np: UU - The Brave and the Bold (Nominations) (TOO LATE)

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Komodo

Huff
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Offensive Characteristics
A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.

Arcanine

I belive arcanine is too powerful for the UU tier because of its offensive characteristics, with a base 110 attack, a base of 100 special attack and a base 95 speed this is capable of sweeping many pokemon in the metagame. Flare blitz gives arcanine a 120 base power STAB attack at its disposal.
Many of the current UU walls can be broken with arcanines above average sweeping abilities, with arcanines special sweeping abilities Hidden power grass can take care of Claydol and Slowbro with choice specs or mixed sweeper sets, overheat Will take care of most other physical walls.
Looking over arcanines movepool it has potentially deadly options. These include :

Thunder Fang - Hits water and flying types very hard
Extremespeed - 100 base power priority move that allows arcanine to finish off weakened opponents
Fire Fang - Powerful STAB attack that gives the chance to flinch or burn the opponent
Flare blitz - 120 base power STAB will put a huge dent into most of the other pokemon in the current UU tier.
Howl - Raises arcanine's already high attacking stat.
Hidden power - Grass / Electric / Ground - Hidden power grass will hit almost all physical walls for great damage
Iron Head - Hits rock types that resist Flare Blitz
Agility - Probably better on mixed sweeper sets and allows arcanine to outrun all pokemon after one agility even if it has no speed ev's
Fire Blast - 120 base power special STAB, helps break walls such as weezing
Overheat - 150 base power STAB special attack, another wall breaking move.
Dragon Pulse - On mixed sets nothing resists the dragon/fire combo since there is no heatran around.

Arcanines total base stats add to 555, not much different to some of the OU beasts.


Results
Komodo: Arcanine | Rejected, bad everything. (0 noms).
 

Matthew

I love weather; Sun for days
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Ok, lets see if I can do this decently.

The first pokemon I want to suggest is Staraptor. He is quite the pokemon, carrying speed and a lot of power when holding a Choice Band. In fact there are really only a few pokemon that can come in on a Choice Band Return without the fear of a 2HKO. Those are the Ghost types who can be OHKO'd by Brave Bird. I wouldn't say that Staraptor can come in on anything and threaten it, but it can come in on a lot of pokemon and scare them off. If you remove the Ghost types from your opponents team, stopping a Staraptor becomes extremely difficult, you would be sacrificing 2-3 pokemon if you would stand a shot at killing it (Garchomp anyone?).

Over watching the metagame and seeing the RMT's it is rare to find one that doesn't carry a Staraptor, or that doesn't have an answer to one. Sorry if this was poor.

Results

Gen. Empoleon: Staraptor | Borderline Rejecting, lacked specificity (0 noms).
 



I would like to nominate Raikou for being moved up to BL from UU. I've been using Raikou on my Rain Dance UU team since I started playing on ShoddyBattle, and I've found that a STAB Thunderbolt combined with Calm Mind can absolutely decimate teams. In my battle experiences, I've been able to OHKO with Thunderbolt on neutral and even, in rare cases, types that resist Electric. This leads to Raikou sweeping through 3 or 4 Pokemon with one or two hit KOs a piece. I understand that Raikou's movepool is very limited, much less than its fellow dog Suicune, and I understand that there are better Electric types for the job that Raikou needs to do, but a Calm Mind Raikou outclasses far too many Pokemon in UU and thus, Raikou needs to be moved up to BL.


Buttttt should we decide to keep it in UU I won't mind at all ;DD

Results
Geoxphz: Raikou | Rejected (0 noms).
 
Well I may not have as much backing as everyone else but I still have my votes.
Gallade- two great stab attacking types. Great movepool and Great attack that lone should be enough to bump it to bl. I mean the thing was ou not too long ago we all know it's too strong for UU.

Gligar- Why aren't more people supporting this guy or even using him. Pretty excellent typing. Stabbed EQ with a few other good attack moves. Isn't really fast but isn't really slow and a nice attack. Two immunites to popular attacking types. With a SD or agility (both of which moves he can use) with or without a focus sash this guy can just tear through teams. And he isn't exactly fragile either

Crobat- My favorite UU lead and maybe favorite uu pokemon. I have only used his bravebat set and that's really all you need. Though this guy does have a bunch of other options. Bravebat just messes people up.
Bravebird
Roost
Sub
Taunt At max speed 104 hp and 152 attack, jolly nature
Bravebird is just powerful and Crobat can just roost of the damage later. Taunt messes around with a variety of leads usually after a taunt the opponent switches giving Batty a free sub. There are alot of different situations I could go into but I won't. Bravebat leads very well but can also come back late game and sweep. He is incredible.

I have a couple other names I want to nominate, I'll give the reasons later but here are the names.
Staraptor
Slaking
Slowbro
Raikou
Mespirit

Results
Beef 2.0: All | Rejected, very shallow reasons ( 0 noms).
 
Shaymin should be BL

Shaymin should be BL. It has good overall stats, which is only one reason that separates it from other grass types. it has seed flare which does a ton of damage and can drop spec def 40% of the time. even if it is resisted, there is a good chance it will still hurt them, and drop their spec def. Shaymin should be moved up cuz it does just enuff to be put at BL and can sweep most uu teams.



Offensive Characteristics
A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.

Results
pokewiz: Shaymin | Rejected, far too vague (0 noms).
 
Uh yeah here are my BL nominees

Umbreon has too much defense for UU I do not think a powered up drifblim +1 +3 or +2 +2 could kill it nor a kangaskhan a commonly used physical sweeper, I also think the right umbreon could mess up any uu with almost any set. team It may have low attack But It will overpower stalling and BP Chains in UU.

Shaymin No "extra/cheat pokemon" should be UU it may have a bad move pool but it's stats are just to huge to be uu at 100's all around Natural cure and aromatherapy are anti-status and if I know UU status is a common thing in UU

I'm all for Staraptor being uu but with that said It just has too high of a speed atk combo and learns close combat. It also is a force to be reckoned with when made right

I'm on the fence on Weezing on one had it's moveset has been nerfed because sludge bomb is no longer physical on the otherside of that only 1 type can hit and hurt it badly Psychic, otherwise it's D is too high. and It can cause real havoc in any situation.

Uxie is even tougher than umbreon double 130's and has higher attack stats it's a lengedary 75 same with speed it is also a 75 I can not see a reason
for leaving it uu especially because of levitate

Milotic why is milotic UU It is not as popular as it used, to be It can take a hit especially when statused It can rest talk it learns recover it's special atk special defense combo is to high it is more durable than people might think and with that special atk special defense combo it could rip right through a uu team

Regice It's type may not be the best Weak to steel, rock, fighting, and fire 2 of which are commonly used attack types two of which are not. It may not be able to survive a close combat from a hitmonlee or a cross chop from a machamp but it can take at least two hits from highly powered super-effective special attacks. On the physical side it can take hits even with a 250-300 defense or 250-300 special attack. It can rest talk to recover it is a BoltBeamer and over all can take punishment from non super effective attacks With stats that high it again could rip right through a UU team

Registeel - being a pure steel has it's benefits however, it is a tweener. but it's defences ( both) are high It to me has more weaknesess than a wormadam however it is much more durable than wormadam. it has average hp at minimum 301 wormadam. It is hard to specialize it to either side but then again it is hard to hurt from either side with a non super effective attack. A CMSteel OR CurseSteel could be an ugly
prospect in uu. it has so many resistances but is weak to 3 common move types Fire Fighting and Ground

Mesprit, Mesprit, I have the same thought process as shaymin
It's stats are 80 105 105 105 105 80, and it is immune to ground attacks
Whats going to stop a choice scarf CM Choice specs MESPRIT

I'm on the fence on Sceptile has 5 weaknesses but is faster and more durable than jumpluff it can dish out pain on the special side but it's movepool for that stinks because it only has 4 good moves and one of them is inaccurate focus blast dragon pulse or energy ball and an hp fire/ghost/dark it can subseed fairly well but frankly the movepool which mostly physical does not suit sceptile well

As stated by Geoxphz
I would like to nominate Raikou for being moved up to BL from UU. I've been using Raikou on my Rain Dance UU team since I started playing on ShoddyBattle, and I've found that a STAB Thunderbolt combined with Calm Mind can absolutely decimate teams. In my battle experiences, I've been able to OHKO with Thunderbolt on neutral and even, in rare cases, types that resist Electric. This leads to Raikou sweeping through 3 or 4 Pokemon with one or two hit KOs a piece. I understand that Raikou's movepool is very limited, much less than its fellow dog Suicune, and I understand that there are better Electric types for the job that Raikou needs to do, but a Calm Mind Raikou outclasses far too many Pokemon in UU and thus, Raikou needs to be moved up to BL.

and add on to what geoxhpz said with a little tweaking it could learn hp ice

That is all i can think of

Results
Aquadude: All | Rejected, post is incoherent and poorly thought out (0 noms).
 
This will be added on to later.

Offensive Characteristic

A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.

Shaymin: This thing was BL for a reason. With 100 stats all around, not only does it have all the bases covered, but it can eliminate most of its potential counters with impunity. A sweep with this thing can't even by stopped by Thunder Wave or Sleep, and it can just use Rest or Synthesis to shake off any damage that it does receive. Natural Cure is extremely useful in avoiding stallers with Toxic, and works in conjunction with Rest for an instant recovery on switching out.

This thing can throw out Leech Seeds to set up for any stallers or to stall enemies itself.

Let's take a look at potential counters with a standard set:

Shaymin @ Life Orb
Nature: Modest
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- Air Slash/HP Fire
- Rest

vs. Chansey
Seed Flare vs 0/176 Calm: 26.83% - 31.83%

This looks rather tame as a 4HKO and may seem like a safe switch-in. However, let's look at the damage if that switch-in caused a -2 special defense drop:

252 Seed Flare vs 0/176 Calm Chansey: 53.82% - 63.34%

In this situation, it'll be a 3HKO, and sometimes a 2HKO with Stealth Rock down.

252 Seed Flare vs 252/252 Calm Chansey: 23.01% - 27.27%
252 Seed Flare vs -2 SpD 252/252 Calm Chansey: 46.16% - 54.55%

Even if Chansey maxes out its EVs (which it almost never does) it'll have a hard time staying in. It can't even retaliate with Thunder Wave, Shaymin can just rest it off or switch out with no loss.

Seismic Toss against a standard Shaymin is a 4HKO, and even then it can just rest it off with no consequence.

vs. Arcanine

With its impressive 110 Atk, Flash Fire to absorb HP Fires and 80 SpD, you think Arcanine would be safe from Shaymin. Again, looking at a switch-in:

252 Earth Power vs. 0/0 Arcanine: 87.85% - 103.43%
252 Seed Flare vs. 0/0 Arcanine: 43.61% - 51.40%

With a predicted Earth Power, Arcanine is 1HKO'd with Stealth Rock. With an attempted resistance switch-in, it is 2HKO'd sometimes without Stealth Rock and 2HKO'd with Stealth Rock.

252 Adamant Life Orb Extremespeed vs. 0/0 Shaymin: 32.55% - 38.42%
252 Adamant Choice Band Extremespeed vs. 0/0 Shaymin: 37.54% - 44.28%

Arcanine's countering Extremespeed (the only way it will attack without dying first) is weak and will 3HKO at best.

vs. Clefable

Clefable can afford, at the very least, can afford resistance to Leech Seed setup fodder, but is still quite vulnerable. Thunder Wave is useless, Encore will do nothing unless it's used on Rest, and even then, Shaymin can just switch out with Natural Cure.

252 Seed Flare vs. 252/252 Calm Clefable: 45.94% - 54.31%

Without Leftovers, Clefable has a 47% chance of being 2HKO'd.

252 Seed Flare vs. -2 SpD 252/252 Calm Clefable: 91.37% - 107.61%

There is means Shaymin will surely 2HKO if Seed Flare activates on the first hit.

vs. Staraptor

252 Seed Flare vs. 0/0 Staraptor: 64.95% - 76.53%

That's a guaranteed 2HKO.

vs. Typhlosion

252 Seed Flare vs. 0/0 Typhlosion: 44.78% - 52.86%

This will take away almost half of a switch-in's HP on Seed Flare. A retaliatory Eruption will kill Shaymin only 53% of the time, meaning Shaymin can take out this counter with relative ease. Most of the time, though, Shaymin's user will switch to a special wall.

252 Modest Choice Scarf Eruption at 55% HP vs. 0/0 Shaymin: 93.26% - 109.68%



Gallade: It should never have left BL. With a huge 125 base attack, it can take large chunks of almost everything. Its unique typing allows only two weaknesses, to flying and ghost, both of which can be handled quite easily with Shadow Sneak and Ice Punch. Access to Swords Dance can turn it into a monster sweeper. STAB Psycho Cut takes out most other fighters that try to fight you.

These calculations are assuming 252 Adamant that may or may not Swords Dance-

vs. Mismagius:

252 Life Orb Shadow Sneak vs. 108/0 Mismagius (Calm Mind set): 40.97% - 48.61%
+2 252 Life Orb Shadow Sneak vs. 108/0 Mismagius (Calm Mind set): 80.56% - 95.14%

252 Life Orb Shadow Sneak vs. +1 SpD 108/0 Mismagius (Calm Mind set): 27.08% - 31.94%
+2 252 Life Orb Shadow Sneak vs. +1 SpD 108/0 Mismagius (Calm Mind set): 54.17% - 63.89%

As you can see, Mismagius, a potential counter, falls rather easily to Shadow Sneak, even without a boost from Swords Dance.

vs. Clefable:

252 Life Orb Close Combat vs. 252/0 Def Clefable: 179.70% - 211.68%
252 Life Orb Psycho Cut vs. 252/0 Def Clefable: 52.03% - 61.68%
252 Life Orb Psycho Cut vs. 252/0 Def Clefable on a crit: 105.08% - 123.60%

252 Life Orb Close Combat vs. 252/252 Def Bold Clefable: 120.81% - 143.15%
252 Life Orb Psycho Cut vs. 252/252 Def Bold Clefable: 35.28% - 41.88%
252 Life Orb Psycho Cut vs. 252/252 Def Bold Clefable on a crit: 71.07% - 84.01%

vs. Spiritomb:

This thing is immune to Gallade's STAB, so it seems like an ideal counter, but it will still take a lot of damage.

252 Life Orb Night Slash vs. 252/252 Bold Spiritomb on a crit: 48.36% - 57.24%

+2 252 Life Orb Night Slash vs. 252/252 Bold Spiritomb: 47.70% - 56.25%
+2 252 Life Orb Night Slash vs. 252/252 Bold Spiritomb on a crit: 95.72% - 112.83%

+4 252 Life Orb Night Slash vs. 252/252 Bold Spiritomb: 71.38% - 84.21%

With one Swords Dance, Gallade will easily 2HKO even the most defensive Spiritomb, and 1HKO if it activates a crit. With two Swords Dances, it will 2HKO Spiritomb.



Staraptor: When somebody thinks of Bird/Normal physical attackers, they are often treated with contempt. Staraptor is the exception to this. Its 120 attack stat is no joke, and with 100 Speed it can outspeed a large part of the metagame. Having access to STAB Brave Bird helps, as well as Close Combat, U-turn and STAB Return. This thing can even take down Registeel, one of the premiere physical walls, with relative ease. Let's take a look at some common counters.

Assumes 252 Jolly:

vs. Registeel

252 Life Orb Close Combat vs. 252/56 Relaxed Registeel: 54.40% - 64.29%
252 Choice Band Close Combat vs. 252/56 Relaxed Registeel: 62.64% - 74.18%

252 Life Orb Close Combat vs. 252/252 Relaxed Registeel: 48.35% - 57.14%
252 Choice Band Close Combat vs. 252/252 Relaxed Registeel: 54.95% - 64.84%

In all situations, Registeel will usually be 2HKO'd, and it is powerless to retaliate.

vs. Uxie
252 Life Orb Brave Bird vs. 252/0 Uxie: 54.52% - 64.41%
252 Life Orb Brave Bird vs. 252/252 Bold Uxie: 40.68% - 48.31%

252 Choice Band Brave Bird vs. 252/0 Uxie: 62.15% - 73.73%
252 Choice Band Brave Bird 252/252 Bold Uxie: 46.89% - 55.37%

Uxie can barely wall a STAB Brave Bird from Staraptor, letting it set up maybe Stealth Rock if it's not switching into an attack.

vs. Spiritomb

252 Choice Band Brave Bird vs. 252/252 Bold Spiritomb: 62.17% - 73.36%
252 Life Orb Brave Bird vs. 252/252 Bold Spiritomb: 54.28% - 64.14%

Don't even think about stalling this out with Resttalk or WoW. It's futile. Even under burn, it's a 4HKO, meaning Spiritomb can't go under a stall cycle of Rest-Talk-Talk-Rest without dying before its next Rest.

252 Choice Band Brave Bird vs. 252/252 Bold Spiritomb with a burn: 30.92% - 36.84%
252 Life Orb Brave Bird vs. 252/252 Bold Spiritomb with a burn: 27.63% - 32.57%



Mismagius: Mismagius may not seem that powerful, but it's a terror with Sub + Calm Mind. It can even take down Clefable or Chansey without much of a problem, and it can come in on the two to set up as long as it avoids a Thunder Wave.

Once it starts setting up Calm Minds its SpD is practically unbreakable. Most attacks save STAB super effective hits will barely dent Mismagius's subs, and it gets the added bonus of being immune to Seismic Toss, which is the downfall of most CM sets.



Espeon: Espeon is significantly faster than most of the metagame. At a glance, it is outsped by only 9 other pokemon, Purugly, Raikou, Persian, Floatzel, Ambipom, Sceptile, Swellow, Crobat, and Electrode. Synchronize means that anything that tries to paralyze Espeon to outspeed will be brought down to its level.

Psychic will deal with Raikou, Electrode, Floatzel, Swellow and Crobat. HP Fighting will take down Purugly, Persian, and Ambipom. Shadow Ball eliminates Mismagius, Drifblim, Rotom, or any other ghosts who think they will be safe switching in to a psychic type.

Besides scarfers, it will outspeed and destroy and potential counters that might threaten it.

Its base Sp. Attack is higher than any of the other pokemon in the entire game, with the exception of its sister, Glaceon. Calm Mind makes it even worse; at least Glaceon can't boost itself with Calm Mind. Moltres, Exeggutor, Magmortar and Roserade all fit in to the base 125 tier, just below Espeon, and they cannot boost themselves either. Gardevoir (base 125) can CM but its speed is subpar compared to Espeon.



Defensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it is able to wall and stall out a significant portion of the metagame.


Milotic: This thing should've stayed in OU. It's way too defensive and I find that it can toxic stall you to death in a hail team. Even worse, it gets a recovery move that allows it to stall you infinitely. Resttalk is sometimes an even better option for this tank because of Marvel Scale- it can push its Def up to 423. This overpowered ability is also the reason Milotic can sleep absorb without a problem and throw back STAB Surf on its opponent.

With Light Screen, 252 Def EVs and Sleep Talk, I have found it really difficult to stop, because nothing works on it, even STAB Thunderbolts. It will just heal it off and toxic you back. Encore will only buy you a bit of time on Resttalker sets.



Registeel: Registeel is probably the best steel-type wall in UU right now. With the exception of STAB Fighting type attacks, it has no problem with stalling out any physical attackers on stall teams. It gets support moves like Curse, Thunder Wave, Stealth Rock, and Swagger.

Some calculations for counters:

252 Adamant Life Orb Honchkrow Superpower vs. +1 252/0 Careful Registeel: 46.70% - 55.49%
252 Adamant Life Orb Honchkrow Superpower vs. +2 252/0 Careful Registeel: 35.16% - 41.76%
252 Jolly Life Orb Arcanine Flare Blitz vs. +1 252/0 Careful Registeel: 43.41% - 51.65%
252 Jolly Life Orb Floatzel Waterfall vs. 252/252 Relaxed Registeel: 21.70% - 25.82%
252 Jolly Life Orb Floatzel Waterfall vs. +1 252/252 Relaxed Registeel: 14.29% - 17.31%
252 +1 Jolly Life Orb Floatzel Waterfall vs. 252/252 Relaxed Registeel: 32.42% - 38.74%
252 +1 Adamant Life Orb Feraligatr Waterfall vs. 252/252 Relaxed Registeel: 35.44% - 42.03%

All of these can be rested off with a curse set.



Walrein:
As long as Abomasnow remains in UU, this will be just as broken. Of course, I'm talking about Stallrein. With perma-hail and Leech Seed support from one of its best friends, Stallrein can last against literally anything. When it's not using Subs or Protects to stall the opponent to death, it can attack with STAB Blizzard with 100% accuracy. Roar lets it shuffle around potential counters while the incoming pokemon suffers more entry hazard damage as well as hail damage. If Abomasnow gets removed, it probably won't be as useful, but until then, it is too powerful.



Spiritomb:
No weaknesses and 3 immunities means huge defensive capabilities. Its HP is rather lackluster but it shines with above average defense and special defense. It gets Calm Mind and Will-o-Wisp to take care of any potential sweeping threats. Resttalk sets absorb sleep and stall. Pain Split is one of the most annoying recovery moves a wall can get. It gets STAB Dark Pulse to deal with other ghost threats, and to hit Normals for STAB. It even gets Nasty Plot to sweep! Its "Suicune" set with Resttalk, Calm Mind and Dark Pulse is just as worse as the original.



Chansey: What more can I say? It's just a weaker version of its OU counterpart. It's horribly broken and doesn't belong in this tier. It doesn't lose any of Blissey's standard moves, like Seismic Toss, Softboiled, Wish, Protect, Toxic, Thunder Wave or Aromatherapy; it also keeps Blissey's abilities. This wall is often paired with Registeel or Milotic on a hail stall team.

One of the most particularly annoying sets:

Chansey @ Leftovers
Nature: Bold
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
- Seismic Toss
- Wish
- Protect
- Thunder Wave/Aromatherapy

This set is overpowered to the max. It can sponge pretty much any special attack thrown at it. Other than fighting type moves, it will be able to shut down physical attackers with ease. Thunder Wave to cripple their sweep, then Wish/Protect to bring its health back up. Then it will follow up with Seismic Toss or Wish again to pass to a team member.

This is barely any weaker than its evolution, and should be removed.


Support Characteristic
A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.

Abomasnow/Snover: This focuses mostly on Abomasnow, but I included Snover because perma-hail is probably one of the worst features in UU ever. Stall teams and entry hazard teams are extremely common now and usually built entirely around Hail, and most people are lazily relying on them to get easy wins. At least Sandstorm teams don't get broken hazard setups like Froslass.

With a typical subseed set:

Abomasnow @ Leftovers
Nature: Timid
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Blizzard
- Focus Punch/Protect

This can be used to set up Stallrein, or just for another wall on its stall team. Leech Seed is terribly annoying against anything that you switch into it. It's bulky enough to wall super effective hits. Sub + Protect + Leftovers + Leech Seed recovery is almost as bad as it is on Stallrein.

Roserade:




Umbreon:



Crobat:


Results
XenoIncognito: Registeel | Borderline Rejecting Remaining | Rejected, doing calcs doesn't constitute reasoning and where there was reasoning it was bad. (0 nom).
 
Finally I got my change to say my opinion about current UU gaming: First all offensive guys those In my opinion should totally be at BL.

1. Staraptor

- Let's face the facts: Former UU bird those have greit attack+speed combination (mostly I look at Swellow and dodrio). These two are already deadly in UU but they both are quite easy to counter. Why? because their movepool sucks and every single steel/rock pokie can easily wall these two. But what seperates Staraptor from these two? He has Close Combat that boost his movepool totally. And He already have better attack+speed stat than fellow UU-birds and things get only worse when he got either scarf or band under his command. This guy is way too powerful to be at UU metagame. It's almost uncounterable and can easily destroy whole teams.

2. Gallade

- What actually is able to beat this guy in UU if played correctly? The only anver I have in my mind is priority attacks (fake out, Shadow sneak are the two I mean) but I guess there is no one who can safely come in and hit gallade with fake out. Persian, kangaskhan, hitmontop... all best fake outters are weak to this guy. And Shadow sneaker... usually they are ghosts and now it time to remember that gallade is also able to shadow sneak so bye bye guys like Banette and shedinja.

Gallade @ Life orb
~ Swords dance
~ Close Combat
~ Shadow Sneak
~ Psycho cut

that gives coverage everything because can't find anything that can take those hits giving back something is a change. Getting one swords dance under it is not even hard and then it is all about to sweep. Sucker Punch is the only thing to beat this guy and when it is SP vs SD gallade, it is all about mind games. If gallade expects Sucker Punch it can Swords dance itself even more threatening and thats it. then you just have to hope that your mind with Sucker Punch works better that opposing gallade players mind about attacking. Totally belongs to BL at least

3. Raikou:

- What the heck is this guy doing in UU? seriolsly... yeah I know his movepool is quite poor but he got all he needs to make at least competetive move pool: The BoltBeam combo. sub, calm mind, thunderbolt, HP ice is a set almost every Raikou uses and it has been quite hard to beat. he gets one sub, that means one calm mind at least and he has already quite huge speed+SpAttack combo and is also way too bulky to get down anyhow easily in UU. That power is too much in UU metagame and his Raikou is able to get itself through even in OU. He quite surfing somewhere between Ou and UU... dunno where should I call the place he belongs... hey now I know! let's make it BL.

I may add more info on remaining attacking threats later: those are just first three those are the most noticable and definitely should be moved back to BL.

Other Attacking threads those should be moved to BL are: (note: I maybe never give any more explanation why on the following guys, I just give my shout for those who should be moved to BL. but those three I mentioned first with good (in my opinioin good) explanations are what I really like to see moving back to BL because they are the most deadliest in UU and don't anyhow belong in UU)

so the other attacking threads who I like to mention moving back to BL:
- Hariyama
- Honchcrow
- Magmortar
- Moltres
- Sceptile
- Tangrowth
- Blaziken

Defensive Threats:

1. Slowbro

- Calm mind versions are way too powerful to handle and normal UU gaming. Boosting SpDef to totally new level and gives this guy also potential sweeping chance giving boost on it's special attack also. Already having powerful Def this guy is total pain in the ass + very good recovery ability on top of that. The only answer at UU gaming for this guy is toxic stalling, because there is nothing that can compare with this guy, even though it just get's only one CM under it. All good SpDef walls those can be swithed in safely are in danger as well because or large variety on slowbros movepool (hypno, Grumpig, mantine...) They all can stand a change against slowbro only by toxic stalling. Way too powerful at UU gaming... best counters are those guys who should move to BL along with slowbro (Raikou for example). Slowbro battles totally different category that UU allows In my opinion. (Same reasons goes mainly on Slowking, but because he is quite fragile from defensive side and is unable to boost it anyhow I see Slowbro as mainthread on UU metagame.)


2. Wallrein

- Okey here is the deal: Wallrein demands Abomasnows support to work at high level. That means, as long as Abomasnow sticks at UU (Which is fine for me because abomasnow is not very special at OU gaming because of bad typing and his stats are just "OK".) wallrein should be at BL. He is quite a wall that is almost imbossible to kill when we talk about basic "Stallrein". So Abomasnow and Wallrein should be separeted in UU metagame, and Abomasnow normally does nothing than performes permanent Hail on the field and Stallrein is the one that stalls to the very end. That is why I see Wallrein as a thread in UU metagame. also lack of other weather-pokies in UU does the Hail storm almost impossible to stop. (only one is Hippopotas.... yeah, a total thread -_-') So that is reason why Wallrein belongs to BL, or at least it should be separeted from Abomasnow.

3. Milotic

- Almost similiar reasons as I had with Slowbro, instead of having calm mind possibilities, the Marvel Scale boosted def makes this guy way too powerful wall that is also able to hit hard and heavy because of pretty high base SpAttack stat. can also stall easily and perform quick recover when needed. has always done well at OU gaming so I don't see a reason why to leave this guy in UU. It is just too powerful in UU metagame.

Other walls that should be at BL:
- Porygon 2
- Registeel
- Regirock
- Regice
- Spiritomb
- Slowking
- Umbreon
- Uxie

Starting/supporting threads :

1. Crobat

- Speed and moveset that Crobat learns makes it definitely maybe the best starter in the whole pokemon d/p metagame being able to: taunt, sleep, sweep (psysical and Specialside) and scout. Also able to make fake out leads suffer. Now that is something nobody allows to be seen at UU game. What else to say... just too powerful to be played at UU.

2. Ambibom

Base attack + speed = Awesome. Stab technician fake out is able to kill almost anyother common UU leads (Crobat being only common starter that counters pretty easily). Is quite bad against UU walls like Steelix or aggron though but that fake out + U-turn he can anyway pull out if needed. Not really too goo OU pokie, but definitely way too advanced being at UU so he sails somewhere in between... known as BL.

3. Shaymin

- Now this is something you got to be kiding. 100 Base stat in each stat, natural cure ability along with aromatheraphy making it wonderful status absorber and also being able to hit hard and heavy expesially being able to act as a "fake skymin" with Air Slash. Yeah I know, movepool might suck but sith stats like he does have, it is just matter of time this guy sweeping other walls in UU metagame. So instead of giving more reasons (stats speak for themselves already) I wish to heard some Johns why not to be raised up to BL at least?

Other startters/supporters those should be at BL:
- Venusaur
- Roserade
- Articuno
- Gardevoir

So there is my opinion about current UU-BL situation and as more or less professonal UU gamer I know what I'm talking about. I've played only UU so far and I have to say I liked the old UU way more better. While playing I admit I've used only old UU stuff being able to win almost every New UU team I've faced but is has been result of mind games and opponents mistakse because against pokies I mentioned in my listing... It's been total sacrificial game to take those guys out. So I've spoken. Now I just sit and wait for the results.

[Results]
All | Borderline Rejected. No real specificity. (0 noms).
 
I would like to nominate Clefable as suspiciously BL. By using the set below, Clefable can stall out a majority of the current UU metagame on it's own with little to no team support.

@Flame Orb/Toxic Orb
Cosmic Power
Seismic Toss/Facade
Softboiled
Trick
252 hp 252 def Careful nature

Cosmic Power boosts Clefables above average defenses into untouchable levels after only two uses. Even the most powerful sweepers have trouble dealing significant damage after it gets 1 Cosmic Power boost.

Magic Guard further bolsters Clefables defenses, nullifiying the damage that it would take from stealth rock, spikes, hail, toxic spikes, etc. Ergo, the only way to KO Clefable is to directly attack it, but this is thwarted by Cosmic Power. It also means that the Clefable stall engine cannot be stopped by Toxic, the weakness of most walls that rely on 50% recovery moves.

Flame Orb gives Clefable a status immunity so that it cannot be stopped by Sleep, Freeze or Paralysis, while the damage is nullified by Magic Guard. Clefable's one weakness is to fighting attacks, which can be neutralized with Trick, cutting the threats attack in half as well as removing whatever boosting item they may have been holding. Trick burning also allows Clefable to deal damage to Ghost types and Steel types. Once the threat has been burned, Clefable can than trick back it's Flame Orb for reuse to neutralize multiple physical threats. Clefable loves stealing Leftovers.

Softboiled allows Clefable to reliably heal itself for half of it's total hp with no strings attached.

Pokemon that counter Clefable are Ghost types that use Substitute. Hariyama can also counter Clefable if it is an offensive Guts Hariyama, as Hariyamas attack is boosted by burn status, learns Close Combat and Cross Chop, and is one of the bulkiest fighters in UU.


Clefable's Ability, Typing, good Defenses and 4 Attacks allow it to cover itself on all fronts. You can't beat it by attacking directly[Cosmic Power, Normal typing, Softboiled], you can't beat it with indirect damage[Magic Guard], and you can't even out stall the thing[Trick].

Results
TVboyCanti: Clefable | Rejected, poor reasoning (0 noms).
 
My nominations:


Regice: I'm going to get weird looks for this, but I've saved several logs in which my Charge Beam/Rest/Ice Beam/Toxic Regice has busted teams in a matter of turns. The special defence on this thing is freakish, and after a few Charge Beam boosts, it tears through the metagame like wet paper bags with STAB Ice Beam. Not to mention the status hazards this thing can inflict, while absorbing Thunder Waves with imputy (speed in half on Regice makes little difference). With Rest, it can recover to continue its rampart Charge Beam frenzy. Clearly BL material.

Magmortar: With Grass, Registeel, and Ice running around everywhere, the high special attack and moveset versatility of Magmortar can be a welcome addition to any team. Again, I've been able to sweep several times with this, due to the fact that, bar Quagsire, Thunderbolt can clip incoming Water types, and access to Will-o-Wisp, can leave battle with a nasty surprise for its assailant. Respectable speed means Magmortar can outspeed tons of stuff, while its special attack makes it able to 2/3 KO many of the standard threats in the game. Just avoid Ground attacks, and be wary of quick Stealth Rock.

Will continue to update. While it goes without saying Shaymin, Raikou, and Crobat deserve testing (won't be writing on these, they'll end up a the test even without my legitamate vote...)

Results:
Icebug: Regice | Reject . Magmortar | Reject
 
I'd also like to nominate Clefable as suspect. In addition to the points already made about it, I consider Clefable as sure a choice on a hail team as Stallrein. With this set in constant hail and a nice set of toxic spikes, I successfully and (almost) consistently outstalled five to six pokemon with relative ease.

Clefable@Leftovers
252HP, 252DEF, 6SDEF, Bold
Softboiled
Substitute
Cosmic Power
Water Pulse

A simple premise; defend yourself while the opponent takes whatever residual damage is flying around, then eventually add to it with confusion via Water Pulse.

If everything goes well, Clefable will end up with a significant defensive boost (3-4-5-6 Cosmic Powers should your opponent not forsee the problem you pose (or just not have something to force you out with)) behind a nicely sturdy sub (mostly to protect her from not-so-pleasant things like Close Combat crits) is nice in itself. On top of that, you have constant hail, confusion from Water Pulse and possibly Toxic from spikes or other pokemon whittling the opposition down.

Yes, phazers will ruin it (though passing it ingrain would prevent this and give your opponent an even harder time breaking through) and the water absorbers, Vaporeon et al, will quite literally sponge the pulses, but they will either eventually succumb to the hail and toxic that hail teams love so much, or force Clefable to retreat to safety until the obstacle has been dealt with. Tyrannitar, Hippowdon and other weather changers don't really impose on your stall either; should they have been tox'd, Clefable shouldn't have an issue doing well surviving and Pulsing even without the constant hail damage (plus, sandstorm could still prove useful against your opponent's other pokemon).

Results:
Payo: Clefable | Borderline Reject,
 
pokemon that meet the offensive characteristics are:

arcanine should become bl as it it a capable mixer that can kill 2 or 3 pokemon on most teams, his downfall is his defense but other than that he has a decent movepool and can do fairly well.

raikou is capable of setting up calm minds and becoming even bulkier on the special side, his speed is pretty good and he also weilds decent coverage

staraptor is a very capable sweeper able of also learning close combat for extra coverage, not many pokemon can safely switch in and intimidate only makes him stronger

blaziken is very gooda t sweeping, although he is outclassed by his ou counterpart "infernape" i think he is a good nomination and deseves a place in the bl tier

espeon is a very fast pokemon with outstanding special attack, not only can she do wel at sweeping but like all other eeveelutions can baton pass stat changes to teammates so i feel espeon fits the support criteria as well.

gallade used to be ou, he has amazing attack and despite his pretty poor speed he does pretty well as a sweeper, although he doesn't contend with the likes of lucario or scizor he is very capable of sweeping through teams.

gardevoir, the female counterpart of gallade, she also has good offensive stats but pretty poor speed, despite this, she has the ability trace which helps her and can be very fun to play with, hindering heatran almost useless by tracing flash fire- leaving him without a STAB move, she can also trace blisseys natural cure and heal herself on the way out, there are so many things that you can do and with her stats she will fit right in in the bl tier

glaceon is a fairly good sweeper usable in the ou tier as well, she has proved her point by sweeping through teams in higher tiers, she has amazing special attack and has proved her point as a capable sweeper

that is all for now

Results:
metamega: All | Rejected, Little to no reasoning (0 noms)
 
I know these are redundant, but I may as well put in my two cents:
Support characteristic - Abomasnow
His hail easily pushes Walrein into the defense characteristic, giving him the ability to outstall just about any pokemon who fails to do 75% to him, while still being able to hurt the other team with good STAB, toxic, or roar + entry hazards. Hail makes laying spikes super easy by allowing Froslass an average of one free turn, easily allowing two sets of spikes if it comes in on a slower pokemon. With a little thought all three sets go down easily. 100% accurate STAB blizzards flying around might not be broken on their own, but they allow teams to keep great power while still stalling like crazy. Finally, with his bulk, typing, and leech seed, he can easily come in again and again. Water resistance is significant, as it lets him come in on rain sweepers.

Offensive characteristic: Gallade
There is just too little that can switch in to sponge his attacks. Slowbro is the only thing I can think of that can come in on any move of any set and force out Gallade. While the standard set is wallable by a lot of pokemon, Gallade has the movepool to hit the psychics, ghosts, flyers, and particularly poisons by using his other moves. This means that scouting Gallade is extremely dangerous, and you are likely to lose a pokemon at least if you "mispredict" (doesn't really apply if you have no way of knowing the set at first).

Shaymin
If it weren't for seed flare, Shaymin would probably be ok. Earth power and HP ice give Shaymin the coverage to hit most things that resist Seed Flare super effectively. This means that if they get that 40% special defense drop, they are easily dispatched by another move. Chansey stands a good chance of stalling you out of Seed Flare PP especially with wish/protect. Of course the fact that Chansey has only a good chance of beating a non-boosting special attacker is some cause for alarm. Registeel doesn't really wall it, as its inability to heal or do much damage back means it loses, just it takes more time. With decent bulk (even with no EV's) and natural Rest, it is almost impossible to cripple Shaymin except with another sweeper, who is of course at risk of taking a powerful hit.

Results:
Scoopapa: Abomasnow | Borderline Rejected, . Gallade | Borderline Rejected . Shaymin | Rejected . (0 Noms)
 
Crobat-- The best uu lead withouth question, too hard to take down. Really doesnt belong in uu.

Abasnow: Hail is so broken in uu it isnt funny. It makes froslass and walrein godly, and it is a pretty hard pokemon to take down itself. It kinda has the heatran effect of, its typing sucks on paper but in practice many movesets cant do much to it. Let hail be faced with the same problem sand has in uu. You have to use a crappy lead to get amazing teammates.

personally, i am of the opinion that this tier should remain mostly unchanged, and we should add 1-2 tiers under this.

Results:
GengarX777: Crobat | Rejected, no reasoning . Abomasnow | Rejected, How does it make them godly? (0 Noms)
 
Spiritomb is a big pain in the ass because nothing can kill it without insane power behind it.... and anything with enough power to destroy this is soon getting banned. The Crocune set in particular is dangerous, especially since most the SDers that resisted the set are OU.

Results:
Articanus: Spirtomb | no real reasoning given at all (0 noms)
 
Walrien, or possibly Snover/Abomasnow (Solely for hail):I personally believe that the problem that most people, including myself, with hail isn't the 6% damage per turn, or Abomasnow itself, or really anything else other than Walrien. The defensive characteristic states that a pokemon is BL if it can easily wall a large portion of the UU metagame, of which Walrien very very easily does. If it gets a sub up, it can just protect and resub for something like 40 turns, which with 6 percent damage done to other pokemon every turn, really adds up. I've seen hail teams, including my own shitty one, come back and kill entire teams with just Walrien. So I guess what I'm trying to say is either ban the hail starters, or ban Walrien, preferebly Walrien because no one would ever use it without hail anyway.

Shaymin: very good stats, fairly good defensive typing (Resisting ground, grass, electric, and water, which are all common moves in UU), and great support and attack movepools spell major trouble for any team, and in my opinion a little to much. This thing can do everything and is too good at it for uu. As an attacker, it gets seed flare, which with it's chance of sp. def drop can ruin any special wall, earth power for things that resist, and a variety of other options. As a support poke, it can provide annoyance with leech seed and status clearance with aromatherapy very easily. To top it all off, it can shed all status, including rest, in one turn making it a wall for any status and allowing it to heal all of its health with one rest, switch out and come back in to keep on attack/supporting/etc. All in all this poke does everything too easily and can be used with essentially no team support.

Chansey: My problem with Chansey isn't as much with its never ending ability to wall special attacks as it is the fact that it's literally a UU blissey and nothing else. I really don't think the point of UU is to be mini OU, and honestly Chansey is exactly that. So while I don't have any real competitive reasoning behind my want for the banning of Chansey, I feel it's kind of stupid for it to be allowed in UU.

Gallade: There really isn't that much to say about Gallade, other than that I'm really hard pressed to think of anything that can switch in to Gallade. The best I can think of is Slowbro which really doesn't like eating Choice band Thunderpunches or similar things.

Results
Danke: Walrien, or possibly Snover/Abomasnow | Rejected, you need to choose your suspects . Shaymin | Rejected, How does this effect the metagame? How does it do what it does better than anything else? . Chansey | Rejected, "I don't have any real competitive reasoning" . Gallade | Rejected, others managed essays. You should be able to manage more than 2 sentences (0 Noms)
 
I'm going to nominated Abomasnow and Walrein for BL. But I'm not going to state why since it's going to be the same reason as everyone else.

But I think snover should stay UU. Really, putting snover in BL sounds like we're running away from it instead of trying to think of way to counter it. But of course people are going to use sealeo as mini walrein in UU, but I do not think it will break UU. Snover is pretty much the only thing keep hail teams alive in UU, and I think the UU is much better with hail in it.

Results
Scuba Steve: Abomasnow/Walrein | Rejected, No reasoning (0 Noms)
 
Honchkrow - Offense - Known to break walls in OU, and even more effective here. Powerful Drill Pecks, Heat Wave to melt steels, Superpower for overkill, and STAB Sucker Punch for unprepared speedsters. Switch into sleep moves with Insomnia, and destroy them as they flee with Pursuit. Night Slash + Super Luck iif you're into that.
It would be nice to have something like this left behind to clean up the mess of other stuff people probably forgot to mention, but it's not like people don't know it exists, and I'd hate to see Krow flying everywhere all of a sudden.

Jumpluff - Support -SubSeed, Defensive Encore, Sleep Powder, U-turn. Stun Spore. As soon as we scare off all the other common counters to it, people will start using it again, and all the old hate will come back.

Articuno
- Defense - A capable staller, hail can only help. If Stallrein could have Pressure, it would end up more like this. It's not really weak to fighting, and it's the only ice type to feature an instant recovery move. Support options available as well.

nth-ing nods for:
Clefable Magic Guard/Encore/Softboiled/Everything
Froslass Always was a pain, now with Snow Cloak
Shaymin Base 100 in everything, and the right move(s) to use it
Staraptor more dangerous without a choice item IMO
Spiritomb Pressure. SleepMinding Dark Pulse. Wisp, Pain Split.
Abomasnow/Snover not hating Walrein, hating his game

Special Mention:
Tauros The new Staraptor. I'm totally calling it.

Results
Random???: All | Rejected, Poor to no reasoning at all (0 noms)
 
I'm only nominating one pokemon, and there are a lot of nominations here that are definitely overreaching (Jumpluff? Really?).

That Pokemon is Staraptor. Only defensive steels can switch into its Brave Bird, and they risk switching into a deadly Close Combat. STAB Return is also massively powerful, and it has just enough room for U-turn, perfect for scouting for its counters, or Roost on non-choice sets, giving it quite a bit of staying power. Intimidate is a great ability which helps it get in quite easily, and its two immunities help with that, too. It's the only thing that, to me, seems like it might be a bit too much for the game.

Results
petrie911: Staraptor | Borderline Accepting, just barely describes why it is good . (1 Nom)

Double Checking -

Staraptor - You captured the heart of the OC but you just didn't say it. I think this is the most concise argument one can give for staraptor although of course "it could use more evidence" to help solidfy the point - although you forgot to bring the point home. Borderline.
 

cim

happiness is such hard work
is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
that's right bitches Chris is doing his nom

Gallade


I personally only see something as uber under the offensive definition if it falls under that category with one set (or has radically different sets that win if the opponent switches in the "wrong" check). There is no evidence that the Choice sets for Gallade nor the bulky sets are not broken, leaving the SD Life Orb set. There are three things that make a Pokemon set able to sweep in common battle conditions. Note that these are not "YES" or "NO" answers that if all 3 are YES make something broken, these are merely a reference point that if something excels greatly at one or more of is worthy of consideration.
  • It must be able to enter play, either by forcing something out after a sacrifice or switching in and taking little damage. The latter is preferred.
  • It must be able to severely hurt switch-ins that are faster than it, or have few enough faster switch-ins that revenge kills and checking isn't very feasible.
  • It must be able to severely hurt slower switch-ins after a boost to the point where they are either near a KO or knocked out; 2HKOs are okay on things that cannot severely hurt or cripple it.
To a certain degree, Gallade can do all of these things. If it could do these all "reasonably well" then it would not be broken, but what makes Gallade a Suspect is how it excels at the third criterion while still fufilling the first and second criterion with very little support if any.

For the sake of this argument, the Gallade set in question is Swords Dance / Close Combat / Ice Punch / Shadow Sneak @ Life Orb.

Gallade with 4 HP EVs has the odd quality of being specially bulky; despite its lack of resistances it can come in on more defensively oriented Special attackers with impunity. 0 SpA Clefable Thunderbolt does 22% max. Fire Blast manages 28%. Claydol's Earth Power also maxes out at 28%. 0 SpA Slowbro Surf manages 38%, meaning Gallade can force it out after a sacrifice. Uxie's Psychic manages just 30% max. Gallade fits the first criterion well enough to function (this is mainly there for Pokémon like Rampardos and PZ who may be threatening but can't come in on an attack and live). It's certainly not its strong, broken point (the third one is), but it's not bad at coming into play.


Now let's list all of Gallade's "checks", faster Pokémon that can come in on Swords Dance, live through Shadow Sneak, and (optionally) take an unboosted Close Combat while threatening Gallade with major damage. I personally ran calculations for _every_ faster Pokémon and am listing all of the ones that can come in, with a note if they can also take a CC. I'd list reasons for all of the ones I threw out but this post is going to be long enough as it is and most of them are fairly obivous. I excluded stuff like Uxie that dies before killing Gallade.
  • Crobat (can come in on CC too)
  • Swellow (can't come in on CC)
  • Ambipom (can't on CC)
  • Persian (can't on CC)
  • Purugly (okay seriously who's going to use Purugly)
  • Jumpluff (can on CC, wins with Aerial Ace / status)
  • Tauros (can't on CC)
  • Dodrio (doesn't like CC)
  • Entei (just can on CC, burn / physical attack)
  • Fearow (okay fuck im counting fearow, don't tell me im not being thorough)
  • Miltank (can't on CC but it needs Speed EVs to beat it)
  • Shaymin (doesn't like CC, needs an Air Slash flinch to secure the KO)
  • Slaking (doesn't like CC)
  • Staraptor (doesn't like CC)
  • Raticate (scraping the bottom of the Normal barrel here, no on CC)
  • Arcanine (can on CC with intimidate, burn)
  • Leafeon (can on CC)
  • Sharpedo (it does resist shadow sneak! also can't come in on CC)
  • Pidgeot (okay maybe _now_ this is the bottom of the normal barrel, can't on CC)
  • Moltres (can on CC, WoW / Air Slash)
  • Zangoose (can't on CC)
  • Nidoking (can on CC)
  • Pinsir (can on CC)
That's an exhaustive list. If you narrow that down to remotely viable Pokémon outside of checking Gallade, you get 6 CC-safe checks (Crobat, Jumpluff, Entei, Arcanine, Moltres, and Pinsir) and 6 unsafe checks (Ambipom, Miltank, Slaking, Staraptor, Nidoking, Pinsir). I've glossed over Choice Scarf here, though, as that would take too long. The point is to show that Gallade is as good as any other top tier Pokémon at "not being checked too easily"; if it only excelled at the third criterion but was beaten by a plethora of faster Pokémon then it wouldn't be broken.

The slower counters section will be pretty short. Here's what can survive a move from the SD set and nearly OHKO back.
  • Spiritomb (Shadow Sneak variants)
I'm not joking. That's pretty much everything that I could find. I've been spending the entirety of the UU test looking for a Pokémon that can do it other than Shadow Sneak Spiritomb and there's simply nothing else. This is where Gallade's strength lies; with one set (not even any slashes!) it has about 7 safe checks and counters, most of which only cripple or need to lose a major amount of health to win.

And that, in a nutshell, is why Gallade should be considered a Suspect. It is simple enough to bring in and absolutely destroys most of the game with the SD set. A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort, and clearly Gallade can do this.

Staraptor

I don't have time to make a great argument, unfortunately, but I'll summarize my main point here. CB Staraptor can 2HKO everything in UU "basically" (that's not alone broken), switches in with impunity very easily, and is generally a huge dick. The main problem is that it does major damage even if you guess wrong; Rotom takes a ton from Brave Bird and Luxray doesn't exactly enjoy it either. You can often just get away with coming in really easily with intimidate and useful resistances, spamming brave bird, and switching out. Considering that SR is slightly less prevalent in UU now that makes it all the much easier for him to sweep "in common battle conditions".

Sorry that the reasoning is shit I just wanted something on here since I couldn't do an exhaustive review like gallade.

Results
Chris is me: Gallade | Accepted . Staraptor | Accepted . (2 Noms)

Double Checking:

Gallade - Accepted.
Staraptor - Rejected
 
Abomasnow.

This Pokemon brings a drastic change to the metagame. It allows the use of hail, and abuse of Pokemon like Froslass and Walrein. That is in no reason why it should be back into BL.

The reason it should be is it's ability to counter many threats, unlike in OU. Bulky waters make easy set up bait (as long as Milotic doesn't put you to sleep or Slowbro hits you with Flamethrower), seeing as you are neutral to Ice and resist water. On top of that, you can counter SpecsRaikou by coming in on a resisted Thunderbolt or HP Ice. It is too game changing a Pokemon to leave in such a tier, however if many of the Pokemon it can counter (Slowbro, Raikou) leave UU then perhaps it isn't so powerful on its own.

Regirock.

With the addition to sandstorm in the UU tier, Regirock has become an astounding abuser of the move Curse. After a few curses, even fewer things can stop a sweep by this Pokemon. It also walls a majority of the physical metagame, apart from the most powerful Fighting types like Gallade.

Gallade.

This Pokemon's power is astounding. Coupled with a 120 Base Power STAB move, only Ghosts can safely switch in, and that's if they avoid coming in on a Night Slash. Many of the metagame's top walls are weak to fighting, such as Regirock, Registeel, and Steelix. However, even the games Psychic walls, such as Hypno are dealt with easily enough thanks to Night Slash.

Results
Metanite: Abomasnow | Rejected, fails to mention why it is broken . Regirock | Rejected, barely said anything . Gallade | Rejected Needs more reasoning . (0 Noms)
 
Abomasnow: Easily fufills the support characteristic by enabling Froslass, Glaceon, and even itself to fire off 100% accurate 180 power Blizzards, which smashes through a lot of the metagame if unchecked. Froslass and Glaceon also get support from the Hail in the form of Snow Cloak, and Walrein in the form of Hail Body.

Shaymin: Has the ability to hit almost everything SE with Earth Power, HP Ice, and Seed Flare (okay, that IS everything), and can stay alive for a long time thanks to 100/100/100 defenses and Synthesis/Leech Seed. Rest is also viable thanks to Natural Cure. Can easily sweep entire teams by itself, fufilling the first characteristic.

Entei: Just because no one uses Raikou's cousin doesn't mean it's not BL. In sun, Entei can utilize Fire Blast, Solarbeam, and HP Ice to rip through everything with no resistance. And of course, it can also Calm Mind up to the point where it can even beat Chansey.

Results
MapleSandwich: Abomasnow | Rejecting, You state your reasons as to why hail is broken, But not the effects on the metagame . Shaymin | Borderline Rejecting, you start off with good explanations, but fail to go into depth as to why it is broken . Entei | Rejecting, any fire pokemon can run that type of set, and other pokemon can calm mind up on chansey, no explanation of why Entei is different . (0 Noms)
 
I’m only going to be nominating one Pokemon for Suspect status, as it is the only one that I feel particularly strongly about at this moment in time. I have put a lot of thought into this one though, so here goes:

Support Characteristic
A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.
For the purposes of this argument I am going to assume that the word ‘sweep’ is interchangeable with ‘stall’ with regards to the above definition, as this is very important for my case.

Abomasnow:

Now I’m aware that many people have already mentioned this one and given their own unique reasoning, so I’m going to attempt to do the same. That is to provide my own interpretation of the potential problem that I see Abomasnow posing for the UU metagame, and hopefully convince you as to why it requires Suspect testing.

I must stress first of all that I currently do NOT believe that Abomasnow is broken. This is for the most part due to the fact that I am a strong proponent of the ‘innocent until proven guilty’ mindset, and I believe that this particular case will require more than simply drawing on my own personal experiences in order to accurately pinpoint the severity of the problem. This is important as there is fine line between a strategy that is simply viable and effective and a strategy that is broken. Placing Abomasnow as a suspect would be an ideal method of going about this as it would encourage players to focus on the effect that it has on the metagame not just from a personal perspective but hopefully, with the appropriate level of cooperation and interaction within the community, from the perspective of others as well.

Why do I stress this need for multiple perspectives so strongly? Well there is only one main reason really, and this is that, in my honest opinion, each player has their own characteristic tendencies with regards to how they approach competitive battling. I believe that this is mostly a sub-conscious effect, and can result in a biased interpretation that the individual is not necessarily aware of, and will most likely not be able to evaluate objectively.

I will use myself as an example of what I’m getting at. I’ve noticed that with the teams I normally construct I often take a rather conservative approach to battling, i.e. not taking too many unnecessary risks early-game, exploiting setup turns to try and get the momentum back on my side, then slowly scouting the team for the right opportunity to launch my all-out sweep. With this mindset I tend to have the most success with Pokemon like Encore Clefable and SubRoost Moltres, as they get many chances to come in against typical teams and take full advantage of non-attacking moves. I mention these two in particular because it so happens that, when it comes to the style of team in question, Hail stall, these two in particular have a field day in my experience.

Now compare this to a player who tends to be more comfortable utilizing more reckless, offensive teams. Said player may find, for example, that once Walrein gets a turn to set up, his/her team no longer gets a look in and is stalled to death. He/She may feel that dealing with Hail teams would require ’unreasonable measures’ such as the use of more conservative strategies or Pokes like Clefable and Moltres as mentioned above, whereas for players like me dealing with Hail teams would come naturally. Is it possible therefore that my personal experiences are not indicative of the true overall potential of Hail teams in the metagame?

Now I’ll briefly discuss the various support aspects that Abomasnow and its auto-Hail brings to the fore that I believe are potentially the most problematic:

1) First of all I want to talk out the residual damage factor. As you know, Hail damage is negated by only Ice types, Golduck and Clefable. That is a very small pool of Pokemon, far less than the number of Sandstorm-immune Pokemon in OU, which allows Hail teams to put a great deal of pressure on the typical non-Hail team in terms of the average residual damage rate. This problem is further amplified by the fact that of those few Hail-immune options available, far fewer still are viable together on the same team. Multiple Ice types are seldom seen on teams that are not specifically built to utilize Hail, and for good reason; it is a dreadful defensive type that leaves you saddled with multiple common weaknesses to very common offensive types. So it is clear that there is a huge overall damage rate involved already when considering only the end-of-turn Hail effect. This effect is nowhere near as pronounced in OU for several reasons. The most obvious one is the omnipresence of Tyranitar, and to a lesser extent Hippowdon. This makes Sandstorm the dominant weather effect, whereas in UU the only option for this is Hippopotas, who let’s just say is a little lacking in competitive potential in its own right. There is also the presence of many viable anti-Ice Pokemon in OU, particularly Steels such as Scizor and Metagross. In UU such parallels do not really exist except in a few rare and tentative cases. Aside from Clefable, the best candidates are often strong Fire types, but a combination of Stealth Rock and constant Hail damage means that they usually have a very short lifespan and do not require much effort to be worn down.

2) The second factor to consider is Stallrein. The number one potential problem with Walrein in Hail is that, once it's able to set up a Sub, you cannot even so much as wear it down through direct attacking. In fact, unless you are using specific moves to disrupt its stall pattern (Encore, Taunt, Roar etc), any non-attacking move you use will just allow it to heal further behind its Sub. This also gives Walrein the chance to use one of its supplementary moves, usually Surf/Blizzard for attacking and Roar/Toxic for support. Combined with the fact that residual Hail is very difficult to defend against, Walrein is capable of wearing down the majority of Pokemon in UU with little effort, whether it be Toxic stalling or shuffling with entry hazards. Now there certainly are ways of dealing with this, such as disrupting its flow using the above mentioned moves and others, or simply exploiting its lack of serious offense to play around it and stall using team maintenance (Wish support, Cleric support, Rapid Spin etc). I have used both methods with reasonable success against Hail teams, but it does beg the question: to what degree are such measures generally accessible? This is an important factor that must be analyzed carefully. Remember that this is not a case of ’play around with prediction’ or ’100% counters aren’t required’. When faced with Walrein in the Hail, you need a clear plan of action, and it must be executed as such.

3) Lastly there are the issues of Snow Cloak and perfect accuracy Blizzards, which I‘ll discuss together. The two most common Snow Cloakers on Hail teams, Glaceon and Froslass, are very much viable and effective Pokemon in their own right, and their effectiveness is even more pronounced when they have access to 100% accurate Blizzards. Even with this boost however, and backed up by residual hail damage, they can still be countered to some extent, mainly by bulky Water and Fire types. However, this is where Snow Cloak comes in to ruin things. Much like the situation with Garchomp in OU, you could end up doing absolutely everything right, setting up a situation where you’re just about able to brave any onslaught the Snow Cloak Pokemon can muster and you’re prepared to KO back. Then suddenly . . . you miss, costing you the match through no fault of your own. This problem is exemplified by the fact that said Pokemon, particularly Froslass, can consistently set up Subs to attempt to force hax on to their side. Then there’s the fact that Specs Glaceon’s Blizzard is so absurdly powerful that almost nothing can avoid being at least 3HKO’d (barring some Water/Ice types and maybe Registeel), meaning that you may only get one chance to counter it in certain circumstances, if that (it’s not like Glaceon is frail either).

All of these factors can be directly attributed to Abomasnow and its auto-Hail ability. However, I don’t feel that any one of these factors is broken by itself. It is the combination of these factors that makes Hail potentially too much for UU IMO. That is, making sure that your team is well equipped to deal with all aspects of a Hail team may well be making team-building too restrictive. This is what needs to be looked at in particular when comparing with a metagame lacking Abomasnow.

On a final note, I’d like to state that I am currently not in favour of placing Snover as a Suspect, for the time being. My reasoning for this is simple: we have yet to thoroughly test the effectiveness of Hail teams led by Snover instead of Abomasnow. It is very much possible (and quite likely from my experience) that a significant fraction of a Hail team’s overall power is contributed by Abomasnow itself. It is a rather decent Pokemon after all, and only testing will show us to what degree the typical Hail team’s effectiveness is weakened with the much weaker Snover in its place. By placing them both as Suspects at the same time we lose the opportunity to test this possibility right now, and doing so will essentially be making an untested assumption based on theorymon. I feel that Snover needs a little time in the spotlight by itself first, and we can always place it as a Suspect later on if need be.

So have I made a valid argument for placing Abomasnow as a Suspect, or am I overanalyzing the problem in an attempt to be more open-minded? It’s up to you guys to judge.

Results
Lemmiwinks MkII : Abomasnow | Accepted . (1 Nom)

Double Checking:

Abomasnow - Accepted
 
Offensive Characteristic

Shaymin

Yes its main move Seed Flare has low PP and accuracy, but combined with Earth power and HP Ice, very little can switch in. This probably wouldn't make it suspect on its own; Heracross in Advance and Salamence in the current metagame are just a couple of examples that have very few switch ins. They however have disadvantages to using these moves whether it be being locked into a CB hit or the special attack drop.

Shaymin doesn't have these problems with LO it can switch moves with ease, even if you predict right due to its base 100 speed and Seed Flare Def drop it will kill the majority of the switch ins the next turn.

This basically means if you sit below 100 base speed, you have to be able to take at least two hits and then be able to out damage Shaymin. This is very difficult due to its 100/100/100 defences and virtual immunity to status, from my experience this leaves.

Regice
Registeel
Chansey(Without Seed Flare drop)

My second option when i have faced Shaymin on the ladder, has been to use something that is safe to come in on a predicted resisted hit , outspeed Shaymin and then can OHKO. From my experience these have been my best options.

Scarfraptor(Can only switch into Earth power)
Scarfed Fire Types(82.15%-96.97% from Earthpower,OHKO with SR down)
Crobat(59.35%-70.03% from HP Ice)

You get the idea outside of a few scarf pokemon and crobat basically nothing that is faster hits hard enough to KO shaymin before it kills them.

Results
latinoheat: Shaymin | Accepted . (1 Nom)

Double Checking:

Shaymin - Borderline. it only covers a very limited perspective, I feel.
 

Seven Deadly Sins

~hallelujah~
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I only have a couple really major ones that I have to talk about.

Raikou

My biggest problem with Raikou is that it is pretty much impossible to wall this thing given the fact that it has Calm Mind, ridiculous power, and damn good coverage with Thunderbolt and HP Ice. Substitute opens it up to setting up for free on ALL special attackers, while running a straight Life Orb set means it has Shadow Ball or Extrasensory for additional coverage. Now, lots of things in nUU are impossible to wall, but Raikou's 115 Base Speed makes that doubly important, as it's also outsped by very few things. Electrode, Crobat, Swellow, Sceptile. Ambipom, Floatzel, and Persian also tie it. However, with its 90/75/100 defenses and the fact that Electric is a damn cool offensive type, none of the things faster tend to OHKO. So the end result is that the things that are slower can't wall it, and the things that are faster can't OHKO it or survive a hit. It's also not weak to any priority, so even CB Priority users can't get the jump on it. This leaves it open to sweep the majority of the current UU metagame with little or no effort, making it unquestionably BL in my book.

Staraptor

I've built plenty of teams for New UU, and I've never not found a reason to run Staraptor. Brave Bird literally 2HKOs every single thing that doesn't resist it, with Close Combat handling Rocks and Steels and Return providing recoil-free reliable STAB. The only things that can switch in on it that are safe are heavily defensive Luxray and Rotom, which still runs the risk of being 2KOed by CB Brave Bird. Like I said, lots of things are impossible to wall, but generally Staraptor is free to switch in repeatedly and rip gigantic holes in stuff. Bulky variants with Roost and Life Orb are even worse, as they can survive long enough with Roost to absolutely destroy any team that doesn't have one of the few ridiculously specialized Staraptor counters. Generally, if Staraptor comes in on something it threatens, something is going to die or at the very least get very heavily dented. This is all capped by Staraptor's impressive 100 Base Speed, which, while not exactly stunning, goes well with its incredible attack and three-move coverage to thrash most of the UU metagame.

Gallade

There are two sets that I've used that have been absolutely insane in the current UU metagame. The first is, of course, the CB set, which not only absolutely annihilates something every time it comes in, but it also can come in on most special attackers due to its impressive 65 / 115 Special Defenses. However, it's the SD / CC / SE / SS set that really makes it for me, as it pretty much annihilates the metagame after one SD, while bulky enough on the Special side to live most unboosted neutral special attacks. Once again, it's the combination of "impossible to wall" and "incredibly hard to outspeed and kill" that really makes it for me. Outside of Staraptor and Crobat, very little can come in and kill it, and I'm voting both of them BL as well, as everyone else appears to be doing, so that tosses them out for me.

Froslass

There's a reason this thing was on the way up at the end of old UU. Essentially, Froslass is going to get a layer of Spikes up against anything not named Crobat, probably multiple, and has a very good chance of killing something with Destiny Bond or Paralyzing something afterwards. It's the unquestionably best lead in the metagame hands down, given its speed, access to Taunt, Destiny Bond, Thunder Wave, Spikes, excellent Ice STAB, and arguably the most important part, immunity to Fake Out. It's impossible outside of Base 110+ Taunt to stop these spikes. It's a suicide lead that takes stuff down with it, and it unquestionably centralizes the lead to "Froslass" and "things that beat Froslass".

Results
SevenDeadlySins: Raikou | Accepted . Staraptor | Accepted . Gallade | Accepted . | Froslass | Accepted . (4 Noms)

Double Checking:

Raikou - accepted.
Staraptor - rejected. Questionable reasoning.
Gallade - borderline - they're just statements.
Froslass - rejected. Questionable reasoning and theorymetagaming
 
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