Resource Don't Use That; Use This (ORAS Version)

[Empress]

Don't use this:

Azelf @ Focus Sash
EVs: 196 Atk / 60 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- Fire Blast / Skill Swap
- Taunt

Why it's bad:
The rises of Garchomp and Landorus-T have made Azelf much less effective of a Stealth Rock setter as it used to be. Even the most offensive of teams typically need a lead that has defensive merit and is able to set up rocks more than once per match, so slapping Azelf on your team will often leave you with one Pokemon down.

Instead, use this:

Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 76 SpD / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake / Toxic
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast / Toxic

Why it's better:
This is a much better Stealth Rock lead for your offensive team; it doesn't even have to be used in the lead spot, either. As a Stealth Rock setter that has plenty of offensive and defensive merit, Tank Chomp will set up and maintain Stealth Rock much more reliably than Azelf can. Guaranteed or your money back.

Alternatively, use this:

Azelf @ Light Clay
EVs: 176 HP / 80 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Taunt
- Explosion

Why it's better:
If you really want to use Azelf on your team, then this is its most effective set in the current metagame. While Klefki may initially appear to outclass it as a dual screens setter, Azelf can more reliably bring in your team's win condition after setting up screens. It has Taunt to block Defoggers that may try to remove your screens, and it has Explosion to give your wincon a free switch into the battlefield, two things that Klefki cannot boast. Though I don't have the replays conveniently available to me, I saw dual screens Azelf work quite well in the WCoP matches where it was used.

 

[SketchUp]

Are you seriously saying we shouldn't use Azelf as a suicide lead? That's pretty interesting because I didn't know your bulky rock setters (lando-t / chomp) had 115 base speed, taunt and explosion. Especially if you use stuff like Zard, Alt or Genies you definitely don't want rocks on the field and Garchomp / Lando guarantee that Ferro, Skarm, Balloontran, Hippow and opposing Lando-T get their rocks on the field. Sure Azelf lost some viability but rocks lead is still its biggest niche and nowhere close to ''don't use this please''

 

[AM]

I'm not laughing though ._.

 

[MrAldo]

I agree that lead Azelf may not be bad enough for "don't use,"

Then why making that post in the first place when it is a way more viable set than the rest of the "dont use"?? Also suicide lead azelf is decent, this shouldnt be here.

 

[pika pal]

If you told the ranking teams and WCoP players that being a suicide lead is Azelf's biggest niche, they'd laugh. Lead Azelf is pretty ass right now because it only gets one shot to get rocks up; while it may be alright against extremely offense teams that often lack entry hazard removal, you're banking on rocks staying on the opponent's side of the field for the entirety of the match. With HO teams like that on the decline, it's not a gamble worth taking the majority of the time. Not to mention it still gets smashed by certain HO staples, such as Mega Lopunny. Being able to screw over opposing SR leads sounds nice on paper, but in the long run, the defensive utility of Garchomp and Lando-T is much more important. DUAL SCREENS IS ITS BEST SET. I agree that lead Azelf may not be bad enough for "don't use," but it's far from a great thing to use in the current metagame.

What would put Suicide Leads on the decline? If anything, Hazard Lead Azelf has an easier time since the balance and Stall teams that employ hazard removal get eaten by things like Hoopa or Zard-X, making offensive teams one of the more viable styles right now.

 

[Physical Tyranitar]

Don't Use This:

@Choice Band
EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Adamant
-Flare Blitz
-ExtremeSpeed
-Sacred Fire
-Stone Edge

Why it's bad:
Entei has seemed to fall from grace over the generations. Although it sports a high attack, it's bad defensive typing and terrible physical movepool mean it cannot deal damage to a variety of opponents. Most standard Overused mons like Garchomp, Landorus-Therian, and Tyranitar will make quick work of the husky, who has a low speed tier, 299, with an Adamant Nature. Without an Adamant Nature it cannot deal substantial amounts of damage.

Instead, Use This:

Choice Band
EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 Defense
Jolly/Adamant Nature
Ability: Gale Wings
-Flare Blitz
-Brave Bird
-U-Turn
-Steel Wing

Why It's Better: While it lacks power (it's attack stat is lower than Amoonguss) and defenses, it is easily the best Brave Bird spammer in the game, because it was blessed with the ability, Gale Wings, which gives priority to Flying Type Moves. This allows Talonflame to be capable of running all sorts of sets that Entei could never even dream of- like defensive, and priority. Talonflamr 4 da win.

 

[p2]

in no way is CB Entei outclassed by CB Talonflame

They do way different things

Entei has Sacred Fire which pretty much means the amount of legitimate switchins are stupidly low, combine that with coverage for Heatran and you've got a mon that is insanely difficult to switch into. It also has better coverage than Talonflame as it has access to Bulldoze, Stone Edge and Extreme Speed, which is one of Entei's main selling points. Plus it doesn't have such a bad SR weakness. Entei also doesn't kill itself from spamming its best move

At this point in the meta, CB Entei > CB Talonflame.

 

[Sablenite]

Don't Use This:
View attachment 50504@Choice Band
EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Adamant
-Flare Blitz
-ExtremeSpeed
-Sacred Fire
-Stone Edge

Why it's bad:
Entei has seemed to fall from grace over the generations. Although it sports a high attack, it's bad defensive typing and terrible physical movepool mean it cannot deal damage to a variety of opponents. Most standard Overused mons like Garchomp, Landorus-Therian, and Tyranitar will make quick work of the husky, who has a low speed tier, 299, with an Adamant Nature. Without an Adamant Nature it cannot deal substantial amounts of damage.

Instead, Use This:

Choice Band
EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 Defense
Jolly/Adamant Nature
Ability: Gale Wings
-Flare Blitz
-Brave Bird
-U-Turn
-Steel Wing
Why It's Better: While it lacks power (it's attack stat is lower than Amoonguss) and defenses, it is easily the best Brave Bird spammer in the game, because it was blessed with the ability, Gale Wings, which gives priority to Flying Type Moves. This allows Talonflame to be capable of running all sorts of sets that Entei could never even dream of- like defensive, and priority. Talonflamr 4 da win.

in no way is CB Entei outclassed by CB Talonflame

They do way different things

Entei has Sacred Fire which pretty much means the amount of legitimate switchins are stupidly low, combine that with coverage for Heatran and you've got a mon that is insanely difficult to switch into. It also has better coverage than Talonflame as it has access to Bulldoze, Stone Edge and Extreme Speed, which is one of Entei's main selling points. Plus it doesn't have such a bad SR weakness. Entei also doesn't kill itself from spamming its best move

At this point in the meta, CB Entei > CB Talonflame.

Agreeing mainly with fleggumfl.

A: Entei has Extreme Speed, meaning it is only out-prioritized by Fake Out and Protect
B: Sacred Fire Burns anything stupid enough to switch in directly to it all half of the time
C: It can KO Heatran, or drop the speed of important things

Actually the only thing I disagree with is the fact you can call one beter than the other because: They hit different things!
The closest thing this should even be on is Entei vs. Arcainine

 

[MQJinx]

Alright here's one outclassed Fire-type wallbreaker that gets some usage:

| Life Orb 13.289% | Choice Band 9.592% |

Don't use this:

@ Life Orb / Choice Band
Why it's bad:
It may be tempting to use offensive Arcanine due to a solid Attack and passable Speed and bulk. This isn't enough to consider using offensive Arcanine over any other Fire-type wallbreaker in OU. Like Darmanitan, it is reliant on Flare Blitz for a Fire STAB, which wears it down quickly. While it may have Close Combat and Wild Charge, the other Fire-types have ways of handling targets of these moves. While Arcanine isn't that great in OU, if you seriously want to use it, take advantage of Intimidate and run a defensive set. As for better offensive options...

Use one of these:

Why they're good:

Simply put, these four are far better options if you want a Fire-type wallbreaker. Victini has a better STAB in V-Create than Arcanine's Flare Blitz, as it has a higher BP and Victini won't get recoil, plus it has Bolt Strike for Electric coverage and Brick Break if you really want to hit Tyranitar. Entei has Sacred Fire to spread burns, and it also has Extreme Speed like Arcanine to pick off weakened threats. Infernape has STAB Close Combat as well as Thunder Punch, as well as many other coverage options to allow it to go mixed. Finally, Emboar has Sucker Punch and STAB Superpower as well as Reckless and higher Attack, and while it's recoil reliant, its increased power more than makes up for it.

 

[michaeloche]

From the 1500 stats:
Waterfall 9.457%
Impish:252/4/252/0/0/0 13.943%

Don't use this:

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Waterfall
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Toxic / Encore

Why it's bad: Waterfall really isn't all that useful on Quagsire. While it does come off of its better physical attack, it still fails to do much the stuff it needs to hit, and Quagsire is way too slow to abuse the flinch chance. Lastly, there's a special move with way better utility, which pretty much rules out running an Impish nature as well. On a side note, it's also not worth running any offensive investment unless you really need to, as Quagsire needs all the bulk it can get.

Instead, use this:

Quagsire @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Toxic / Encore

Why it's better: Scald's burn chance is one of the things that gives Quagsire its utility. When it uses that, it can afford to run a Relaxed nature, because it will not be missing out on outspeeding anything.

 

[AM]

So im gonna go ahead and lock this thread. It keeps getting necrobumped with these weird suggestions where the cycle is goes something along the lines of "dont use this use this completely different mon but really it provides totally different functions." This fosters a result correcting it and overall becomes kind of a poor resource, to myself and some that have addressed this to me. That is all.