XY UU Viability Ranking Thread V2

[Kink]

Nominating Machamp for A rank

Upper-Ladder Replays: 1500-1649

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-169395284
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-169396726
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-169399598
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-169570667
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-169681973
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-170082925

Top-Ladder Replays: 1650+

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-169896438
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-170107690
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-170561995

Sorry if some of these aren't machamp friendly. I battle too much. but sift through them, the argumentation is all there.

 

[Kink]

I'll post full reasoning when I have time, but I'd like to nominate Mienshao to S. I think you could argue it's the best mon in the tier right now, and it's almost a must-run on balance.

I second this. Quite simply, Mienshao wallbreaks through the whole tier. Its use is obvious, but arguably necessary. Its selection is limited, but almost Universally applicable, which makes it that much more dangerous.

On that note, Crobat for S rank as well.

 

[Yifeng]

Nominating Machamp for A rank

I disagree
Any mon that wins by hax isn't worthy of A rank, and it's too much of a one trick pony.

 

[KM]

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are almost flawless in the UU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and almost always brings a high reward. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are more than made up for by numerous positive traits.

Jirachi

 

[RowDog]

Though Jirachi arguably has a lot more things going for it then just hax. It can run a plethora of sets viably and have a lot of roles that are free from hax or only rely somewhat on hax. A lot of times it won't even need to get the Iron Head Flinch, though it is a nice bonus.

 

[Tipsy Russian]

I disagree
Any mon that wins by hax isn't worthy of A rank, and it's too much of a one trick pony.

There is other sets besides the AV dynamic punch one. Band Guts Champ>AV Champ

 

[So Dynamic]

Nominating Mismagius for B-. Mismagius is quite viable right now, and is often overlooked. It can check Lucario, the Nidos, Blissey, Vaporeon, Jirachis that aren't scarfed, etc. As for its movepool, it's quite diverse, with access to Calm Mind, Nasty Plot, Trick, Pain Split, Destiny Bond, Will-O-Wisp, Dazzling Gleam, Heal Bell, And Perish Song. As an offensive ghost type, even though it lacks the massive special attack that Chandelure, it makes up for it with its diverse movepool, the lack of its weakness to water and rock, and its respectable base 105 speed. As an offensive spinblocker, it's unfortunately unable to block Forretress like Chandelure can, although outside of him, there aren't any spinners that Chandelure can beat. As much as Mismagius does have several flaws that keep it from being a top tier threat, it definitely deserves a spot in B- due to how solid it is.

 

[Dillon~]

Nominating Mismagius for B-. Mismagius is quite viable right now, and is often overlooked. It can check Lucario, the Nidos, Blissey, Vaporeon, Jirachis that aren't scarfed, etc. As for its movepool, it's quite diverse, with access to Calm Mind, Nasty Plot, Trick, Pain Split, Destiny Bond, Will-O-Wisp, Dazzling Gleam, Heal Bell, And Perish Song. As an offensive ghost type, even though it lacks the massive special attack that Chandelure, it makes up for it with its diverse movepool, the lack of its weakness to water and rock, and its respectable base 105 speed. As an offensive spinblocker, it's unfortunately unable to block Forretress like Chandelure can, although outside of him, there aren't any spinners that Chandelure can beat. As much as Mismagius does have several flaws that keep it from being a top tier threat, it definitely deserves a spot in B- due to how solid it is.

I kind of am in the middle with that suggestion. It really is over looked for other ghost types such as chandy. It's slower and can't hit as hard. Butttt it does get nasty plot. Making it a good poke to be able to set up and can sweep if not taken to seriously.

 

[DiscoDucky]

There is other sets besides the AV dynamic punch one. Band Guts Champ>AV Champ

It essentially fills in the role that Heracross had when it was still UU (to some degree).

Also, what's everyone's opinion on Gurdurr? I've heard about its success down in RU and NU, but I really want to know how well does it function in UU and whether it deserves a spot on the UU Viability Rankings list.

 

[slated]

tbh i doubt it even deserves a spot in viability. Obviously I've never used it, but it relies on eviolite to have any sort of bulk and considering how common knock off is, it wouldn't specificially thrive. its bulk isn't that good even with eviolite, it lacks recovery outside of drain punch which is meager, guts is ok for switching into toxic but it still isn't going to be OHKOing any swamperts even when toxic'd. It can't really setup because it gets worn down and beaten by any fighting resist in the tier (which there are lots of, btw.)

 

[dingbat]

Regarding 'mons that deserve a spot in viability ranks, Accelgor needs to be ranked. It definitely has a strong enough niche as a spikes setter to differentiate itself from Froslass, as it sports a speed tier much faster than that of Froslass and a little quicker than that of max neutral Megadactyl and it sports Encore, which (for instance) can lock set-up 'mons into set-up moves, giving it free turns to set up those Spikes. It can even prevent the opponent from Defogging/Spinning for one turn with Final Gambit, which in itself is a pretty cool move. Clearly something that's been overlooked.

I'm also hearing a little bit about Moltres (in the Conquest thread); I'll write about that one later.

IMHO, Gurdurr should not be ranked atm, unless you can truly convince us otherwise that its extra physical bulk for a Fighting-type really matters in this metagame. It just faces to much competition from other fighting types, especially Machamp, which if I remember correctly, actually has better special bulk than uninvested Gurdurr. Just something to consider.

 

[Kink]

I think in general, the c-rank in these viability rankings is undermined but the sheer amount of Pokemon. There definitely need to be more c-ranks listed.

 

[dodmen]

Whimsicott needs to be ranked higher, at least A-. Its typing and access to a lot of utility let it do so much for a team. It checks a huge amount of Pokemon in the higher tiers of viability, including big threats like Hydreigon, Mega Ampharos, Mega Absol, Mega Blastoise, Suicune, and countless others. It hits decently hard with its dual STAB and equipped with a Life Orb. It can provide amazing support for a team in the form of Taunt, Encore, Memento, Tailwind, Stun Spore, you name it, you can just pick whatever your team needs, and it's got access to the coveted U-turn. I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up before and that it's still sitting at B. Whimsicott for A-.

 

[Meru]

I think B+ suits Whimsicott better. Many of the mons that it checks have ways around it. Hydreigon has Flash Cannon and Flamethrower, Mega Amph can Volt Switch out if it tries to come in, Mega Blastoise and Suicune can Ice Beam for over half of its health, and Mega Absol has been on the decline lately. In addition to that, a lot of metagame threats easily destroy it, including Jirachi, Roserade, and Crobat, all top tier mons. As such, it's relegated more toward its support duties, which are very unique but can also be somewhat underwhelming at times, as Grass-types and Electric-types are immune to Stun Spore, Tailwind is short, and beyond that, 4MSS infringes hard upon the lil cotton ball.

I'm definitely all for it moving up, but I think B+ is just a much better fit for it.

 

[KM]

removing gurdurr,idk why the hell its on there in the first place

whimsi is being moved to b+

i'm not too keen on accelgor, given that it lacks taunt, and destiny bond is just way better than final gambit imo. seems to me like you dispose of it the same way you would froslass - you either lead with somethign like sableye that can taunt it or you lead with a slow u-turner and pivot into something fast that can ohko it. only difference is it can't spinblock for itself, doesn't have taunt or destiny bond or icy wind or t wave (at least, i think so). i've tried it out, but i've never found it to be that impressive at all.

edit: gurdurr was never on viab thread, i thought so. just misread

 

[atomicllamas]

removing gurdurr,idk why the hell its on there in the first place

whimsi is being moved to b+

i'm not too keen on accelgor, given that it lacks taunt, and destiny bond is just way better than final gambit imo. seems to me like you dispose of it the same way you would froslass - you either lead with somethign like sableye that can taunt it or you lead with a slow u-turner and pivot into something fast that can ohko it. only difference is it can't spinblock for itself, doesn't have taunt or destiny bond or icy wind or t wave (at least, i think so). i've tried it out, but i've never found it to be that impressive at all.

edit: gurdurr was never on viab thread, i thought so. just misread

The reason Accelgor runs Final Gambit is that it prevents both spin and defog (no target). Idk if it deserves a place on the viability ranking thread though, I've never tried it in UU, and I feel like it is very niche in comparison to Froslass, but yeah, it does block spin and defog by itself.

 

[KM]

The reason Accelgor runs Final Gambit is that it prevents both spin and defog (no target). Idk if it deserves a place on the viability ranking thread though, I've never tried it in UU, and I feel like it is very niche in comparison to Froslass, but yeah, it does block spin and defog by itself.

well, not really. froslass isn't always sacked in the first couple turns of the game, so it actually performs as a real spinblocker, rather than a pseudospinblocker. i mean, it's a spinblocker in the same sense normal aero is - it's meant to get down to sash (or not, in accelgor's case), set up hazards, and then prevent early spins with a self-killing move like double-edge or final gambit. however, froslass can have utility throughout the game as a spinblocker without having to be active and use a specific move

but yeah, that is a good point, thanks for mentioning it llamas:)<3

 

[RyanKoopa]

Still waiting on Delphox for C rank

 

[glock in my toyota]

I kind of am in the middle with that suggestion. It really is over looked for other ghost types such as chandy. It's slower and can't hit as hard. Butttt it does get nasty plot. Making it a good poke to be able to set up and can sweep if not taken to seriously.

Uh... Mismagius is faster than Chandelure.... by a lot.

 

[UU ALL DAY]

I think it's safe to safe Alakazam should be at least A- rank.

With the ability to outspeed the entire unboosted meta (and even boosted base +spe 80 scarfed) with timid, it is an excellent cleaner. Trace is helpful for coming in on like Scalds from Vap (which is very popular atm). It has a speed tier matched only by Mega-aero. It has a great movepool, using encore, protect, or recover as utility moves, and even learning things like CM to nab a free +1 on an anticpated switch.

Psyshock allows it to bypass things like Florges/Bliss easier, and with Dazzling Gleam and Shadow Ball, you have all the coverage you need. In addition, if you so desire, you can run focus blast or energy ball to hit very specific threats.

all in all, I think alakzam is one of the most meta-defining pokes now that it has officially dropped.

 

[Schpoonman]

Do you mean Alakazite/Mega Alakazam? If so, it should be no lower than A+. It's easily the best cleaner in the tier, and with coverage neatly wrapped up in three moves (whatever you choose), there's always room for Calm Mind or Protect.

Speaking of Protect, would Our Glorious Leader kokoloko fill us in on Protect's utility? Is it really just scouting? A safe Mega Evolution?

Nope, "Our Glorious Leader" doesn't have the same zing as "Our Benevolent Dictator".

 

[kokoloko]

safe mega is the most important, since you only speed tie mienshao--and therefore lose to infernape through crobat--but having the fastest mon in the tier knowng what the opponent's scarfer locks itself into before switching (or even staying in) is nice, especially with krook having gotten so popular lately.

 

[Bouff]

Yeah, I think Megazam should be A+, maybe even S rank, as it can do well versus pretty much any team archetype given enough support, and sets like calm mind (or calm mind recover, for that matter) make it really hard for more defensively-oriented playstyles to break through it, and Protect makes it a good scout for choiced users while gaining the speed boosts at the same time without taking any damage.

expect an update later today / tommorrow

 

[Kink]

Hello everyone,

I've been officially added as a member of the deciding council for viability rankings. We're currently doing a re-examination of the entire C rank tier.

• We're bringing back C+ in order to separate average niches from less average niches in UU
• Our C- ranking will become a "testing ground" for mons that may have viability, but further research is required

Immediate Changes

Mega-Alakazam S-rank
Haxorus A+ --> A
Chandelure A --> A+
Krookodile A --> A+
Roserade A --> A-
Azelf A- --> B+
Cobalion A- --> B+
Machamp A- --> A
Rotom-H B --> B+
Granbull B+ --> B
Rhyperior B+ --> B
Arcanine B --> B+
Diancie B --> B-
Honchkrow B --> B+
Stoutland B --> B-
Cacturne B- --> C+
M-Banette C --> C+
Drapion C --> C+
Exploud C --> C+
Jolteon C --> C+
Milotic C --> C+
Mismagius C --> C+
Chatot C --> C-
Porygon2 C --> C+
Scrafty C --> C+
Trevanant C --> C+
Vivillon C --> C-
Tyrantrum C --> Kicked off rip

New Additions

Delphox - C Rank
Golbat - C Rank
Moltres - C Rank
Accelgor - C Rank
Archeops - C rank
Kabutops - C rank
Uxie - C Rank
Xatu - C+ Rank

C- Testing Grounds List

Bronzong
Chatot
Spiritomb
Vivillon
Combusken
Cradily
Ditto

Discussion Changes

Mienshao A+ -> S
M-Aggron B+ -> A-
Rotom-C B+ -> B
Alakazam A+ -> A
Cresselia B+ -> B
Mismagius C+ -> B-
Hariyama - C rank

I encourage all users to join the discussion. Please keep the discussions respectful and informative. If you have to strongly express yourself because you strongly disagree with any new addition, send a pm.

Offer your opinions on "Discussion Changes" as well as our new Testing Grounds.

Kitten Milk please update the op asap, ty bb

 

[aim]

My thoughts as well as user Pearl on Golbat

Golbat

[17:23] <Pearl> hm my knowledge about uu is sort of limited
[17:23] <Pearl> but what niche does golbat have > crobat o:
[17:23] <Pearl> also, ambipom and archeops in a tier /w maero
[17:23] <aim> just the bulk. he can tank
[17:23] <aim> basically
[17:23] <aim> anything
[17:23] <aim> lol
[17:23] <aim> of course he fears
[17:24] <aim> knock off
[17:24] == Royalty [Royalty@Back.In.The.Game] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
[17:24] <aim> which is super common
[17:24] <aim> so idk
[17:24] <Pearl> yeah
[17:24] <Pearl> i sort of know golbat's perks from ru
[17:24] <aim> i know if from bw nu
[17:24] <Pearl> but idk how that translates into the uu meta
[17:24] <aim> o.o
[17:24] <aim> idk
[17:24] <aim> i mean i could c why
[17:24] <Pearl> especially with crobat's speed
[17:24] <aim> yeh
[17:24] <Pearl> speedy defog + taunt + fast everything
[17:24] <aim> i mean
[17:24] <aim> a slow uturn tho
[17:25] <aim> is very nice
[17:25] <aim> on a defoger
[17:25] <aim> tanks the hit and gets the free swith
[17:25] <aim> into check/couter
[17:25] <aim> plus it isnt that slow
[17:25] <aim> iirc
[17:25] <Pearl> yeah
[17:25] <Pearl> maybe it's actually worth ranking for those small niches
[17:25] <aim> ^
[17:25] <aim> agreed