Scizor [QC: 3/4]

[Super Mario Bro]

I do not think Bullet Punch is absolutely necessary on the Baton Pass set. For BP Chains that do not pass Attack boosts, Bullet Punch is fairly useless, since it would be coming off of zero investment in that stat. For this reason, Roost should be slashed in both slots three and four.

Additionally, Agility should be in set details.

 

[CyclicCompound]

I would actually mention Defog in the moves section, or even slash it, depending on what QC says. I find it extremely useful to have Defog on a BP team—seeing as ALL entry hazards will affect incoming Pokemon even if they are BP'd a Substitute—and because being able to boost in the face of hazard setters, knowing that you're just getting free turns, is really nice. Scizor is one of the few Pokemon that learns Defog and BP, the others are Gliscor, Mew, and Smeargle, which are all viable choices as well, but it's definitely plausible that the defogging duties will fall to Scizor.

I'm partial to slashing it, probably after Bullet Punch. But I'm not QC, so maybe wait for other people to input.

 

[Jukain]

well you need sub / roost / iron defense / bp, so how exactly is that gonna work well?

 

[CyclicCompound]

well you need sub / roost / iron defense / bp, so how exactly is that gonna work well?

Iron Defense isn't 100% mandatory. Scolipede and Mawile among others can easily provide defense boosts.

 

[Unowninator]

Defog
########
name: Defog
move 1: Defog
move 2: Roost
move 3: Bullet Punch / Knock Off
move 4: U-turn
ability: Technician
item: Scizorite / Leftovers
nature: Impish
evs: 252 HP / Def 252 / Atk 4

I just noticed that if you use Knock Off instead of Bullet Punch, Technician becomes useless. So I think you should slash Swarm for U-Turn, or Light Metal for handling Low Kick.

 

[Seth Vilo]

I just noticed that if you use Knock Off instead of Bullet Punch, Technician becomes useless. So I think you should slash Swarm for U-Turn, or Light Metal for handling Low Kick.

The problem then is that if its going Super Saiyan Mega, it has no choice but to be using Technician. Either alternative ability could work if you're not running Bullet Punch, but with Scizorite being the first slash, most times it's going to end up with Technician anyway. If not going Mega, then yes either ability could work. Maybe not worth of an ability slash, but for sure worth comments in the set.

 

[Jukain]

If it's gonna be useless slash it yeah even though it barely matters.

 

[alexwolf]

Light Metal is always the better ability as it's the only one that has a tangible benefit, which is to reduce damage from Low Kick and Grass Knot. The other two abilities are 100% useless, as by the time you use an attack you will already have MEvolved.

 

[Unowninator]

Light Metal is always the better ability as it's the only one that has a tangible benefit, which is to reduce damage from Low Kick and Grass Knot. The other two abilities are 100% useless, as by the time you use an attack you will already have MEvolved.

Well I'm certainly glad that someone agrees with me. :) Thanks.

 

[Magcargo]

ShootingStarmie A few minor suggestions

• In the overview, there should be some mention of Defog and Scizor's new Mega Evolution, both of which being significant tools Scizor received in the transition to XY
• The Choice Band set, while good, is not Scizor's best set this generation. I personally think that the Offensive Swords Dance set is its best set, as it can find plenty of opportunities to setup
• In OO, you mention Acrobatics to hit Jellicent, when it is already hit hard by Knock Off. This mention should be replaced with Keldeo
• Thief should be mentioned in OO as a more consistent alternative to Knock Off
• This is a somewhat drastic change, but I think the Offensive Swords Dance set should be changed to this:

Offensive Swords Dance
########
name: Offensive Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Bullet Punch
move 3: U-turn / Bug Bite
move 4: Knock Off
item: Scizorite / Life Orb
ability: Technician
nature: Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

• From my experience using the Swords Dance set, I have found the Scizorite to be much more useful than the Life Orb, as it increases Scizor's setup opportunities and Speed, while also not wearing it down like the LO does. The LO is still slashed, as it can replace the Scizorite if using another Mega evolution. I have also found U-Turn to be more useful than Bug Bite, as it gives Scizor momentum against some of its counters such as defensive Rotom-W, while also allowing Scizor to function as an offensive pivot. Bug Bite is still slashed for a more reliable alternative.

I'm not QC however, so these changes do not need to be implemented.

 

[Timpsu]

If deemed viable/relevant enough, I'd like to see Chesnaught mentioned as a check. Chesnaught can work well even against +2 (M)Scizor, putting down Leech Seed and harassing w/Spiky Shield. Scizor is also one of the rare Defoggers Chesnaught can actually beat. Even the BP set can be Roared, given there's no Mr.Mime switching in.

 

[ShootingStarmie]

Hi, sorry for not updating this for a while, but I'm here to update with these changes

• Mentioned Defog in overview
  
• Mentioned it's Mega Evolution
• In OO, changed Jellicent's mention to Keldeo
• Changed the main SD set to Marcago's changes
• Mentioned Chesnaught in Counters section

TL;DR I done basically everything Marcargo suggested, thanks for the awesome input

 

[Hibiki]

At the risk of sounding like the douche I am, considering it barely matters, I'm gonna point out what was said a couple posts up since it looks like you haven't noticed. Every Scizorite slash should have Light Metal as its ability since you won't be attacking 'til you Mega Evolve. You'll take half damage from the theoretical low kick that you might switch into once in your entire life. Technically it's optimal! Credit to Unknowninator for his genius.

 

[Bravadorado]

I'm behind the times, what happened to assault vest scizor?

 

[Jukain]

defog zor is a great pivot and defog user in this meta. sd suffers from things like talonflame, charizard, keldeo, etc. being common. not to say sd is bad, but defog is easily set #2. i talked to fuzznip about this, and he agrees. also based on what smb + cc said about bp and me agreeing with them, for baton pass put

move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Iron Defense / Roost / Defog
move 4: Roost / Bullet Punch

agility and sd (for supplementary attacker mega mawile if you want) in moves

 

[alexwolf]

Remove Defog, Baton Pass teams don't need it. Other than that, the Baton Pass set that Jukain mentioned is good.

 

[CyclicCompound]

Remove Defog, Baton Pass teams don't need it. Other than that, the Baton Pass set that Jukain mentioned is good.

I'm strongly in support of Defog. Toxic Spikes and Sticky Web can be a pretty massive headache, and though they're rare, it's not really a good idea for any strategy/team to have a hard counter in the form of a few moves (although it can be argued that Prankster Taunt can be a hard counter if used at the right time). Since they're generally laid down at the beginning of a battle, it's not really easy to switch Espeon into any common user other than Smeargle.

 

[PurpleCordial]

Pretty sure the reference to Genesect should be removed from the overview

 

[alexwolf]

I'm strongly in support of Defog. Toxic Spikes and Sticky Web can be a pretty massive headache, and though they're rare, it's not really a good idea for any strategy/team to have a hard counter in the form of a few moves (although it can be argued that Prankster Taunt can be a hard counter if used at the right time). Since they're generally laid down at the beginning of a battle, it's not really easy to switch Espeon into any common user other than Smeargle.

Toxic Spikes are non-existent in this metagame, and Sticky Web is pretty rare too, so Defog can be mentioned in ''Moves'' but not in the main set, it's too situational.

 

[Swamp-Rocket]

The ordering for your EVs has some errors (2nd and 3rd sets), be sure to fix them please...

 

[Jukain]

Toxic Spikes are non-existent in this metagame, and Sticky Web is pretty rare too, so Defog can be mentioned in ''Moves'' but not in the main set, it's too situational.

Also, Stealth Rock and Spikes wear down BP teams and are overall really annoying. I fully support Defog on the set, as it's an excellent option to stop that wearing down.

 

[alexwolf]

I am not denying the usefulness of Defog, but compared to Iron Defense and Roost, Defog is way more situational, and this is why it should be in 'Moves'.

 

[Alter]

On top of what alexwolf said, Baton Pass teams run Scolipede to get rid of Toxic Spikes, and Stealth Rock / Spikes can be reflected by Espeon (or just give free set up turns tbh). I agree with it being put into moves.

 

[CyclicCompound]

I am not denying the usefulness of Defog, but compared to Iron Defense and Roost, Defog is way more situational, and this is why it should be in 'Moves'.

Yes, Defog is situational, but think about it this way: there are more than enough viable passers of defense boosts (Mew, Vaporeon, Scolipede, Mawile, Mr. Mime, etc.), but only a few viable Defoggers (Mega Scizor, Mew, Gliscor). Using Gliscor without Poison Heal sucks (plus the fact that Gliscor can only pass Attack and Speed boosts), and Mew tends to be way too bogged down with 4MSS to even consider running Defog. So I'd argue that in the end, Mega Scizor is the Pokemon on a Baton Pass team most likely to run Defog in any given scenario, so it should slashed.

In other words, in my opinion, the exclusiveness of Defog is the factor that lets it deserve a slash.

 

[jc104]

Well, if you want to put defog on your bp team, then I suppose scizor is the best place to put it, but you really don't need defog. SR and spikes are nothing but a minor annoyance, and sticky web and tspikes are rare and blocked by sub (and tspikes are absorbed by scolipede). Besides, if your opponent is setting up hazards against you, they're probably making a severe error. Baton pass teams are by far the most vulnerable in the early stages, when they haven't got any defense boosts up yet. Allowing a free sub at the beginning is all that's needed to get the ball rolling.

There is a point to having multiple defense boosters, as you need to wall different things. It's imperative that you get defensive boosts up early. Assuming that there is a reason to use scizor at all, there is something which, out of the members of your team, only scizor can capably wall. If scizor is incapable of setting up boosts, then your baton pass chain is completely halted by that pokemon. It can do whatever it wants (running pokemon without boosting moves is the best way to get hazards set up on you in the first place!). Iron defense is completely non-optional. If you aren't using iron defense, you should be reconsidering your choice of scizor in the first place. If you really want defog, it should be either over sub or roost.