Infernape [QC: 1/4]

[Kejmur]

Am I sticking to the stipulation that MixApe is the only set listed?

I think I would consider Choice Band set. It's pretty fast and quick U-Turn is always nice to have (something that Terrakion doesn't have) and Flare Blitz also allow it to beat stuff like Skarmory which many physical attackers struggle with, so IMO he's not really outclassed by anything. He can also switch on some resisted hits, although he is still kind of frail. For me it was ok as a different pick for VoltTurn teams.

But yeah, I'm not QC member, so you may ignore this if you feel like it.

 

[Ash Borer]

Imo CB is just a waste of Infernape's best merits; its dual STAB and movepool. Defensive cores that rely on Heatran, Chesnaught, AEgislash, Chansey, Quagsire, Skarmory, Gliscor and more can find themselves in a serious backpedaling situation against an unchoiced ape as it can have the tools to outright kill all these pokemon. With a CB the initiative of the ape user is far lesser.

It's frail and hard to bring into battle, when you get it in, you want it to persist and hassle the opposing team. Infernape is one of those pokemon that the opponent's defense usually cant predict around, just like Life Orb Greninja. You'll notice specs is not listed anywhere with Greninja either.

 

[QuickBH]

CB Ape is pretty decent imo due to the fact that it can scare out the threats that MixApe beats (minus Aegislash) and always has room U-Turn which is a really good without constantly hurting itself which is a nice niche to exploit on Infernape while having decent priority with Mach Punch idk.

 

[yoman5]

What happened to focus sash infernape? especially as a wallbreaker that doubles as a revenge killer (less relevant now that mega Luc and genesect have been banned, but still great vs kyub and SD aegislash).

hasty/naive
mach punch
flare blitz
overheat
close combat

breaks stalls really well and can stop some common threats with the focus sash intact. also can switch into will-o-wisp and outspeeds and KOs a specially defensive rotom below ~65%, which most will O wisp rotoms are since they rely on the burn for defense.

 

[TheTommy10200]

What happened to focus sash infernape? especially as a wallbreaker that doubles as a revenge killer (less relevant now that mega Luc and genesect have been banned, but still great vs kyub and SD aegislash).

hasty/naive
mach punch
flare blitz
overheat
close combat

breaks stalls really well and can stop some common threats with the focus sash intact. also can switch into will-o-wisp and outspeeds and KOs a specially defensive rotom below ~65%, which most will O wisp rotoms are since they rely on the burn for defense.

How is this in any way competitively viable? The main use of Focus Sash Infernape is to get a quick flinch to break sashes or sturdy or stall out time with damage and to get up Stealth Rocks. Oh... and uh why do you have Flare Blitz on a sashed Infernape? That and Mach Punch which is not as viable as it use to be since now ESpeed Lucario gets to plus 2 priority ever since a few gens ago even though Mega Luc is banned now. Sashed SR lead Infernape though is good still, just most leads are taking a more offensive approach you will have to be extra careful like lead Greninja.

 

[Hibiki]

I haven't had anything to update for a while. I've stuck to the one set as suggested and I'm not seeing what else I could be adding. Most other mentionable sets (past or present) are in OO that will be expanded upon during write up so if what I have right now can get picked at or things pointed out, it would be lovely.

I'm not trying to sound impatient, just trying to quash repeated discussions.

 

[yoman5]

I got to 2k on ladder before bans with that infernape, overheat is more than enough to ohko mega luc, the flare blitz is for other things or just to hit hard later if sash is broken, as it's a strong stab, and can even be used post-sash to sac and bring something else in cleanly

 

[QuickBH]

I got to 2k on ladder before bans with that infernape, overheat is more than enough to ohko mega luc, the flare blitz is for other things or just to hit hard later if sash is broken, as it's a strong stab, and can even be used post-sash to sac and bring something else in cleanly

Sash is simply unreliable and counter-intuitive with Flare Blitz, even E-Belt is better than no item which is basically what Sash is. Also, Mega Luke is irrelevant to Ape's CURRENT state as he is now banned, and of course he OHKO's Lucario lol.

 

[Selflessly]

Wouldn't Expert Belt be a good alternative to LO considering thats a lot of recoil and damage to such a fragile mon or does it stop a lot of wanted ohkos/2hkos?

 

[Bravadorado]

Is CritApe no longer a consideration? Blaze Kick/Shadow Claw/Stone Edge/Focus Energy? Set up with Focus Energy and every attack will be a critical hit. Similar to Kingdra except faster and stronger. You trade the Sniper ability for a LO (You don't need Scope lens since all 3 attacks have High Crit Ratio). So you lose 20% damage and the moves aren't quite as strong as Kingdra's (In terms of BP) plus you have LO recoil and less neutral coverage, but the tradeoff gives you 13 more attack and 23 more speed and more SE coverage.

I think it's at least worth consideration.

 

[Unowninator]

Is CritApe no longer a consideration? Blaze Kick/Shadow Claw/Stone Edge/Focus Energy? Set up with Focus Energy and every attack will be a critical hit. Similar to Kingdra except faster and stronger. You trade the Sniper ability for a LO (You don't need Scope lens since all 3 attacks have High Crit Ratio). So you lose 20% damage and the moves aren't quite as strong as Kingdra's (In terms of BP) plus you have LO recoil and less neutral coverage, but the tradeoff gives you 13 more attack and 23 more speed and more SE coverage.

I think it's at least worth consideration.

Critical hits only do 50% extra damage now, so Swords Dance would be stronger.

 

[Hibiki]

Is CritApe no longer a consideration? Blaze Kick/Shadow Claw/Stone Edge/Focus Energy? Set up with Focus Energy and every attack will be a critical hit. Similar to Kingdra except faster and stronger. You trade the Sniper ability for a LO (You don't need Scope lens since all 3 attacks have High Crit Ratio). So you lose 20% damage and the moves aren't quite as strong as Kingdra's (In terms of BP) plus you have LO recoil and less neutral coverage, but the tradeoff gives you 13 more attack and 23 more speed and more SE coverage.

I think it's at least worth consideration.

Crirdra only works because of Sniper and Draco Meteor.

 

[Disconnectedamilliontimes]

Ok did not see this soooo yeah.

(Intro)
Infernape, is put simply, outclassed in terms of stats. What once were legendary mixed offensive stats in DW OU are now, well, average. Hope is not lost for this blazing ape: there is one thing infernape has that nothing in OU has: Close Combat, U-Turn, and mixed coverage all together with a nice speed stat. This makes Infernape a deadly cleaner, when threats like Dragonite (when Infernape has no Stone Edge or HP Ice), Mega Charizard Y (Infernape without Stone Edge), Garchomp (Without HP Ice), Landorus-T(without HP Ice) (Overheat will never KO), Full HP Hippowdon, Full HP Mandibuzz, etc. and checks like Alakazam, Espeon, and Latios are removed, Infernape has the ability to just rip through weakened 'mons with its coverage. When normal special cleaners are walled by a late-game Blissey/Chansey, Infernape can just tear open pink blobs with Close Combat and dandy fairies not with Huge Power are mutilated with Gunk Shot (yeah, it actually learns it <3). And while a physical cleaner would stand walled against Hippowdon and Mandibuzz, when both mons are at risk when at below 50% (Overheat Cleans em). Even better, Infernape resists Bulllet Punch, Sucker Punch, AND Ice Shard. Infernape even learns moves like Encore, Endeavor, Fake Out, Stealth Rock, Taunt, Toxic, WoW so it can potentially run a half support set/lead. Even then, Infernape has other Attacking Options like Shadow Claw, Earthquake, Thunder Punch (+Iron Fist), Mach Punch & Vacuum Wave, Stone Edge, Gunk Shot/Poison Jab, and Grass Knot, all which are effective options to cover threats your team needs to cover. All in all, this monkey is not to be underestimated and is still very much viable in the intense OU environment, but, to succeed, must be played smartly.
(intro end)

Yeah basically states why Infernape is not "bad". It just isn't super bad because it can't just SD and kill everything: You need thinking, prediction, and the guts to use Infernape. Very much like how monkeys/humans are like: I wonder?

 

[Hibiki]

I haven't been bugging or bumping about QC checks because I understand there's a priority list and Infernape just isn't that important. However, with the advent of the strategy dex coming upon us, should this be hurried along? It's been open to QC checks for weeks.

edit: more importantly is infernape even ou any more idk where the new 1760 tiering stats are

 

[QuickBH]

I haven't been bugging or bumping about QC checks because I understand there's a priority list and Infernape just isn't that important. However, with the advent of the strategy dex coming upon us, should this be hurried along? It's been open to QC checks for weeks.

edit: more importantly is infernape even ou any more idk where the new 1760 tiering stats are

Yeah he is, glad and not so glad. Glad because he still is viable in OU. (Especially with Zard Y atm) Bad news because my favorite mon won't be able to be used in another tier but meh stature matters and I don't play enough UU to really care.

CB and mixed Ape are the best/viable sets imo.

 

[Hibiki]

Yeah he is, glad and not so glad. Glad because he still is viable in OU. (Especially with Zard Y atm) Bad news because my favorite mon won't be able to be used in another tier but meh stature matters and I don't play enough UU to really care.
CB and mixed Ape are the best/viable sets imo.

As per QC I'll be keeping the only listed set as MixApe, with most other sets listed in OO.
Jukain alexwolf , you guys had pretty solid input, are there any changes to make? Again, sorry if Infernape is low priority.

edit: been a while since I updated it, forgot about the MLuke/Gene changes. Thanks Purple.

 

[PurpleCordial]

You still mention MLuke in the Mach Punch section

 

[Swamp Link]

Along with Terrakion in the OP, mention Talonflame as a big competitor as a fast Fire-type. It basically invalidated sets like the Scarf set that Infernape used to be able to run competently.

 

[Hibiki]

Along with Terrakion in the OP, mention Talonflame as a big competitor as a fast Fire-type. It basically invalidated sets like the Scarf set that Infernape used to be able to run competently.

Done.

 

[alexwolf]

I would slash ThunderPunch after HP Ice. With the EVs you have now, Fire Blast always 2HKOes Landorus-T and Gliscor after SR, and without Hidden Power Ice you can opt to use Mach Punch or U-turn alongside ThunderPunch, which makes Infernape harder to wall and give it more overall utility.

Also, in the overview, mention that it's not Terrakion, but Keldeo that is giving to Infernape a lot of competition. One of the biggest reasons to use a fast Fighting-type is to have a check to Bisharp, and Keldeo takes this role way better, while also being harder to wall and easier to use. Infernape has few advantages over Keldeo, namely not struggling vs Grass-types and access to Mach Punch and U-turn, so make sure to stress those.

Add Mega Tyranitar and Mega Gyarados as targets of Mach Punch.

Do those and consider it

QC APPROVED 1/3

 

[Hibiki]

I would slash ThunderPunch after HP Ice. With the EVs you have now, Fire Blast always 2HKOes Landorus-T and Gliscor after SR, and without Hidden Power Ice you can opt to use Mach Punch or U-turn alongside ThunderPunch, which makes Infernape harder to wall and give it more overall utility.

Also, in the overview, mention that it's not Terrakion, but Keldeo that is giving to Infernape a lot of competition. One of the biggest reasons to use a fast Fighting-type is to have a check to Bisharp, and Keldeo takes this role way better, while also being harder to wall and easier to use. Infernape has few advantages over Keldeo, namely not struggling vs Grass-types and access to Mach Punch and U-turn, so make sure to stress those.

Add Mega Tyranitar and Mega Gyarados as targets of Mach Punch.

Do those and consider it

QC APPROVED 1/3

All done I believe.

 

[Ash Borer]

Hibiki Your taste in idols is exemplary, lets work on this shall we?

MixApe
########
name: MixApe
move 1: Flare Blitz / Fire Blast
move 2: Close Combat
move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Thunder Punch
move 4: Thunder Punch / U-turn / Mach Punch
ability: Iron Fist / Blaze
item: Life Orb
evs: 212 Atk / 44 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Naive


Moves
========

• Close Combat and Flare Blitz are strong STABs with good coverage.
• Flare Blitz has more power, while Fire Blast is an option if you don't like recoil, and want to do more damage to physically defensive stuff like Skarmory or Forretress. It also prevents King's Shield from causing an Attack drop. Overheat is also more likely to OHKO Aegislash but can leave you open to stuff like Dragonite setting up on you.
• Fire Blast also 2HKOs Lando-T and Gliscor after SR.
• HP Ice is useful for Lando-T, also hits Garchomp, Dragonite and Gliscor the hardest.
• SE Thunder Punch with Iron Fist boost hits marginally harder than neutral STAB. Targets include Gyarados before Mega Evolving, Jellicent, Starmie and Tentacruel, while being best move for Mandibuzz and Keldeo.
• U-turn allows Infernape to scout switch ins and offers a lot of utility.
• Mach Punch has very useful to revenge kill threats like +1 Mega Gyarados, +1 Mega Tyranitar and SD Bisharp, while preventing a speed tie with Terrakion & other 108s.
• HP Grass is an option for Rotom-W, and Grass Knot for other waters and Hippowdon.

Ok so, this needs a little bit of fixing. Firstly, as we have noted Fire Blast works over Lando and Gliscor, HP ice is nice for that 100% accuracy and greater damage on them, but it's not totally necessary as the very first slot. However to me Thunderpunch is very, very important. The ability to hit Azumarill and Gyarados for big damage is imperative, so im going to want it deslashed with hidden power ice.

Moving on U-turn should be dropped entirely. It only actually hits the lati twins which is alright but in the same vein as Greninja it forfeits too much coverage, and you end up just doing more damage to yourself than anything else. As U-turn is going to be stuffed into other options add some pursuit trappers to team options, the lati twins are easy to Pursuit trap with Tyranitar, Bisharp, AEgis, Scizor, Escavalier and even more, lol. Mach Punch is definitely good, it helps infernape's match up offensive teams and can help patch up mega Gyara, Bisharp, and mega Ttar weaknesses teams might have so it's going to remain a slash. HP ice is also neat because Dragonite is a bitch, and it does damage to the lati twins if you need it. Also hitting other 4X targets is nice so it will remain a slash. The mention of HP grass should be dropped for Grass Knot. Rotom is already 2hko'd by Close Combat, your strongest move, so Grass Knot has no use, however being able to easily bypass Quagsire and Hippowdon is very useful to infernape!

So I feel as if the slashes should look as such

MixApe
########
name: MixApe
move 1: Flare Blitz / Fire Blast
move 2: Close Combat
move 3: Thunder Punch
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Grass Knot / Mach Punch
ability: Iron Fist
item: Life Orb
evs: 212 Atk / 44 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Naive

I was wondering which Fire Move should be slashed first so I made a handy comparison here, still not sure which to use.

Hide

Pros of Fire Blast
- Ignores Intimidate
- No Recoil
- Ignores King's Shield
- Necessary if not running hp ice to beat up on Lando / Gliscor
- Bypasses MAndibuzz more easily though it doesnt that much more than thunderpunch with current spread..

Pros of Flare Blitz
- Lets you by pass clefable and sylveon much easier
- Lets you bypass Venusaur easier
- Perfect Accuracy
- Stronger in General
- Ignores Assault Vests

As for usage tips they need a bit of work, you dont need to compare it to Keldeo there. Just explain how to use mix ape. It's generally get it in for free because hp is precious whether that be on the revenge, on a double switch, on a recovery move switch in or a pivot. Then start blowing shit up. Detail a bit on when is the right time to predict a switch and when is the wrong time, and detail a bit on when its ideal to get infernape in (Hint: it's a wall breaker so mid game is about right).

Team options also need some help. Hazard stacking is really helpful to infernape, mention some good ones like Lando.

C&C looks ok but

212 Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 195-230 (54.1 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO <----- not a counter

so, make these changes and Ill stamp this baby. Also check the sticky at the top of the forum, QC policy has changed, we now require 4 stamps in total and 3 before write up, so after this it will be QC 2/4

 

[QuickBH]

I'm not QC, but you should probably say that if you're running Flare Blitz on Ape you should mention that Mach Punch is not an option, as you would be going all physical and thus unable to break through Gliscor/Lando-T with HP Ice or Hippo if running Grass Knot. Ash Borer kind of mentions that, but I just felt like that needed to be emphasized.

 

[alexwolf]

As for usage tips they need a bit of work, you dont need to compare it to Keldeo there.

True, this should happen in the Overview. Also, seeing as Mach Punch is really important to differentiate Infernape from Keldeo, it could be useful to slash it first. And of course if you do this, slash Fire Blast first, as you need it to deal meaningful damage to Landorus-T and Gliscor.

 

[Ash Borer]

I wouldnt say it's that similar to Keldeo as it has a fairly differnt movepool, however Mach Punch is quite useful in this meta and HP ice / GK are more luxuries than necessary moves.

MixApe
########
name: MixApe
move 1: Fire Blast / Flre Blitz
move 2: Close Combat
move 3: Thunder Punch
move 4: Mach Punch / Hidden Power Ice / Grass Knot
ability: Iron Fist
item: Life Orb
evs: 212 Atk / 44 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Naive

is the final set