Gallade (Lead)

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Setsuna

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Okay, it's time to veto this discussion about Swords Dance on the proposed lead set. I will not support the removal of Zen Headbutt just for the sake of giving Gallade an opportunity to attempt a sweep at the very beginning of the match -- that's not what the information of the OP is intended for.

Any other post regarding Swords Dance gets deleted.
 

remlabmez

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I've tried Gallade as a lead before, and Leaf Blade was too highly specialized and I didn't like using it as much. Perhaps you do not enjoy the low accuracy Hypnosis brings to the table, but I enjoy using Hypnosis in the fourth slot of that set in order to sleep Hippowdon, forretress, and swampert, generally any bulky or slow lead that you can't break will usually take a sleep, which is very useful. Worst case scenario is it misses, but it's not too bad considering you can use Gallade late game and give your opponent a scare by threatening a sleep. It's a high risk high reward move, and I like taking that risk. Hypnosis has the potential to cover things you previously couldn't with any other move Gallade has in its disposal because it prevents your opponent from making a move. Furthermore, it is another option that Gallade has that Machamp lacks, and is one of the main reasons I would use Gallade over Machamp. Sleep is good.

Other than that I'd like to see a slash or a mention of hypnosis in the set and I'll approve.

eDiT: good job metanite thats how i taught you


koala tea control approved {1/3}
^

koala tea control approved {2/3}
 
From the 2/3 QC approvals, I take it that Hypnosis now warrants a slash or AC mention? While I agree with "high risk-high reward", I don't think that most players would want to take that risk on a regular basis in ladder matches. I would imagine that was part of the reason that Hypnosis was removed from most lead sets following Platinum's release.

Also, would it be possible for SD to merit a sentence in the additional comments? While boosting early is generally inadvisable, it might appeal to some users at least to scout the opponent's team. Panamaxis put forth the argument that Machamp --> Rotom-A --> Scizor would be an easy play-around to the SD set, but surely one could say that the other player is at a disadvantage after having revealed 1/2 of their team and risking taking a predicted hit at each switch. In Plus's approval, he referenced the lategame utility of Hypnosis. Surely one could see lategame utility in SD as well. Not to mention that Gallade bears a lot of resemblance to Lucario, and its attacking lead includes a mention of SD. A simple sentence such as, "While not always advisable, Swords Dance could be used over Zen Headbutt to allow Gallade to KO bulky leads in one hit and give the possibility of a sweep should Gallade survive later into the match," would suffice.
 

Seven Deadly Sins

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From the 2/3 QC approvals, I take it that Hypnosis now warrants a slash or AC mention? While I agree with "high risk-high reward", I don't think that most players would want to take that risk on a regular basis in ladder matches. I would imagine that was part of the reason that Hypnosis was removed from most lead sets following Platinum's release.

Also, would it be possible for SD to merit a sentence in the additional comments? While boosting early is generally inadvisable, it might appeal to some users at least to scout the opponent's team. Panamaxis put forth the argument that Machamp --> Rotom-A --> Scizor would be an easy play-around to the SD set, but surely one could say that the other player is at a disadvantage after having revealed 1/2 of their team and risking taking a predicted hit at each switch. In Plus's approval, he referenced the lategame utility of Hypnosis. Surely one could see lategame utility in SD as well. Not to mention that Gallade bears a lot of resemblance to Lucario, and its attacking lead includes a mention of SD. A simple sentence such as, "While not always advisable, Swords Dance could be used over Zen Headbutt to allow Gallade to KO bulky leads in one hit and give the possibility of a sweep should Gallade survive later into the match," would suffice.
Yes to the first part, no to the second. Quality Control has decided that Swords Dance isn't a move that warrants mention, as it significantly decreases the effectiveness of this set, and the version that was passed is a version without Swords Dance. Also, Hypnosis was never discussed, and Plus is the only person that even mentioned it. I don't endorse the use of Hypnosis in the slightest.
 
Destiny Bond can have a small mention in AC, but may not serve much against other leads, but can be an interesting move to take a Pokemon with Gallade weakened in midgame.
 

Setsuna

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I agree with my colleague Seven Deadly Sins. Regarding Hypnosis, I approve of an OC mention. Really, when you have the repertoire of moves that Gallade has, plus the required power to make use of them, why bothering taking chances and hoping that Hypnosis hits the target? That's the way I see it, and taking this into account, I honestly think that mention Hypnosis in OC is more than enough.
 
Regarding Hypnosis, I approve of an OC mention. Really, when you have the repertoire of moves that Gallade has, plus the required power to make use of them, why bothering taking chances and hoping that Hypnosis hits the target? That's the way I see it, and taking this into account, I honestly think that mention Hypnosis in OC is more than enough.
Hypnosis getting a mention and Swords Dance not is a fucking joke. Sixty percent accuracy has more midgame relevance than 100% +2 boost? No, thats just wrong. Completely and utterly wrong. Vetoing it in favor of Hypnosis is just proving the lack of integrity about this system simply because Hypnosis was brought up by a fellow QC member, not because of its viability (and Swords Dance's apparent lacktherof)
 

Seven Deadly Sins

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Hypnosis getting a mention and Swords Dance not is a fucking joke. Sixty percent accuracy has more midgame relevance than 100% +2 boost? No, thats just wrong. Completely and utterly wrong. Vetoing it in favor of Hypnosis is just proving the lack of integrity about this system simply because Hypnosis was brought up by a fellow QC member, not because of its viability (and Swords Dance's apparent lacktherof)
I don't understand why you're so angry about this. Hypnosis isn't getting a mention in the actual set, and listing Swords Dance in Optional Changes would just be silly because it already has a full set on the analysis, and it isn't very good in the lead position. We're not "vetoing it in favor of Hypnosis" and I personally object to its inclusion at all. However, we'd appreciate it if you would respect the QC team's decision to leave Swords Dance out of the lead set and keep it in its own set where it belongs, rather than making veiled accusations about favoritism which are blatantly disrespectful at best.
 
Hypnosis getting a mention and Swords Dance not is a fucking joke. Sixty percent accuracy has more midgame relevance than 100% +2 boost? No, thats just wrong. Completely and utterly wrong. Vetoing it in favor of Hypnosis is just proving the lack of integrity about this system simply because Hypnosis was brought up by a fellow QC member, not because of its viability (and Swords Dance's apparent lacktherof)
If I were to be perfectly honest with you, I would tell you that I would prefer Swords Dance over Hypnosis on this set, because my personal preference is to absolutely never use Hypnosis on anything. But you need to take a chill pill and realize that whether or not a specific move makes it onto an analysis is not a life-or-death situation like you make things out to be. I'm pretty sure Swords Dance is a pretty obvious option if a user wants to go that route, but we felt Swords Dance specifically should not be put on the set because it makes the set itself inferior to the non-Swords Dance version. It's simply a matter of opinion, that's all. Your opinion does not agree with ours, and that's that. Hypnosis on the other hand provides Gallade with something that the original set does not, so we felt like that was an okay thing to put in the OC. It's our job as QC to make sure we push analyses along with what we believe to be the best possible versions of sets, without letting things drag on for too long to the point where the author himself loses interest. For the sake of moving the analysis along, we came together and made a decision. It really is not the end of the world, relax.

That being said, I would like to request that you do not make anymore exceedingly over the top posts like that in the future, as posts like that tend to derail topics. I'm letting you slide this time, because I wanted to address your concerns, but that sort of behavior could easily be grounds for a warning.
 

panamaxis

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meh forget what I originally had, basically I was gonna say Raikoulover brings up some good points but then I realised that if we mention SD then it's just the exact same set that we already have in the analysis.

Destiny Bond can have a small mention in AC, but may not serve much against other leads, but can be an interesting move to take a Pokemon with Gallade weakened in midgame.
I don't think it's worth losing one of the other moves.

everything looks good.
 

Super Mario Bro

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meh forget what I originally had, basically I was gonna say Raikoulover brings up some good points but then I realised that if we mention SD then it's just the exact same set that we already have in the analysis.
Swords Dance is mentioned in the lead Lucario set on-site, so why not on this? In fact, it's not only mentioned; it's also slashed.

In fact, why would you even use this set over Lucario? Just so you can beat Machamp? lol
 

Seven Deadly Sins

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Well, Machamp IS a fairly big deal. Gallade also beats Ape, whereas a LO Lucario loses horribly to both Fire Blast and Close Combat. Shadow Sneak also wards off Rotom-A more effectively, since it hits Scarfed Rotom-A, which Luke can't do. It's not weak to Earthquake, meaning that it doesn't get instapwned by Aerodactyl. It's not weak to Azelf's Fire Blast as well. Gallade also packs more punch, with 10 more base Attack. This allows it to potentially 2HKO Swampert with Jolly LO Close Combat, which Lucario can't do with a similar set.

More on-topic, please stop discussing Swords Dance. It's already been decided against, and further discussion would simply drive this more off-topic.
 

Seven Deadly Sins

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Lead Lucario isn't all that good, and it also serves a completely different purpose. The Lead Lucario also happens to use Counter, since it plays on the "potential threat" of allowing Lucario to set up Swords Dance on turn 1 with a Focus Sash.

As far as attacking leads go, Gallade is significantly better than Lucario.
 
I read this and if I'm looking at this right, the reason a Jolly nature is being favored over an Adamant one is because this allows Gallade to outspeed Heatran and Dragonite leads correct?

However, Dragonite anti-lead only has 4 Speed EVs and Heatran would waste the first turn setting up a Stealth Rock and can be 1HKO'd by Close Combat.

Shouldn't instead Gallade use the same EV spread but with an Adamant nature? A further advantage is that Gallade can equip the Expert Belt instead of a Life Orb. It can still 2HKO Azelf with Shadow Sneak, 1HKO Machamp, 1HKO Infernape, 2HKO Aerodactyle, etc.

As for optional change recommendations for the fourth moveslot, I would like to recommend Destiny Bond for mid-late game for a guaranteed KO.
 

Super Mario Bro

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Lead Lucario isn't all that good, and it also serves a completely different purpose. The Lead Lucario also happens to use Counter, since it plays on the "potential threat" of allowing Lucario to set up Swords Dance on turn 1 with a Focus Sash.

As far as attacking leads go, Gallade is significantly better than Lucario.
That's not the point. I'm trying to say that if Lucario has Swords Dance mentioned on his lead analysis, why shouldn't it be mentioned on Gallade's? I'll even quote you on this one:

and listing Swords Dance in Optional Changes would just be silly because it already has a full set on the analysis, and it isn't very good in the lead position
Lucario has Swords Dance mentioned on his lead analysis, even though it has a separate set entirely. Your final point is subjective and RL has pointed out in previous pages why Swords Dance can be superior in certain cases.
 

Seven Deadly Sins

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That's not the point. I'm trying to say that if Lucario has Swords Dance mentioned on his lead analysis, why shouldn't it be mentioned on Gallade's? I'll even quote you on this one:

Lucario has Swords Dance mentioned on his lead analysis, even though it has a separate set entirely. Your final point is subjective and RL has pointed out in previous pages why Swords Dance can be superior in certain cases.
Stop. Now. You've been warned enough, and I'm getting tired of people ignoring QC's decision here. Swords Dance isn't getting a slash. End of story.
 
Super Mario Bro said:
That's not the point. I'm trying to say that if Lucario has Swords Dance mentioned on his lead analysis, why shouldn't it be mentioned on Gallade's? I'll even quote you on this one:
Because Lucario is an actually common Pokemon. People assume, by default, that all Lucario have Swords Dance, and therefore the user of a lead Lucario can either take advantage of that or actually use it. Note also that Lucario uses a Focus Sash in conjunction with Counter, so that he will always survive one turn and be able to +2 ExtremeSpeed at worst. Gallade neither uses a Focus Sash nor does it have access to that powerful priority. (Shadow Sneak sucks)

Hopefully my explanation makes it painfully obvious why SD does not deserve a slash on this set.
 
I definetly prefer jolly with max speed and attack. Qith all the specs/LO trans around in the lead position, it's always great to have something that can take it out in one hit. Also, i think choice band should get a mention, although i agree LO is the better option. With it, you always kill lead dragonite with stone edge and zapdos/gyarados with stealth rock. Trick can also be useful to screw special attackers like rotom. Great lead set, it works wonders
 

His Eminence Lord Poppington II

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Alternative EV spread is max hp max attack with an adamant nature, as you're not going to outspeed much anyway, and you outspeed machamp / swampert regardless.
 
Poppycock said:
Alternative EV spread is max hp max attack with an adamant nature, as you're not going to outspeed much anyway, and you outspeed machamp / swampert regardless.
No; it's pretty damned important to outspeed Heatran.
 
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