Bronzong (Calm Mind+Rest)

[iDunno]

I think it's better not to classify this as a "Sweeping" Bronzong and more of a "More powerful" Bronzong than it's bretherin. Treating it as a "check" to sweepers as opposed to it being an all out sweeper really puts this set in a differently light and makes it more worthwhile to use. Bronzong's stellar defenses are the main selling point of this set. It's not worth only focusing on Bronzong's counters when you could be focusing on what this Bronzong counters.

@Conflict: Jirachi doesn't COMPLETELY outclass this set. Bronzong has some unique niche uses that Jirachi can't boast such as near immunity to the popular EdgeQuake combination and It counters things like DD Dragonite much better than Jirachi.

 

[alex 67]

I'm with Seven Deadly Sins here. Aside from the support issues your coverage is so shitty with your primary option that it doesn't even hit probably the most dominant type in OU; steel types neutrally and then hidden power ground has pathetic power and there are still plenty of other pokes who resist ground+psychic. On top of all that this Bronzong is so weak that without entry hazards or a calm mind Psychic only has a 2.56% chance of OHKO Infernape with a -SpD nature and 0 SpD evs which is one of the frailest pokemon in OU.

 

[iDunno]

I'm with Seven Deadly Sins here. Aside from the support issues your coverage is so shitty with your primary option that it doesn't even hit probably the most dominant type in OU; steel types neutrally and then hidden power ground has pathetic power and there are still plenty of other pokes who resist ground+psychic. On top of all that this Bronzong is so weak that without entry hazards or a calm mind Psychic only has a 2.56% chance of OHKO Infernape with a -SpD nature and 0 SpD evs which is one of the frailest pokemon in OU.

How many SpAtk Evs and boosts did you have when you did that calc?

Btw Cresselia has even less special attack, less than reliable Recovery in Moonlight, and a weakness to U-turn and pursuit, yet it has a CM analysis. Cresselia also cannot outstall Blissey while Bronzong can.

 

[alex 67]

I said "This bronzong" so that means 44 SpA evs which equals 11 points+194=205. Which is your set. I just double checked and I am right. Also to make sure you see it:

On top of all that this Bronzong is so weak that without entry hazards or a calm mind Psychic only has

Cresselia gets a calm mind set because: it has superior bulk and despite being unreliable can utilize recovery which lets it recover without using Rest+Chesto Berry which means it can get more calm mind boosts because it gets to use its recovery move more then once and best of all you get to use leftovers. Oh and if you want to argue about types you can argue that Cresselia isn't weak to fire which means Infernape and Heatran don't get the plessure of roasting you.

 

[iDunno]

I said "This bronzong" so that means 44 SpA evs which equals 11 points+194=205. Which is your set. I just double checked and I am right. Also to make sure you see it:

I am going to test a more specialized set that has less defense EVS and more SpAtk Evs. I'll post with the results.

 

[alex 67]

Alright good luck then. Also as a tip from battler to battler you may want to use logs to support your set. You don't have to as I'm not QC but this will help your argument. If there good and consecutive logs that is.

 

[iDunno]

Ok, I made a new EV spread that makes it so that Bronzong hits harder. I would get some logs, but I'm afraid I don't know how lol... If someone can pm me and tell me that'd be great. Anyway here are some damage calculations for Psychic and HP ground:

DAMAGE CALCULATIONS FOR SPREAD:
208 HP/116 DEF/184 SpAtk Bold Nature
(208/116 ev defenses with bold has good Physical bulk: 184 SpATk evs is the same as 100 SpAtk Evs with Modest nature)

Damage for the move Psychic on potential Stallers/Threats:

Bulky Dnite: 
Damage Per Hit: 237 - 279 / 61.4% - 72.3% (Number of Hits: 1) +3
Damage Per Hit: 189 - 223 / 49.0% - 57.8% (Number of Hits: 1) +2

Infernape
Damage Per Hit: 258 - 306 / 88.1% - 104.4% (Number of Hits: 1)+0 (OHKO after SR)

Breloom
OHKOd no matter what

Heracross
Damage Per Hit: 204 - 240 / 67.8% - 79.7% (Number of Hits: 1) +0  (2HKO)
Damage Per Hit: 306 - 360 / 101.7% - 119.6% (Number of Hits: 1) +1 (always OHKO)

Bulky Dragonite
Damage Per Hit: 195 - 229 / 50.5% - 59.3% (Number of Hits: 1) +2
Damage Per Hit: 243 - 286 / 63.0% - 74.1% (Number of Hits: 1) +3 (More than Roost Heals)

Wishbliss (0 SpDef):
Damage Per Hit: 304 - 358 / 42.6% - 50.1% (Number of Hits: 1) +6
Damage Per Hit: 454 - 535 / 63.6% - 74.9% (Number of Hits: 1) +6/-1 SpDef 
(Blissey cannot stall forever due to SpDef drops from Psychic and Rest)

Offensive Gyarados
Damage Per Hit: 196 - 232 / 59.2% - 70.1% (Number of Hits: 1)+2    (OHKO after SR and Life Orb)
Damage Per Hit: 246 - 289 / 74.3% - 87.3% (Number of Hits: 1)+3   (OHKO after SR)

Sub DD Kingdra
Damage Per Hit: 153 - 181 / 52.6% - 62.2% (Number of Hits: 1)+1   (2HKO w/ SR assuming Lefties)
Damage Per Hit: 153 - 181 / 52.6% - 62.2% (Number of Hits: 1)+3   (Sometimes OHKO)

Mixpert
Damage Per Hit: 204 - 240 / 50.5% - 59.4% (Number of Hits: 1)+2  (2HKO if not roared out)

RestTalk Suicune and Crocune
Damage Per Hit: 174 - 205 / 43.1% - 50.7% (Number of Hits: 1)+2  (Decent chunk before being roared out)

Damage for Hidden Power ground:

Heatran (0hp/4spdef)
Damage Per Hit: 196 - 232 / 60.7% - 71.8% (Number of Hits: 1) +0   (2HKO…)
Damage Per Hit: 292 - 348 / 90.4% - 107.7% (Number of Hits: 1) +1  (always OHKO w/SR)

Jirachi (Wish/Calm mind)
Damage Per Hit: 204 - 242 / 50.5% - 59.9% (Number of Hits: 1)+2    (Doesn't 2HKO if it CMs 2nd time)
Damage Per Hit: 256 - 302 / 63.4% - 74.8% (Number of Hits: 1)+3   (Always 2HKO)

Scizor (Choice Band 248hp)
Damage Per Hit: 102 - 122 / 29.7% - 35.6% (Number of Hits: 1) (ugh...)

Tyranitar (Choice Band 160hp):
Damage Per Hit: 170 - 202 / 44.6% - 53.0% (i put +1 in defense for Tyranitar for Sandstorm) (Number of Hits: 1) +3 (After multiple switching into stealth rock it can 2HKO but it is still a problem)

(I chose HP ground because it hits many steels, heatran, and Tyranitar for SE damage)

 

[Shizzle]

I personally use CM Bronzong, have done so with personal sets for a while, and personally I don't find the need for Chesto Rest, simply because he takes hit like a monster after one or two CMs, and Leftovers recovery I find extremely useful. The EV spread looks good, but for the moveset I like:
Calm Mind
Psychic
Grass Knot
Hidden Power Fighting / Ground

And no its not outclassed by Jirachi at all, this set is similar I suppose, but a much more defensive variant, and the big difference is Bronzong's Immunity to the most common move, Earthquake, which is one of the biggest threats to Jirachi.

Bronzong is almost unkillable after 1 or 2 CMs because there is only one decent physical fire move, Flare Blitz which is not used extensively at all, so even STAB Fire Blasts and other moves don't deal anywhere near enough to scare out Bronzong after a CM.

 

[iDunno]

I personally use CM Bronzong, have done so with personal sets for a while, and personally I don't find the need for Chesto Rest, simply because he takes hit like a monster after one or two CMs, and Leftovers recovery I find extremely useful. The EV spread looks good, but for the moveset I like:
Calm Mind
Psychic
Grass Knot
Hidden Power Fighting / Ground

And no its not outclassed by Jirachi at all, this set is similar I suppose, but a much more defensive variant, and the big difference is Bronzong's Immunity to the most common move, Earthquake, which is one of the biggest threats to Jirachi.

Bronzong is almost unkillable after 1 or 2 CMs because there is only one decent physical fire move, Flare Blitz which is not used extensively at all, so even STAB Fire Blasts and other moves don't deal anywhere near enough to scare out Bronzong after a CM.

Which ev spread looks good? The Defensive one or the Stronger one?
Also, before even posting this I tried a Bronzong Set that had Protect instead of Rest and had leftovers and it did work albeit with sandstorm support because protecting in sandstorm would bring the pokes to KO range as well as add leftovers recovery. I'll try your set though

 

[ΩDonut]

May I suggest Extrasensory over Psychic? It may not give SpDef drops, but surely Extrasensory's amazing PP (48 vs. Psychic's 16) can make the difference in WishBliss stalls.

 

[iDunno]

May I suggest Extrasensory over Psychic? It may not give SpDef drops, but surely Extrasensory's amazing PP (48 vs. Psychic's 16) can make the difference in WishBliss stalls.

Psychic has a 20% chance for a SpDef Drop which makes it more useful IMO

 

[ΩDonut]

I haven't run through all the theorymon, but you might run out of PP to attack anything else with Psychic by the time you're through with Blissey. You'll still have plenty of PP left with Extrasensory, though it'll probably take a crit to take out Blissey.

And it's only a 10% chance for SpDef drop.

 

[Chillarmy]

@ the OP, test both spreads and decide which one benefits this set more. The other can be mentioned later in the analysis, but to prevent things from getting clustered, you're better off deciding on the primary spread now. Though, in my opinion at least, the offensive spread is the way to go, and I'll get some logs for this set up later if needed,

I personally use CM Bronzong, have done so with personal sets for a while, and personally I don't find the need for Chesto Rest, simply because he takes hit like a monster after one or two CMs, and Leftovers recovery I find extremely useful.

The point of Chesto + Rest on any Pokemon is to take a beating, net multiple boosts, restore any damage taken, and stack on more boosts or just start attacking - Bronzong can do this very well. Taking away that would reduce this set to the few CM Bronzong sets that have been rejected before; and I apologize in advance if you weren't suggesting Hidden Power + Leftovers > Chesto + Rest e.e

EDIT: Your calc on Tyranitar is wrong, 160/0 Tyranitar's taking 46.2% - 54.6% from a +1 Grass Knot (not a huge difference, but it's more likely to 2HKO after SR).

 

[cim]

you need extrasensory to beat blissey

you can't possibly win with either move without a drop or crit (crit is much better), and extrasensory has a 96% chance of a CH in 48 turns.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

EDIT: Your calc on Tyranitar is wrong. Sandstorm gives a 1.4x boost, meaning that 160/0 Tyranitar's taking 46.2% - 54.6% from a +1 Grass Knot (not a huge difference, but it's more likely to 2HKO after SR).

Might I ask what manner of crack you're smoking, or possibly what powerful liquor one might need to imbibe in order to come to such a blatantly fallacious statement?

 

[Chillarmy]

Might I ask what manner of crack you're smoking, or possibly what powerful liquor one might need to imbibe in order to come to such a blatantly fallacious statement?

"Deprivation of Sleep" if it's a drink. Regardless, the calc was slightly off and I fixed it.

you need extrasensory to beat blissey

you can't possibly win with either move without a drop or crit (crit is much better), and extrasensory has a 96% chance of a CH in 48 turns.

Hm, my main concern was the drop in power actually, but considering that Bronzong doesn't lose out on OHKOing much running Extrasensory, I'll retract my statement about Extrasensory < Psychic.

 

[alex 67]

I'm surprised you didn't list magnezone as a partner. Psychic and ground is resisted by levitating steels like skarmory or even other bronzong. In fact it might be the best partner because it could also blow the shit out of Blissey with explosin.

 

[iDunno]

@ the OP, test both spreads and decide which one benefits this set more. The other can be mentioned later in the analysis, but to prevent things from getting clustered, you're better off deciding on the primary spread now. Though, in my opinion at least, the offensive spread is the way to go, and I'll get some logs for this set up later if needed,

Using them I found that both spreads have their own merits. The bold spread hits a lot softer, although it finds it easier to set up on Gyarados and Kingdra and CB Tyranitar, while the offensive spread doesn't need as many CMs and can KO many threats a lot faster including Gyarados and Kingdra who don't get OHKOD at +4 in the Bold spread if I'm correct (man those guys are buuuulkyyy).

On another note, I found HP Ground to be ideal for beating Jirachis in CM wars, although for beating Tyranitar faster Hp Fighting also works and also hits Tyranitar harder. HP Electric hits Gyarados for hard damage right off the bat which also helps because it can hit pretty hard. I'm thinking of making another move pairing of Flash Cannon and HP Electric which has good coverage but doesn't hit Kingdra or Swampert. Is that a good idea?

EDIT: Also, using Extrasensory over Psychic is a bad Idea. Bronzong has a hard time dealing with Gyarados as it is without a lower BP move.

 

[ΩDonut]

EDIT: Also, using Extrasensory over Psychic is a bad Idea. Bronzong has a hard time dealing with Gyarados as it is without a lower BP move.

As Chris is me pointed out, "you need Extrasensory to beat Blissey", because you are almost guaranteed to get that CH. Psychic? Not so much. If you don't get that CH or SpDef drop with Psychic against Blissey (which it can negate just by switching out), Bronzong loses.

With Psychic, Bronzong might have a slightly easier time against Gyarados but is still more likely to lose to Blissey. At least with Extrasensory it is likely to defeat both.

 

[Megan_Fox]

extrasensory can also help vs a lot of stuff with pressure as well such as subroost dos. with psychic you have no chance of taking that on.

 

[iDunno]

extrasensory can also help vs a lot of stuff with pressure as well such as subroost dos. with psychic you have no chance of taking that on.

I comepletely forgot about pressure O-O
You have convinced me on extrasensory since only 8 psychics on a Bronzong sounds pretty bad lol. I guess 48 pp is a good enough reason to warrant its use, but I'm still keeping Psychic as another option.

 

[Shizzle]

16 PP on Psychic, 10 +6 PP boosts

 

[iDunno]

I put this Bronzong on a team with little support for it and this is the log of the first game I played with it. Note that throughout the process Bronzong only needed 2 calm minds to do what it did. This log shows that offensive Bronzong doesn't need too much support or too many calm minds to do its job.

Battle between Calentaros and JackintheBK00 started!

Tier: OverUsed
Variation: +11, -20
Rule: Rated
Rule: Sleep Clause
Rule: Freeze Clause
Rule: Evasion Clause
Rule: OHKO Clause
Rule: Species Clause

JackintheBK00 sent out Aerodactyl!
Calentaros sent out Mesprit!
The foe's Aerodactyl is exerting its Pressure!

Start of turn 1
Mesprit used Trick!
Mesprit switched items with the foe's Aerodactyl!
Mesprit obtained one Focus Sash!
The foe's Aerodactyl obtained one Choice Scarf!

The foe's Aerodactyl used Taunt!
Mesprit fell for the taunt!

Start of turn 2
JackintheBK00 called Aerodactyl back!
JackintheBK00 sent out Snorlax!

Mesprit used U-turn!
A critical hit!
The foe's Snorlax lost 34% of its health!
Calentaros called Mesprit back!
Calentaros sent out Tyranitar!

Tyranitar's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Snorlax is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Snorlax restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 3
JackintheBK00 called Snorlax back!
JackintheBK00 sent out Gliscor!

Tyranitar used Stone Edge!
The foe's Gliscor lost 41% of its health!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Gliscor restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 4
Calentaros called Tyranitar back!
Calentaros sent out Bronzong!

JackintheBK00 called Gliscor back!
JackintheBK00 sent out Breloom!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Breloom is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Breloom's Toxic Orb activated!
The foe's Breloom was badly poisoned!

Start of turn 5
The foe's Breloom used Spore!
Bronzong fell asleep!
Bronzong ate its Chesto Berry!
Bronzong woke up!

Bronzong used Psychic!
It's super effective!
The foe's Breloom lost 93% of its health!
The foe's Breloom fainted!

The sandstorm rages!
JackintheBK00 sent out Snorlax!

Start of turn 6
Bronzong used Calm Mind!
Bronzong's Sp. Att. rose!
Bronzong's Sp. Def. rose!

The foe's Snorlax used Rest!
The foe's Snorlax went to sleep and became healthy!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Snorlax is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Snorlax restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 7
JackintheBK00 called Snorlax back!
JackintheBK00 sent out Aerodactyl!

The foe's Aerodactyl is exerting its Pressure!
Bronzong used Calm Mind!
Bronzong's Sp. Att. rose!
Bronzong's Sp. Def. rose!

The sandstorm rages!

Start of turn 8
The foe's Aerodactyl used Taunt!
Bronzong fell for the taunt!

Bronzong used Psychic!
The foe's Aerodactyl lost 59% of its health!

The sandstorm rages!

Start of turn 9
The foe's Aerodactyl used Taunt!
But it failed!

Bronzong used Psychic!
The foe's Aerodactyl lost 40% of its health!
The foe's Aerodactyl fainted!

The sandstorm rages!
JackintheBK00 sent out Starmie!

Start of turn 10
The foe's Starmie used Hydro Pump!
Bronzong lost 105 HP! (32% of its health)

Bronzong used Hidden Power!
The foe's Starmie lost 49% of its health!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Starmie is buffeted by the sandstorm!

Start of turn 11
The foe's Starmie used Hydro Pump!
Bronzong lost 100 HP! (30% of its health)

Bronzong used Hidden Power!
The foe's Starmie lost 24% of its health!
The foe's Starmie fainted!

The sandstorm rages!
JackintheBK00 sent out Snorlax!

Start of turn 12
Bronzong used Psychic!
The foe's Snorlax lost 29% of its health!

The foe's Snorlax is fast asleep!
The foe's Snorlax used Sleep Talk!
The foe's Snorlax used Body Slam!
It's not very effective...
Bronzong lost 36 HP! (11% of its health)

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Snorlax is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Bronzong's taunt ended!
The foe's Snorlax restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 13
Bronzong used Rest!
Bronzong went to sleep and became healthy!

The foe's Snorlax is fast asleep!
The foe's Snorlax used Sleep Talk!
The foe's Snorlax used Crunch!
Bronzong lost 52 HP! (15% of its health)

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Snorlax is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Snorlax restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 14
JackintheBK00 called Snorlax back!
JackintheBK00 sent out Infernape!

Bronzong is fast asleep!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Infernape is buffeted by the sandstorm!

Start of turn 15
The foe's Infernape used Nasty Plot!
The foe's Infernape's Sp. Att. sharply rose!

Bronzong is fast asleep!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Infernape is buffeted by the sandstorm!

Start of turn 16
The foe's Infernape used Flamethrower!
It's super effective!
Bronzong lost 275 HP! (84% of its health)
Bronzong fainted!

The sandstorm rages!
The foe's Infernape is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Calentaros sent out Mesprit!

Start of turn 17
The foe's Infernape used Flamethrower!
Mesprit lost 313 HP! (99% of its health)
Mesprit hung on using its focus sash!

Mesprit used Zen Headbutt!
It's super effective!
A critical hit!
The foe's Infernape lost 61% of its health!
The foe's Infernape fainted!

The sandstorm rages!
Mesprit is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Mesprit fainted!
JackintheBK00 sent out Gliscor!

Calentaros sent out Gyarados!

Gyarados intimidates the foe's Gliscor!
The foe's Gliscor's Attack fell!

Start of turn 18
Gyarados used Dragon Dance!
Gyarados's Attack rose!
Gyarados's Speed rose!

The foe's Gliscor used Toxic!
Gyarados was badly poisoned!

The sandstorm rages!
Gyarados is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Gyarados restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Gyarados is hurt by poison!
The foe's Gliscor restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 19
Gyarados used Waterfall!
It's super effective!
The foe's Gliscor lost 70% of its health!
The foe's Gliscor fainted!

The sandstorm rages!
Gyarados is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Gyarados restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Gyarados is hurt by poison!
JackintheBK00 sent out Snorlax!

Start of turn 20
Gyarados used Waterfall!
The foe's Snorlax lost 50% of its health!

The foe's Snorlax woke up!
The foe's Snorlax used Sleep Talk!
But it failed!

The sandstorm rages!
Gyarados is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The foe's Snorlax is buffeted by the sandstorm!
Gyarados restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Gyarados is hurt by poison!
The foe's Snorlax restored a little HP using its Leftovers!

Start of turn 21
Gyarados used Waterfall!
The foe's Snorlax lost 20% of its health!
The foe's Snorlax fainted![/PHP]Note the main reason why Bronzong was sacrificed was due to human error on my part due to miscounting sleep turns.

 

[Curtains]

that battle is horrible . why would he taunt a already taunted zong and not switch to lax . The breloom bait was decent but he had snorlax?It wasnt effective at all........ it had a nooby gimmick look to it, im not trying to be a prick im just being honest.

 

[Aqueos]

I might test this a bit later after I go on a quick run to get my ou rating out of noob land due to a lack of battles. It has enough going for it it could work. If this has anything unique working for it (which it does in levitate) and it works (to be found out) then it deserves its own set. Its like that hariyama lead set from a while back. The majority of the qc members were pointing out it was outclassed and said they would probably reject it, until jabba came along and completely overruled that. NOT QC by the way I just am interested