Tyranitar (Full Revamp) +

[Syberia]

The whole Stone Edge vs. Rock Slide bit in the first paragraph just seems awkward to me. Maybe just slash it in, but say something brief about how it has better accuracy, but since you're slow, it usually won't help you.

 

[Aquilae]

Could Babiri Berry (steel resist berry, I think), be an option for the Dragon Dancer? Its sacrificing a load of power if it opts to use Leftovers > Life Orb, and the recovery isn't significant in my opinion unless Tyranitar is going up against Scizor, in the situation you specified in the comments. I think that Babiri is a better option for the sole purpose of beating Scizor, it allows Tyranitar to get past both CB and LO Scizor as a normal Tyranitar wouldn't survive a CB Bullet Punch without significant Def / HP investment.

 

[maddog]

Just finished writing up Boah. Note I'm going to go through this bit by bit in order to ensure quality, but feel free to point out grammar flaws and what not.

If you want mention it in the [SET COMMENTS]. I don't really see the merit of either having a moveslot (they're just useful options alongside the set) and have their niche uses.

Ok sounds good.

The whole Stone Edge vs. Rock Slide bit in the first paragraph just seems awkward to me. Maybe just slash it in, but say something brief about how it has better accuracy, but since you're slow, it usually won't help you.

I'll look into that. I was just copy+pasting from the original analysis, but I think it is still important to go over in some depth, espically for newer players. For example, check out Slaking's ADV analysis. The whole why not to use Brick Break or Rock Slide on Slaking section might seem like "wow what a rant" to experienced ADV players, but it is still is extremely important for a newer player just trying out Slaking. So in summation, I think it should stay, but I agree that it should be modified.

Could Babiri Berry (steel resist berry, I think), be an option for the Dragon Dancer? Its sacrificing a load of power if it opts to use Leftovers > Life Orb, and the recovery isn't significant in my opinion unless Tyranitar is going up against Scizor, in the situation you specified in the comments. I think that Babiri is a better option for the sole purpose of beating Scizor, it allows Tyranitar to get past both CB and LO Scizor as a normal Tyranitar wouldn't survive a CB Bullet Punch without significant Def / HP investment.

If the only reason I was using Leftovers was because of Scizor, then the Steel resist berry would probably be a good option. But, Tyranitar can take all kinds of hits and Leftovers capitializes on this ability, even though it is not investing in in Def or anything. I suppose there's no harm in mentioning it, but I would rather make myself a little bit bulkier in order to survive a CB hit than give up my Leftovers (as the difference between LO and CB is 10% or so).

 

[jumpluff]

[SET]
name: TyraniBoah
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Focus Punch
move 3: Crunch / Dark Pulse
move 4: Ice Beam / Fire Blast / Thunderbolt
item: Leftovers
nature: Quiet / Brave
evs: 252 HP / 60 Atk / 168 SpA / 28 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Boah is still a solid threat to many teams. Bringing Tyranitar out will often force switches, which gives you the opportunity to set up a Substitute and ease prediction. From there, fire off Focus Punches or your Dark STAB move from behind your Substitute. The choice for a 4th move is dependent on your team. Ice Beam is a great choice; with the given EVs it will 2HKO a 252 HP/ 0 SpD Hippowdon, and deal massive damage to Gliscor, Donphan, Salamence, Shaymin-S, and Breloom. With the new rising threats this generation, Fire Blast is a good option in order to nail those Scizor, Skarmory, and Forretress switch-ins, as well as Grass types. Thunderbolt hits the aformentioned Skarmory, and also has the benefit of hitting Suicune and Milotic.</p>

<p>Since your fourth move will hit from the special end of the spectrum, you may find Crunch a superior choice to Dark Pulse. You have more Attack than Special Attack with this spread, anyway. Crunch should also be your STAB attack of choice if you use this version of Tyranitar in Uber battles thanks to most of your foes having much higher Special Defense than Defense.</p>

<p>The Speed makes you just faster than Blissey. If you want, you can put a few more EVs in it in case the enemy Blissey also invests in Speed EVs. It can be important to be faster than Blissey so you can Substitute before they Thunder Wave or Toxic. Max HP gives you 404 HP, which creates Substitutes that are 101 HP. This means that Blissey's Seismic Toss cannot break your Substitute in one hit, letting you Focus Punch for free on the next turn. The Special Attack lets you 2HKO a 252 HP / 0 Special Defense Hippowdon with Ice Beam assuming you have a Quiet nature. If you use Crunch, consider Brave over Quiet (and possibly raise Attack at the expense of Special Attack). If you use Dark Pulse, consider dropping Attack and raising Special Attack / Speed in exchange. Basically, adjust the spread to fit your specific team needs, or check the EV section for more ideas on an EV spread.</p>

 

[Anti]

I think the "rant" about Rock Slide vs Stone Edge should be moved to Other Options. With the EV spread listed on the Choice Bander you'll outspeed Skarmory aiming to 2HKO it with Stone Edge, but you can't with Rock Slide (barring a flinch, making it a 3hko I guess). Sort of makes it a bit pointless.

 

[EL PAJAS TRAE UNA CABRA]

I think that Tyranitar is and always had been a good pk. I have a sugestion about the TyraniBoah, because I had created a Platinum Tyranitar based in this, I called "SuperTyraniBoah" and after some evidence sharing EVs, this is the result:

SuperTyraniBoah @ Expert Belt
Ability: Sand Stream
VEs: 252 HP/80 Atk/28 Spd/148 SAtk
Quiet nature (+ SAtk,-SPD)
- Superpower
- Thunderbolt / Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Earth Power / Ice Beam / Fire Blast

A machine. May be the TyraniBoah Platinum. Beats most of the Starters like Azelf falling while carrying the Focus Sash. With Superpower crack walls and is safe to Blissey with 2HKO Expert Belt (although lead Leftovers). Like other special are not so concerned about the fall of Superpower particularly ATK and can do much damage to Cresselia, OHKO Skarmory, Heatran, Donphan, and so on.
-------------------

By the way I think that the CBander is also a proper opcion in some situations.

The DDancer with the Scizor, Metagross and Infernape with Vacuum Wave I think is less useful.

The Mixed Dancer have the same problem.

The Scarf is yet a acceptable option in Tyranitar.

And the Specser could serve.

But, now the SuperTyraniBoah along with CBander-Tar I find the best options in Platinum.
...................................................

Notes of SuperTyraniBoah

The SuperTyraniBoah name is so-called by you new attack Superpower.

Advantages about SuperTyraniBoah

- The new move Superpower can replace Focus Punch and forget you of the prediction of this and hit nearly with the same power.
- As can take advantage you of that empty of Substitute for put on other move more something like his new move Earth Power or best Ice Beam, Thunderbolt or Fire Blast.
- Is best Lead than TyraniBoah because thanks to his most ample movepool in the Set hit OHKO to nearly everybody the Starters: Others Tyranitar, Metagross, Skarmory of course, Donphan, Hippodown (2HKO and he need 3HKO for faint you), Azelf, Bronzong (also it depend his EVs in SpD), Cresselia (2HKO) and so on.
- Depending on circumstances you can choose the move that most you need for the SuperTyraniBoah.

Advantages about TyraniBoah

- Focus Punch is 2HKO to Blissey and he don’t can break your Substitute of 1 Seismic Toss as soon as this is good idea.
- Focus Punch excepting to Blissey reduce its utility because is necessary have prediction and most if you haven’t a Substitute.
- Is a good Lead, but don’t win VS: Donphan, Hippodown (although maybe vs Hippodown could win), he is not even 2HKO to Cresselia, he never is OHKO to Bronzong and so on.
- Substitute protect you against the Status Change.
---------------------------------

It only had been a small summary about the SuperTyraniBoah, but I think that can became a good option for take account.
Grettings

 

[maddog]

Instersting idea, and the write up was nice, but to me, this just seems like what the Life Orb set is, with a different EV spread. Superpower is going to make you switch out more, and this and Boah really do serve two different puporses. Boah is supposed to break things behind a Sub, while this is focused on trying to outpredict your opponent, and doesn't offer the safety of Substitute. As I said in my second post in this thread, I really do think that Expert Belt is a superior item to Life Orb, because your opponent will have to play a guessing game. However, I guess the point I'm trying to make is that this doesn't bring anything new to the table.

 

[EL PAJAS TRAE UNA CABRA]

Ok, thank for your opinion, maybe doesn't bring anythingg new but in SB give me fantastic results.

grettings

 

[maddog]

No problem.

Added Choice Scarf, I'll edit in some of the fixes you guys suggested and the grammar mistakes in a little bit.

Added Lead Tar, it seems a little disjointed, but hopefully I can fix that.

 

[maddog]

Can someone look over this for me? I still have a few more sets to add and what not, but it would be nice if someone could check if I'm doing a good job or more options need to be added. Note that I haven't really changed around anything after the initail write-up, so I will add change stuff like "Rock Slide vs Stone Edge" after I'm done with everything else.

 

[Venom]

Just popping to say;

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41546

I remember some people claimed (not me) to have success, so I thought maybe adding this set if it is in fact successful

 

[maddog]

Thanks. I'll definetly add this set as another way to use Counter. I'll probably put this set before the lead, and I'll add the ways Counter can own stuff in this writeup, because it would be better just to say "counter is a great option on this set for reasons mentioned in the previous set", as the descritpion of the lead is pretty all over the place as it is. This set should most definetely be in the analysis.

 

[Garganator]

Well... maybe some set with T-wave could work in similar way like Tinkerbell Celebi ? No one expects T-Wave on Tyranitar and it could help with some random scarf users, Lucario and Heracross. For example something like this:

Name: T-Waver
move 1: Thunder-Wave / Rock Tomb / Scary Face
move 2: Super Power
move 3: Crunch / Bite / Rock Slide (if someone want to try using pseudo flinch)
move 4: Ice Beam / Fire Blast / Thunderbolt
item: Leftovers
nature: Quiet / Brave

I think standard T-Boah EVs could work here. Ice Beam just for those ground-types, which will enjoy switching on T-Wave to easily absorb it. Maybe someone will try to use Scary Face or Rock Tomb just for ground-types. With Rock Tomb investing some EVs in speed is neccesary though. I don't think it's worth a new set, but in analyse T-Wave is worth a mention as a possibility to help fix a problem with his low speed and give your team some support for example to help some slower sweepers in your team like Rhyperior.

 

[maddog]

Twave definelety seems like a better option in platinum, but I still think that other options is a better place for that. aqua tail makes those grounds think twice about switching in, so twave definetely has that advangate now. however, most of tyranitar's counters, like scizor and skarmory, don't care about twave at all. so while the counters may have shifted, it doesn't make twave that much better of an option

 

[Colonel M]

Well Skarmory might care because he can't PP Stall Stone Edge now. But besides that are we going to include Choice Specs? I know it's not Tyranitar's best option but with Superpwoer its gained a decent reason to be used. Too bad Hidden Power Rock seems like a shaky option when Fire Blast, Dark Pulse, and Earth Power are closing the gaps for him most of the time.

 

[maddog]

Yeah, I was going to add Choice Specs (it was one of the things I had left to do besides the mixed dancer and opinions/ evs sections and what not). For the choice specs set, i'm thinking dark pulse/ ice beam/ fire blast/ earth power with hp rock, thunderbolt and maybe surf or something as good other options and superpower as a slash on the set.

 

[Colonel M]

That works. I dunno about Surf since Earth Power and Ice Beam cover everything Surf wants to hit. Though you are the one in charge of the set so I'll let you decide that. I just think that Superpower seems nearly necessary to prevent Blissey from screwing with the lesser option of strategy.

 

[maddog]

Yeah, I wsa kind of thinking that too. I was more like "oh look a special attack" lol. Surf will probably not appear on the set, but I'm not sure how . What move do you think can be forgoed for Superpower? All the moves seem pretty necessary on the set. I'll have to run some damage calculations.

 

[Caelum]

You don't need to rewrite the mixed dancer really at all, it's remained identical in Platinum.

I think Superpower is probably best option alongside (or over) Earth Power. Superpower takes a pretty big chunk out of Heatran, Tyranitar, & Infernape and steels like Jirachi / Metagross don't like taking a Fire Blast / Dark Pulse anyway. Also, why Fire Blast? Flamethrower worked great on SpecsTar before and I'm just wondering why you've decided to switch to Fire Blast. The set should probably look something like
~ Dark Pulse
~ Ice Beam
~ Flamethrower / Thunderbolt
~ Superpower / Earth Power

 

[gec]

In the Lead Tyranitar set:

401 HP and 310 Special Defense + Sandstorm allow Tyranitar to survive a 359 Special Attack Life Orb Gengar's Focus Blast over 97% of the time.

Don't know if it is meant to say 401, but the set EVs give 404 HP, not 401.

 

[Colonel M]

Simiair to what Caelum posted but I use Fire Blast for the extra power. Otherwise that's how I would've handled it as well. It sucks that Earth Power does have some use but not a whole lot when you compare it to his other moves.

 

[RaikouLover]

Well, I'm doing the Dragonite analysis and I've been running calculations for a Choice Specs set and I found that Focus Punch is far better than Superpower. With Neutral nature and 60 EVs, Focus Punch OHKOs Blissey after Stealth Rock guarenteed (86% minimum vs. Bold Bliss, and no one uses that anymore). Since Tyranitar has the same base attack, you are much better off just using Focus Punch to kill Blissey rather than Superpower for any of the Specs sets. Therefore, the set should look like:

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Dark Pulse
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Flamethrower / Thunderbolt
move 4: Focus Punch
item: Choice Specs
nature: Mild
evs: 60 Atk / 196 Spe / 252 SpA

-----
Someone right the comments for this. But the speed outspeeds Cresselia so you can flinch it, which also outspeeds bulky waters to 2HKO with T-bolt if you go that route. Focus Punch OHKOs Blissey

 

[Chileno4Live]

<p>Aqua Tail is a new addition to Tyranitar's movepool in Platinum, and it solves one of the major problems Tyranitar had in the past: getting past Bulky Grounds. With Aqua Tail and a Choice Band, Hippowdon is 2HKOed, and thus the original 100% counter to the CB set can be easily dealt with. Gliscor is 2HKOed as well, but it can stall Tyranitar for a miss with Roost. Earthquake is still listed as an option to hit Steels such as Metagross and Jirachi, but Crunch already does a pretty good job at denting them. Still, Earthquake is a great option to destroy Lucario, and the aftermentioned steels.</p>

I think you meant destroy and not destory right? Just a little nitpick.

 

[Venom]

Thunder Wave isn't too helpful on Tyranitar as many of its common switch-ins are Ground-types. Stealth Rock is useful for support but is best left to more defensive Pokémon. Avalanche or Ice Fang can be used on the Choice Band set to potentially OHKO an incoming Garchomp or Gliscor (Gliscor will never faint if it has 252 HP / 252 Def Impish), although Ice Beam is usually a superior option as it does far more to the likes of Gliscor and Hippowdon. Aerial Ace destroys Breloom and Heracross in one hit, but is of little use outside of those two. Rock Slide is still a good option if Stone Edge's accuracy bothers you—it's particularly good on the Dragon Dance or Scarf sets where you can utilize the 30% flinch rate.

This is from the on-site analysis, Ice Punch > Ice Fang, Tyranitar got Ice Punch in DPP.

 

[Jumpman16]

ok a few things that are bugging me about boah

first, 168 SpA is kind of bad because it misses the magic point of a mere 8 EVs. there's no reason to not strive for 297 SpA especially when the 60 Atk EV are apparently not specifically allotted for any one pokemon

second, there's virtually no reason to use fire blast over flamethrower. FT does 142% min to the standard scizor (32HP/0SpD) and 147% to the standard forretress (252HP/0SpD). 297 SpA Fire Blast only has a 15% chance of OHKOing the standard Skarmory (the listed 294 SpA does less obviously), which is a percentage that washes with the Stealth Rock "argument" as far as I'm concerned due to FB's shitty accuracy. Scizor and Forry are both used more than Skarmory (#8, #27 and #28 respectively with the latest usage stats), but regardless, if there is an actual specfic reason to use FB over FT, it needs to be listed. for posterity though, FB will never OHKO Metagross and FT will always 2HKO, and similarly with Bronzong—FB does 54% max to Bronzong meaning that both FT and FB are likely 3HKOs (especially accounting for FBs miss chance). not seeing a real reason to risk FB when it literally doesn't seem to make any difference as far as what Boah can/can't KO

third, revisiting the Atk EVs...why? there needs to be a specific reason behind going with the 60 Attack EVs listed

and finally, this ties to my third point, but what are the specific reasons for going with Crunch over Dark Pulse? i'm sure this was discussed in the DP thread about this at some point, but I don't remember the reasoning and besides the fact that I personally don't see why it's a good idea, I literally don't see it either and we must remember the entire point behind these analyses is to educate inexperienced users. there is obviously more of a reason to run Atk EVs on PT Boah if it has two physical attacks instead of one, but besides my concern over whether or not that is still a good idea in PT (only one physical attack doesn't "deserve" 60 Atk EVs as much as two may), there still really needs to be specific reasons listed in the analysis to have Crunch on Boah over Dark Pulse