UU Analyses Discussion Thread

[Eternal]

I would like to bring up an issue with this analysis: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3452326

The problem is the EVs this guy has decided to give Weezing SpDef EVs and that it has already reached the GP mark. He has given Weezing 160 SpDef EVs (sounds really random) without giving a valid description as to why. This was his explanation: "The EVs with this set are to hit the extra point in Defense, then cover Weezing's lower Special Defense to allow it to withstand weak special attacks."

Now if we look at the UU tier, we can easily observe the role of Weezing in it. Weezing is a great counter to the following common UU Pokemon: Donphan, Hitmontop, Heracross, physical attacker Arcanine, Rhyperior, Flygon, Mamoswine, physical attacker Cobalion, physical attacker DD Kingdra, Bisharp, Escavalier, Weavile, Ambipom, and the list goes on.

Lets compare the damages between the EVs he invested on Weezing over a max HP and Def Weezing.

A poisoned 252 Atk Choice Band Guts Heracross Close Combat vs 252 HP/96 Def Weezing: 50.3% - 59.28%
A poisoned 252 Atk Choice Band Guts Heracross Close Combat vs 252 HP/96 Def Weezing: 44.61% - 52.69%
- A scenario from a 2HKO to a 3HKO after SR damage.

252 Atk Flygon Outrage vs 252 HP/96 Def Weezing: 38.62% - 45.81% (3 hits to KO with Leftovers)
252 Atk Flygon Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Weezing: 34.13% - 40.42% (3-4 hits to KO with Leftovers)
- Changes the scenario from a 3HKO to a possible 4HKO

252 +1 Atk Kingdra Outrage vs 252 HP/96 Def Weezing: 55.69% - 65.87% (2 hits to KO with Leftovers)
252 +1 Atk Kingdra Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Weezing: 49.4% - 58.38% (2-3 hits to KO with Leftovers)
- Changes the scenario from a 2HKO to a possible 3HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Escavalier Iron Head vs 252 HP/96 Def Weezing: 47.6% - 55.99% (2-3 hits to KO with Leftovers)
252 Atk Choice Band Escavalier Iron Head vs 252 HP/252 Def Weezing: 42.22% - 49.7% (3 hits to KO with Leftovers)
- Changes the scenario from a possible 2HKO to a 3HKO

Now what about the random 160 SpDef he has invested? What are those good for? Lets see...

0 SpAtk Milotic Scald vs 252 HP/160 SpDef Weezing: 28.14% - 33.53% (4-5 hits to KO with Leftovers)
- Takes Scald better from Milotic, but what's it going to do to Milotic?

252 SpAtk Life Orb Nidoking Ice Beam vs 252 HP/160 SpDef Weezing: 47.31% - 55.39% (2-3 hits to KO with Leftovers)
- Gets a 3HKO opportunity from Nidoking, but what's it going to do to Nidoking?

Ugh... I really can't think of any reasons to give Weezing SpDef.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Agreed, and I've crossposted this in the Weezing thread with a call to either explain or change the EVs.

 

[blarajan]

I would like to advocate for the removal of the calm mind set in the jynx analysis. What's the damn point? Alakazam exists, who is faster, stronger, more physically bulky (LOL), and has better typing that doesn't make him stealth rock weak. He can also make free turns with sub/disable that jynx does with lovely kiss. Seriously, it outclasses.

 

[JockeMS]

I would like to advocate for the removal of the calm mind set in the jynx analysis. What's the damn point? Alakazam exists, who is faster, stronger, more physically bulky (LOL), and has better typing that doesn't make him stealth rock weak. He can also make free turns with sub/disable that jynx does with lovely kiss. Seriously, it outclasses.

I have just one thing to say to you:

It works! Have you seen Jynx's Special Defense?

 

[blarajan]

I have just one thing to say to you:

It works! Have you seen Jynx's Special Defense?

Just because it works doesn't mean it's not ouclassed. Sub/disable alakazam can put a counter out of commission, just like jynx. It's faster, stronger, and has better typing.

 

[Oglemi]

We don't reject sets solely because they're outclassed. We only reject sets/Pokemon if there is literally absolutely no reason to use the inferior Pokemon over the better one, or if the niche they hold is just not good enough for the metagame. If it's come across that we reject just because something is outclassed, I'm sorry for the confusion.

Jynx's Calm Mind set is sufficiently different as to be not wholly outclassed by Alakazam. Therefore it'll stay on the analysis.

 

[blarajan]

I understand. Sorry for bringing this up!

 

[Moo]

Small nitpick:
I think Celebi needs HP Rock as its secondary attack on the Tinkerbell set. It provides much better coverage, because it hits Fire-, and Flying-type Pokemon, and while it can be argued that those Pokemon are hit better with Psychic /Earth Power, Tinkerbell generally won't be running any more than 2 moves, and needs the better coverage that Hidden Power Rock provides.

 

[SGV]

On Mew's baton pass set, I feel like it needs some EVs in speed to outspeed trickscarfers after a rock polish.

 

[ChaoticaMortis]

Ok, so I did some calcs, and if I'm right, Sheer Force Life Orb Tauros hits harder with Bulldoze than EQ. Considering Bulldoze has more pp and 101.4Bp, it needs to have Bulldoze instead. I doubt it's going to make a supreme difference, but it's for the sake of efficiency. It needs a slash on EQ on the main set for when the user decides to use sheer force instead of intimidate.
Also, iirc, Stone Edge is boosted by sheer force, which would make it's Bp around 169. That's quite a bit higher than Rock Slide, although the accuracy drop might be a problem.

Also, I wasn't sure if I was supposed to put this here or on the analysis itself, so I posted on both. If one's in the wrong place I'll delete it.

 

[breh]

@SGV

I think that 44 Speed (ironically, enough to outspeed max speed mew, probably the fastest trickscarfer you'll commmonly see bar lolalakazam) is enough to mention in AC of the set or OO.

@Chaotica: You are wrong. Bulldoze hits for 78 BP, EQ hits for 100. Earthquake does not magically stop working with Life Orb because it has no side effect, and the lack of recoil is a stupid reason to use it instead.

EDIT2: Chou you are wrong. goddamnt it why is sheer force so hard for people to get? yes, bulldoze does get a boost. it has a side effect with a chance to occur: 100%. You are correct about stone edge, however.

Also, I apologize if I sound snappy to anybody.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Bulldoze does NOT get a Sheer Force boost... >3> So this discussion is really dumb. Even if it did, it would be weaker than earthquake.

Stone Edge doesn't get one either.

Before you try posting in here, try to get your facts straight at least.

 

[ChaoticaMortis]

My bad, stupid mistake. x]
Thanks for the quick response.

 

[SGV]

@SGV

I think that 44 Speed (ironically, enough to outspeed max speed mew, probably the fastest trickscarfer you'll commmonly see bar lolalakazam) is enough to mention in AC of the set or OO.

Mismagius is actually the only trickscarfer I've seen so far in my experience, which needs 76 EVs to outspeed but you could go with more if you're paranoid about Azelf or Froslass.

 

[Snunch]

No to HP Rock. Neutral Psychic is stronger than SE HP Rock, so unless you really need to hit Houndoom and Victini, Psychic is always the superior choice. Those two pokemon are crippled by Thunder Wave anyway, so I don't see a need for HP Rock.

Mew already outspeeds Rotom-A at +2, the fastest common trickscarfer. Speed should stay where it is.

 

[Moo]

Druddigon's analysis has Rough Skin as its ability.......................................................................................

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ps it gets Sheer Force

 

[jc104]

Druddigon gets almost nothing that benefits from sheer force. Crunch and Fire Fang are the only relevant moves it gets. So basically you are boosting Fire Fang by 30% by adding the ability, and removing its ability to flinch or burn. When it gets EQ Fire Fang is almost pointless anyway.

edit: you don't recieve LO recoil only when using those rather poor moves. Anyway, I might rather use CB.

 

[Moo]

You're forgetting that Sheer Force removes Life Orb recoil too

and his other ability is rough skin :\

 

[SJCrew]

Life Orb really is a useless item for his physical attacker set. He's slow, his STAB locks him in, he misses a lot of KOs without Choice Band, and he can be stalled out very easily if the weather isn't clear. It's much more reasonable to expect to get free damage from the contact moves he's bound to switch in on, like Seismic Toss from Chansey, or V-create/U-turn from Victini.

 

[Lemonade]

Since it looks like I didn't get any attention from posting in the thread,
Kabutops

Right. I'm looking at the defensive set, and the EVs are odd. I think 252 HP / 68 Atk / 164 Def Impish is better. First of all, it still ensures Stone Edge OHKOs physically attacking Victini and Arcanine (non-Intimidate) after Stealth Rock. Before, you couldn't OHKO without SR anyway, so the extra damage is wasted IMO.

Secondly, the defense lets Kabutops survive LO Fusion Bolt from Victini better (59.25 - 69.75%) and LO CC from Arcanine (75.3 - 88.88%, can no longer be OHKO'd, likely to survive after SR damage), two Pokemon that Kabutops checks.

Unless I'm missing something huge, I think that above spread should be the new one.

 

[Oglemi]

that sounds good to me

 

[NatGeo]

IMO Dragon Tail deserves a slash or AC mention on Mew's stallbreaker set. it's not even mentioned in OO.

Dragon Tail allows you to phaze through any Taunt you might have had, allowing you to rack up more entry hazard damage and easing Mew and its partners' jobs a ton. It also does a decent amount of damage uninvested to some physically frail Pokemon (i.e. Froslass, who could Taunt you and you do between 1/4 - 1/3 with Dragon Tail iirc).

So yeah, AC mention at the least.

 

[Rakan]

Ok, so what's up with Rotom's Choice set? Right now, it looks like this:

[SET]
name: Choice
move1: Trick
move2: Volt Switch / Thunderbolt
move3: Shadow Ball
move4: Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Grass
item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

I don't understand the Hidden Power Grass slash. What exactly does it hit harder than Thunderbolt / Volt Switch other than Quagsire, Gastrodon, and Rhyperior? I propose getting rid of the HP Grass slash and replacing it with Will-O-Wisp. HP Grass should go in the AC at best. Also, Trick already cripples Gastrodon and Quagsire enough, not really worth a slash for HP Grass just for the aforementioned threats.

 

[Paradoxus]

With the new releases of DW Abilities, I think that Dry Skin Jynx should be added to the Checks and Counters sections of Slowbro, Milotic, and Suicune, as the moves they run most of the time (Ice Beam and a Water move) are shut down, plus, when Jynx uses Taunt they get completely shut down, when they switch out, you can use from the team preview if they have a defensive check or an offensive counter, and use Lovely Kiss or Nasty Plot accordingly.

 

[TheMagicStik]

Might sound a little crazy but Ambipom can effectively run a special set with Nasty Plot, It has a very good special move pool coupled with technician
[Set]
Name:Special Sweeper
move 1: Nasty plot
move 2: Swift
move 3: HP Fighting/ Baton Pass/ Water Pulse
move 4: Shadowball
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Technician
Nature: Modest/ Timid
evs: 252 spatk/ 4 def/ 252 spe

The Primary move for slot 3 would be HP fighting @ 59 damage for the technician boost but Water pulse hits Rhyperior for 4x super effective and hits steels for neutral and has chance for confusion, and baton pass is just so you dont waste a nasty plot if something you cant handle comes in.
It gets alot of KO's on pokemon that dont expect this and at least deserves an OO mention.