New UU List (July 2009)

[capefeather]

So what exactly qualifies a Pokémon as OU (as opposed to UU) and/or UU (as opposed to NU)? I've heard "1 in 20 teams" being thrown around a lot, but clearly that's not being used anymore. Porygon2 had a higher proportion of usages in June than Donphan did in March but it's still UU. I've asked in the chat to no avail, and one person even called me an idiot for no apparent reason. So I'd really like to know.

 

[Red Rain]

Donphan is finally UU, I don't know it wasn't there before, but I feel it will make a great impact on UU, as will Duggy. And I love Tangrowth, so I'm really glad that's gone up. Kind of suprised Primeape went to NU, seeing as I saw that a bit in RMTs and on Shoddy.

Capefeather has made a good point too, Porygon2 for OU. :)

 

[TDS]

What last move do you think Donphan will use on the CB set now that it's in UU? I think Assurance will be used since people will bring in rotom and mismagius with no problem. Rapid spinwill probably be a close second

 

[Steven718]

I was under the impression pokemon are uu based on not being unbalancing to that metagame which I don't recall umbreon being considered to be... not because they are seeing use in another bracket. Blissey saw use in ubers for a long time and never became banned from OU for it.. It doesn't matter much to me but I like to see consistency.

 

[X-Act]

So what exactly qualifies a Pokémon as OU (as opposed to UU) and/or UU (as opposed to NU)? I've heard "1 in 20 teams" being thrown around a lot, but clearly that's not being used anymore. Porygon2 had a higher proportion of usages in June than Donphan did in March but it's still UU. I've asked in the chat to no avail, and one person even called me an idiot for no apparent reason. So I'd really like to know.

The process is as follows:

1) Take the stats of the previous three months, and find their percentage usage. Thus, each Pokemon would have 3 percentage usages p_1, p_2 and p_3, where p_1 is the usage of the most recent month and p_3 is the usage of the least recent month.
2) For each Pokemon, find p = (20*p_1 + 3*p_2 + p_3) / 24.
3) Sum up all these p's and call the answer S. Divide S by 6, and multiply by the number (1 - 0.5^0.05). Call the final number T. (T should always result in a number close to 0.005677.)
4) Those Pokemon having p being at least T are OU.

For the OU list, the stats for the Standard ladder are used, while for the UU list, the stats for the Underused ladder are used.

 

[MagicMaster87]

I was under the impression pokemon are uu based on not being unbalancing to that metagame which I don't recall umbreon being considered to be... not because they are seeing use in another bracket. Blissey saw use in ubers for a long time and never became banned from OU for it.. It doesn't matter much to me but I like to see consistency.

That's because Ubers is a banlist, not a true tier like UU and OU. The UU list is decided by Pokemon usage in OU, and the NU list is decided by Pokemon useage in UU (thanks Doug for that info).

 

[Naxte]

I was under the impression pokemon are uu based on not being unbalancing to that metagame which I don't recall umbreon being considered to be... not because they are seeing use in another bracket. Blissey saw use in ubers for a long time and never became banned from OU for it.. It doesn't matter much to me but I like to see consistency.

That's becuase Ubers is primarily a ban-list like Borderline, and that's why usage there doesn't matter: because those are "pseudo"-tiers, just lists of Pokemon too strong for a tier, and thus usage has nothing to do with them.

OU, Overused, and UU, Underused, however, are tiers based on usage, and hence the "used" in thier names. Thus, if something is used enough to qualify as OU, it will be kicked out of UU if it's currently there, since it would be messy and confusing to see something listed as OU, but able to be used in UU.

 

[MegaKick]

well, even if tangrowth isn't allowed in NU now, with donphan and dugtrio comming down, he will get a huge spike in usage. Everything except tangrowth, dugtrio and donphan in my UU team will fly, levitate, or hold shed shell. There will also be a rise in yanmega usage, thanks to improved spinning. Shed shell will rock in this metagame, put it on anything weak to earthquake. Have choice band duggie's lock themselves into earthquake to become setup fodder for any flyer or levitator. After all, no duggi user will predict a switch, right?

I predict ninetales will replace almost every drifblim as the premeir speciel sweeper.

 

[supermarth64]

Are you kidding me? I had a team all set up for an NU tournament I'm in and then Tangrowth had to go and leave...

Any other walls like that in NU?

 

[franky]

Are you kidding me? I had a team all set up for an NU tournament I'm in and then Tangrowth had to go and leave...

Any other walls like that in NU?

Sadly no. Tangrowth got lucky he slipped under the radar in NU, it should be UU if not OU where it does its job better.

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

I was under the impression pokemon are uu based on not being unbalancing to that metagame which I don't recall umbreon being considered to be... not because they are seeing use in another bracket. Blissey saw use in ubers for a long time and never became banned from OU for it.. It doesn't matter much to me but I like to see consistency.

To put it simply, Ubers is a ban list, so getting a lot of usage in Ubers won't move you up a usage tier (not to mention, OU is the highest usage tier). The Ubers ladder has no effect whatsoever on the tier list. A Pokemon's usage in the usage tiers (OU, UU, NU, etc.) is what determines the tier list.

Ubers having a ladder seems to confuse a few people, making them think Ubers is a usage tier, but it isn't. The Ubers ladder is simply just a ladder with all Pokemon allowed. Sort of like an 'Anything Goes' ladder.

 

[MegaKick]

when are dugtrio and donphan going to be implemented? I'm on shoddy right now and it won't let me use them in UU.

 

[Veedrock]

Sadly no. Tangrowth got lucky he slipped under the radar in NU, it should be UU if not OU where it does its job better.

Celebi does everything Tangrowth can do better in OU, so even if it's 'better' there (don't see how it is tbh), it's still outdone by something else.

when are dugtrio and donphan going to be implemented? I'm on shoddy right now and it won't let me use them in UU.

If you'd actually read the first post:

The required changes to the UU ladder will probably happen once the current UU testing is over, and not immediately.

 

[Dubulous]

today, while i was at work, the only thing that i could think of was how to stop what will be the dugtrio in every team.

work sucked today.

 

[capefeather]

Thanks, X-Act. I think I might have seen that somewhere before, or maybe it's deja vu. Probably the former lol. I haven't taken stats since high school, so I don't know whether I should even ask where all that came from XD.

(But wait... Isn't this the same as just dividing the weighted total of all the p's by 4(1 - 0.5^0.05)?)

I fear what Donphan and Dugtrio are going to do to my team, half of which is weak to ground but otherwise is fine O_O

 

[Random Pizzaman]

Dugtrio is gonna be super fun to kill off Chansey & Regi's with, although Registeel will undoubtedly carry Ice Punch now since it can take an EQ

 

[Erodent]

today, while i was at work, the only thing that i could think of was how to stop what will be the dugtrio in every team.

work sucked today.

Although Dugtrio looks frightening, there are actually many Pokemon that hit far harder in UU. Anyway, Dugtrio does have a number of effective counters in its new tier. Torterra resists both Earthquake and Stone Edge, although it does have to fear Aerial Ace. The same applies to Tangrowth. Aerial Ace seems like it threatens Tangrowth, but:

388 Atk vs 328 Def & 404 HP (60 Base Power): 102 - 122 (25.25% - 30.20%)

And that's CBDugtrio. Donphan has high defense too - I'm sure it can take a hit and retaliate against Dugtrio, who is frail. If Dugtrio is locked onto Earthquake, Mismagius can come in and set up...the list goes on, actually. There are many solutions :)

 

[Random Pizzaman]

Oh definitely, Dugtrio is quite weak. But the reason people are fearing it is becuse it will take Chansey out of the picture 100% of the time barring shed shell (which I could see happening) and can take out Registeel, letting a bunch of special sweepers ravage a team

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Although Dugtrio looks frightening, there are actually many Pokemon that hit far harder in UU. Anyway, Dugtrio does have a number of effective counters in its new tier. Torterra resists both Earthquake and Stone Edge, although it does have to fear Aerial Ace. The same applies to Tangrowth. Aerial Ace seems like it threatens Tangrowth, but:

And that's CBDugtrio. Donphan has high defense too - I'm sure it can take a hit and retaliate against Dugtrio, who is frail. If Dugtrio is locked onto Earthquake, Mismagius can come in and set up...the list goes on, actually. There are many solutions :)

You're missing the point. It's not that Dugtrio doesn't have things that beat it, it's that with Arena Trap, it can basically dismantle teams member by member with impunity. There are no counters when you can't switch anything in. Tangrowth is just an example of something that Dugtrio can't take advantage of, and in most cases, that doesn't matter. Dugtrio + a bunch of special attackers is pretty solid for a team, IMO, as you can just eliminate Chansey with BandTrio and then rape teams with stuff like Specs Magmortar, any Yanmega, etc.

 

[Makeshift Patriot]

I'm expecting the inclusion of Dugtrio in UU to spark a large increase in Mismagius usage, even more used than it is now. The first reason is because it can set up on Duggy if its locked in on Earthquake. For this reason, I'm expecting LOtrio to be used over CBtrio, because nobobdy wants to give Missy a free sub.

Secondly, Duggy can get rid of Registeel and all his friends that like to spoil Missy's fun. This means no more Drapion too, and obviously Umbreon is OU and is out of the picture.

Expect more Missies, basically.

 

[Random Pizzaman]

So then then I'll expect the typical team taking advantage of duggy to be: Dugtrio/ Missy/ Missy counter/ special sweeper/ special sweeper/ SR or spiker

 

[Phadunk]

My Umbreon is back to being badass.

Thank you.. thank you..

 

[Bobbery]

This may be slightly irrelevant, but I'd like to say that I'm happy with Tangrowth's "promotion", as he's one of my favorites. Dugtrio sounds like he'll be quite the bastard. I don't really think much of Donphan, and I'm proud of Umbreon. As for the others that have been banished to NU, they're quite the cool crowd and it's a shame to see them go, not that I'm surprised, though.

 

[Sceats]

lol tangrowth was in almost every team in nu, now that hes gone people have to be far more inventive with things like relicanth and leafeon.

 

[Lemmiwinks MkII]

So then then I'll expect the typical team taking advantage of duggy to be: Dugtrio/ Missy/ Missy counter/ special sweeper/ special sweeper/ SR or spiker

It certainly wouldn't be smart to rely completely on Dugtrio to kill Chansey though. Imagine:

Dugtrio used Earthquake!
Chansey lost 60% of its health!
Chansey used Counter!
Dugtrio lost 100% of its health!
Player's Dugtrio fainted!

Oh shit, now I have nothing left that can do 45% damage to Chansey. I'm screwed!

And CM Sub Mismagius has got to be the most overrated setup sweeper in history. It has so many defensive counters, and just as many offensive checks even in the absence of Honchkrow, making it easy to deal with using both stall and offense. The Pursuit weakness is a huge liability, making it easy pickings for Ambipom and Drapion among others.