Nice 500th post in the thread.Okay I did some more sniffing around concerning the As One idea, and the more I look at it the more I'm convinced it will be completely unique from Inheritance. Yes, the act of attaching a movepool and ability to something with better stats does carry over, but it also shares characteristics from Shared Power, Camomons, and Cross Evolution. With every "As One" pairing, you are trying to design an ideal type combo, with two synergizing abilities, using one mon with good stats and another with good movepool. It's quite the feat and possibilities are endless. There is so much potential for sets that haven't been done before in other OMs.
I do still think that with so many components to be combined and synergized, there need to be some limits on what can be carried over. Namely:
To prove my point that there are tons of exciting combinations even with this restricted ruleset, I have compiled a list of possible Steeds and Riders with the typing and ability that they contribute.
- There should be a rule on which pokemon is the Rider and which one is the Steed (final stats are from the Steed, but buffed). My idea was that the one with the higher BST would always be the Steed, following the precedent with Calyrex and the horses, but we would still need a rule for resolving who is the Steed if they have the same BST. I think it is simplest to just not allow them to merge if they share the same BST--you wouldn't see a horse riding another horse, would you? Otherwise we could come up with something random, like the Steed is the one with the lower Pokedex #, but that feels too arbitrary.
- I think the meta will get too complicated if there is too much freedom to choose abilities. If you do get any choice at all, there needs to be a rule on which pokemon (the Steed or the Rider) automatically gives its primary ability and which one gives you a choice. Being able to pick the ability from the Rider is probably more interesting. However this still creates a ton of meta complexity when you're already combining types and movepools a la Cross Evolution and stacking abilities a la Shared Power. There is also no precedent for ability choice from Calyrex + Glastrier/Spectrier. For this reason I think that both pokemon should only ever be able to pass their primary ability. There are a few downsides to this, namely reducing/losing access to certain abilities that are mostly/entirely granted through the secondary/hidden ability slots, such as Drizzle and Drought, but overall I think this simpler ruleset will make a cleaner meta that still has more than enough options.
Steeds with Useful Abilities
These pokemon all have 600 BST, thus would almost always be Steeds
There are several other Steeds that can be well-utilized for typing, movepool, and stats, but have less useful abilities such as Pressure
Psychic, Synchronize (used for movepool more than ability)
Psychic, Victory Star
Psychic, Levitate
/ Dragon, Levitate
Dark, Levitate
Dragon, Clear Body
Dragon, Bulletproof
Dragon, Intimidate
Bug, Download
Fire, Water Absorb
Fire, Flash Fire
Steel, Serene Grace
Steel, Soul Heart
Steel, Clear Body
Ground, Intimidate
Rock, Sand Stream
Electric, Volt Absorb
Dragon, Sap Sipper
Steeds/Riders with Useful Abilities
These pokemon have 580-570 BST, so they can easily be either Riders or Steeds
There are several others that can be utilized for typing, movepool, or stats, but have less useful abilities
Flying, Regenerator
Flying, Prankster
Electric, Prankster
Electric, Volt Absorb
/ Psychic, Levitate
Psychic, Competitive
Fighting, Defiant
Fire, Beast Boost
/ Bug, Beast Boost
Steel, Beast Boost
Grass, Beast Boost
/ Rock, Beast Boost
Electric, Beast Boost
Dark, Beast Boost
Grass, Grassy Surge
Psychic, Psychic Surge
Electric, Electric Surge
Water, Misty Surge
Riders that provide an offensive boost (some of these can be Steeds)
Normal, Adaptability
/ Fighting, Unseen Fist
Poison, Beast Boost
Electric, Punk Rock
Steel, Sheer Force
Fire, Sheer Force
/ Rock, Tough Claws
// Fighting, Guts
Rock, Refrigerate
Dark, Contrary
Bug, Speed Boost
Water, Water Bubble
Water, Water Veil
Fairy, Hustle
Water, Hustle
Steel, No Guard
/ Bug, Compound Eyes
Rock, Strong Jaw
Electric, Strong Jaw
Water, Strong Jaw
Ghost, Steelworker
Dark, Illusion
Dark, Defiant
Electric, Surge Surfer
Normal, Serene Grace
Riders that offer defensive or supportive abilities (some can be Steeds)
Fire, Intimidate
Water, Intimidate
Ground, Intimidate
/ Normal, Intimidate
Fighting, Intimidate
Dark, Fur Coat
/ Normal, Fluffy
Normal, Natural Cure
Grass, Natural Cure
Dragon, Natural Cure
Ghost, Natural Cure
Grass, Iron Barbs
Dragon, Rough Skin
Water, Rough Skin
Bug, Flame Body
/ Fire, Flame Body
/// Electric, Static
Ground, Static
Dark, Prankster
Grass, Prankster
Steel, Prankster
Poison, Corrosion
Electric, Magnet Pull
Riders that provide immunity (some of these can be Steeds)
Electric, Levitate
Ground, Levitate
Ice, Levitate
Steel, Levitate
Ground, Levitate
Bug, Levitate
/ Poison, Levitate
/ Rock, Levitate
Ghost, Levitate
///// Water, Water Absorb
Electric, Dry Skin
Grass, Water Absorb
// Electric, Volt Absorb
Water, Volt Absorb
Electric, Motor Drive
Electric, Lightning Rod
// Fire, Flash Fire
Ghost, Flash Fire
Riders that are primarily added for typing or movepool, but still offer an ability with situational use
Water, Marvel Scale
Water, Clear Body
Poison, Merciless
/ Bug, Sturdy
/ Steel, Sturdy
Rock, Sturdy
Fighting, Sturdy
Ghost, Cursed Body
Ice, Cursed Body
Fire, Cursed Body
Rock, Suction Cups
Water, Suction Cups
Fighting, Iron Fist
Ground, Iron Fist
Water, Sticky Hold
// Water, Oblivious
/ Ice, Oblivious
Grass, Cotton Down
Water, Innards Out
Dark, Shed Skin
Rock, Shed Skin
Dragon, Shed Skin
// Rock, Rock Head
/ Ground, Rock Head
Steel, Rock Head
Dragon, Rock Head
To show the vast potential of these pokemon in action, let's look at a few example combinations for one pokemon:
We all know from Skarmory, Celesteela, and Corvknight what an awesome defensive typing Steel/Flying is, and in this, we can create multiple exciting versions by crossing Tornadus-T--a pokemon with Regenerator in the primary slot--with a Steel pokemon. Let's look at some options using Tornadus-Therian as a Steed:
+ //
Stats: 79/120/100/130/110/141
Typing: Steel/Flying
Ability1: Regenerator
+
Sheer Force + Life Orb
Movepool Options boosted by SF: Flash Cannon/Iron Head, Air Slash/Hurricane, Heat Wave, Earth Power, Play Rough, Rock Slide, Sludge Wave, Additional Options not boosted by SF: U-turn, Heat Crash, Earthquake, Stone Edge, Brick Break/Superpower,
By using Copperajah as a Rider, Torn can deal impressive damage while simultaneously having great longevity from its typing and Regenerator
+
No Guard, Leftovers or Choice Specs
Movepool Options boosted by NG: Hurricane, Steel Beam, Iron Tail, Heat Wave, Focus Blast, Rock Slide, Toxic
Another approach for dealing high damage from a defensive typing. It can choose to err on the defensive side to make use of fully accurate Toxics and confusion chance from reliable Hurricane, or take a wall-breaking approach. It can even use Steel Beam as a nuke that it can largely recover from thanks to Regen.
+
Prankster, Leftovers
Priority Support Options: Spikes, Defog, Substitute, Taunt, Thunder Wave, Toxic, Switcheroo
With Klefki, Torn-T can fully lean into its defensive capabilities to make use of a multitude of priority supporting moves.
Now let's look at a set with Tornadus-Therian as the Rider
Stats: 100/120/120/120/120/120
Typing: Flying/Steel
Ability1: Serene Grace
Ability2: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock
- Wish
- U-turn
I made a set this time to demonstrate a specific role-- with Torn-T riding on Jirachi, it can pass large Wishes to its teammates while healing itself due to Regenerator, while also having the potential to be obnoxious through Serene Grace Iron Head.
Finally, there are also some Pokemon that may present programming problems in As One. Some rules or restrictions may be needed for these.
Normal, Trace
Steel, Stance Change
Ghost, Mummy
Ground, Wandering Spirit
Ghost, Disguise
Flying, Gulp Missile
Electric, Hunger Switch
Ice, Ice Face
EDIT: This is fairly minor, but if this OM gets approved, a decision would also need to be made on how the As One pairing is displayed on Showdown. I think that if showdown can only show the image of one pokemon, it would actually be the Rider that gets displayed, since the two official pairings are both referred to as forms of Calyrex, rather than forms of the Steed, even though the stats are based on Glastrier/Spectrier.
Anyways, from what I’m seeing, this just seems like Frantic Fusions, but without the stat averaging.
And an Elephant riding a Bird that is less than 1/2th its height and less than 1/10th its weight.
I think it would be interesting if Height and Weight played a factor in compatible riders.
In game, the heights and weights of these 3 and Calyrex’s forms are
Calyrex: Height: 1.1 m | Weight: 7.7 kg
Glastier: Height: 2.2 m | Weight: 800 kg
Spectrier: Height: 2 m | Weight: 44.5 kg
Calyrex-Ice: Height: 2.4 m | Weight: 809.1 kg
Calyrex-Shadow: Height: 2.4 m | Weight: 53.6 kg
Here, Calyrex is x0.55 the height of Spectrier, and weighs x0.173~ as Spectrier.
I think an interesting restriction would be making it so the Rider must me 60% or less than the height of the Steed, and also be 50% of less the weight of the Steed.
Height is, to my knowledge, a complete non-factor in Competitive Play, so it would be nice for a Metagame where Height matters.