Genesect [QC: 1/3]

[Nysyr]

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Why is this relevant? No one said anything about using Assault Vest Genesect to take hits from Heatran. This is why you use Assault Vest Genesect:

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Genesect: 165-195 (58.3 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-2 252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Genesect: 83-98 (29.3 - 34.6%) -- 7.1% chance to 3HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Genesect: 111-131 (39.2 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Normally, Choice Specs Latios has a small shot at 2HKOing Genesect with two consecutive Draco Meteors, and Stealth Rock guarantees the KO. With the Assault Vest, Genesect can switch into Draco Meteor pretty easily and immediately put the opponent in a bad position with U-turn: they either lose their Latios or they switch out, something else takes some damage from U-turn, and they lose the momentum. That isn't the only example, either. Mega Alakazam can normally KO Genesect with Focus Blast followed by Shadow Ball, but with Assault Vest, Genesect is only 2HKOed by Focus Blast 27% of the time even after Stealth Rock (factoring in Focus Blast's accuracy, that is). Mega Gardevoir will normally almost always 2HKO Genesect with Hyper Voice with Stealth Rock down, but with Assault Vest, Genesect has a small chance to avoid even a 3HKO. Gengar needs a Life Orb just to have a measly 0.4% chance to 2HKO Assault Vest Genesect with Shadow Ball, whereas a Black Sludge variant would normally 2HKO 91.8% of the time if Genesect wasn't holding an Assault Vest. These are the sorts of Pokemon that Genesect pivots well against, and it does so because of its solid defensive typing, good Assault Vest-boosted special bulk, great coverage, and STAB U-turn. Even if it doesn't deserve a slash, don't knock it just because it can't take a Lava Plume from Heatran of all things.

1. CSpecs Latios is never used, and switching in on it is a bad idea, they are LO.
2. Switching Genesect into moves is a horrible idea, always.
3. You aren't touching a sub disable gengar with special attacks at +0

Focus sash genesect is a counter lead, and designed to score suprised KOs where Scarf/Banded can't. The fire moves that genesect worry about move are OHKO's even with AV, or are physical. You will see Sash Genesect in SPL for that very reason, being able to make clutch plays against stuff like lead Deo-s, revenging a Mega Pinsir that got out of control, even Mega Lucario at +2.

Genesect is not a pivot, its a revenge killer and a lead. Aegislash is a pivot, not genesect.

 

[Ash Borer]

Genesect is NOT a revenge killer and a lead. Genesect is fully capable of cleaning, sweeping, wall breaking, and in this case acting as a pivot. With AV it can excel in just another role..

 

[Agent Gibbs]

1. CSpecs Latios is never used, and switching in on it is a bad idea, they are LO.

Please look up the facts before you make claims like this.

Choice Specs 33.000%
Life Orb 29.921%

These are the moveset stats for Latios from last month, which show that Choice Specs is not only not "never used," it's used more than Life Orb. Also:

Hidden Power Fire 19.953%

HP Fire, the one offensive move Latios might carry that actually threatens Assault Vest Genesect, is one of the least common coverage moves it caries. Not only that, but:

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Genesect: 96-113 (33.9 - 39.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-2 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Genesect: 120-146 (42.4 - 51.5%) -- 2.7% chance to 2HKO

If Genesect comes in on Draco Meteor (Latios's most spammable attack), it will still beat a Life Orb Latios with HP Fire 1-on-1, bar a small chance of losing if it switched in on Stealth Rock. Of course, seeing the Life Orb recoil gives away the set and gives you a free switch to just about anything that can handle a piss weak -2 HP Fire. This is what it means to be a pivot, and Assault Vest Genesect does this to a lot more Pokemon than just Latios.

Genesect is not a pivot, its a revenge killer and a lead. Aegislash is a pivot, not genesect.

You do realize that the role a Pokemon takes is heavily dependent on the set, right? For instance, Shift Gear Genesect is not a revenge killer nor a lead. It's a setup sweeper. Choice Band and Choice Specs sets are not revenge killers or dedicated leads either. They are wallbreakers and general hard-hitters designed to punch holes in teams. The all out attackers sets lacking Focus Sash also are not revenge killers nor dedicated leads. They are a different sort of wallbreaker, and depending on the item, they can also function as lures. Assault Vest Genesect does what no other Genesect set can do, and that's pivot into a handful of special attackers with its great resistances and good special bulk (factoring in the Assault Vest boost). You can't just sum up all Genesect sets into one or two categories and say, "Genesect is only X and Y, but never Z," because that's just oversimplifying one of the most versatile Pokemon in the metagame.

 

[Nysyr]

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Please look up the facts before you make claims like this.

Choice Specs 33.000%
Life Orb 29.921%

These are the moveset stats for Latios from last month, which show that Choice Specs is not only not "never used," it's used more than Life Orb. Also:

Hidden Power Fire 19.953%

HP Fire, the one offensive move Latios might carry that actually threatens Assault Vest Genesect, is one of the least common coverage moves it caries. Not only that, but:

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Genesect: 96-113 (33.9 - 39.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-2 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Genesect: 120-146 (42.4 - 51.5%) -- 2.7% chance to 2HKO

If Genesect comes in on Draco Meteor (Latios's most spammable attack), it will still beat a Life Orb Latios with HP Fire 1-on-1, bar a small chance of losing if it switched in on Stealth Rock. Of course, seeing the Life Orb recoil gives away the set and gives you a free switch to just about anything that can handle a piss weak -2 HP Fire. This is what it means to be a pivot, and Assault Vest Genesect does this to a lot more Pokemon than just Latios.



You do realize that the role a Pokemon takes is heavily dependent on the set, right? For instance, Shift Gear Genesect is not a revenge killer nor a lead. It's a setup sweeper. Choice Band and Choice Specs sets are not revenge killers or dedicated leads either. They are wallbreakers and general hard-hitters designed to punch holes in teams. The all out attackers sets lacking Focus Sash also are not revenge killers nor dedicated leads. They are a different sort of wallbreaker, and depending on the item, they can also function as lures. Assault Vest Genesect does what no other Genesect set can do, and that's pivot into a handful of special attackers with its great resistances and good special bulk (factoring in the Assault Vest boost). You can't just sum up all Genesect sets into one or two categories and say, "Genesect is only X and Y, but never Z," because that's just oversimplifying one of the most versatile Pokemon in the metagame.

I'm speaking from my experience in both watching and playing at the top 100 in the bank and ou ladder, with around 800 matches spectated + played.

The sets you see are not pulled from strictly the "1850 stats," and if you were to go by usage for previous months you would think SpDef Rotom-W is the go to set. It isn't.

I never said It couldn't be those things, but the main reason to put it on your team is indeed to revenge kill, with the exception of SG Genesect (if banded didn't get extremespeed for clutch revenges do you think it would ever be used?). Leading with Genesect is probably only behind Rotom-W, and AV has no business being a lead set. Legitimately come up with a situation where Switching a Genesect with AV into a move would be beneficial at all (or would even do it better than scarf), otherwise it is entirely theorymon. Sash Genesect has documented usage, whereas AV is all theory.

 

[Jukain]

AV has been tested by various people in this thread, including a QC member who has positive comments on it. Pokemon are not locked into specific roles, and often can fill numerous. The only thing that limits Genesect from being a pivot is the fact that you're saying it does this and this, and only these two things, and thus cannot do anything else.

Usage statistics may not be entirely on point in terms of viability and what 'should' be used, but what other source of data is there? If almost a third of Latios run Choice Specs, you'd best be prepared for it to run Choice Specs. It could be the worst set in the world, but as long as it commonly runs Choice Specs, it is relevant.

 

[Nysyr]

AV has been tested by various people in this thread, including a QC member who has positive comments on it. Pokemon are not locked into specific roles, and often can fill numerous. The only thing that limits Genesect from being a pivot is the fact that you're saying it does this and this, and only these two things, and thus cannot do anything else.

Usage statistics may not be entirely on point in terms of viability and what 'should' be used, but what other source of data is there? If almost a third of Latios run Choice Specs, you'd best be prepared for it to run Choice Specs. It could be the worst set in the world, but as long as it commonly runs Choice Specs, it is relevant.

The issue is what good does switching into a Draco do for you? You switch in, then what? U-turn? They can tell from the damage rolls right away you are AV, and no longer need to switch it out if you ever bring it back in and you are in KO range. Once in all they do is switch out to their fool proof Genesect counter, or something that doesn't care remotely for it. You might as well be using an AV Escav, or AV/Megazor, which could at least pursuit trap.

Could you use it as a Draco sponge? Sure, but you are better off using something meant to do it, like Ttar or Aegislash. If the sole purpose is to take a Draco Meteor, your team is in some dire straights.

 

[Agent Gibbs]

Dude, you're completely missing the point. Latios is just a worse case scenario example to show how well Assault Vest Genesect can take a Draco Meteor from one of the most powerful users of the move in the game. You don't use Assault Vest Genesect just to take a few special hits. You use it for Genesect's expansive movepool, access to STAB U-turn, great resistances, great offenses, and fantastic offensive ability in Download combined with the fact that it can tank special hits far better than it ever could before. Comparing it to stuff like Tyranitar, Aegislash, or Escavalier is silly because none of these Pokemon have Genesect's speed, movepool, combined offensive stats, ability, or U-turn. They don't do what Assault Vest Genesect does.

I started using Assault Vest Genesect ~3 weeks ago and have been impressed by it, and as Jukain mentioned, a few others have done the same. Please stop theorymonning and actually try the set before you dismiss it.

 

[Kejmur]

Dude, you're completely missing the point. Latios is just a worse case scenario example to show how well Assault Vest Genesect can take a Draco Meteor from one of the most powerful users of the move in the game. You don't use Assault Vest Genesect just to take a few special hits. You use it for Genesect's expansive movepool, access to STAB U-turn, great resistances, great offenses, and fantastic offensive ability in Download combined with the fact that it can tank special hits far better than it ever could before. Comparing it to stuff like Tyranitar, Aegislash, or Escavalier is silly because none of these Pokemon have Genesect's speed, movepool, combined offensive stats, ability, or U-turn. They don't do what Assault Vest Genesect does.

I started using Assault Vest Genesect ~3 weeks ago and have been impressed by it, and as Jukain mentioned, a few others have done the same. Please stop theorymonning and actually try the set before you dismiss it.

Also you can't ignore that Steel/Bug is actually a typing with few good resistances (Well lack of Dark and Ghost resistances kind of suck now, but still 71/95 bulk with AV on special side is actually really good so you can easily take some neutral hit[s) as well if needed and on topic of Dark and Ghost moves they have low BP so you can still take those in most cases). So yep, as offensive beefy pivot it sure works. I don't know why would someone even compare it to Tyranitar or Aegislash. Tyranitar is beefy, slow tank with bad defensive typing, but ridiculous bulk on special side. But his lack of speed and huge amount of nasty weaknesses means that he's in trouble against many teams, mostly those offensive ones. Much higher speed, lack of nasty weaknesses (ONLY fire, which is GREAT news for something with good special bulk like AV Genesect) means that he should find those turns to easily get in without many problems. Also Download means that not only you are beefy, but you are dangerous offensive presence, which sounds perfect for something like bulky offense which appreciates both bulk and power on their mons. Also your much higher speed means that you actually have the ability to outspeed some dangerous Pokemon and some annoying walls, against which Tyranitar may struggle if they carry certain moves/movepools/have higher base speed. And while Aegislash is indeed bulkier and can hit really hard as well, his lack of speed can be a problem as well. Also his offensive movepool when compared to Genesect (especially on special side) is just worse and out Space Bug has good SE coverage, so he hits higher amount of targets harder.

I still don't understand comparing those two to Genesect, when they are clearly different and work better/worse in different situations.

 

[MagikaripIsOP]

Shouln't naive be slashed first because who would switch genesect into another genesect?

 

[Afti]

Running a non-shiny/Hasty Genesect makes you much more predictable because it rules out half of Genesect's potential sets.

 

[Hibiki]

Shiny + Naive is fine though. If anything it means you could surprise someone by living a Mach Punch or something.

 

[Afti]

You can't run Shiny+Naive because the only shiny Genesect are the Hasty Japanese ones.

You always run Shiny because Genesect benefits tremendously from being able to keep the opponent guessing, and you run Hasty over Naive because it's the only way to run Shiny.

 

[Hibiki]

Is it not technically possible to get Shiny Naive the same way you get Non-Shiny (without event moves)? I'm just guessing, sorry if it's not.

Edit: I guess I should do more research

 

[Afti]

Unless a wonder card Pokémon is specifically made shiny, it'll reject any PID that would result in the Pokémon being shiny.

Which, again, is why Genesect can't just run Naive.

 

[Fuzznip]

RIP in piece