Heatran (Full Revamp) +

[Mekkah]

@ Misaki-Chi: I made 99% of the changes, but I left "Thunderwave" as is, because that is how it is spelt in game. I changed Ancientpower to how it is spelt in-game so why be inconstent, right?

I would think it's Thunder Wave.

[19:58:32] <+Mekkah> guys
[19:58:34] <+Mekkah> it's thunder wave right
[19:58:36] <+Mekkah> not thunderwave
[19:58:50] <+darkie> thunder wave
[19:58:54] <+Stellar> Thunder Wave

http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/thunder_wave

 

[Bourbon]

Ok, will do mekkah

 

[Syberia]

No mention of Tyranitar as a potential counter? Careful T-Tar with 252 HP / 200 Sdef takes 29% maximum from a Timid Earth Power, and can hit back with EQ or Stone Edge.

 

[Bourbon]

whoa, didn't know SpD oriented Tyranitar was that sturdy... but then again, it's about as tough as Bold Blissey. Added.

 

[Stellar]

Just posting to say that the Stealth Rock + Explode set is absolutely amazing. I would suggest at least moving it up above Taunt.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Aw man, I posted a set in the creative movesets thread that is exactly the same as your pseudo scarf set =(. I'll link you to it, if you want to add anything from my analysis to your official one then be my guest.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1557513&postcount=1027

You might want to mention that Heatran is so effective at Sub Salac because it resists every priority attack in the game bar Aqua Jet, and that +2 Atk Scizor Bullet Punch only manages 24%.

Quite gutted you got this first, but feel free to take anything from mine and add it to your own.

LR

EDIT: In Other Options, you might want to mention Shuca Berry. It will allow Heatran to always survive an Earth Power from Life Orb Modest Heatran, and then OHKO back with its own Earth Power. It also doesn't give away that you aren't running Scarf, so it is perfect if a Heatran switches into your Fire Blast.

 

[cim]

You might want to mention that Heatran is so effective at Sub Salac because it resists every priority attack in the game bar Aqua Jet, and that +2 Atk Scizor Bullet Punch only manages 24%.

Quite gutted you got this first, but feel free to take anything from mine and add it to your own.

I don't understand why set attribution matters at all.

Heatran is also weak to Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave.

 

[Legacy Raider]

No no, it's not set attribution. I'd be happy to have another of my analyses on site, even if I remain anonymous. And thanks for picking up the Fighting moves, I missed those.

 

[thechocolatebunny]

is there a life orb set in there, i think that deservese a mention just because it gets the attack boost and can attack freely

 

[ViVi]

The Will-o-Wisp + Stealth Rock set was taken out? It freaking owns..

 

[Not Scicky]

People might want to know how to get the best hidden powers so here they are...

HP GRASS:
Modest: 2 ATK, 30 SPATK
Naive: 26 ATK, 30 SPATK
Timid: 2 ATK, 30 SPATK

HP ICE:
Naive: 30 ATK, 30 DEF
Timid: 22 ATK, 30 DEF

HP ELECTRIC:
Timid: 30 SPATK

 

[Bourbon]

Oh wow, sweet! Thanks... :P I am going to add these to the analysis.

 

[RaikouLover]

Wanted to improve on this set skiddle, since I just recommended it to Chris is Me for his Empoleon team. I've been using it for months and thing this set may even be more useful than the Choice Specs set, as I haven't seen a Choice Specs Heatran in MONTHS! Requesting this to be moved up...

[SET]
name: Bait-Tran
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Explosion
move 3: Fire Blast / Flamethrower
move 4: Earth Power
item: Life Orb
nature: Hasty
Ivs: 30 SpD
evs: 56 Atk / 200 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p> This set is nearly guarenteed to remove your opponent's main Heatran counter, which is usually a bulky Water type like Vaporeon, or everyone's favorite obese nurse. The idea is to play this like a regular Heatran, coming in on a pokemon that you immediately threaten and force out. Use Stealth Rock on the switch to benefit your team and scout for the counter while concealing Life Orb recoil. Now you have two options; you can blow up immediately, or switch out to lure your opponent into a false sense of security. Next time Heatran enters the battle, simply explode on the incoming Blissey / Bulky Water, thus clearing the way for a special sweeper or something that hates bulky Waters. When engaging stall teams, it is best to note that they play more conservatively and are more likely to protect with their Blisseys or Vaporeons on turn one, so predict accordingly.</p>

<p> The Attack EVs and Life Orb allow you to always OHKO Bold 188 HP / Max Def Vaporeon, along with Max Def Blissey 100% of the time. Otherwise, simply play this as a standard attacking Heatran. It has enough speed to outrun most Gyarados also if they show up, and will OHKO offensive varients regardless of Intimidate.</p>

---------
Listed IV combination for legality's sake, since I've been using it forever.

 

[darkie]

What is the status on this? This revamp is -kind of- important as Heatran is only, what, the #1 pokemon in terms of usage now.

 

[Jimbo]

Lastly, Explosion is for when Heatran is on the verge of death, and it will likely take something down with it.</p>

<p> Max speed is absolutely necessary. As Heatran is quite popular, and counters itself fairly decently, you will want to, at worst, tie with other Choice Scarf Heatran. The extra HP gain won't help that much either.

The whole first sentence of that quote is a bit awkward to me.

 

[diinbong]

Why is Deoxys-S mentioned as one of the only things it doesn't outspeed (Scarf Set)? It's Uber, so if you were considering Ubers as well, wouldn't you say Deoxys and Deoxys-A outspeed too?

 

[Bourbon]

When I wrote this Deoxys-E was still a non uber. I will change this.

 

[green_flash]

Stealth/Exploding set seems to be made for Magma Storm. Just in case you do not Explode on Tyranitar after the Swampert/Blissey switch out once you reveal your Life Orb.

To relegate Will-o-wisp merely to other option seems a waste to me...

Flash Cannon, while not as useful as other moves in Heatran's arsenal, should not go alongside the completely gimmick Dark Pulse and AncientPower: if nothing, because you can abuse it in order to kill special defensive oriented Rock types in a Sandstream (it OHKOs Aero and I think it kills TTar in a couple of hits). Still, it's other option material...

 

[jrrrrrrr]

I am confident that Dragon Pulse deserves to be used over HP Ice everywhere that it appears. Dragon Pulse has more base power and is just a generally better "safe move". Since both Dragon Pulse and HP Ice would be used to hit the same one pokemon, and Dragon Pulse hits a lot more of Heatran's counters for neutral or better damage (hi Kingdra), I think it at least deserves a mention. Does anyone else agree?

 

[Syberia]

I used to run Dragon Pulse Heatran for "neutral coverage," I lost more than once because I was unable to OHKO Salamence/Flygon when I was relying on it to do so. It does 69% maximum to Mence with Timid/Scarf, not even enough to kill with SR down. Now I always run HP Ice.

 

[Bourbon]

OK, how about this, at the beginning of "Other Options"

"The threat of Kingdra is reason enough to use Dragon Pulse over Hidden Power Ice on any of the sets listed here. It does enough damage to 2HKO the seahorse regardless of EV spread. However, Dragon Pulse doesn't do 4x damage to Salamence, Dragonite or Flygon, which means you will never OHKO them. Dragon Pulse is a more general move, getting plenty of neutrality and doing good damage to all Dragon-type Pokemon, while Hidden Power Ice does more damage to Salamence, Dragonite and Flygon. Give both consideration when putting Heatran into a team."

"Hidden Power Electric can get surprise kills on Gyarados..."

Yes? No? Shorter maybe, I didn't think it'd be that long winded.

 

[Zoro]

Actually not sure about this one, but in the legal IV section, shouldnt it actually be SpA and not SpAtk ?

 

[Peachfuzz]

Should there be any mention of Heatran's performance in the Ubers tier? Heatran has always been usable there, being a great Dialga switch and gaining a lot from Groudon's sun.

 

[Syberia]

Shorter is better :P

"The threat of Kingdra is reason enough to use Dragon Pulse over Hidden Power Ice on any of the sets listed here, especially on the Scarf set, as you will outspeed Adamant Kingdra even after one Dragon Dance. It will 2HKO the seahorse regardless of EV spread, however, Dragon Pulse doesn't do enough damage to OHKO Salamence, Flygon, or Dragonite even after switching into Stealth Rock. Dragon Pulse offers more general coverage, while Hidden Power Ice is good for the OHKO on the specific threats mentioned above. For this reason, you should give both consideration when putting Heatran into your team.

 

[Bourbon]

thanks syberia, better than my version by quite a bit. Adding