NP: UU - Dragonfly

[Stagnant]

Mix Doom doesn't beat Chansey 1vs1. Nor is it's purpose. He is basically a toolbox... Pursuit deals with Ghosties, SuckerPunch hits hard and has priority, Dark Pulse one shots most Slowbro and weakens Milotic, Fire Blast is for overrunning everything else... like Donphan.

Edit:

Checked the MixDoom analysis on Smogon...

~ Overheat
~ Crunch / Sucker Punch
~ Pursuit
~ Thunder Fang

Wow, who ever wrote this obviously had no experience with Houndoom in UU. >.>

 

[Bluewind]

This means that we welcome a new Pokemon in OU, Roserade!

And sadly, we say goodbye to three Pokemon: Alakazam, Rhyperior and Umbreon.

Here we go.

 

[Thund91]

So will the new pokemon be unbanned immediately or are we going to wait on Yanmega??

 

[PurpleWeezing]

I don't see any of them wreck havoc. Rhyperior won't bypass Milotic, Slowbro and similar stuff (Tangrowth, Weezing etc.) and is easily revenged by Azumarill and friends. Alakazam will have the same problem Abra has in LC - paper defenses and some special walls like Chansey and Registeel (comparable with Bronzor and Munchlax) in it's way. Umbreon is a cool addition, especially as Heal Bell is sweet.
Roserade leaving will have huge impact. As said in the stat thread I expect Qwilfish to go up, as it easily abuses Milotic for a few layers of Spikes and then blows up to kill something. Also Venusaur is ready to jump up a lot as well, be it SD with Power Whip or simply a worsened Life Orb Roserade (with way more bulk tho). This will be interesting.

edit: well, not really, forgot about Megahorn on the RP set and about how the CBer outpaces :<

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

Mismaggy@ Lefties
NP
Taunt
Shadow Ball
T-Bolt

Has been my prefered set. Taunt prevents phazing and status. Pretty much after Registeel is dead its gg.

Now you see this is where I disagree. The lack of Sub makes Missy much more vulnerable than ever, as Sucker Punch users like Honchkrow and Houndoom have a much easier time outpredicting it. Plus if Missy drops to just 80% or lower, Ambipom can come in on anything but a boosted Thunderbolt and KO easily with Pursuit. It doesn't even need to wait for a revenge-kill under most circumstances.

Though it wold be more credible to say 'after Registeel / Steelix is dead its gg against stall '.

EDIT: Ah, Umbreon's back! Never mind, for obvious reasons.

Lapras@ Lefties
Block
Perish Song
Ice Beam
Protect/ Sub

The only pokemon that Lapras actually feared (Roserade) is now OU. Even with Roserade hovering around this set averaged two kills a match with minimal team support. Lapras loves them bulky waters... no one wants to sac them.. so they lose something else.

Yeah that set can be quite effective and annoying, especially if you mispredict it. Though it does equally come with some significant risks, particularly if not using Sub. There was this one time where I switched in my Block Gastrodon and got slightly caught out with Block on the switch. Problem is, the guy decided to Perish Song as I Blocked him back, leading to us both eventually fainting. Of course it is more destructive if your opponent happens to have a Shed Shell Blocker, but the chances of that are extremely slim indeed. In fact, Chansey would be the only one I could see realistically running that combination, and even then only incidentally.

EDIT 2:

Rhyperior won't bypass Milotic, Slowbro and similar stuff

Really?!

 

[Bluewind]

+1 Life Orb Focus Blast from a Timid Alakazam vs Registeel (252 HP/156 SPD) and Chansey (0 HP/252 SPD) respectively:
553 Atk vs 412 Def & 364 HP (120 Base Power): 302 - 356 (82.97% - 97.80%)
553 Atk vs 339 Def & 641 HP (120 Base Power): 364 - 430 (56.79% - 67.08%)
Correct me if these calculations are wrong, as they don't seem to be solid counters at all

 

[Thund91]

Physically defensive Rhyperior and Specially defensive Venusaur seem to be a good defensive combo. Add something like Moltres or Slowbro to absorb strong Fighting and Ground attacks and you've got a pretty good defensive core.

 

[Mattman324]

Regice is a very underated threat. With just Max Hp and no SpDef investment it can take ANY special attack, barring Stab Fire attacks, a +2 NP LO Mismaggy does like ~40% with shadowball/ Hp, iirc. I only wish that I used it earlier.

And those are just DEFENSIVE capabilities. Regice (who is the third best special wall in the game, behind Chansey and Blissey.) has 100 base special attack, and a STAB ice attack from this thing hits like an eighteen wheeler. It also gets Thunderbolt. The only thing that can truly stop it in UU are powerful, super effective physical attacks, STAB fire attacks from the best attackers, and Toxic. You can have Resttalk to avoid Toxic.

Oh, and this pokemon has the distinction that it is one of very few pokemon who can stop Stalrein.

 

[FlareBlitz]

Alakazam and Rhyperior really do not belong in UU. Rhyperior is not at all easily walled. With Megahorn it can easily beat Tangrowth, Leafeon, Slowbro, Uxie and Claydol, while Aqua Tail lets it beat Donphan and Steelix (and also Claydoll). It also has good enough defense and Solid Rock to survive Earthquakes and Mach Punches. I believe it can also survive Azu's Aqua Jet. Much much more threatening is Alakazam. With this set: Alakazam @ Life Orb, Timid/Modest 252 S.atk 252 speed -Psychic -Focus Blast -Substitute -Calm Mind It will pretty badly screw all its counters. Pokemon attempting to switch in and revenge kill with a scarf/sucker punch will take severe damage from one of Alazakam's attacks, while Pokemon like Chansey and Registeel are ohko'd after a calm mind (assuming Modest). You can also drop CM for Energy ball and beat Slowbro/Claydoll (who otherwise &quot;wall&quot; this set by only being 2hko'd/3hko'd respectively) but then you need Fblast to hit twice against Registeel/Chansey. We thought Yanmega was broken for doing ~35% to its main counter? How about Alakazam killing its main counter? And let's not forget that, even with a Modest nature, Alakazam outruns most of the tier (tying with +base 105s I believe).

 

[d2m]

Rhyperior@Passho Berry
252 Atk/4 SpD/252 Spe
Adamant

-Rock Polish
-Swords Dance
-Earthquake
-Megahorn

Switch in after a kill or off a slow U-Turn into a resisted physical attacker like Honchkrow, RP up, SD when the bulky water they inevitably bring in uses Surf, kill everything except Wheezing with EQ/Megahorn. +2 EQ OHKO's Milotic after SR half the time, and if it's taken any other damage, it's dead either way, then you have a 1/2 HP, +2/+2 Rhyperior that shrugs off almost any priority in UU (bar Aqua Jet, but that requires them to have 2 Water types, Milotic and Azumarril, and you can easily take advantage of that), and OHKOs everyone but Wheezing and Milotic with those 2 moves at +2.

I'm gonna like this.

Flareblitz: Name 1 thing in UU that cannot break Alakazam's sub. Just don't let it set up.

 

[whistle]

yeah alakazam seems like it would rip through the current metagame (obviously the metagame will adapt though). offensive teams probably will check it with sucker punch / fake out / aqua jets while balanced and defensive teams will have to change the most. as already mentioned chansey and registeel don't really enjoy boosted focus blasts. spiritomb seems like a great counter because it's immune to psychic and focus blast and can smack alakazam around with stab attacks (including sucker punch). drapion is neutral to focus blast and signal beam (while hp ground will be next to worthless due to focus blast's availability) and can pursuit. basically the main thing is to resist its stab and be neutral or better to focus blast and maybe signal beam.

all the hype about a BL rhyperior is pretty silly imo. however, after doing a few calcs, it seems like solid rock has been somewhat underrated. max attack donphan's earthquake deals 60% on average to *no defense* rhyperior, ambipom's jolly life orbed low kick doesn't 2hko, etc. it'll definitely help rhyperior set up on physical attackers but it's still very vulnerable on the special side as well as to physical water and grass attacks.

 

[Thund91]

Rhyperior@Passho Berry
252 Atk/4 SpD/252 Spe
Adamant

-Rock Polish
-Swords Dance
-Earthquake
-Megahorn

Switch in after a kill or off a slow U-Turn into a resisted physical attacker like Honchkrow, RP up, SD when the bulky water they inevitably bring in uses Surf, kill everything except Wheezing with EQ/Megahorn. +2 EQ OHKO's Milotic after SR half the time, and if it's taken any other damage, it's dead either way, then you have a 1/2 HP, +2/+2 Rhyperior that shrugs off almost any priority in UU (bar Aqua Jet, but that requires them to have 2 Water types, Milotic and Azumarril, and you can easily take advantage of that), and OHKOs everyone but Wheezing and Milotic with those 2 moves at +2.

I'm gonna like this.

Flareblitz: Name 1 thing in UU that cannot break Alakazam's sub. Just don't let it set up.

Alakazam can sub on the switch. Are you really going to let your Blaziken/Hariyama/Weezing stay in on Zam?

 

[d2m]

Alakazam can sub on the switch. Are you really going to let your Blaziken/Hariyama/Weezing stay in on Zam?

Yep. It's one of those things that you'll have to sacrifice to make sure it doesn't sweep. Same with Yanmega and Mismagius.

To extrapolate: A lot of times Mismagius will switch into something that it outspeeds and threatens and use that to set up a Sub/NP. Once it gets that NP behind the sub, it's infinitely harder to stop than if you sacrificed what it came in on (let's say Hitmonlee for example, you kept breaking subs with SE or RS) than if you actually let it set up.

Same with Sub/Petaya Yanmega. Best to let your Psychic or Fighting type die breaking it's sub than to let it get +1 SpA +1 Spe and behind a sub.

To further, further extrapolate: Zam is going to be BL, there's no denying that, it practically guarantees a kill. The point is that if you're playing offense and come across a setup sweeper that utilizes substitute, you're better off taking the risky route by attacking and breaking the sub than you are letting it sub by switching to something that might handle it better.

 

[franky]

I expect to see some Skuntanks here.

 

[FlareBlitz]

"Name one thing that cannot break Alakazam's sub"

..okay, suppose I switch in Kazam on your Venusaur's Swords Dance or something. Sure, you could stay in and easily kill me with Seed Bomb, but not before dying horribly to psychic. So you switch. At which point I sub.
Kazam doesn't force switches with its bulk, it forces switches because it can kill things.

Edit: If you let something die to Alakazam, it already did its job.

 

[d2m]

"Name one thing that cannot break Alakazam's sub"

..okay, suppose I switch in Kazam on your Venusaur's Swords Dance or something. Sure, you could stay in and easily kill me with Seed Bomb, but not before dying horribly to psychic. So you switch. At which point I sub.
Kazam doesn't force switches with its bulk, it forces switches because it can kill things.

Edit: If you let something die to Alakazam, it already did its job.

Yep. It's one of those things that you'll have to sacrifice to make sure it doesn't sweep. Same with Yanmega and Mismagius.

To extrapolate: A lot of times Mismagius will switch into something that it outspeeds and threatens and use that to set up a Sub/NP. Once it gets that NP behind the sub, it's infinitely harder to stop than if you sacrificed what it came in on (let's say Hitmonlee for example, you kept breaking subs with SE or RS) than if you actually let it set up.

Same with Sub/Petaya Yanmega. Best to let your Psychic or Fighting type die breaking it's sub than to let it get +1 SpA +1 Spe and behind a sub.

To further, further extrapolate: Zam is going to be BL, there's no denying that, it practically guarantees a kill. The point is that if you're playing offense and come across a setup sweeper that utilizes substitute, you're better off taking the risky route by attacking and breaking the sub than you are letting it sub by switching to something that might handle it better.

 

[Thund91]

"Name one thing that cannot break Alakazam's sub"

..okay, suppose I switch in Kazam on your Venusaur's Swords Dance or something. Sure, you could stay in and easily kill me with Seed Bomb, but not before dying horribly to psychic. So you switch. At which point I sub.
Kazam doesn't force switches with its bulk, it forces switches because it can kill things.

It can also force switches with the fastest Encore in the game. I think an Encore set could actually be deadly. it can Encore SubPlot Missy/Stealth Rockers/Subseeders/Stallrein and all that good stuff.

 

[d2m]

It can also force switches with the fastest Encore in the game. I think an Encore set could actually be deadly. it can Encore SubPlot Missy/Stealth Rockers/Subseeders/Stallrein and all that good stuff.

It's great, but it forces you to lose type coverage on a sweeping set. Either that or lose Sub which is rather essential for all the Sucker Punch users (Absol, Honchkrow, Houndoom, Dugtrio, Hitmonlee, Hitmontop, and Toxicroak just to name those that carry it a decent amount of the time).

 

[Thund91]

It's great, but it forces you to lose type coverage on a sweeping set. Either that or lose Sub which is rather essential for all the Sucker Punch users (Absol, Honchkrow, Houndoom, Dugtrio, Hitmonlee, Hitmontop, and Toxicroak just to name those that carry it a decent amount of the time).

Well an Encore Zam isn't really gonna be a sweeper, it's more of like a hard hitting utility pokemon that gets your team free switches.

You can also do Calm Mind/Encore/Psychic/Signal Beam(Focus Blast) too. Just Calm Mind when Honch Sucker Punches and Encore it. You can then continue Calm Minding as he wastes his measly 8 PP/switches. The options with Alakazam are kind of endless. I guess we'll never really know until he gets unbanned. Damn i'm excited hehe. (:

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

You can also do Calm Mind/Encore/Psychic/Signal Beam(Focus Blast) too. Just Calm Mind when Honch Sucker Punches and Encore it. You can then continue Calm Minding as he wastes his measly 8 PP/switches. The options with Alakazam are kind of endless. I guess we'll never really know until he gets unbanned. Damn i'm excited hehe. (:

Only problem with that is that Honchkrow won't need to Sucker Punch unless somewhat weakened, as Alakazam can't come close to OHKOing it. Honchkrow will most likely just Brave Bird / Pursuit and force your hand.

Alakazam will sure be interesting, but the abundance of priority that already exists in UU will put a dampener on it somewhat. That and Pursuit Spiritomb will always be the bane of its very existence, and will surely be out in force sometime soon. No 'jump'ing out of that one like Espeon, to pardon the expression.

 

[A.P.]

Isn't the entire point of MixDoom so that Chansey doesn't counter it? Near-dead or not shouldn't make much of a difference. Also, there's four other members of the team.

You mentioned Reflect on Rotom, so I brought up the fact that that doesn't help Chansey run from MixDoom.

I expect to see some Skuntanks here.

Honestly, Drapion, Honchkrow, Absol, and Spiritomb are more than enough - though Skuntank may rise for the simple reason that Drapion doesn't have Sucker Punch. Not significantly, though.

Anyone see Zam + Maggy double-teaming on the rest of the meta?

When are the changes going to be implemented?

 

[Flamewheeler]

Omg! I'm going to miss roserade =(. She is just soooooo much better than the other sleepers in the tier imo. These new additions should be interesting though. I'd rather not get too excited and then just be let down like with the addition of duggy. =/

 

[A.P.]

They won't be as non-tumultous, without a doubt.

I say this because with already a lack of Rosie, the metagame is already undergoing a major shift.

And Zam and Rhyperior have more attacking potential than Duggy, without a doubt.

 

[Wind of Portent]

Yeah, my offense teams are really going to miss the combination of Roserade's ability to force switches and (decently) fast sleep.

 

[JabbaTheGriffin]

Yanmega vote is up

qualified voters:

Erazor
Haunter
whistle
petrie911
Wind of Portent
Eo Ut Mortus
Huntofthelion
Flashstorm1
Doodlefish
Iluvtogekiss

if you were rejected and want reasoning then pm me (i'll probably send it out no matter what but i'm sure at least a few of you know why you didn't get accepted)

p.s. i was very disappointed in the quality of these paragraphs