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The Best Butterfly?
- Thread starter blastoiselover100
- Start date
I think gmax summed it up about right. C'mon people vote #1 for venomoth. Seriously who were the 2 people who just voted for mothim? -.-
Why isnt Beautifly getting any love? SpecsBeautifly using BugBuzz running off the same 90 SpAtt as Venomoth with Swarm Activated is going to own!
Then theres the matter of Beautifly's 65 Speed which you suddenly realised poses a big problem...
FocusSash Beautifly to 1HKO Weavile leads FTW!
Then theres the matter of Beautifly's 65 Speed which you suddenly realised poses a big problem...
FocusSash Beautifly to 1HKO Weavile leads FTW!
Just to point out Butterfree gets %97,5 Sleep Powder, not %90. That is a huge difference.
Not to mention Butterfree's movepool is bigger than nearly everything and their mom.
%97 Stun/Sleep Powder, %71 Supersonic, Whirlwind, Silver Wind, Tailwind, Safeguard, Captivate, Bug Buzz, %100 Toxic, Hidden Power, Sunny Day, Giga Drain, Return, Psychic, Shadow Ball, Double Team, Aerial Ace, Facade, Rest, Attract, Thief, Skill Swap, Roost, Energy Ball, Endure, Psych Up, Sleep Talk, Dream Eater, %100 Swagger, U-Turn, Substitute, Harden, String Shot.
Can Moth do half of what this butterfly can do?
Not to mention Butterfree's movepool is bigger than nearly everything and their mom.
%97 Stun/Sleep Powder, %71 Supersonic, Whirlwind, Silver Wind, Tailwind, Safeguard, Captivate, Bug Buzz, %100 Toxic, Hidden Power, Sunny Day, Giga Drain, Return, Psychic, Shadow Ball, Double Team, Aerial Ace, Facade, Rest, Attract, Thief, Skill Swap, Roost, Energy Ball, Endure, Psych Up, Sleep Talk, Dream Eater, %100 Swagger, U-Turn, Substitute, Harden, String Shot.
Can Moth do half of what this butterfly can do?
Harden, String Shot, Skill Swap, Attract, Double Team, Giga Drain, Safeguard, Tailwind, Captivate, Psych Up, Endure (on a Butterfree??!), Supersonic are really a bunch of uberpowered attacks which warrant a whole new tier for Butterfree, right?
BTW, Moth can use almost all the decent moves that Butterfree can(except Roost) and to top it off, he can absorb TSpikes, and run Agilipass. And at least try to pick moves that aren't learnt by 99% of the Pokemon in existence...
And Roosting Butterfree? 60/50/80 are ideal defenses right? That 50% is going to be SO valuable.
^ String shot owns on Butterfree. I'm not kidding.
Sleep Powder, Substitute as they switch, then String Shot.
Oh wait, I am kidding.
Sleep Powder, Substitute as they switch, then String Shot.
Oh wait, I am kidding.
Tailwind Butterfree could be useable. Come in on something ridiculously slow, sleep it then set up Tailwind on the switch. Aside from Sleep Powder, Stun Spore and Tailwind, Venomoth beats it, hands down.
80 Base SDef is actually good for UU, y'kno? Harden supports 'Free's craptastic defense and gives it a shot at surviving random non-STAB Brick Breaks and such. With Roost and Harden, it can handle non-Stone Edge Primeape and Lee all day long. Skill Swapping Compoundeyes to a Hypno is always fun, and so is Psych Upping its CMs.
OK, so let me get this straight. On a 60/50 base HP/Def Poke, you want to use Harden?
Um, Hitmonlee runs Blaze Kick, and Stone Edge is standard on Fighting Types, since Fight+Rock is great coverage. If Primeape isn't running Stone Edge, it'll just run Thunderpunch/Ice Punch, saying gg anyway. The 4x resist won't matter when it comes to taking CB hits from Hitmonlee with 60/50 defenses. Its terrible typing makes it so that that base 80 SDef is kinda ruined(Ice/Fire/Electric). It'll take 50% just coming in what with SR being so common. Skill Swap is a waste of a slot, though that example is kinda nice lol, Hypno can become infuriating. Psych Upping is useless, its SAtk isn't enough, and Hypno will just BP it to something that is faster and will murder it.
Tailwind gives you one turn to work with...
Tailwind is three turns of speed boosting. So, after that, switch to some sort of bulky tank and let them stat up in speed, maybe Swords Dancing at the same time, for an end-game sweep.
Yep, same exact logic, so according to ChouToshio's theory, Butterfree must be better than DD Dragonite (without Outrage) since Salamence can do it better. Who knew?
The thing that this retard is failing to understand is that WE ARE FUCKING COMPARING BUTTERFREE TO VENOMOTH AND NOTHING ELSE. Comparing these 2 Pokemon and disregarding whatever the fuck they might be outclassed by, Venomoth's pros outweigh those of Butterfree. No, Butterfree does not suck and is not useless, but Venomoth is the all-around better Pokemon with better stats, better movepool and being able to pull off more movesets. Delcatty is the only Pokemon that can T-Wave Ground Types and the only Normal Pokemon that gets STAB on Sucker Punch. So it must have a niche in OU, and is therefore better than Venomoth, right? That's your very same logic in action, and you can't only apply it wherever it's convenient for you and think it's gonna fly. It fails on every other occasion.
All of these Pokemon are OU, ya git. Venomoth does not directly compete with them. Just because Butterfree has a unique moveset that it can pull off in OU does not make it top-tier or better than Venomoth, and this is even further proven by the fact that Pokemon don't get tiered according to whether they are outclassed by things (Do you see Blaziken in UU?). Otherwise, again we could compare Delcatty to DD Feraligatr and say it's better because it's the only Pokemon that gets Normal Type Sucker Punch and T-Wave. Individual does not = better.
Turn 1 is the turn you use the attack
Turn 2 is the turn you switch
Turn 3 is your sole attack.
At least thats how I seem to remember it working. Its still not really worth it even if there are 2 turns.
Butterfree is hardly better than Venomoth at Doublepowder considering Venomoth can do something Butterfree can't: Break 300 Speed.
Yeah, 97.5% powders is cool. Getting slaughtered before you can use them isn't.
Venomoth is the only Doublepoweder pokemon that can break 300 speed. It may have less accuracy than Butterfree but it can hit more targets.
Moreover, after Sleep Powder Venomoth can do any number of things from predicting a switch with Stun Spore, set up a Sub to Pass or use Bug Buzz.
Fact is since Butterfree can't break 300 speed the Base 100 speed pokemon all maul it horribly.
Oh, and aside from Shadow Ball, Moth does everything Butterfree does. Since all Shadow Ball hits are Ghosts (most of which own Butterfree) and Psychics (hit harder with Bug Buzz) its a pretty LOL option.
Venomoth can use Roost, it just doesn't have a flying type to remove.
Yeah, 97.5% powders is cool. Getting slaughtered before you can use them isn't.
Venomoth is the only Doublepoweder pokemon that can break 300 speed. It may have less accuracy than Butterfree but it can hit more targets.
Moreover, after Sleep Powder Venomoth can do any number of things from predicting a switch with Stun Spore, set up a Sub to Pass or use Bug Buzz.
Fact is since Butterfree can't break 300 speed the Base 100 speed pokemon all maul it horribly.
Oh, and aside from Shadow Ball, Moth does everything Butterfree does. Since all Shadow Ball hits are Ghosts (most of which own Butterfree) and Psychics (hit harder with Bug Buzz) its a pretty LOL option.
Venomoth can use Roost, it just doesn't have a flying type to remove.
Moth all the ways. =(
Now someone, make a bee thread so I can bash Beedrill and shamelessly plug Vespiquen.
Now someone, make a bee thread so I can bash Beedrill and shamelessly plug Vespiquen.
Heh, another funny thing about Venomoth, is that it can also go with certain physical moves to help out many of its utility movesets.
Eg. Bug Bite is immensely useful when using Baton Pass on the same moveset. It allows you to steal berries from little assholes like Yanmega with their Petayas, or any Salac/Liechi berry user. Then you can Baton Pass the boosts which is incredibly useful since you might also pass your sub as well.
Then you've got that awesome Screech + U-Turn combo which allows you to force switches incredibly well and punish them too with Toxic Spikes. It also lets you see what they're switching in. Granted, Flygon can probably do that combo better, but Venomoth can still do it relatively well since it still has a damn near unresisted Bug Buzz to work with using Tinted Lens.
Now granted those are probably the only two physical moves he would ever be using, but I thought it deserved a mention.
Eg. Bug Bite is immensely useful when using Baton Pass on the same moveset. It allows you to steal berries from little assholes like Yanmega with their Petayas, or any Salac/Liechi berry user. Then you can Baton Pass the boosts which is incredibly useful since you might also pass your sub as well.
Then you've got that awesome Screech + U-Turn combo which allows you to force switches incredibly well and punish them too with Toxic Spikes. It also lets you see what they're switching in. Granted, Flygon can probably do that combo better, but Venomoth can still do it relatively well since it still has a damn near unresisted Bug Buzz to work with using Tinted Lens.
Now granted those are probably the only two physical moves he would ever be using, but I thought it deserved a mention.
I personally like Butterfree the best. I always used Butterfree in R/B/Y because Ash always used it [I was in 2nd grade, lay off lol]. All the other "Butterflies" aren't as cool as Butterfree.
Also, you forgot Masquerain.
Also, you forgot Masquerain.
Umm with only 70 base speed Butterfree is still going to get smooshed if it tries to ever come in when there's Stealth Rock up.
Butterfree can only put ONE thing to sleep at a time because of sleep clause so after that one Sleep Powder it's not going to be forcing anymore switches to Roost.
Seriously, so many attacks can OHKO Butterfree that it's not even funny, and it's never going to get a chance to Roost after it does that one switch.
This is why Butterfree is recommended as a lead, and only a lead. It's way too hard to get in after its put that pokemon to sleep since there's not only stealth rock, but there's also an attack that often happens when a pokemon switches in, so Butterfree will get murdered. Roost really is not viable on Butterfree.
^ For once I agree with Majesty. Literally... first time...
But as far as the TV show goes, Onix > all
ROOOARR!!!
But as far as the TV show goes, Onix > all
ROOOARR!!!
People seem to forget about tinted-lens Yanmega with Air Slash and Bug Buzz, which offers complete coverage, 0 immunities, 95 base speed and a heck of a lot more Sp. Atk than Venomoth...
And because Yanmega isn't a butterfly... I'd say Butterfree wins. Venomoth has a nice use taking up toxic spikes however. (wtf??)