Nominating Keldeo for S rank
Keldeo basically has two typings I've seen it use Ground and Steel. Specs can be used to like it's used in OU going in and out and spamming Scald and secret sword.
But what really makes Keldeo S rank is Sub Calm mind. I've been using Steel Sub CM Keldeo. It's neutral to Fairy, Psychic, Flying and Grass which is amazing. It sets up on Mega Venusaur as your sub survives a Giga drain after +1. It's simply amazing how easily you can set up. I'm pretty exhaused at the moment but I don't feel like this will be a hard submission as there's few arguments against this nomination. I love all the discussion on the page atm.
... Keldeo is not S-rank. It's S-rank in Standard primarily because Secret Sword gives it the distinction of being the only Special attacker that can simply shove Chansey aside. Ghost Chansey is the default in Hidden Type, taking away its greatest strength. Not only that, but its painfully limited movepool means it's ability to get offensive utility out of an added type is almost literally restricted to Hidden Power STAB, and its typing is in an awkward position where there's just not any really amazing add from a defensive perspective. It also doesn't heavily value any specific utility of any type, especially since the Substitute-Calm mind set is protected from Prankster Thunder Wave and the like by the Substitute itself and it's not really scared of trappers, so it just gets very little out of this meta.
Not only that, but Unaware Water Clefable defeats it completely, resisting Fighting and Water (And Icy Wind while it's at it) and ignoring all those Calm Minds, all while knowing for a fact that Moon Blast will be at
least neutral against it. (Dragon Clefable
also walls its STABs)
Ghost Ferrothorn is also unimpressed with its STABs, being only really bothered by the Burn chance on Scald.
Etc.
Keldeo is certainly still relevant to the Hidden Type meta, but compared to Standard it's almost
all downside, and, again, its single greatest advantage is taken away from it. I'd place it at B+,
maybe somewhere in A. The hit it takes from Hidden Type is just so huge, and attempting to compensate will tend to make things worse. (If you have Ghost typing to protect it from Chansey's Seismic Toss, that's pretty much the
only utility you're getting out of that typing)
I'd like to add two points.
-Electric typing lets it push past Flying Heatran using Hidden Power Electric. (Not Grass Heatran, alas) It has the additional bonus of rendering it immune to Paralysis, which is actually
huge since it's so badly crippled by being Paralyzed normally and Prankster Thunder Wave is absolutely a thing.
-Conversely, Dragon Clefable completely walls most variations, being resistant to Fire, Bug, Grass, Electric... all while Unaware.
I'm also not sure why Electric Gardevoir is that high. It's a rather poor Mega compared to everything else in that rank, and while it's good it's just a tad too highly ranked in my opinion. A- sounds like a nice place for it
It hits brutally hard against a wide variety of (Relevant) targets, its Speed of 100 is actually quite good in the overall slower Hidden Type meta, it has a wide variety of support tools for messing with things that expect to be able to tank its straight firepower (Will O Wisp, Thunder Wave, Taunt...), the Paralysis immunity actually ensures that it will
hold that Speed tier... it's a
really good Pokemon, and even its fragility is surprisingly manageable. Banded Brave Bird off Talonflame is not a OHKO, where it is in Standard, for instance.
So we're doing great now really fixing up the ladder. I have a suggestion, in OU viability rankings they're going down the list in an effort to clean it up, so that's what I think we should do!
Starting with S rank!
This is how the S rank should look like:
Dragonite (steel)
Manaphy (grass)
Landorus-I (poison/dark)
Keldeo (steel/ground)
Mega Altaria (fire/steel)
Heatran (flying)
We should also cut up S rank, from + to -
I doubt + to - is going to be implemented for S rank. And, again, Keldeo isn't S, I disagree that Mega Altaria is S (And so do a bunch of other people!), and Heatran is most certainly
not S. Heatran is held back by its lack of recovery and poor Speed, when the main value it brings to the table is walling a lot of things -that's a lot harder when it's totally reliant on Leftovers and Wish passing to have staying power.
The only thing I see as plausible for moving up to S out of current nominations is
Mew, which could potentially be ridiculously amazing if people really start trying to exploit its immense versatility, rather than just running OU Stallbreaker Mew and slapping on Dark for STAB Knock Off. Maybe Dark Death Diggersby if it proves to be even more amazing at this extremely narrow role than it's already proven. And I'm skeptical of even those.
I'd make an argument for Altaria having great synergy with Dragonite. You can use their stabs (Dragon & Fairy) and then you can mix and match their coverage move. Hard to explain but let me try. When you put Dnite and Maltaria together you can use Earthquake on Dnite and Fire blast on Altaria. Then they can function as flying spam, one of them weakens for the other. But you can also change it up, give Dnite Fire punch and Altaria Earthquake for unpredictability. Excellent offensive synergy, You can also run a third move on Dnite, like Thunder punch or Aqua tail to take out Heatran. Mega Altaria is a heavily centralising pokemon in this metagame that easily 6-0s unprepared teams
Yes, and prepared teams are
reliably prepared for any variation of Mega Altaria. Part of why Dragonite is S rank is that pretty much any check or counter is only to a specific build -add the right coverage and it dies. Landorus-Incarnate has a similar dynamic ("I brought my special wall, and WAIT KNOCK OFF WHAT" "I brought my Pokemon that walls Knock Off, Sludge Wave, and Earth Power WAIT GRAVITY WHAT"), while Manaphy doesn't but it's fine because it can 6-0 even prepared teams with good prediction or team support. (Back when Hidden Type had a ladder the first time,
Old_Gregg had Zapdos passing Agility to it, and this could wreck teams reliant on revengers that are faster than Manaphy)
Hey guys :) I wanted to play the meta but didn't find any calculator that was able to calculate triple weaknesses, so I decided to make one.
I posted it in the OM chat already after asking a driver+, I made it myself this afternoon and is really simple to use.
If you see any mistakes (a typing that doesn't have the correct values) or bugs, don't hesitate to tell me so I can fix them :)
http://regilio.vdzel.com/triplecalc/
I hope it'll be useful :)
Nice!
But I already hit a bug: I input Fighting/Water/Steel and it claims Dark is neutrally effective against it.
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Nominating
Dark or Ground Mega Beedrill for C+. Dark Mega Beedrill has an insanely hard-hitting Knock Off that almost nothing wants to switch in on, while Ground Mega Beedrill's Drill Run is amazing support to its U-Turn and, crucially, renders it neutral to Stealth Rock, offering far more endurance over the course of a match when U-Turning out constantly. Even its fragility is manageable, because priority is surprisingly uncommon, and with Hidden Type running on the slow side it has more potential to simply Mega Evolve and attack, rather than
having to Protect on the first. (Though in practice it usually will have to do so anyway, but it helps) Its biggest problem is that it competes with other Megas (Most notably Mega Altaria), and its
other biggest problem is that there are other, arguably better Pokemon for the hit-and-run role. Also, U-Turn is far more commonly resisted, double resisted, or even merely neutral where it would be super effective -Ghost Ferrothorn resists, Ghost and Flying Tyranitar are neutral, Steel Dragonite is
doubly resistant, etc. It helps that Grass is an add on some crucial Pokemon, such as Manaphy, but while Mega Beedrill definitely does some cool things, it just isn't a defining threat. More's the pity. :(