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Scizor [QC: 3/4]
- Thread starter ShootingStarmie
- Start date
This analysis needs a BP set IMO:
name: Baton Pass
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Iron Defense
move 3: Substitute / Roost
move 4: Bullet Punch
item: Leftovers
ability: Technician
evs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
nature: Careful
Considering you're already gonna have Speed boosts, you don't need to run Speed.
Anyways Scizor is a good Pokemon on Baton Pass teams and should have a set. It is a common Iron Defense passer and an important Fairy check. Not a whole lot else to say. It's a staple BP mon.
name: Baton Pass
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Iron Defense
move 3: Substitute / Roost
move 4: Bullet Punch
item: Leftovers
ability: Technician
evs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
nature: Careful
Considering you're already gonna have Speed boosts, you don't need to run Speed.
Anyways Scizor is a good Pokemon on Baton Pass teams and should have a set. It is a common Iron Defense passer and an important Fairy check. Not a whole lot else to say. It's a staple BP mon.
Added an OO section and a Baton Pass set.
mentioned
Just nitpicking here, but Scolipede is a much more viable Speed Boost BPer than Ninjask this generation. Not only does it have significantly better bulk than Ninjask, but it can also pass Iron Defense boosts in addition to Swords Dance, making it much more flexible as a teammate than Ninjask is.
Though both have problems with Heatran (especially with the nerf to Protect) and Crobat (Taunt + Infiltrator Brave Bird). The protect nerf and Infiltrator buf unfortunately make baton pass not as effective this gen.
I'm still in full support of a Baton Pass set with mention of Scolipede. Keep in mind that the set you're talking about is one meant for dedicated Baton Pass teams. Crobat is irrelevant, and despite how much Heatran's access to Roar may threaten a BP team, it can't do anything to well-built BP chains with Pokemon such as Mr. Mime and Espeon able to frustrate it easily. Having enough speed to BP out of threats is crucial to the functionality of any BP team, and as it stands, Scolipede happens to be arguably the best passer of speed boosts, so I wouldn't remove mention of it.
Not knocking that, but the problem is that if you lead with BP Scoli or Ninjask and your opponent has the tran (or any other phazer) you are in a heap of trouble. I only mentioned Crobat just because it is arguably the best user of Infiltrator (and it hits hard enough with brave bird) Noivern is a close second and Spiritomb is right behind (be especially careful of Trick-Band). Ironically, Scizor is decent against BP teams since Mr. Mime is now Bullet Punch-weak and Knock off just hurts if you do not have a sub, and it can pick off weakened things with BP.
Again, I am not saying Baton Pass is dead, but it definitely got a lot of nerfs (if anything) this gen.
Hey, I know it's been a while since you made this comment, but I actually happened to be playing around with a Scizor utilizing both SD and U-turn on a team today, and I absolutely love it. I know I'm not QC, but I can definitely vouch for a set like what you described. What I was using was:
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Bullet Punch
move 3: U-turn
move 4: Knock Off
item: Scizorite
ability: Technician
nature: Adamant
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
I assume that's similar to what you were running in reference to your post. But the bottom line is, this set is awesome because it combines so many aspects of Scizor gameplay into one set—and it can actually pull it off. SD and Bullet Punch lets Scizor sweep late-game just like other offensive sets, and despite the fact that this Scizor is marginally less powerful than LO versions, it's still been getting the job done consistently in my experience. Knock Off is really just filler, but it does come in handy for annoying Aegislash and Heatran on the switch. U-turn, however, is what's been netting me so much success—Scizor has so many checks (mostly defensive) that are slower than it when Scizor has maximum speed investment (defensive variants of Rotom-W, Venusaur, and Mandibuzz come to mind, all who can threaten Scizor in some way), and U-turn takes a solid chunk out of each of them, even when unboosted. Plus it grabs momentum, as always. Another important thing about having U-turn on the set, however, is that it allows Scizor to boost with impunity if one of the defensive checks mentioned should exist. Say Scizor forces something out, boosts to +2 on the switch, and the opponent sends in Rotom-W. Normally, +2 Bug Bite can't OHKO, so Scizor would end up getting burnt. However, U-turn will take up to around 75% of Rotom-W's health while guaranteeing that Scizor stays free of any burn. I'd say that's an awesome trade-off.
As for the item I decided to use, having 70/140/100 defenses gives you the bulk to repeatedly switch in and perform the multiple roles highlighted above, and the lack of LO recoil really helps Scizor contribute throughout the whole match. I paired this thing with Sylveon and its Wish support, and the combo is deadly effective.
So yeah, I'm not QC in any way, shape, or form, but I really love how this set's been working out for me. TBQH I prefer this set to the normal offensive set because it's a lot more useful even when Scizor's checks haven't been completely weakened/removed, as Scizor can actually partake in the weakening of those checks.
I'd like to post one of my own sets that works well
name:double dancer
Move 1:swords dance
Move 2:agility
Move 3:bug bite
Move. 4:iron head/brick break
Item:scizorite/life orb
Ability:technician
Evs:252atk/252spe
Nature:adamant/jolly
It is a lot better if it is holding scizorite and if it is, use adamant as it doesn't need the extra speed. You can run life orb if u want but if you do then a jolly nature is better.
You can set up with either setup move depending on the situation and a +2 bug bite is extremely powerful. If you set up both, it's pretty much gg. If you are running iron head, you want to weaken fire types before sweeping especially heatran. Nobody expects this and you can bluff bullet punch to find a setup opportunity ;)
name:double dancer
Move 1:swords dance
Move 2:agility
Move 3:bug bite
Move. 4:iron head/brick break
Item:scizorite/life orb
Ability:technician
Evs:252atk/252spe
Nature:adamant/jolly
It is a lot better if it is holding scizorite and if it is, use adamant as it doesn't need the extra speed. You can run life orb if u want but if you do then a jolly nature is better.
You can set up with either setup move depending on the situation and a +2 bug bite is extremely powerful. If you set up both, it's pretty much gg. If you are running iron head, you want to weaken fire types before sweeping especially heatran. Nobody expects this and you can bluff bullet punch to find a setup opportunity ;)
irc monologue:
So, yeah, i think that Scizornite should be slashed first on the Defog set and that the ev spread should be changed.
04:57alexwolf - i don't like the current EV spread on Defog Scizor
04:57alexwolf - not to mention that Scizorite should be slashed first
04:57 *** dice quit (Ping timeout)
04:58alexwolf - Mega Scizor is one of the best Pokemon to tank Knock Offs with
04:58alexwolf - and it also checks/counters a ton of physical attackers with Def investment
04:58 *** SMB joined #xyqc
04:58alexwolf - such as Terrakion, Excadrill, physical Kyu-B
04:58alexwolf - and can even act as an emergency pivot against Mega Pinsir
04:59alexwolf - not to mention that most sr users are physical based
04:59alexwolf - and special bulk doesn't rly help vs the most common special one, heatran
05:00ashborer - mega scizor is good against pretty much all kyube but hp fire variants
05:00alexwolf - yeah, but without def investment you can be 2HKOed by Fusion Bolt from physical variants
05:00alexwolf - not that this is the reason i am advocating for defense investment
05:01 *** PKGaming quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
05:01alexwolf - so basically, Mega Defog Scizor should be running Max HP / max Def+
05:01alexwolf - avoids 2HKO from LO Terrakion and LO Adamant Excadrill after SR
05:01alexwolf - iirc
04:57alexwolf - not to mention that Scizorite should be slashed first
04:57 *** dice quit (Ping timeout)
04:58alexwolf - Mega Scizor is one of the best Pokemon to tank Knock Offs with
04:58alexwolf - and it also checks/counters a ton of physical attackers with Def investment
04:58 *** SMB joined #xyqc
04:58alexwolf - such as Terrakion, Excadrill, physical Kyu-B
04:58alexwolf - and can even act as an emergency pivot against Mega Pinsir
04:59alexwolf - not to mention that most sr users are physical based
04:59alexwolf - and special bulk doesn't rly help vs the most common special one, heatran
05:00ashborer - mega scizor is good against pretty much all kyube but hp fire variants
05:00alexwolf - yeah, but without def investment you can be 2HKOed by Fusion Bolt from physical variants
05:00alexwolf - not that this is the reason i am advocating for defense investment
05:01 *** PKGaming quit (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
05:01alexwolf - so basically, Mega Defog Scizor should be running Max HP / max Def+
05:01alexwolf - avoids 2HKO from LO Terrakion and LO Adamant Excadrill after SR
05:01alexwolf - iirc
So, yeah, i think that Scizornite should be slashed first on the Defog set and that the ev spread should be changed.
The different nature is not such a big deal, but it's not like you are missing out on net stat points by going with +Def instead of +Atk. After all, Mega Scizor's Def is only 10 points lower than its Atk, and it's fully invested. Also, the +Def nature allows you to avoid the 2HKO from things such as Adamant LO Mamo's EQ, Adamant LO Exca's EQ, and Jolly LO Terrakion's CC, which are all very difficult Pokemon to wall. And, as far as i am conerned, the extra Atk from Adamant doesn't do much, but i might be missing something. Anyway, the main thing i want us to implement on Defog Mega Scizor is max Def instead of the focus on special bulk.
252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Scizor: 144-172 (41.8 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Scizor: 136-161 (39.5 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
With SR they both have a chance to 2HKO. I agree with you completely on how it should be more physically defensive, but maybe we should have a different benchmark, like avoiding the 2HKO from Kyurem-B's Fusion Bolt etc? I'll edit the OP for now with these EVs, and I'll put Scizorite as the first slash
If Scizor is switching in to Defog, hazards are on the field and surviving hits without Stealth Rock becomes irrelevant. If you meant that Scizor has Defog support from another pokemon then these calcs become much more relevant.
I meant that Scizor can get rid of SR before those Pokemon come in.
Regardless, Scizor will have switched into Stealth Rock in order to remove it and will have taken damage.
Not if it switches in as SR is used, which he can do against many SR setters, such as Tyranitar without Fire Blast, Excadrill, Landorus-T, Terrakion, lead Mamo, and Celebi.
Or better yet, use him with a VoltTurn team (something Scizor is famous for). Scizor/Mega Scizor can handle a lot of SR setters on its own (especially Mamoswine, Terrakion, Celebi and TTar like you mentioned). Pair it up with a Rotom-W for Lando and you are golden. You can even pack a fighting move for Ferro or Knock off for bulky Lando-T, if that floats your boat.
EDIT: Also wanted to say that, in the OP section on the Defog set, you forget that Psyshock hits on the physical side, not special.
Isn't what you originally said but the point stands, especially on the VoltTurn teams that (Mega-)Scizor is so good on. This gives him a big reason to be used over Genesect on such teams, any advantage over Genesect is welcome for (Mega-)Scizor.
This may be just me, but I think that on the Defog set, Superpower is usually more valuable of a move than Bullet Punch or Knock Off.
Superpower allows you to handle big threats like Lucario and Bisharp (who could otherwise switch in on a Defog, get Atk+2 and setup on you or KO a switch-in) and also do a hefty amount of damage to Heatran. Un-invested Bullet Punch is just too weak imo.
Superpower allows you to handle big threats like Lucario and Bisharp (who could otherwise switch in on a Defog, get Atk+2 and setup on you or KO a switch-in) and also do a hefty amount of damage to Heatran. Un-invested Bullet Punch is just too weak imo.
Say, this may sound stupid, but for the Mega set, I personally think the ability should be Light Metal so if you need to, you can switch into Low Kick without taking as much damage. And besides, you're going to get Technician anyway as soon as you mega-evolve.