Krookodile? Mixed bulk with intimidate, and could run Knock off, Pursuit, earthquake and dragon tail or stone edge. Combines the defensive and offensive Krookodile sets into one. Also Drapion, who can use knock off and pursuit and also inflict toxic with poison fang. He hits like a fly though.
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Item Assault Vest
- Thread starter Magcargo
- Start date
- Status
Krookodile's a good idea, he's got 95 HP compared to scrafty's 65 but only has 70/70 defenses compared to scrafty's 115/115. Krook's 117 attack is a lot better than scrafty's 90 though -- shame he doesn't get drain punch (though isn't low HP more desirable with draining moves anyway?)
I'll give both a shot and see what ends up working better with my team
Scrafty mainly, Conkeldurr generally outclasses it though, Drapion was more of a thing before M-Gengar got the boot, Krookodile could work but lacks recovery and is weak to common special attacks like Scald/Hydro Pump, Ice Beam and Giga Drain/Grass Knot/Energy Ball.
Bisharp has the typing, movepool and stats to pull off an AV set but it lacks recovery and it's generally better off with SD and/or a boosting item (LO/Dread Plate).
Malamar could run AV but it lacks recovery ( Drain Punch from a tutor in the next game could remedy this as Contrary Superpower is pretty great for an AV mon.
Spiritomb has the stats and the typing but can't put a half decent 4 attack set together.
No other dark types have good enough bulk to run a good AV set other than maybe Pangoro who's movepool is barren and AV restricts him from using Parting Shot, his 1 redeeming quality.
The fact that the pivot set is generally better doesn't make Assault Vest Landorus-T any less viable. They're two very different things. As I said earlier, the Assault Vest set functions not only as a special tank, but as a sort of lure for Pokemon that ordinarily blow right past it. Even if the opponent does switch out for fear of a Scarf set (which is expected, as this set does double as a Scarf bluff), Landorus-T has still done its job in preventing a sweep. As far as special tanking roles go, it switches into mixed LO Aegislash easily and avoids the 2HKO from any of its moves after Stealth Rock, which no other Landorus-T set can do. It switches in on offensive Heatran pretty effortlessly (bar HP Ice) and forces it out. In fact, it actually has a small chance to survive a 2HKO from Modest BalloonTran's HP Ice, a really good chance if it's Timid. The strongest of Mega Venusaur can only hope for a 4HKO (3.4% chance), while Earthquake easily nets the 3HKO. Physically defensive sets still lose 1-on-1 since Giga Drain is a 6HKO while Earthquake is at least a 4HKO. Landorus-T shuts down Gengar effortlessly; non-Life Orb sets have only a 8.8% chance to 4HKO with Shadow Ball, while Knock Off destroys them. Espeon (not sure why this is still used as much as it is, but whatever) gets shut down and destroyed. Landorus-T can take 2 of anything non-Specs Goodra can throw at it besides Ice Beam while 2HKOing with Earthquake, and if it can avoid switching directly in, it can even take an Ice Beam in a pinch and still KO. Landorus-T can take anything Life Orb Alakazam can throw at it besides Psyshock and HP Ice while OHKOing with several of its moves. Landorus-T is immune to Thunder Wave, and so with its great Assault Vest-boosted special bulk, it can easily shut down stupid paraflinch Togekiss (which is a big plus for me personally because I hate those things). It can survive 2 hits from mixed Infernape, while physically defensive sets will be 2HKO'd by Fire Blast or HP Ice. In a pinch, Landorus-T can take a Draco Meteor from Specs Latios before hitting back with Knock Off, which OHKOs after Stealth Rock. In fact, if you can keep Stealth Rock on the opponent's side of the field and keep it off of yours, Landorus-T will always win 1-on-1 if its switches directly into Draco Meteor since Latios will fail to 2HKO while Landorus-T OHKOs back. Landorus-T 2HKOs non-physically defensive Clefable with Earthquake while taking even a Life Orb Ice Beam from offensive tank sets. Even though it can't switch in directly, Landorus-T can take anything from a Life Orb Starmie (including Ice Beam) after Stealth Rock and usually OHKO with Knock Off. Mega Gardevoir only has a 9% chance to even 2HKO with Hyper Voice after Stealth Rock, while Landorus-T almost always OHKOs with Earthquake after Stealth Rock. Sheer Force Landorus without HP Ice gets shut down, especially after its Life Orb has been Knocked Off.
So yeah, Landorus-T is perfectly capable of taking special moves and actually beating specially offensive opponents. That initial list I made was merely to show how it does against some of the most dangerous hits it would have to take. LO Thundurus's HP Ice? LO Volcarona's +1 Fire Blast? LO Aegislash's Shadow Ball? Genesect's Ice Beam? Mega Lucario's +2 Flash Cannon? These are all very powerful and dangerous attacks for a Ground/Flying-type Pokemon to take, and it's impressive enough that it can actually tank those. Sure, it can't do it constantly throughout the course of a game, but then again, the pivot set can't tank physical hits forever either. It also still loses to a lot of common physically offensive Pokemon. SD Garchomp still 2HKOs with Outrage and survives anything Landorus-T can throw at it. Mega Charizard X need only toss out a Flare Blitz at first to scout the first Landorus-T switch-in, and the next time it comes it, it can KO after Landorus-T switches in on Dragon Dance and sweep right past it. Landorus-T without Stone Edge doesn't even beat Talonflame 1-on-1, the most common physical attacker in OU. In fact, it's only guaranteed to safely switch into CB Terrakion once, because if it comes in on Stone Edge the first time and forces Terrakion out, it'll be 2HKO'd the next time it tried to switch in. Now, I'm not trying to say that physically defensive Landorus-T is a bad physical tank, but it's not exactly going to completely shut down all of the metagame's best physical attackers.
The pivot set is still better more often than not due to the fact that it has access to Leftovers recovery and Stealth Rock, but it's not like Landorus-T is the only sturdy Stealth Rock user out there. Besides, directly comparing the two sets isn't really right because they both have their advantages and disadvantages, they both have Pokemon they shut down and Pokemon they still outright lose to, and they both play very differently. If you need a physical tank with Stealth Rock, you can go for the pivot set. If you already have Stealth Rock and need something to switch into things like Aegislash, Togekiss, and Gengar with ease, check things like Mega Lucario, Volcarona, Landorus, and Talonflame, provide solid offensive power, steal momentum with U-turn, and be a general nuisance with Knock Off, nothing does it quite like Assault Vest Landorus-T does.
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No recovery does suck for Krookodile, but frankly Scrafty's unboosted low attack stat means he does sort of want wish support to stay alive as well. Besides, AV Krookodile wouldn't really need recovery since he's more offensive than defensive anyway (not to say he isn't bulky).
Mitchhhhhh Krookodile may be weak to common special attacks but he's immune to common ones too, and would appreciate the bulk to take their coverage moves. Not to mention he resists ghost, which is usually special, as well as dark and poison which tend to be either.
If scrafty gets power up punch then maybe, because you could run full HP and defense investments and set him up against something it resists or is super effective against.
And I dunno about krookadile. He plays well defensively Asa fast taunter... Which AV doesn't allow.
It turns out fighting types tend to have the best chances with AV. Besides drain punch, and one of their defenses tend to be naturally decent.
Take Machamp and conkeldurr. They have good physical defense and HP stats, but their special defense is a little lacking, so they're good attacking tanks (conk even gets drain punch)
Gallade is like the poor man's conk but has a much higher special defense meaning more investment can go into defense and HP
The thing with assault vest, unlike other items is that it deceives you into thinking its as easy to slap on a Pokemon as any choice item, because they sort of have the same effect, but really its a lot more niche than choice items, because status moves are actually really friggin necessary, as well as recovery.
Oh another Rhy fan!
A set I concocted awhile back utilizes a few different things to, and with EVs catered to live a +1 Ice Beam from Genesect.
EDIT: Oh that was a long time to wait for an edit.
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i'm a total noob in pokemon, but I was wondering. Would Assault vest Deoxy-S be viable? I'm thinking of running this in Showdown before it gets banned(if it does get banned)
Deoxys-Speed @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Flash Cannon
- Psychic
- Charge Beam(might change it for a different move)
Deoxys-Speed @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Flash Cannon
- Psychic
- Charge Beam(might change it for a different move)
It probably won't imo, but the standard for offensive is Superpower / Fire Punch / Ice Beam / Psycho Boost with a Life Orb iirc, or Taunt / Fire Punch / Spikes / Stealth Rock with Sash to lead. Assault Vest is interesting, but those moves are all horrible, if you truly want to run AV Deo-S, I'd reccomend 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Atk with the moves listed above, just swap Life Orb for AV.
I like it, however genesect getting the ban hammer somewhat negates the effectiveness of your set. Not to say mine is any better though, I just slapped some random EV's.
Not really, as the +1 Ice Beam is used as a benchmark to guage what he should be able to take (although he sorta is my Genesect counter in many ways funny enough XD). Taking them from one of the most common Special attackers in the game is good I think no?
Also, out of curiosity, do the attack EV's do anything special? (Ex: Just enough to 2hko lando with stone edge, etc.)
Here ya go.
Impressive, is that avalanche with a 120 base power or 60?
Clam Wow (Cloyster) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Careful Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Ice Shard
- Rapid Spin
Cloyster is an example of a mon that the Assault vest has gifted in a great way. With this nifty new item, Cloyster can survive attacks it could only dream of previously. Cloyster can also support its team with Rapid Spin.
Defensive Calcs
Offensive Calcs
Note: If Megazard-X has come in on SR once in the match (at around 75%-ish) it will be KO'd by a combination of Rock Blast and Ice Shard.
I recently thought about assault vest cloyster, and that looks awesome, but it does take a hell of a lot of damage. This thing needs wish support like crazy.
Clam Wow (Cloyster) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Careful Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Ice Shard
- Rapid Spin
Cloyster is an example of a mon that the Assault vest has gifted in a great way. With this nifty new item, Cloyster can survive attacks it could only dream of previously. Cloyster can also support its team with Rapid Spin.
Defensive Calcs
Offensive Calcs
Note: If Megazard-X has come in on SR once in the match (at around 75%-ish) it will be KO'd by a combination of Rock Blast and Ice Shard.
Also, with such huge damage like that, It'd have to act as a lure rather than a tank, but still, you did match it against the strongest special attacks nuking OU right now, so I want to try it still.
I'd probably slash Dragon Tail on Rhyperior.
To be honest, it's not that impressive, it needs way too much support to pull off, the only thing that assault vest has going for it is a surprise factor. Plus it's weak to every form of hazard, so if there's stealth rocks around, you're set is pretty much deemed useless, minus the mega pinsir set, but pinsir wouldn't be staying in vs cloyster anyways. Anything that's physically bulky will wall this thing, and euthanize it.
Clam Wow (Cloyster) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Careful Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Ice Shard
- Rapid Spin
Cloyster is an example of a mon that the Assault vest has gifted in a great way. With this nifty new item, Cloyster can survive attacks it could only dream of previously. Cloyster can also support its team with Rapid Spin.
Defensive Calcs
Offensive Calcs
Note: If Megazard-X has come in on SR once in the match (at around 75%-ish) it will be KO'd by a combination of Rock Blast and Ice Shard.
I like how it makes an offensive pokemon more tanky but is awful for actual tanks. It might sound fun to get 1.5x to your already high special defense but you're also giving up protect/sub protection, toxic, trap setting is completely gone, and regeneration is more complicated w/o recover/slackoff and leech seed. Speeking of which, it costs an item slot so no leftovers, berrys or balloon for Heatran. For someone like Conkeldurr who's only lacking feature is special defense, he's perfectly fine giving up a item slot and using drain punch to recover health with his already huge 140 attack. Goodra also has enough attack power to be useful and has 150 special defense. The only thing holding it back is recovery (no rest hydration), an 80 for defense and anyone who knows Play Rough.
Rhy has a slow base speed, meaning its almost guaranteed to be 120.
Avalanche is reduced priority anyway.
Scrafty has the most amazing movepool for AV... I mean Dragon Tail, Knock Off, and Drain Punch-- every utility move every AV mon could dream of! That Special Defensive boost + phazing, item removing, AND STAB healing, with a pretty damn good dual STAB combo. Only thing it's missing from the movepool is PRIORITY! Though with those damn fairies around, that 4th slot probably needs Poison Jab. It even gets Imtimidate! Probably the best AV ability you could get (rivaled by Regenerator). It's like the ultimate AV Poke, equipped with everything an AV poke could want.
Too bad Scrafty's ATK power is just so damn depressing... if only if only... it's SO weak...
Too bad Scrafty's ATK power is just so damn depressing... if only if only... it's SO weak...
It's no Conkeldurr but an invested 90+ base isnt all that bad, it does have great bulk and sustainability and a great movepool.
Easily one of the best AV users in UU, just not quite Conkeldurr level, but hey that's what tiers are for.
Theoretically he could make a good pair with Aegislash who resists Fairy, Flying and Fighting and Scrafty handles Dark and Ghost moves. Very bulky pair, and Intimidate with Kings Shield would be pretty annoying. Only problem is Pinsir and Talonflame have coverage for both so it would require very good prediction. But the greatest benefit is with Stealth Rock that Scrafty can simply Dragon Tail switch ins to rack up passive damage.
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