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DOU Community Create-a-Team! Slot #5 DISCUSSIN'
- Thread starter Idyll
- Start date
Je suis n1n1.
VOTING TIME! To vote, just post in bold one of the following:
lolbro's Bulky Landorus-T
Meloettaaa's Scarf Hydreigon
Derivative's Lum DD Tyranitar
BlueSkiddoWeCanToo's Standard Bulky Thundurus
n1n1's 3 Attacks Swampert
Roxer's Safety Goggles + 3 Attacks Zapdos
Bughouse's Safety Goggles + Stealth Rock Heatran
CorruptedOmega7's Sub + Flamethrower Heatran
Deadline of voting's on Sunday GMT noon ;0
VOTING TIME! To vote, just post in bold one of the following:
lolbro's Bulky Landorus-T
Meloettaaa's Scarf Hydreigon
Derivative's Lum DD Tyranitar
BlueSkiddoWeCanToo's Standard Bulky Thundurus
n1n1's 3 Attacks Swampert
Roxer's Safety Goggles + 3 Attacks Zapdos
Bughouse's Safety Goggles + Stealth Rock Heatran
CorruptedOmega7's Sub + Flamethrower Heatran
Deadline of voting's on Sunday GMT noon ;0
e: where tf is wide guard
bughouse's rocks heatran then
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Ice beam for Thundy/lando
Scald for burns/talon
Earth power for steel types
Reason for 3 attacks. Wide guard not necessary for this core
Edit : can't vote for my self
Meloettaaa's Scarf Hydreigon
Scald for burns/talon
Earth power for steel types
Reason for 3 attacks. Wide guard not necessary for this core
Edit : can't vote for my self
Meloettaaa's Scarf Hydreigon
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Roxer's Safety Goggles + 3 Attacks Zapdos
Bughouse's Safety Goggles + Stealth Rock Heatran
we are weak to Diancie
208 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 264-312 (94.9 - 112.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
208 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gengar: 280-330 (107.2 - 126.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
and people choose another pokemon that gets OHKO'd by it???
208 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 426-504 (110.9 - 131.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
48 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 384-456 (118.5 - 140.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
yet no swampert votes
252+ SpA Swampert Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Diancie: 224-266 (92.9 - 110.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
48 SpA Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 118-139 (29.2 - 34.4%) -- 70.6% chance to 4HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
208 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 264-312 (94.9 - 112.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
208 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gengar: 280-330 (107.2 - 126.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
and people choose another pokemon that gets OHKO'd by it???
208 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 426-504 (110.9 - 131.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
48 SpA Mega Diancie Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 384-456 (118.5 - 140.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
yet no swampert votes
252+ SpA Swampert Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Diancie: 224-266 (92.9 - 110.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
48 SpA Diancie Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 118-139 (29.2 - 34.4%) -- 70.6% chance to 4HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
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your daily reminder that a team is composed of 6 pokemon not 3.
I am aware of that. And I dont think having half a team that get totally destroyed by Diancie is a good thing being that Diancie is the 2nd most common mega.
Pastelle
we're all star stuff
Swampert is extremely niche, being slow as hell and lacking good bulk. Being slow and frail isn't going to help against a Diancie, no matter the typing advantage, especially with no Wide Guard.
I edited my post to account for sitrus berry recovery
you might want to re-evaluate your though process on this "Being slow and frail isn't going to help against a Diancie, no matter the typing advantage, especially with no Wide Guard."
some suggestions for this thread so it doesn't die by the third mon
1) make things faster. a mon/starting base per day maybe. Not sure how fast it's going right now but it feels slow. Thread was started 13 days ago and only starting to consider the third mon.shrug
2) mons, not sets. Otherwise you have what happened this week with like 10x special snowflake noms and 2x actually legitimate possibilities. Special snowflake sets should really be coming in on the beginning (aka "I want to make x possibility work. Build a team around it. Let's make this particular combination work) or towards the end (I'm weak to this but can't afford to run the traditional checks, what else works). I know the OP says we can revise, but in seriousness teambuilding decides the mons first, then picks sets around what a particular team needs. Why are we going for so many niche sets so early into the process? Stealth rocks goggles heatran is something you decide late into teambuilding, not immediately upon picking your third mon.
3) Stick to frameworks or have some semblance of discussion. Group team-building is all about using diverse viewpoints from different people make a better team.
4) Have some kind of system for proposing revisions to ongoing build. Not sure how this is working in the current system but in real teambuilding/group teambuilding you regularly revisit past choices, see how things are going. Maybe this would essentially be discussion, but that's what this thread needs. Why are you voting for this option? Explain/elaborate. Maybe a better system would just be a ongoing forum dialogue or a "host builder" who posts for help with a team/core and takes suggestions and revisions to teams. Nominate+vote feels bleh, both kind of boring and unlikely to survive for very long. Adding onto this would be letting players nominate more than one mon for a week. For example, this week, I would literally just nominate every single Talonflame check/counter I can think of. They would all be legitimate options that would take different directions in the build.
tl;dr a group teambuild needs to be more conducive to group dialogue and discussion than this. Also revisions, revisions, revisions.
1) make things faster. a mon/starting base per day maybe. Not sure how fast it's going right now but it feels slow. Thread was started 13 days ago and only starting to consider the third mon.shrug
2) mons, not sets. Otherwise you have what happened this week with like 10x special snowflake noms and 2x actually legitimate possibilities. Special snowflake sets should really be coming in on the beginning (aka "I want to make x possibility work. Build a team around it. Let's make this particular combination work) or towards the end (I'm weak to this but can't afford to run the traditional checks, what else works). I know the OP says we can revise, but in seriousness teambuilding decides the mons first, then picks sets around what a particular team needs. Why are we going for so many niche sets so early into the process? Stealth rocks goggles heatran is something you decide late into teambuilding, not immediately upon picking your third mon.
3) Stick to frameworks or have some semblance of discussion. Group team-building is all about using diverse viewpoints from different people make a better team.
4) Have some kind of system for proposing revisions to ongoing build. Not sure how this is working in the current system but in real teambuilding/group teambuilding you regularly revisit past choices, see how things are going. Maybe this would essentially be discussion, but that's what this thread needs. Why are you voting for this option? Explain/elaborate. Maybe a better system would just be a ongoing forum dialogue or a "host builder" who posts for help with a team/core and takes suggestions and revisions to teams. Nominate+vote feels bleh, both kind of boring and unlikely to survive for very long. Adding onto this would be letting players nominate more than one mon for a week. For example, this week, I would literally just nominate every single Talonflame check/counter I can think of. They would all be legitimate options that would take different directions in the build.
tl;dr a group teambuild needs to be more conducive to group dialogue and discussion than this. Also revisions, revisions, revisions.
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I agree with check. Also I think before the voting stage we need to list our weakness and how many checks we need to address them. our else we will keep ending up with what happened this week.
some people decided to nominate talon counters, sun counters, or heatran counters.
Just going straight into voting with out discussing what we need to cover will end up leaving use with a mess at the end.
and to checkmaters point. choosing pokemon and item first then their moves after we have decided on all 6 makes more sense
some people decided to nominate talon counters, sun counters, or heatran counters.
Just going straight into voting with out discussing what we need to cover will end up leaving use with a mess at the end.
and to checkmaters point. choosing pokemon and item first then their moves after we have decided on all 6 makes more sense
1. There comes a point where we might go too fast and not get enough bits of discussion and mons going forward. We can go fast in 3 days + 1 day of voting after this but nothing faster than that. I just don't want burnout to come into play.
2. Sound. Also we can always shoot down bad sets but w/e. This will probs happen next week, but the trade-off is that this might be longer than it should be.
3. The only reason we don't have a semblance of discussion is because no one fucking talks. As much as I want discussion here (I even said that in the OP!), I can't really force others to say things they can't be bothered to, can I? On another note, the point of the project is to have a good team while also (possibly) having a fun, creative build. Building something standard and according to a framework, while okay, isn't as fun as creative and fun builds, but the educational merit is there; certainly it's on the table in later builds (if we ever get to that point).
4. :|
2. Sound. Also we can always shoot down bad sets but w/e. This will probs happen next week, but the trade-off is that this might be longer than it should be.
3. The only reason we don't have a semblance of discussion is because no one fucking talks. As much as I want discussion here (I even said that in the OP!), I can't really force others to say things they can't be bothered to, can I? On another note, the point of the project is to have a good team while also (possibly) having a fun, creative build. Building something standard and according to a framework, while okay, isn't as fun as creative and fun builds, but the educational merit is there; certainly it's on the table in later builds (if we ever get to that point).
4. :|
- Making ongoing revisions would be unnecessary with the mons-only thing you suggested; what do you actually want here...
- If you want a host builder kind of thing, we might as well do teambuilding workshops. We all know how that went, though. This is also similar to the Teambuilding Shop and we all know what happened to that, too.
- I kind of see your point but unless someone actually puts up a system for picking mons, we'd probably never get to agree on anything and we'd never get to anywhere lol. Voting is still needed. However, since it's not sets and just mons I'll probs let people put into the table multiple Pokemon for discussion and talk about which fits more, etc. Without sets, the project will lean away from individual nominations and more into discussion.
Roxer's Zapdos won this round! but where's Roost huh...
Now, there will be changes to this project. They are the following:
The OP has been updated to reflect this.
Anyways, we're now picking our 4th mon! Run wild! Deadline's on Wednesday GMT Noon!
Now, there will be changes to this project. They are the following:
- You don't have to post sets anymore. Only the Pokemon themselves. There will be a phase after we pick all the mons in which we'll talk about what set works best for showcase.
- The time period for talking about the team itself is now 3 days and voting lasts 1 day
- You can bring up multiple Pokemon for discussion. You are not necessarily forced to bring up only one like in the old system.
The OP has been updated to reflect this.
Anyways, we're now picking our 4th mon! Run wild! Deadline's on Wednesday GMT Noon!
Like I already mentioned, we are weak af to diancie. We can't beat Heatran, and although zapdos has hp ice; we need another lando check.
Amoongus is a non threat to our 3 guys right now.
So for second week in a row I nominate Swampert as a diancie, Heatran, and lando check.
Amoongus is a non threat to our 3 guys right now.
So for second week in a row I nominate Swampert as a diancie, Heatran, and lando check.
doesn't click x vs trick room
can take a hit from talon and KO in return but not a great check
+6 azumarill beats checkmater
beats diancie, tran, lando
however i kinda would like another talon check
Keldeo is looking like a really solid option for our next mon for a number of reasons:
- Lando-T switchin and Rock resist
- Way to OHKO Kang
- Beats Heatran and Bisharp
- Quick Guard helps vs Talon and Bisharp (and prevents Thundy Skillwave)
- Water resistance for better Rain matchup
We definitely need another way to beat lando and a heatran check
those are 2 of our 3 biggest priorities right now, imo
wisp gengar and heatwave zapados will suffice as bisharp checks for now.
our rain match up is not terrible but I agree with need a check for it
adding a another way to beat talonflame is important as well
but right now we are getting completely wrecked by diancie; add keldeo and we have a 4th pokemon that gets OHKO'd
my priorities for finishing out this team
1. diancie
2. heatran
3. Kang (we cannot just depend on wisp gengar)
4. Lando
5. Talon
Swampert has decent match up vs kang and good match up vs the rest.
those are 2 of our 3 biggest priorities right now, imo
wisp gengar and heatwave zapados will suffice as bisharp checks for now.
our rain match up is not terrible but I agree with need a check for it
adding a another way to beat talonflame is important as well
but right now we are getting completely wrecked by diancie; add keldeo and we have a 4th pokemon that gets OHKO'd
my priorities for finishing out this team
1. diancie
2. heatran
3. Kang (we cannot just depend on wisp gengar)
4. Lando
5. Talon
Swampert has decent match up vs kang and good match up vs the rest.
Diancie is definitely still a problem but neither Mega Gardevoir nor Gengar are actually OHKO'd (Gengar because of its sash), and both 2HKO in return. So the matchup isn't quite as bad as you're making it out to be. If we were to add a scarf Lando-T for example, I think that would be enough to fix any Diancie problems we may have.
Keldeo takes care of 2-4 on your list (and kind of Talon, it's iffy because you have to spam Quick Guard so you don't really win vs it), and under Tailwind support from Zapdos (which can be set while Diancie protects), outspeeds and OHKOs #1.
Also Swampert can be KO'd by Adamant Kang Fake Out + Return and barely 3HKOs in return so I don't think you could consider that a decent matchup, as it's completely reliant on getting a scald burn. Swampert also has a chance to be 2HKO'd by Talon BB through Sitrus so it can't even switch in comfortably.
If we were going to consider something like Swampert, I'd actually recommend Gastrodon, which has a few things over Swampert:
Keldeo takes care of 2-4 on your list (and kind of Talon, it's iffy because you have to spam Quick Guard so you don't really win vs it), and under Tailwind support from Zapdos (which can be set while Diancie protects), outspeeds and OHKOs #1.
Also Swampert can be KO'd by Adamant Kang Fake Out + Return and barely 3HKOs in return so I don't think you could consider that a decent matchup, as it's completely reliant on getting a scald burn. Swampert also has a chance to be 2HKO'd by Talon BB through Sitrus so it can't even switch in comfortably.
If we were going to consider something like Swampert, I'd actually recommend Gastrodon, which has a few things over Swampert:
- reliable recovery
- lives Mega Kang Fake Out + Return or two Brave Birds
- better TR + Aegis matchup
- Water-type immunity for a better Rain matchup
