastar, Cloyster, and Roserade make great Spikes users, but especially Omastar, who lures out Ground-type attacks for Shaymin to switch into. Many Pokemon learn Stealth Rock, so as long as it gets set up reliably, that Pokemon has done a lot to help Shaymin.</p>

<p>Pokemon such as Calm Mind Mismagius and Espeon cause trouble for this Shaymin, being immune to Leech Seed and shrugging off other special attacks after a couple Calm Minds, with the added threat that they will likely sweep if not stopped immediately. Registeel is arguably the best Calm Mind counter in the game, because he resists Ghost and Psychic-type attacks, has amazing Special Defense, and can easily KO either Espeon or Mismagius with STAB Iron Head. Pokemon with Taunt, such as Crobat, give Shaymin trouble, but especially Crobat because it is faster and has U-turn, which breaks Shaymin's Substitute and gets rid of Leech Seed. A Taunt variant of Drapion can also cause trouble for this set if you opt for Seed Flare over Earth Power. Luring out Crobat is not too difficult—taking it out with a sleep-inducing or Destiny Bond lead can work wonders against Crobat, as can a lead Arcanine. However, as long as you keep Stealth Rock in play, Crobat will have a hard time switching in to even Shaymin's weak special attacks. Life Orb Roserade with Hidden Power Rock or Ice can do Crobat in as well. Drapion is easily killed off by a strong Earthquake or special attack, but be wary of Swords Dance sweeping variants, who you need a slightly more specialized counter for, such as Steelix or Regirock.</p>

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Seed Bomb
move 3: Synthesis
move 4: Return / Zen Headbutt
item: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 64 HP / 96 Atk / 252 SpD / 96 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This Shaymin is designed to be a good switch-in on the various special attackers of UU, such as Mismagius, Espeon, and Rotom. Swords Dance Shaymin's advantage over special variants is its ability to penetrate the unboosted defense stats of Calm Minding Pokemon and sheer surprise factor. Also, because Shaymin is usually specially oriented, Swords Dance Shaymin is effective in luring in Pokemon such as Chansey and Altaria—Pokemon who usually beat special variants of Shaymin but who struggle against this set.</p>

<p>The combination of Shaymin's bulk and Synthesis allows it to Swords Dance multiple times, which makes up for its low EV investment in Attack. Seed Bomb and Return provide decent coverage, only resisted by Drifblim, Wormadam-S, Registeel, Magneton and Mawile. Zen Headbutt is an option over Return, granting greater coverage on Pokemon such as Blaziken, Crobat, Roserade, and Venusaur.</p>

<p>In dealing with the Calm Minders of UU, Shaymin is somewhat overshadowed by Chansey, who has a much higher HP stat. However, Chansey is unable to beat Mismagius, by virtue of its Ghost-typing and Substitute, Clefable, thanks to Magic Guard, and Pokemon with Rest, such as Spiritomb. Shaymin can handily manage all three.</p>

<p>To demonstrate Shaymin's bulk, +1 Timid Espeon cannot 2HKO Shaymin without Stealth Rock support. If Stealth Rock is down, then the situation is still salvageable for the Shaymin user. If Shaymin switches in on a Calm Mind, Espeon has the ability to 2HKO Shaymin. However, if Shaymin uses Synthesis, once or twice depending on the damage roll, to recover back to full health, it can Swords Dance and KO Espeon with Seed Bomb without suffering a KO itself. If, however, Espeon Calm Minds during Synthesis, Shaymin will be unable to KO it before dying itself.</p>

<p>The utility of recovery and Shaymin's sturdiness are displayed even better when setting up on non-boosting attackers. Shaymin can beat most Venusaur, Uxie, Torterra, Rotom, and Encore-less Clefable one-on-one. It can even beat opposing (non-Specs) Shaymin, as long as they don't flinch you too many times with Air Slash.</p>

<p>The 96 Attack EVs guarantees a KO on 108 HP Mismagius with Seed Bomb after a Swords Dance. If this doesn't concern you, only 36 Atk EVs are needed to guarantee a KO on Espeon, and the rest can be invested in HP. 96 Speed EVs bring Shaymin up to 260 Speed, allowing it to outspeed neutral-natured, max-speed base 80s, including Blaziken, Gardevoir, and Altaria. The rest of the EVs are poured into Special Defense and HP to enable to Shaymin to take special hits as well as possible.</p>

<p>Fire-types, such as Arcanine, Moltres, Charizard, and Typhlosion, are problematic for Shaymin. As such, using Stealth Rock is imperative. Regirock is a decent choice to set up Stealth Rock, especially one with Rest to rid itself of the Toxic that Arcanine and Moltres commonly carry. Bulky Water-types such as Slowbro and Milotic deal with these Fire-types as well as Steelix, who can Roar Shaymin out at full health. Physically defensive Poison-types, such as Weezing and Crobat, will also hinder Shaymin's sweep. Bulky special attackers such as Mespirit, Uxie, and Rotom can hit both of them with STAB Psychics and Thunderbolts, respectively. Registeel is undoubtedly the best counter to this Shaymin, sporting a resistance to both of its attacking moves. However, many Pokemon can capitalize on a Registeel switch-in; Blaziken, Nidoking, and Torterra pose numerous threats with their various STAB attacks and take little damage from Iron Head. Nidoking and Torterra also sport immunities to Thunder Wave. If you're looking for a Pokemon that takes the most advantage of all of Shaymin's common switch-ins, Omastar is one of the best options. It can switch into most of the common sets of these Pokemon and can take advantage of a free turn to set up Spikes, Toxic Spikes, or Stealth Rock.</p>

[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Seed Flare / Grass Knot
move 2: Aromatherapy
move 3: Rest / Synthesis
move 4: Leech Seed / Air Slash
item: Leftovers
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>A change of pace here, with the focus being on Defense and support rather than all out attack. As this version of Shaymin should stick around for quite some time, Grass Knot is listed as an option over Seed Flare due to issues with PP. Rest and Natural Cure work very well together, although it requires Shaymin to switch out to remove the sleep status. Aromatherapy is a rare and useful commodity which Shaymin uses quite effectively. In the last slot you can choose Leech Seed for some extra healing for Shaymin and its teammates, or Air Slash to hit other Grass-types and for the flinch chance.</p>

<p>This variant of Shaymin is helpful mainly because it can cure status, and does not drop dead at the sight of a physical attack like Chansey. Pokemon who can utilize this well are sweepers such as Blaziken and Drapion, who may switch into a weak wall, but may be hit by Thunder Wave, which renders them useless as sweepers.</p>

[Team Options]

<p>Shaymin is a great all around Pokemon, and because of this people take measures to ensure that they are not open to a Shaymin sweep. Many people carry various Shaymin counters, such as Chansey and Moltres, while having checks such as Crobat and Charizard as well. Unfortunately, the bulky Water-types, such as Milotic, who Shaymin handles easily, are often used with Shaymin counters, such as Roserade in the case of Milotic. Drapion and Blaziken are often used with Mismagius, who can avoid the Earth Power aimed at them, and proceed to set up Calm Minds.</p>

<p>For those reasons, it's recommended that Shaymin has a couple tools of its own to get passed these counters. For Pokemon such as Chansey, a strong mixed attacker can do the trick easily, by luring Chansey in with special attacks, and then hitting it hard with a physical attack. Pokemon such as Blaziken and Magmortar do this well, with their high Special Attack and Fighting moves. Magmortar has an easier time with Altaria, as most variants use Hidden Power Ice, however Blaziken can just as well use Stone Edge to take out the dragon .</p>

<p>Shaymin lures out Pokemon such as Registeel, and can weaken some of your opponent's walls as well. Pokemon who benefit from having Registeel weakened include Espeon, Yanmega, and Mismagius. With Registeel down, Espeon and Mismagius are free to set up some Calm Minds and attempt a sweep. Yanmega can Substitute down to get a Petaya Berry boost, and sweep with Bug Buzz and Air Slash, with Registeel, who resists both of Yanmega's STABs, out of the way.</p>

<p>Defensively, Shaymin appreciates Pokemon that can take Brave Birds, and strong Fire-type attacks from Pokemon who attempt to revenge kill it. A great complement for Shaymin in this case is Regirock, who resists both of those attacks, and also lures Ground and Water-type attacks for Shaymin to switch into. A Rest + Sleep Talk variant of Milotic is appreciated as well, because Toxic stalling "SubRoost" Moltres can be dangerous to give a Substitute to, but Milotic can handle it fine with STAB Surfs and its ability to benefit from status.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Growth can be used to raise Shaymin's respectable Special Attack, but that gives Shaymin "moveslot syndrome". GrassWhistle can be used as a sleep move, but the low accuracy rarely makes it worthwhile. Toxic can be effective on defensive sets.</p>

[EVs]

<p>For the sweeper sets (Choice Specs and Life Orb), maximize Special Attack and Speed with a Timid or Modest nature. A Timid nature is recommended to outspeed Pokemon such as max Speed Drapion, Roserade and Houndoom. Modest packs an extra punch though, which is always nice.</p>

<p>The SubSeed set uses maximum HP and Speed EVs to outrun more Pokemon, and to have an incredibly bulky Substitute. The defensive set has split defenses to take more hits from both ends of the attacking spectrum.</p>

<p>The Swords Dance set has rather specific EVs in order to counter many of the common threats such as Mismagius and Espeon. It has enough Attack to 2HKO most Mismagius, while being incredibly bulky on the special side with max Special Defense EVs.</p>

[Opinion]

<p>Shaymin is one of those Pokemon who holds teams together. With every stat being base 100, Shaymin not only has great offense to offer, but also great Speed and bulk. When using Shaymin, keep in mind that you should use it for its bulk, and not just focus on its high powered Seed Flare.</p>

<p>With Drapion and Roserade on so many teams, people tend to stay away from Toxic Spikes, which is why Shaymin is often used over Roserade and Venusaur as a bulky Grass-type. Shaymin is the glue for most teams, boasting the rare mono Grass-typing, which allows it to take the ever present Earthquakes, which the other part Poison-types cannot do. Shaymin is bulkier on the physical side than its fellow Grass-types, while also having more Speed backing it up. Shaymin also boasts Earth Power and Air Slash, which give Shaymin nearly perfect coverage, while the others are stuck with Sludge Bomb and Hidden Power as coverage attacks. Shaymin's biggest advantage is Seed Flare, as the other Grass-types are forced to use Leaf Storm, making them suffer a -2 Special Attack drop after the attack. However, Roserade packs a higher Special Attack stat than Shaymin, and with a Choice Scarf, it can make a much better revenge killer than Shaymin. Venusaur and Roserade also benefit from Sleep Powder, which is a very nice utility move to have.</p>

<p>Overall, Shaymin is a dangerous sweeper that boasts bulk, great Speed, amazing type coverage, as well as a strong STAB attack in Seed Flare. Shaymin has the stats to utilize these attacks, and then some.</p>

[Counters]

<p>The best way to counter a sweeping Shaymin is to find out its final coverage move alongside Seed Flare and Earth Power, while another effective way is to run Seed Flare out of PP. Chansey is specially bulky enough to take almost any attack from Shaymin, and is arguably the best and safest switch-in. Moltres is generally a good switch-in as well, especially since it lowers Seed Flare's PP by two each time it gets hit by one due to Pressure. Moltres needs to beware of the odd Hidden Power Rock variants however. Regice is a pretty good switch-in to Shaymin as long as Stealth Rock is off the field, or if Regice has some Special Defense investment.</p>

<p>With Shaymin using Air Slash, Pokemon such as Altaria, Crobat, and Charizard can have fun switching in and taking minimal damage, as well as forcing Shaymin out with a strong super effective attack. A specially bulky Roserade or Venasaur can come in and threaten to KO with Sludge Bomb as well.</p>

<p>When Shaymin is using Hidden Power Ice, Moltres can still switch in with ease, but it has much better coverage than Air Slash. However, now Shaymin is more vulerable to bulky Grass-types, due to the lower base power of Hidden Power and the loss of the flinch chance. </p>

<p>With Psychic, the previously mentioned Roserade cannot switch in effectively due to its high base power. This opens the door back up for Altaria however, who boasts high Special Defense.</p>

<p>The SubSeeding variant is easily stopped by any Pokemon with decent special bulk and Taunt or U-turn. Crobat makes the perfect candidate, because not only does it resist Seed Flare, but it has Taunt and U-turn at its disposal.</p>

<p>Shaymin is easily revenge killed by a strong super effective attack from a Choice Scarf user such as Magmortar. Crobat and Swellow both outpace Shaymin and can KO with Brave Bird as well. A Choice Specs, or even Calm Mind Espeon can KO Shaymin with Signal Beam, while also outspeeding Shaymin.</p>

<p>In OU, Shaymin is effectively walled by Blissey and Latias. Choice Scarf Heatran can come in easily on a Seed Flare, and threaten to OHKO Shaymin with Fire Blast, while Salamence can as well. Infernape can outrun Shaymin, and set it ablaze with Fire Blast or Flamethrower.</p>

Added Eo Ut Mortus' Swords Dance set into the analysis.
 
do you mind not using the rich text editor? it makes your shit impossible to edit.

(will edit this post with the edits -.-)
 
Good stuff. Here are some of my changes/corrections/suggestions:

[SET]
name: Life Orb
move 1: Seed Flare
move 2: Earth Power
move 3: Air Slash / Psychic / Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Rest / Synthesis
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Shaymin is definitely one of the most powerful forces in the UU environment, given its stats. Utilizing Shaymin's bulk, Speed, Special Attack, movepool, and ability all in one set, Life Orb Shaymin makes a great contender in the UU metagame.</p>

<p>With this set, Shaymin can basically start off by letting loose its 120 base power STAB attack; Seed Flare. If your opponent has a Pokemon that resists Seed Flare, such as Registeel, then you can start using Earth Power until you are forced to Rest, and from there you can switch out with near full HP, or stay in to get rid of Registeel. Grass-types may also switch in and threaten Shaymin, but luckily Shaymin has a couple weapons to deal with these Pokemon. Other Shaymin may switch in expecting Leech Seed, but instead they will be taking a super effective Air Slash or Hidden Power Ice. Pokemon that have a 4x resistance to Seed Flare such as Crobat and Roserade are nailed by Psychic, whereas Air Slash does not faze Crobat at all. Hidden Power Ice is the safer, but weaker option, hitting Crobat, Roserade, and other Grass-types for super effective damage, while also OHKOing Altaria as a bonus.</p>

<p>Synthesis is an option over Rest if you don't like the fact that you are essentially forced to switch after using Rest, but a full HP recovery with the sleep quickly vanishing after switching out is nothing to scoff at.</p>

<p>Since Shaymin usually lures in Registeel, who will only be dealt with quickly by a couple Earth Powers (though beware of Explosion), Pokemon that benefit from Registeel being weakened work quite well with Shaymin. Mismagius especially works well with Shaymin, because not only can it set up Calm Minds and sweep with Registeel out of the way, it can also come in on the predicted Explosion, making it harmless. The main problem Pokemon for Shaymin are bulky Grass-types, Chansey, (space before the comma originally) and bulky Flying-types, who can easily stop Shaymin from sweeping. Since bulky Roserade likes switching in on Registeel to set up Spikes, having a Registeel of your own with a trigger finger on Explosion for Roserade can be beneficial. Using Thunder Wave first to ease prediction can work, but after that be sure you are safe to explode on Roserade, hopefully letting Shaymin have an easy sweep. Pokemon such as Magmortar, Blaziken, and Nidoking work well too, because they can easily switch in on Chansey, which Shaymin also needs out of the way. With Stealth Rock in play, the bulky Flying-type Pokemon such as Crobat and Moltres will have trouble switching in to Shaymin's attacks, so keep that in mind as well.</p>

<p>Defensively, Shaymin appreciates Pokemon who can stop the Choice Scarf, or fast revenge killers that like to take out Shaymin. Crobat is a great example, because it can easily switch in on Seed Flare, and threaten to KO Shaymin with Brave Bird due to its superior Speed (the original ending to this sentence sounded awkward, but I suppose it works either way). Since Regirock and Steelix both wall Crobat, you can take this opportunity to set up Stealth Rock, or to hit Crobat with a strong Gyro Ball or Stone Edge. Moltres can come in to either stall Shaymin out of PP, or KO it with a STAB Fire-type attack, and is also really dangerous if it sets up a Substitute as you switch out. Pokemon such as Rest + Sleep Talk Milotic can best deal with the Toxic stalling "SubRoost" Moltres, as well as some common Fire-type threats that threaten Shaymin, such as Choice Scarf Magmortar.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Seed Flare
move 2: Earth Power
move 3: Air Slash / Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Psychic / Hidden Power Rock
item: Choice Specs
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With Shaymin's great movepool, Speed, and Special Attack, it makes a great Choice Specs user. Seed Flare is Shaymin's main STAB attack, which is so powerful that it has a 30% to 2HKO Chansey (with the Special Defense drop). Earth Power grants coverage of Steel-types, such as Registeel, while Air Slash and Hidden Power Ice cover other Shaymin and Tangrowth. The main advantages of using Air Slash are the flinch chance and the extra 5 base power; however, Hidden Power Ice is a safer move, because it has perfect accuracy (compared to Air Slash having 95) and hits more Pokemon for super effective damage, such as Altaria. Psychic is used to hit Crobat and the bulky Grass and Poison-types hard. (“However” seems unnecessary here) Hidden Power Rock can be used in the last slot if you opt for Air Slash, not only because it hits the previously mentioned Crobat and Altaria hard, but mainly because it OHKOes Moltres, who otherwise has an easy time walling this set. The main advantages of using Choice Specs over Life Orb are the ability to use four attacks, as well as the loss of recoil damage. Another advantage is that it has a chance to 2HKO Chansey.</p>

<p>With this set, Pokemon such as Rest + Sleep Talk Milotic at its side are even more important, because Moltres can basically come in on any attack except for Hidden Power Rock while Shaymin is locked in. Bulky walls help cushion the attacks that are sure to come when something switches into a resisted move that Shaymin is locked into, so any defensive combination of Pokemon help. Slowbro and Registeel make a nice combo, because they cover each other's weaknesses, and collectively resist everything minus Ground-type attacks, which Shaymin has covered. The Ground-type "weakness" so to speak of this defensive combo will give Shaymin an easy opportunity to come back in (the last part of this sentence was removed because the concept seems self-explanatory).</p>

[SET]
name: SubSeed
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Seed Flare / Earth Power
move 4: Air Slash / Hidden Power Ice
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This is one of Shaymin's most annoying, and eventually dangerous sets. With Shaymin's very good defensive stats, very impressive Speed, and a powerful Air Slash to hit Grass-types, a SubSeeding Shaymin can put your opponents on their heels. Being able to easily take on Shaymin's most common switch-ins, such as Registeel and Chansey, Shaymin will likely be able to force your opponent to sacrifice one of their other Pokemon to break Shaymin's Substitute. With 101 HP Substitutes, any Pokemon relying on Seismic Toss will get shut down easily.</p>

<p>Shaymin is bulky enough that a standard Registeel cannot break its Substitute without a lot of Attack EVs or Explosion, making it a great Pokemon against which to begin the Leech Seed stalling process. </p>

<p>With Shaymin causing so many switches with Leech Seed and Special Defense drops, this set works incredibly well on a stall team, where not many Pokemon have reliable recovery. Stealth Rock and Spikes support add much more depth to this set, making your opponent thinking twice about switching out of Leech Seed. Pokemon such as Omastar, Cloyster, and Roserade make great Spikes users, but especially Omastar, who lures out Ground-type attacks for Shaymin to switch into. Many Pokemon learn Stealth Rock, so as long as it gets set up reliably, that Pokemon has done a lot to help Shaymin.</p>

<p>Pokemon such as Calm Mind Mismagius and Espeon cause trouble for this Shaymin, being immune to Leech Seed and shrugging off other special attacks after a couple Calm Minds, with the added threat that they will likely sweep if not stopped immediately. Registeel is arguably the best Calm Mind counter in the game, because he resists Ghost and Psychic-type attacks, has amazing Special Defense, and can easily KO either Espeon or Mismagius with STAB Iron Head. Pokemon with Taunt, such as Crobat, give Shaymin trouble, but especially Crobat because it is faster and has U-turn, which breaks Shaymin's Substitute and gets rid of Leech Seed. A Taunt variant of Drapion can also cause trouble for this set if you opt for Seed Flare over Earth Power. Luring out Crobat is not too difficulttaking it out with a sleep-inducing or Destiny Bond lead can work wonders against Crobat, as can a lead Arcanine. However, as long as you keep Stealth Rock in play, Crobat will have a hard time switching in to even Shaymin's weak special attacks. Life Orb Roserade with Hidden Power Rock or Ice can do Crobat in as well. Drapion is easily killed off by a strong Earthquake or special attack, but be wary of Swords Dance sweeping variants, who you need a slightly more specialized counter for, such as Steelix or Regirock.</p>

[SET]
name: Swords Dance
move 1: TBA
move 2: TBA
move 3: TBA
move 4: TBA
item: Leftovers
nature: TBA
evs: TBA
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>(Eo Ut Mortus is working on this set. Here is the link: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53457)</p>

[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Seed Flare / Grass Knot
move 2: Aromatherapy
move 3: Rest / Synthesis
move 4: Leech Seed / Air Slash
item: Leftovers
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>A change of pace here, with the focus being on Defense and support rather than all out attack. As this version of Shaymin should stick around for quite some time, Grass Knot is listed as an option over Seed Flare due to issues with PP. Rest and Natural Cure work very well together, although it requires Shaymin to switch out to remove the sleep status. Aromatherapy is a rare and useful commodity which Shaymin uses quite effectively. In the last slot you can choose Leech Seed for some extra healing for Shaymin and its teammates, or Air Slash to hit other Grass-types and for the flinch chance.</p>

<p>This variant of Shaymin is helpful mainly because it can cure status, and does not drop dead at the sight of a physical attack like Chansey. Pokemon who can utilize this well are sweepers such as Blaziken and Drapion, who may switch into a weak wall, but may be hit by Thunder Wave, which renders them useless as sweepers.</p>

[Team Options]

<p>Shaymin is a great all around Pokemon, and because of this people take measures to ensure that they are not open to a Shaymin sweep. Many people carry various Shaymin counters, such as Chansey and Moltres, while having checks such as Crobat and Charizard as well. Unfortunately, the bulky Water-types, such as Milotic, who Shaymin handles easily, are often used with Shaymin counters, such as Roserade in the case of Milotic. Drapion and Blaziken are often used with Mismagius, who can avoid the Earth Power aimed at them, and proceed to set up Calm Minds.</p>

<p>For those reasons, it's recommended that Shaymin has a couple tools of its own to get passed these counters. For Pokemon such as Chansey, a strong mixed attacker can do the trick easily, by luring Chansey in with special attacks, and then hitting it hard with a physical attack. Pokemon such as Blaziken and Magmortar do this well, with their high Special Attack and Fighting moves. Magmortar has an easier time with Altaria, as most variants use Hidden Power Ice, however Blaziken can just as well use Stone Edge to take out the dragon (removed “as well”).</p>

<p>Shaymin lures out Pokemon such as Registeel, and can weaken some of your opponent's walls as well. Pokemon who benefit from having Registeel weakened include Espeon, Yanmega, and Mismagius. With Registeel down, Espeon and Mismagius are free to set up some Calm Minds and attempt a sweep. Yanmega can Substitute down to get a Petaya Berry boost, and sweep with Bug Buzz and Air Slash, with Registeel, who resists both of Yanmega's STABs, out of the way.</p>

<p>Defensively, Shaymin appreciates Pokemon that can take Brave Birds, and strong Fire-type attacks from Pokemon who attempt to revenge kill it. A great complement for Shaymin in this case is Regirock, who resists both of those attacks, and also lures Ground and Water-type attacks for Shaymin to switch into. A Rest + Sleep Talk variant of Milotic is appreciated as well, because Toxic stalling "SubRoost" Moltres can be dangerous to give a Substitute to, but Milotic can handle it fine with STAB Surfs and its ability to benefit from status.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Not much. Synthesis is available for instant recovery, but with the prevalence of Sandstorm in OU play it only heals a meager 25% with each use. Growth can be used to raise its respectable Special Attack, but that gives Shaymin "moveslot syndrome". GrassWhistle can be used as a sleep move, but the low accuracy rarely makes it worthwhile. Toxic can be effective on defensive sets.</p>

[EVs]

<p>For the sweeper sets (Choice Specs and Life Orb), maximize Special Attack and Speed with a Timid or Modest nature. A Timid nature is recommended to outspeed Pokemon such as max Speed Drapion, Roserade and Houndoom. Modest packs an extra punch though, which is always nice.</p>

<p>The SubSeed set uses maximum HP and Speed EVs to outrun more Pokemon, and to have an incredibly bulky Substitute. The defensive set has split defenses to take more hits from both ends of the attacking spectrum.</p>

<p>The Swords Dance set has rather specific EVs in order to counter many of the common threats such as Mismagius and Espeon. It has enough Attack to 2HKO most Mismagius, while being incredibly bulky on the special side with max Special Defense EVs.</p>

[Opinion]

<p>Shaymin is one of those Pokemon who holds teams together. With every stat being base 100, Shaymin not only has great offense to offer, but also great Speed and bulk. When using Shaymin, keep in mind that you should use it for its bulk, and not just focus on its high powered Seed Flare.</p>

<p>With Drapion and Roserade on so many teams, people tend to stay away from Toxic Spikes, which is why Shaymin is often used over Roserade and Venusaur as a bulky Grass-type. Shaymin is the glue for most teams, boasting the rare mono Grass-typing, which allows it to take the ever present Earthquakes, which the other part Poison-types cannot do. Shaymin is more bulky on the physical side than its fellow Grass-types, while also having more Speed backing it up. Shaymin also boasts Earth Power and Air Slash, which give Shaymin nearly perfect coverage, while the others are stuck with Sludge Bomb and Hidden Power as coverage attacks. Shaymin's biggest advantage is Seed Flare, as the other Grass-types are forced to use Leaf Storm, making them suffer a -2 Special Attack drop after the attack. However, Roserade packs a higher Special Attack stat than Shaymin, and with a Choice Scarf, it can make a much better revenge killer than Shaymin. Venusaur and Roserade also benefit from Sleep Powder, which is a very nice utility move to have.</p>

<p>Overall, Shaymin is a dangerous sweeper that boasts bulk, great Speed, amazing type coverage, as well as a strong STAB attack in Seed Flare. Shaymin has the stats to utilize these attacks, and then some.</p>

[Counters]

<p>The best way to counter a sweeping Shaymin is to find out its final coverage move alongside Seed Flare and Earth Power. However, Chansey is specially bulky enough to take almost any attack from Shaymin, and is arguably the best and safest switch-in (removed “to Shaymin”). Moltres is generally a good switch-in as well, especially since it lowers Seed Flare's PP by two each time it gets hit by one due to Pressure. Moltres needs to beware of the odd Hidden Power Rock variants however.</p>

<p>With Shaymin using Air Slash, Pokemon such as Altaria, Crobat, and Charizard can have fun switching in and taking minimal damage, as well as forcing Shaymin out with a strong super effective attack. A specially bulky Roserade can come in and threaten to KO with Sludge Bomb as well.</p>

<p>When Shaymin is using Hidden Power Ice, can still switch in (who can?) with ease, but it has much better coverage than Air Slash. However, now Shaymin is more vulerable to Grass-types, due to the lower base power of Hidden Power and the loss of the flinch chance. (you’re going to want to rephrase this paragraph because I honestly can’t understand its meaning.)</p>

<p>With Psychic, the previously mentioned Roserade cannot switch in effectively due to its high base power. This opens the door back up for Altaria however, who boasts high Special Defense.</p>

<p>The SubSeeding variant is easily stopped by any Pokemon with decent special bulk and Taunt or U-turn. Crobat makes the perfect candidate, because not only does Crobat resist Seed Flare, but it has Taunt and U-turn at its disposal.</p>

<p>Shaymin is easily revenge killed by a strong super effective attack from a Choice Scarf user such as Magmortar. Crobat and Swellow both outpace Shaymin and can KO with Brave Bird as well. A Choice Specs, or even Calm Mind Espeon can KO Shaymin with Signal Beam, while also outspeeding Shaymin.</p>
 

cim

happiness is such hard work
is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
No mention of Crobat in any of the Team Options sections when he basically rapes Shaymin alive.

The best way to beat Shaymin isn't to find out it's 3rd attack, it's to drain Seed Flare's 8 PP really.

I'd give you a "good job" but I haven't read most of it and am dead tired.
 
first set (im tired)

[SET]
name: Life Orb
move 1: Seed Flare
move 2: Earth Power
move 3: Air Slash / Psychic / Hidden Power Ice
move 4: Rest / Synthesis
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Shaymin is definitely one of the most powerful forces in the UU environment, given its all-around excellent stats. Utilizing Shaymin's bulk, Speed, Special Attack, movepool, and ability all in one set, Life Orb Shaymin makes a great contender in the UU metagame.</p>

<p>With this set, Shaymin can basically start off by letting loose 120 base power STAB attack, Seed Flare. If your opponent has a Pokemon that resists Seed Flare, such as Registeel, then you can start using Earth Power untill you are forced to Rest, and from there you can switch out with near full HP, or stay in to get rid of Registeel. Grass-types may also switch in and threaten Shaymin, but luckily Shaymin has a couple of weapons to deal with these Pokemon. Other Shaymin may switch in expecting Leech Seed, but instead they will be taking a super effective Air Slash or Hidden Power Ice. Pokemon that have a 4x resistance to Seed Flare, such as Crobat and Roserade are nailed by Psychic, whereas Air Slash does not phaze Crobat at all. Hidden Power Ice is the safer, but weaker option, hitting Crobat, Roserade, and other Grass-types for super effective damage, while also OHKOing Altaria as a bonus.</p>

<p>Synthesis is an option over Rest if you don't like the fact that you are essentially forced to switch after Rest, but a full HP recovery with the sleep quickly vanishing after switching out is nothing to scoff at.</p>

<p>Since Shaymin usually lures in Registeel, who will only be dealt with quickly by a couple of Earth Powers (though beware of Explosion), Pokemon that benefit from Registeel being weakened work quite well with Shaymin. Mismagius especially works well with Shaymin, because not only can it set up Calm Minds and sweep with Registeel out of the way, it can also come in on the predicted Explosion, making it harmless. The main problem Pokemon for Shaymin are bulky Grass-types, Chansey, and bulky Flying-types, who can easily stop Shaymin from sweeping. Since bulky Roserade likes switching in on Registeel to set up Spikes, having a Registeel of your own with a trigger finger on Explosion for Roserade can be beneficial. Using Thunder Wave first to ease prediction can work, but after that be sure you are safe to Explode on Roserade, hopefully letting Shaymin have an easy sweep. Pokemon such as Magmortar, Blaziken, and Nidoking work well too, because they can easily switch in on Chansey, which Shaymin also needs out of the way. With Stealth Rock in play, bulky Fliers such as Crobat and Moltres, will have trouble switching in to Shaymin's attacks, so keep that in mind as well.</p>

<p>Defensively, Shaymin appreciates Pokemon who can stop the Choice Scarfers and other fast revenge killers that like to take out Shaymin. Crobat is a great example, because it can easily switch in on Seed Flare, and threaten to KO Shaymin with Brave Bird since Crobat outspeeds Shaymin. Since Regirock and Steelix both wall Crobat, you can take this opportunity to set up Stealth Rock, or hit Crobat with a strong Gyro Ball or Stone Edge. Moltres can come in to either stall Shaymin out of PP or KO it with a STAB Fire-type attack, and is also really dangerous to give a Substitute if you switch out. Pokemon such as Rest + Sleep Talk Milotic can best deal with the Toxic stalling "SubRoost" Moltres, as well as some common Fire-type threats that threaten Shaymin, such as Choice Scarf Magmortar.</p>
altaria is worth mentioning a bit more if you dont carry hp ice imo, because it 4x resists seed flare and is immune to earth power, has dmeteor and fire blast and decent enough spdef.
 
Good stuff. Here are some of my changes/corrections/suggestions:
Got most of them / all of them in thanks a ton.

No mention of Crobat in any of the Team Options sections when he basically rapes Shaymin alive.

The best way to beat Shaymin isn't to find out it's 3rd attack, it's to drain Seed Flare's 8 PP really.

I'd give you a "good job" but I haven't read most of it and am dead tired.
I did mention Crobat a little bit, but you're right I should emphasize Crobat a little more.

ill add the PP thing in when I get my back from my exam (yes I have exams and have written 3 analyses).
 
Not much. Synthesis is available for instant recovery, but with the prevalence of Sandstorm in OU play it only heals a meager 25% with each use.

This is UU, right?
If HP-Rock is just for Moltres wouldn't it be set comments?
 
This is UU, right?.
IMO HP-Rock is an inferior option that only hits Moltres so I would say set comments.
I forgot to take that Synthesis part out, I got sidetracked.

Anyway, hitting Moltres and Altaria is a good enough reason for a Slash imo.
 
<p>Since Shaymin usually lures in Registeel, who will only be dealt with quickly by a couple Earth Powers (though beware of Explosion), Pokemon that benefit from Registeel being weakened work quite well with Shaymin. Mismagius especially works well with Shaymin, because not only can it set up Calm Minds and sweep with Registeel out of the way, it can also come in on the predicted Explosion, making it harmless. The main problem Pokemon for Shaymin are bulky Grass-types, Chansey, and bulky Flying-types, who can easily stop Shaymin from sweeping. Since bulky Roserade likes switching in on Shaymin to set up Spikes, having a Registeel of your own with a trigger finger on Explosion for Roserade can be beneficial. Using Thunder Wave first to ease prediction can work, but after that be sure you are safe to explode on Roserade, hopefully letting Shaymin have an easy sweep. Pokemon such as Magmortar, Blaziken, and Nidoking work well too, because they can easily switch in on Chansey, which Shaymin also needs out of the way. With Stealth Rock in play, the bulky Flying-type Pokemon such as Crobat and Moltres will have trouble switching in to Shaymin's attacks, so keep that in mind as well.</p>


I'm pretty sure that should be Shaymin and not Registeel there, otherwise the whole sentence doesn't make much sense.
 
I'm pretty sure that should be Shaymin and not Registeel there, otherwise the whole sentence doesn't make much sense.
No, Registeel cant 2HKO most Bulky Roserade, so they switch in, spike, and natural rest.

But I should switch "switching in", and "staying" so its more clear, thanks for bringing it up though.
 

Bologo

Have fun with birds and bees.
is a Contributor Alumnus
You need to put references to OU in this revamp as well. Shaymin is perfectly viable in OU, but there's absolutely no mention of it in this analysis. It's not a pokemon that plain doesn't work in OU at all, so it shouldn't be talking solely about UU. The Specs set, for instance, works incredibly well in OU.

Also, a mention of how it works in OU should be put in Opinion, and OU counters should be put in too for the Counters section.
 
You need to put references to OU in this revamp as well. Shaymin is perfectly viable in OU, but there's absolutely no mention of it in this analysis. It's not a pokemon that plain doesn't work in OU at all, so it shouldn't be talking solely about UU. The Specs set, for instance, works incredibly well in OU.

Also, a mention of how it works in OU should be put in Opinion, and OU counters should be put in too for the Counters section.
Im not saying I wont, but there are other analysis from UU Pokemon who were used a TON more than Shaymin (look at the usage stats, Shaymin was 76th, Pokemon like Crobat are like ~65th). The point is, none of these analyses talk about OU (or were asked to).

Too be honest, I have never used Shaymin in OU, so I would basically just be adding the bits in the current analysis about OU back in (as I removed them, assuming that since it was rarely used in OU, the sets shouldnt be left in).
 
Minor correction: on the life orb set, HP ice doesn't necessarily KO Altaria. If it has full HP EV's it's a less than 50% chance (without SR) and with max/max +nature it has a similar chance to survive even with SR. The defensive set on this site is always OHKO'ed with SR and never without. Min/Min is always KO'ed. I think SR is absent often enough for this to be an important distinction, though. Obviously listing the damage to every set is too specific, but you could change "OHKO's Altaria" to "OHKO's all but the most defensive Altaria after Stealth Rock".
 
The Specs set works well in OU. I don't think you should make the assumption that since you haven't seen it used in OU it doesn't work. Arguing that other more popularly used UU Pokemon don't have OU mention and "this shouldn't either" is completely irrelevant; Caelum has made a point that you shouldn't be basing whether to inlude a set or not off of comparison to another Pokemon. So, basically, I'd like to see OU mention for the attacking sets (barring Swords Dance and especially including Choice Specs). When I used it in OU I believe I ran something like Seed Flare/Earth Power/Hidden Power Ice/Rest to catch Lucario, Salamence, Heatran, Scizor, Metagross switches etc. It also does a good job in clearing a path for Calm Mind Celebi.
 
Minor correction: on the life orb set, HP ice doesn't necessarily KO Altaria. If it has full HP EV's it's a less than 50% chance (without SR) and with max/max +nature it has a similar chance to survive even with SR. The defensive set on this site is always OHKO'ed with SR and never without. Min/Min is always KO'ed. I think SR is absent often enough for this to be an important distinction, though. Obviously listing the damage to every set is too specific, but you could change "OHKO's Altaria" to "OHKO's all but the most defensive Altaria after Stealth Rock".
Well I took into acount the usage stats:


Code:
| Altaria    | SpDefense EV | None             |    69.0 |
| Altaria    | SpDefense EV | Low (50-100)     |    13.5 |
| Altaria    | SpDefense EV | Other (4)        | <   6.2 |
And logic, as well as experience, and decided that it would be a little redundant to run SpD EVs on Altaria, when it works fine off of it's resistances. Pretty much 100% of Altaria are OHKOed by HP Ice. I could change it a bit though, ill see.

The Specs set works well in OU. I don't think you should make the assumption that since you haven't seen it used in OU it doesn't work. Arguing that other more popularly used UU Pokemon don't have OU mention and "this shouldn't either" is completely irrelevant; Caelum has made a point that you shouldn't be basing whether to inlude a set or not off of comparison to another Pokemon. So, basically, I'd like to see OU mention for the attacking sets (barring Swords Dance and especially including Choice Specs). When I used it in OU I believe I ran something like Seed Flare/Earth Power/Hidden Power Ice/Rest to catch Lucario, Salamence, Heatran, Scizor, Metagross switches etc. It also does a good job in clearing a path for Calm Mind Celebi.
Right, thats why I didnt say I wont, I just think that if we are making these include OU, then other Pokemon should have to as well (for consistancy sake), no need to single me out eh? :P

However I will need a little guidance with this, I dont have nearly the same amount of experience / knowledge in OU. Ill start adding this in.
 
From the looks of it more than a third ran enough HP EV's (max and high) to survive around 50% of the time. As far as experience, I've had Altarias survive HP many times.
 
LO Modest OHKOes everything w/o SpD investment with out SR, while Timid just needs SR most of the time. Thats not reliable enough, especially when its switching into 15% from Seed Flare.
 
Why no mention of Regice when it has Clear Body, massive SpDef and STAB Ice Beam
Shaymin actually will win 1v1 most of the time due to Stealth Rock, and Regice's STAB IB doesnt even KO Shaymin. I'll mention it though I guess.
 
I've been running a Shaymin set throughout new UU. I wonder if this bulky set could be considered. I don't think it deserves a new set because it has exactly the same moves.

Shaymin @ Life Orb/Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 232 HP/24 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- Air Slash/Psychic/HP Ice
- Synthesis/Rest

This is basically a Bulky set that can take some hits. Even sludge bomb from Venusaur does around 52%. I find that this could be a more superior option when playing Bulky Offense. It can also be used to take some other type of hits better. Shaymin warrants such a threat that I figure that it doesn't need much Spd EVs when I used it(Only made enough to outspeed Adamant Honchkrow.) If you can predict right, it takes only about 36% from Crobat's U-Turn.
 
Hmm.... I guess it can go in SC. The issue is that Shaymin is then outsped by many threats, including the deadly Drapion, which it is usually a check for.
 
Hmm.... I guess it can go in SC. The issue is that Shaymin is then outsped by many threats, including the deadly Drapion, which it is usually a check for.
By adding the bulk, you get a trade off. Positives on one side and negatives on one side. But, I see a greater positives, especially if one plays bulky/support offense like I do. Paring Bulky Shaymin up with good support that can lets say check/counter Drapion or with T-Wave support, it really shines. I find that I usually use Shaymin to counter slower threats like Rhydon, Slowbro, Milotic. Knowing that it can shrug off more hits and initally go with a damagin move like Seed Flare is extremely nice. It is also nice to see something like opposing Shaymin failing to 2OHKO you at times. It absolutely is a threat to Leech Seeders as well(probably not Roserade.)
 
Im still not sure, the big loss is Roserade tbh. Roserade completely walks all over that Shaymin, Shaymin never even has a chance. Roserade is also the 3rd most used Pokemon in UU.
 

franky

aka pimpdaddyfranky, aka frankydelaghetto, aka F, aka ef
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
You might want to mention Venusaur as a counter. I pressed Ctrl + F and type in Venusaur and I didn't see anything. Venasaur can come and resist x4 resistance to Seed Flare and attempt to kill it with Sludge Bomb or use Sleep Powder.

Psychic (uncommon) + Life orb on 252 HP / 252 SpD Venusaur - (46.70% - 54.95%)
Around 2-3HKO with leftovers.

Air Slash (common) + Life Orb on 252 HP / 252 SpD Venusaur - (39.01% - 46.15%)

Sludge Bomb on 6 HP / 0 Shaymin - (56.73% - 67.25%)

I will say Venusaur is a pretty good check on Shaymin, you might want to mention that.
 
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