Resource Don't Use That; Use This (ORAS Version)

[Water5tar]

Please Don't Use This:

Staraptor @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Double-Edge
- Final Gambit / Close Combat
- U-turn

Why it's bad:
In theory, Double-Edge seems like a great move for Staraptor, it's suggested on both smogon sets, is STAB, has 120 power, and gets a Reckless boost. However, it's a total waste of a moveslot, Normal is resisted by everything Flying is except Electric, and hits nothing for super-effective damage. While you may be thinking that you can use it on Electric types, Staraptor has NO business staying in on those.

-1 252+ Atk Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 195-231 (69.3 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Where it can do this back:
252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Staraptor: 458-540 (147.2 - 173.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 229-271 (75.3 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Where it can do this back:
0 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Staraptor: 236-282 (75.8 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Which will always kill after recoil.

It can, however OHKO Thundurus, but it can be crippled for the entire match if it runs Prankster Thunder Wave.

Instead Use This:

Staraptor @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat
- Final Gambit / Facade / Pursuit
- U-turn

Why It's Infinitely Better:
Although Facade, Pursuit, and Final Gambit aren't the greatest moves on Staraptor, they do at least have SOME use. Being able to always run Close Combat and another move is amazing for Staraptor, as it gives great coverage with Brave Bird, along with Final Gambit as a last ditch effort on counters such as Skarmory while gaining momentum, Facade if you are scared of getting burned, or Pursuit as Staraptor, specifically Scarf, forces a lot of switches. Even if these moves aren't the most useful moves on Staraptor, they are better than Double-Edge in every way.

 

[Kurona]

Please Don't Use This:

Staraptor @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Double-Edge
- Final Gambit / Close Combat
- U-turn

Why it's bad:
In theory, Double-Edge seems like a great move for Staraptor, it's suggested on both smogon sets, is STAB, has 120 power, and gets a Reckless boost. However, it's a total waste of a moveslot, Normal is resisted by everything Flying is except Electric, and hits nothing for super-effective damage. While you may be thinking that you can use it on Electric types, Staraptor has NO business staying in on those.

-1 252+ Atk Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 195-231 (69.3 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Where it can do this back:
252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Staraptor: 458-540 (147.2 - 173.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 229-271 (75.3 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Where it can do this back:
0 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Staraptor: 236-282 (75.8 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Which will always kill after recoil.

It can, however OHKO Thundurus, but it can be crippled for the entire match if it runs Prankster Thunder Wave.

Instead Use This:

Staraptor @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat
- Final Gambit / Facade / Pursuit
- U-turn

Why It's Infinitely Better:
Although Facade, Pursuit, and Final Gambit aren't the greatest moves on Staraptor, they do at least have SOME use. Being able to always run Close Combat and another move is amazing for Staraptor, as it gives great coverage with Brave Bird, along with Final Gambit as a last ditch effort on counters such as Skarmory while gaining momentum, Facade if you are scared of getting burned, or Pursuit as Staraptor, specifically Scarf, forces a lot of switches. Even if these moves aren't the most useful moves on Staraptor, they are better than Double-Edge in every way.

I mean if something's suggested as a main move on the main set that should probably tell you it's perhaps not the best idea to say "don't use it".

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

| Salamence | +----------------------------------------+
| Raw count: 57937 | | Avg. weight: 0.000724113878176 |
+----------------------------------------+
| Moves |
| Dragon Dance 25.526% |

This is actually disgusting.


Don't use this:

Salamence @ Lum Berry
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake


Why it's bad:

While dragon dance salamence sounds like a good set it's really not because it loses to a ton of stuff while having chronic 4MSS. It also has no spammable stab that doesn't give a free turn to threats like mega altaria,azumarill, and clefable. It's also outclassed by dragonite, gyarados, and the mega dragon dancers. Even more niche and uncommon dragon dancers like zygarde and haxorus outclass salamence in this department.

Use one of these as a dragon dancer:

Why they're better:

Mega Charizard X is a better dragon dancer then salamence because it's nearly unresisted stab,combo ability in tough claws, better bulk, and it's immunity to burns. Mega altaria is better because it has a spammable stab move, an amazing typing on both sides, and the ability to blanket check a majority of ou. Dragonite may suffer some problems salamence does but it outclasses it because multiscale gives it a ton of set up opportunities and extreme speed which lets it dodge ice shards, brave birds from talonflame, and thunder waves from thundurus.

OR

Use this if you want to use salamence:

Salamence @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 180 Def / 80 Spe
Timid/Jolly Nature
- Defog
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pump/Earthquake
- Roost

Why it's better:

If you want to use salamence this is the only set it has left that isn't completely outclassed. This is the only niche it has left. The idea behind this set is a bulky defogger that has the ability to beat most hazard setters and deter bisharp from switching in. Defog removes hazards while Fire Blast and Hydro Pump or Earthquake lets salamence threaten most hazard setters bar clefable. Roost is mandatory for longevity. This spread outspeeds jolly diggersby and the rest is put into physical bulk.

 

[Martin]

Please Don't Use This:

Staraptor @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Double-Edge
- Final Gambit / Close Combat
- U-turn

Why it's bad:
In theory, Double-Edge seems like a great move for Staraptor, it's suggested on both smogon sets, is STAB, has 120 power, and gets a Reckless boost. However, it's a total waste of a moveslot, Normal is resisted by everything Flying is except Electric, and hits nothing for super-effective damage. While you may be thinking that you can use it on Electric types, Staraptor has NO business staying in on those.

-1 252+ Atk Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 195-231 (69.3 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Where it can do this back:
252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Staraptor: 458-540 (147.2 - 173.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 229-271 (75.3 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Where it can do this back:
0 SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Staraptor: 236-282 (75.8 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Which will always kill after recoil.

It can, however OHKO Thundurus, but it can be crippled for the entire match if it runs Prankster Thunder Wave.

Instead Use This:

Staraptor @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Close Combat
- Final Gambit / Facade / Pursuit
- U-turn

Why It's Infinitely Better:
Although Facade, Pursuit, and Final Gambit aren't the greatest moves on Staraptor, they do at least have SOME use. Being able to always run Close Combat and another move is amazing for Staraptor, as it gives great coverage with Brave Bird, along with Final Gambit as a last ditch effort on counters such as Skarmory while gaining momentum, Facade if you are scared of getting burned, or Pursuit as Staraptor, specifically Scarf, forces a lot of switches. Even if these moves aren't the most useful moves on Staraptor, they are better than Double-Edge in every way.

The main problems I have with this post are as follows:

• Double Edge destroys souls, and the additional damage really counts v.s. its targets.
  
  • Namely, Double Edge hits Electric-types for over 9000 significantly more damage than Close Combat due to STAB+Reckless, as well as making people think twice before switching their Manectric in on you as, assuming you are, in fact, using the Scarf set (i.e. the one you listed above), it gets outpaced and 2HKOed (which Close Combat cannot do), while band variants flat-out OHKO it after rocks (while Staraptor cannot OHKO with Close Combat and gets outpaced on the following turn, meaning that it is either forced out or becomes death fodder.
• Most of the time, you should be U-Turning v.s. Steel- or Rock-types anyway.
  
• Facade is inconsistent.
• Staraptor really doesn't have the space in its moveset to run Pursuit as it means it has to forgo something important, while being locked into a 40 BP non-STAB attack is not ideal in the slightest and is easily punishable on a Pokémon like Staraptor.
• You shouldn't run CC and Final Gambit on the same set as they are there to achieve literally exactly the same thing (i.e. lure in Steel- and Rock-types for heavy damage).

 

[Karxrida]

I'll be honest, Pursuit actually sounds like a cool option of Staraptor since it can force switches really easily with the threat of Scarf Brave Bird/Double Edge. It's not the best option out there (it's an OO at best), but it sounds viable to me.

 

[Water5tar]

The main problems I have with this post are as follows:

• Double Edge destroys souls, and the additional damage really counts v.s. its targets.
  • Namely, Double Edge hits Electric-types for over 9000 significantly more damage than Close Combat due to STAB+Reckless, as well as making people think twice before switching their Manectric in on you as, assuming you are, in fact, using the Scarf set (i.e. the one you listed above), it gets outpaced and 2HKOed (which Close Combat cannot do), while band variants flat-out OHKO it after rocks (while Staraptor cannot OHKO with Close Combat and gets outpaced on the following turn, meaning that it is either forced out or becomes death fodder.
• Most of the time, you should be U-Turning v.s. Steel- or Rock-types anyway.
  
• Facade is inconsistent.
• Staraptor really doesn't have the space in its moveset to run Pursuit as it means it has to forgo something important, while being locked into a 40 BP non-STAB attack is not ideal in the slightest and is easily punishable on a Pokémon like Staraptor.
• You shouldn't run CC and Final Gambit on the same set as they are there to achieve literally exactly the same thing (i.e. lure in Steel- and Rock-types for heavy damage).

OK, I agree with some of your points, however, Double Edge is only realistically useful against predicted Manectric, Rotom-W, and Thundurus. Close Combat on the other hand reliably deals with most Steel and Rock-types in the tier (think Tyranitar, Excadrill, 2HKO on Ferrothorn, Bisharp, 2HKO Heatran, and chance to OHKO Magnezone. All without recoil. Pursuit, although not fantastic, can be used on weakened mons that might be threatening to your team.

252+ Atk Staraptor Pursuit vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 198-234 (62 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Staraptor Pursuit vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 340-400 (131.2 - 154.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Staraptor Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 180-214 (44.5 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Staraptor Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 274-324 (105.7 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Staraptor Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 180-214 (52.7 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Staraptor Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mega Metagross: 142-168 (47.1 - 55.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Staraptor Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 208-246 (79.3 - 93.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Not fantastic, but a nice option when compared to the very limited things Double Edge hits over Brave Bird.
As for Facade, it acts as a decent safety net so that Staraptor isn't totally useless after being burned.
Lastly, for Final Gambit, I've never been a big fan of it since after recoil from Brave Bird, it becomes significantly less useful, but it's a suggested move that gets used fairly often, so I decided to throw it on there.

 

[p2]

I don't think you understand how huge it is being able to completely break Rotom-W which literally no other birds can do.

 

[Water5tar]

I don't think you understand how huge it is being able to completely break Rotom-W which literally no other birds can do.

I'd say that "completely break" is a bit of an overstatement:
252+ Atk Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 172-204 (56.7 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Besides, is it really worth dedicating a move slot to one mon, when there are things that do it naturally, such as Kyurem-B, Celebi, Serperior, etc?

 

[Karxrida]

Rotom-W has no reliable recovery and is now at the point where Talonflame can easily sweep if Stealth Rock is up.

252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 153-181 (50.4 - 59.7%) -- 86.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 117-138 (38.6 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

If Staraptor is Banded it has a small chance to die after Rocks (high if Adamant). It's totally worth running.

 

[Kurona]

I mean y'know there's a reason it's C+. It's not really that brilliant but beating Electrics is one of the sole reasons to use Staraptor.
Regardless if you really want to dispute a move that's featured on both sets, I really think there's better places to take it up than this. Go to ORAS Metagame discussion or whatever; but this really isn't a discussion that should be here.

 

[pika pal]

OK, I agree with some of your points, however, Double Edge is only realistically useful against predicted Manectric, Rotom-W, and Thundurus. Close Combat on the other hand reliably deals with most Steel and Rock-types in the tier (think Tyranitar, Excadrill, 2HKO on Ferrothorn, Bisharp, 2HKO Heatran, and chance to OHKO Magnezone. All without recoil. Pursuit, although not fantastic, can be used on weakened mons that might be threatening to your team.

252+ Atk Staraptor Pursuit vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 198-234 (62 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Staraptor Pursuit vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 340-400 (131.2 - 154.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Staraptor Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 180-214 (44.5 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Staraptor Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 274-324 (105.7 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Staraptor Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 180-214 (52.7 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Staraptor Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mega Metagross: 142-168 (47.1 - 55.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Staraptor Pursuit vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 208-246 (79.3 - 93.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Not fantastic, but a nice option when compared to the very limited things Double Edge hits over Brave Bird.
As for Facade, it acts as a decent safety net so that Staraptor isn't totally useless after being burned.
Lastly, for Final Gambit, I've never been a big fan of it since after recoil from Brave Bird, it becomes significantly less useful, but it's a suggested move that gets used fairly often, so I decided to throw it on there.

Staraptor's main niche is as a wallbreaker for other Flying Type attackers, so even if Double Edge's only realistic targets are Electric types, that's all you really are aiming at with that moveslot. Brave Bird is murdering most other mons you'd be attacking.

Pursuit Trapping with Staraptor is dangerous in the first place. The Scarf allows you to outspeed, so you're better off going for U-Turn (if you don't threaten the mon) or Brave Bird (if you do), considering even if you trap, Staraptor becomes set-up fodder locked into Pursuit.

Heck, achieving a 2HKO even with things like Intimidate or high Physical investment on prime targets shows Double Edge manages what it's supposed to: break stops to Bird Spam like Manectric so Talonflame can clean up.

 

[Water5tar]

I mean y'know there's a reason it's C+. It's not really that brilliant but beating Electrics is one of the sole reasons to use Staraptor.
Regardless if you really want to dispute a move that's featured on both sets, I really think there's better places to take it up than this. Go to ORAS Metagame discussion or whatever; but this really isn't a discussion that should be here.

Fair enough, it was more so a general gripe I had, and I wasn't too sure where to post it, and this seemed like a good place for it, I'll stop discussing this, thank you for showing me where I should discuss it instead. I apologize for any inconvenience i may have caused.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

| 171 | Magmortar | 0.44241% | 14117 | 0.442% | 10028 | 0.420% |
| 174 | Seismitoad | 0.43289% | 13813 | 0.433% | 11473 | 0.480% |

ummmmmmmmmmm

Don't use this:

Magmortar @ Life Orb
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 64 Atk / 204 SpA / 240 Spe (or any other spread)
Mild / Rash Nature

- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Cross Chop
- Earthquake / Hidden Power Ice / Psychic

Magmortar seems a pretty decent wallbreaker on paper, and honestly I'd say it's better than other shit mentioned in this thread such as Ninjask, Donphan, Darmanitan and M-Audino, but that doesn't mean it should be used in OU. Cross Chop is unable to 2HKO Chansey at full health, and its Fire Blast, while decently powerful, can't compare to the likes of Zard Y's or even Heatran's. Also, most Water-types such as Keldeo and Manaphy can tank a Thunderbolt (some even after Stealth Rock) and OHKO it back. 4MSS is a pain in the ass as well, considering Magmortar has no chance against Lati@s and M-Alt without HP Ice, lack of Earthquake might mean you lose against Heatran, and the lack of Psychic makes you fodder for Mega Venu. Defensively, Magmortar is weak to rocks and cannot really tank any hits, especially on the physical side.

Instead use this:

Charizard @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Blaze ---> Drought
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild / Modest / Timid Nature

- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Focus Blast
- Roost / Dragon Pulse / Flare Blitz

Now we're talking. Zard Y has a much improved Fire Blast due to its 159 Special Attack (compared to Magmortar's 125) and ability Drought, which means it can 2HKO almost anything that doesn't resist it, save for the pink blobs. 100 base speed is much better than 83, since you are able to outspeed positive 80 and 85s even with a neutral nature. This means M-Alt, Dragonite, Breloom, M-Hera, you name it. The sun, combined with its neat special defense, also helps it to survive one or two water-type attacks (even Choice Specs Keldeo's Hydro Pump). Oh and speaking of water-types, Zard Y has SolarBeam to send them packing. Despite having a poor accurcay, Focus Blast can beat Heatran and Tyranitar pretty easily. As for its final slot, Zard Y can hit Lati@s and co. harder with Dragon Pulse, Flare Blitz can 2HKO Chansey in the sun, and Roost means longevity, something Magmortar could only dream of. It does take up a mega slot, true, and it does have a 4x weakness to SR, but it's not like Magmortar wouldn't need hazard control either, and you generally build around the mega, so...

Really, just use Zard Y. You also have other options such as special Victini and Volcarona if you want to reserve the mega slot for something else.

 

[michaeloche]

Okay, this one can apply to a couple different sets; the one I'm listing is just an example.

Don't use this:

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Focus Blast

Why it's bad:
Timid:4/0/0/252/0/252 8.849%
You don't want to put your 4 extra EVs into HP because it gives you 300 HP. While this may not look bad on paper, this HP number is not a good one for Thundurus. For one thing, it's weak to Stealth Rock, and it will lose a proportionately larger amount of health from it due to the way rounding works in this game (hint: all decimals are rounded down, or if you prefer, it's the floor function). This spread can come in on SR one fewer time. Second, with Life Orb deducting 10% of your health on every attack, it will take away 30 HP, as opposed to 29 without it, again due to rounding.

Instead, use this:

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def (or 4 SpD) / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Focus Blast

Why it's better:
299 HP is much more optimal. There's a reason they call them "Life Orb numbers", and this is it. It's also why it's a Stealth Rock number. Of course, if you're going mixed, you should run 4 Atk EVs and a Naive nature.

 

[MANNAT]

Okay, this one can apply to a couple different sets; the one I'm listing is just an example.

Don't use this:

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Focus Blast

Why it's bad:
Timid:4/0/0/252/0/252 8.849%
You don't want to put your 4 extra EVs into HP because it gives you 300 HP. While this may not look bad on paper, this HP number is not a good one for Thundurus. For one thing, it's weak to Stealth Rock, and it will lose a proportionately larger amount of health from it due to the way rounding works in this game (hint: all decimals are rounded down, or if you prefer, it's the floor function). This spread can come in on SR one fewer time. Second, with Life Orb deducting 10% of your health on every attack, it will take away 30 HP, as opposed to 29 without it, again due to rounding.

Instead, use this:

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def (or 4 SpD) / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice
- Focus Blast

Why it's better:
299 HP is much more optimal. There's a reason they call them "Life Orb numbers", and this is it. It's also why it's a Stealth Rock number. Of course, if you're going mixed, you should run 4 Atk EVs and a Naive nature.

doesnt this apply to pretty much every mon weak to stealth rocks?

 

[Blazikarados]

doesnt this apply to pretty much every mon weak to stealth rocks?

Yes, you want an odd number.

 

[PKM_Trainer_Gary]

Guess what I just saw on the suspect ladder?

Don't use this:

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
- Cosmic Power
- Stored Power
- Charge Beam
- whatever

Why it's bad: If you want Clefable to never die, buffing its defenses may sound like a good idea, and Charge Beam helps with the special attack. However, you have to dedicate two moveslots to it, which is not an ideal situation, especially considering Clefable gets Calm Mind. Furthermore, Charge Beam is weak, doesn't provide much in the way of coverage, and doesn't even raise your special attack all the time. Many Steel types, particularly Excadrill, wall this set completely, and if it's SD, can set up on it; Scizor and Rock Polish Metagross can do the same thing. And then there's Stored Power. Yes, after 6 Cosmic Powers, it hits a beefy 260 BP, but it's not STAB, poor coverage, has no special attack boosts, and does absolutely nothing to Dark types. And there's no guarantee you'll even get to +6 anyway.

And please, DON'T forgo Moonblast, like the guy I saw did. I was able to set up on him with Mega Sableye (twice, in fact, first time he switched, second time he forfeited).

Instead, use this:

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD
Calm Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Soft-Boiled
- Flamethrower / other coverage move

Why it's better: If you want to set up with Clefable, Calm Mind is the way to go. With it, you get offense and defense boosts in one move, plus you free up moveslots for coverage and recovery. On the topic of coverage, Flamethrower is the best overall, but some sort of Hidden Power (I suggest Ground or Ghost) can also fit in.

Cosmic Power/Stored Power/Heal Bell/Moonblast isnt so bad, but the CM sets are preferred, as it has no recovery while setting up and SCREAMS BISHARP Setup (Since Crits end you), and mold breakers can go through Unaware

 

[jordanthejq12]

Wait, wasn't Cosmic Power Clefable actually a thing in XY?

 

[Aragorn the King]

Wait, wasn't Cosmic Power Clefable actually a thing in XY?

It was never a good thing, but it did have (and probably still has) substantial low-ladder use.

 

[michaeloche]

It was never a good thing, but it did have (and probably still has) substantial low-ladder use.

Which is why I posted that in the first place.

 

[tungnon]

PLEASE DO NOT USE THIS

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 SpD
Calm Nature
- Tri-Attack
- Recover
- Toxic/Thunder Wave
- Any attacking move

Why it's so awfully bad
I understand that STAB Tri-Attack from Porygon2 deals most damage if compare with other moves. But to be honest, STAB normal type attack from this tank don't do any much if compare to thunderbolt or ice beam because it can't be able to deal super effective since its NORMAL type. You won't expect OHKO-2HKO form with pokemon anyway since it is a tank not a sweeper.

INSTEAD USE THIS

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 SpD
Calm Nature
- Discharge/Thunderbolt
- Recover
- Toxic/Thunder Wave
- Ice Beam

Reason to use this set
Discharge(dat 30% chance to paralysis tho) or thunderbolt(In this case I'm talking about discharge) combine with ice beam form an incredible boltbeam combination. Ground type immune discharge right? Just hit it with f*cking ice beam! Dragon comes and tanks discharge? Let give it a pain with ice beam. In other hand, water pokemon comes in and takes hit from ice beam right? ZAP HIM WITH DISCHARGE! ALso, Discharge allows you to deal neutral damage to steel type which is ice beam struggle to get past. Those 2 moves don't only form effective combination but they also deal massive damage to top threats of OU in ORAS. Discharge zaps Azumarill, Talonflame, Zard-Y, Keldeo, Manaphy, Slowbro, Tornadus-T, Skarmory, Starmie and much more. While Ice beam deal serious damage to Altaria, Garchomp, Gliscor, Hippowdon, Landorus-T (OH GOD I HATE THIS GUY SO MUCH), Lati@, Thundurus and much more.

IF YOU WANT TO USE TRI-ATTACK SO MUCH

Porygon-Z @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
- Agility
- Nasty Plot
- Tri-Attack
- Dark Pulse

For Tri-Attack lovers
Porygon-Z is a lot better in term of attacking if compare to Porygon2. Its tri-attack combine with adaptability and nasty plot boost will hit so hard to pokemons who don't resist it. While Dark Pulse take care ghost types who attempt to come in and block attack from it and it is one of reliable way to neutrally hit steel type.

 

[Martin]

PLEASE DO NOT USE THIS

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 SpD
Calm Nature
- Tri-Attack
- Recover
- Toxic/Thunder Wave
- Any attacking move

Why it's so awfully bad
I understand that STAB Tri-Attack from Porygon2 deals most damage if compare with other moves. But to be honest, STAB normal type attack from this tank don't do any much if compare to thunderbolt or ice beam because it can't be able to deal super effective since its NORMAL type. You won't expect OHKO-2HKO form with pokemon anyway since it is a tank not a sweeper.

INSTEAD USE THIS

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 SpD
Calm Nature
- Discharge/Thunderbolt
- Recover
- Toxic/Thunder Wave
- Ice Beam

Reason to use this set
Discharge(dat 30% chance to paralysis tho) or thunderbolt(In this case I'm talking about discharge) combine with ice beam form an incredible boltbeam combination. Ground type immune discharge right? Just hit it with f*cking ice beam! Dragon comes and tanks discharge? Let give it a pain with ice beam. In other hand, water pokemon comes in and takes hit from ice beam right? ZAP HIM WITH DISCHARGE! ALso, Discharge allows you to deal neutral damage to steel type which is ice beam struggle to get past. Those 2 moves don't only form effective combination but they also deal massive damage to top threats of OU in ORAS. Discharge zaps Azumarill, Talonflame, Zard-Y, Keldeo, Manaphy, Slowbro, Tornadus-T, Skarmory, Starmie and much more. While Ice beam deal serious damage to Altaria, Garchomp, Gliscor, Hippowdon, Landorus-T (OH GOD I HATE THIS GUY SO MUCH), Lati@, Thundurus and much more.

IF YOU WANT TO USE TRI-ATTACK SO MUCH

Porygon-Z @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
- Agility
- Nasty Plot
- Tri-Attack
- Dark Pulse

For Tri-Attack lovers
Porygon-Z is a lot better in term of attacking if compare to Porygon2. Its tri-attack combine with adaptability and nasty plot boost will hit so hard to pokemons who don't resist it. While Dark Pulse take care ghost types who attempt to come in and block attack from it and it is one of reliable way to neutrally hit steel type.

I wouldn't say Tri Attack is a horrible option on P2. It has a number of niches over BoltBeam, such as a harder hit on anything which doesn't take SE damage from BoltBeam and opening up the option for a third status move (e.g. dual status or magic coat), and it is certainly an option on OTR variants as they are more focused on attacking (usually TR+Recover+2 of TA, Bolt or Beam). What attack(s) you run on P2 are very team-specific, so saying that running Tri Attack is a poor option is kinda misleading as, with such a mindset, you are limiting what you can do with the pokemon on certain teams.

 

[michaeloche]

kinda dead thread n_n

Timid:0/0/0/252/32/224 7.696%
Timid:32/0/0/252/0/224 5.489%

Don't use this:

with 224+ Speed

Why it's bad: Roughly 1 in 8 Raikou are running the above speed investment, which was designed to outrun Thundurus. While useful at first glance, there are plenty of things that it misses out on, such that it's now well out of date. And don't even get me started on Rash variants, which only beat base 100s, and Aura Sphere (the only reason you would ever run Rash in the first place) is not that great for what Raikou should be beating.

Instead, use this:

with 252+ Speed

Why it's better: With max Speed, Raikou can outrun Serperior (which can be a massive threat when played properly) and unboosted Scolipede, as well as speed tie with the crowded 115 base Speed tier, which includes such mons as Starmie, Azelf, Mega Houndoom, and Mega Absol, while not really sacrificing much in the way of bulk.

 

[AWILDBIBAREL]

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Fling
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Filler

Don't use this, use this instead:

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Filler

I'm utterly stunned everytime I see fling gliscor.. It's simply said just not good.
Fling is weak as piss, and is a 1-time thing, meaning you can only toxic max. 1 pokémon on the opposing team.

The only argument I could see being used against this is that Gliscor takes less from Knock Offs, but knocking off a Gliscor doesn't give you any benefit anyways, and Gliscor is very physicall bulky so, bad argument.

Toxic Gliscor is way better as it can obviously keep spamming toxic, even vs. Heal Bellers/Aromatherapy users, as it has way more PP.

The point of Fling is actually mostly to get itemless Acrobatics I think. But Toxic is still a lot better.

 

[asdfCookie]

ooops, yeah you're right. still a bad set tho as you said haha :]

Fling is also used to poison mega sableye