The only time either Flatter or Swagger add anything is in Doubles gimmick strats.I would take it one step further and make the ban simpler - just ban Flatter. It doesn't add anything to the meta and physical flatter is basically swagger in use.
Because the goal is to hit Lilligant with Special Swagger while it Quiver Dances, thus giving you a Lilligant with +3 Sp. Atk and +1 Speed to go on a Petal Dance-spamming rampage.it already gets teeter dance why special swagger and not that
Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Silver Wind
- Knock Off
- Bullet Punch
- Hidden Power [Ground]
CB scizor with better STAB and extra coverage
Thanks for the sets, I'll add them to the OP soon.Raichu @ Focus Sash
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Knock Off
raichu is also surprisingly less shit.
Camerupt-Mega @ Cameruptite
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 248 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
- Stealth Rock
mega camerupt isnt bad either.
Altaria-Mega @ Altarianite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Dance
- Return
special DD, EQ and Return are p sweet.
Crobat @ Black Sludge
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Nasty Plot
- Heat Wave
- Brave Bird
Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave
- Thunderbolt
Aurorus @ Choice Specs
Ability: Refrigerate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earthquake
- Frustration
- Freeze-Dry
- Stone Edge
Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Drain Punch
- Psyshock
Dragalge @ Choice Specs
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 200 HP / 252 SpA / 56 Spe
Modest Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Outrage
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Focus Blast / Scald
holy shit adaptability special gunk shot.
Tauros (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flamethrower
- Rock Climb
- Ice Beam
- Rock Slide
Gallade-Mega (M) @ Galladite
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Psyshock
- Vacuum Wave
- Close Combat
- Shadow Ball
It also gains physical Heat Wave which is BIG deal for Swellow as it gains really strong attack against those Steel types it despises normally. Heck, it may even run random Hidden Power now when it's physical to maul what walls it normally (Tyranitar ? HP Fighting Him. Heatran ? HP Ground it to oblivion, etc.) Heck, Swellow in this metagame looks like one of the best cleaners around. Incredible speed, good power with Guts and it's immune to random prankster status users like Sableye or Thundurus.All it would really be is Facade that goes through subs with half the PP.
No, I mean that Empoleon could become the special Bisharp. Y'know, with special Defiant, Aqua Jet for revenge killing and Knock Off. Sorry for the confusion.Too bad bisharp has a horrible sp.attack seriously just use physical
Firstly, this is not a pet mod :PSo assuming Special Defiant is a thing in this Pet Mod: Special Bisharp.
I'll ask around, in that case.is this playable? if not, can anyone code this?
Silly me. :PFirstly, this is not a pet mod :P
Secondly, abilities aren't affected by Offensification. The mod would only work for moves. So sorry, Empoleon won't be a Special version of Bisharp.
Wish it was, but nope. Not yet.I think it is playble at aqua
No one?But on the topic, should Special Swagger be unbanned?
No. It should not.Wish it was, but nope. Not yet.
No one?
Because...Why don't we avoid these complex bans and simply ban both swagger and flatter
does it really change? from special to physical?So is it the highest base attack stat that determines physical/special moves, or is it the highest at that moment, including stat changes? If it's highest including stat changes, then you can manipulate which category you want to use.
Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 128 Atk / 128 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Overheat
- Grass Knot/Hidden Power Ice
- Earthquake
- Superpower
With equal attack stats, the moves' categories are mixed to begin. But as soon as you use Overheat, Ape's SpA drops and the set turns physical. If you use Superpower first, Atk drops and the set turns special. You could then get another shot from Overheat/Superpower after it's changed stat too. Handy for wrong-footing walls.
That's if the mechanics allow for stat changes. If not, then this is a fairly underpowered Mixape from Gen IV :)
If you want a genuine mixed attacker:
Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 28 Atk / 228 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
Mence has 313 in both Atk and SpA. This means it can do its regular wallbreaking trick of using Draco Meteor, then following up with Outrage. It plays just like normal (possibly the only thing in this meta that does).
So is it the highest base attack stat that determines physical/special moves, or is it the highest at that moment, including stat changes? If it's highest including stat changes, then you can manipulate which category you want to use.
Highest total stat affects the category of the move, not including stat changes.does it really change? from special to physical?
Same here :]As if offense wasn't good enough already....
Roserade @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Energy Ball/Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Whatever coverage you want
All of Roserade's move-pool becomes physical with this spread and therefore boosted by Swords Dance. After a SD, Roserade's Attack reaches 524, meaning it can now sweep right through teams.
Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sludge Bomb
- Drain Punch
- Vacuum Wave
In the same boat as Roserade, Toxicroak's higher Attack stat means Sludge Bomb and Vacuum Wave are physical. No more lack of Mach Punch!
And finally:
Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD or 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Calm Mind/Psychic
Diancie now gets a special Rock STAB! Alternatively, you can adjust the EVs to make Moonblast physical.
Boosting moves change though, right? So Sunkern's Swords Dance would actually boost Special Attack. (Although it needs 4 EVs to actually make the stats different.) Speaking of that…Highest total stat affects the category of the move, not including stat changes.
Say, a Sunkern with 2 EVs in Special Attack, and No EVs in Attack.
This Sunkern will then use Seed Bomb. Because it has a higher Special Attack, Seed Bomb is Special.
Then, this Sunkern uses Swords Dance.
Then it uses Seed Bomb again, but Seed Bomb is still special.
Hope you got the jist of it, and I'll add those sets to the OP asap. :]
Same here :]
Roserade there actually can run Special to get a Special Swords Dance. It could also run Technician with Hidden Power and Special Bullet Seed.As if offense wasn't good enough already....
Roserade @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Energy Ball/Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Whatever coverage you want
All of Roserade's move-pool becomes physical with this spread and therefore boosted by Swords Dance. After a SD, Roserade's Attack reaches 524, meaning it can now sweep right through teams.
Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sludge Bomb
- Drain Punch
- Vacuum Wave
In the same boat as Roserade, Toxicroak's higher Attack stat means Sludge Bomb and Vacuum Wave are physical. No more lack of Mach Punch!
And finally:
Diancie @ Diancite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD or 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Moonblast
- Earth Power
- Calm Mind/Psychic
Diancie now gets a special Rock STAB! Alternatively, you can adjust the EVs to make Moonblast physical.
My mistake, it's pretty late. :/Boosting moves change though, right? So Sunkern's Swords Dance would actually boost Special Attack. (Although it needs 4 EVs to actually make the stats different.) Speaking of that…
Roserade there actually can run Special to get a Special Swords Dance. It could also run Technician with Hidden Power and Special Bullet Seed.
Diancie can make Calm Mind physical to run a full physical offence set. Will-O-Wisp doesn't hurt her because of Magic Bounce, and Water weakness ensures she's not tanking Scalds anyway so the burn chance is irrelevant on those. Non-Mega Diancie can choose to make Gyro Ball Special, as well.
Edit: Question: We've already established that moves that boost both offence and defence have both of their stats changed (physical Calm Mind gives +1 Atk/+1 Def, rather than +1 Atk/+1 Sp. Def). How does this interact with boosting moves that only increase defences? Do those change too? And if so, is that based on your higher offence stat, or your higher defence stat? Because I can see some neat tricks with high Def/low Sp. Def walls running a bit of Special Attack to get Special Iron Defense.