MANNAT
https://spo.ink/aq7
SM OU Playstyle Analysis
OP by LL
Approved by Gary
Inspired by previous version ran by Stan Soojung
goat banner by Cryoam
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Last edited:
maybe fix that sentence too.LL said:This thread is meant to both be a resource in which newer players to better grasp building these playstyles.
ChanseyWriting upguide to getting autowins in OSTstall guide later today with help from some fellow stall lords
Minor nitpick, Hazard setter should be added to the checklist. Possibly trappers as well but thats a bit on and off. Also an importable of the sample team or at least A sample team would be nice.
Huge thanks to AnnaKartanna for helping me write this
Introduction
If you looked at the beautiful image 2 inches above this block of text, you probably already know that this guide is about one of the most hated and dreaded playstyles in the game. You can easily tell when you encounter a team like this, as you will be facing 6 fat mons at team preview. The principal of this archetype is to outlast your opponent’s team until they eventually die from a combination of passive damage and weak hits from your own Pokemon. This is done through consistent and reliable ways of running down opposing HP, usually with entry hazards or status. Stall has usually had a “most effective” team that is standard, but ever since dugtrio’s ban, stall has been a lot less reliable. There has not been a specific team or build that is known to be “most effective”, so people will have to create their own team compositions. This can prove difficult, as being able to wall the entire tierwith only 6 pokemon can be hard. Hopefully, after reading this guide, you will have a better understanding stall as a playstyle overall.
When starting to build, there are a few key things to keep in mind while selecting your pokemon before anything else. First of all, the vast majority of your pokemon have to all have some form of reliable recovery. The only exceptions would be trappers (like Tyranitar, Alolan-Muk, Weavile, etc), and more offensive oriented pokemon (like Heatran, Tapu Bulu, etc). If you look at any stall team, pretty much every member will have wish, recover (or any of its equivalents), and/or Regenerator. The reason for this should be obvious, and that is that you want to be able to last as long as possible, and pokemon without reliable recovery are easily chipped down. By the end of the build, the team should cover as many of the tier's most threatening offensive Pokemon as it can, while ensuring that it isn't weak to certain styles. Some of the Pokemon from the top stall mons section of this guide should provide a solid starting point for your build or support to a central concept of a unique stall Pokemon that you want to use and building off from there can work out. While the stall Pokemon that I included as top stall Pokemon are by no means mandatory apart from Chansey on stall, they're very solid overall and can certainly help you out. After having your central core built out along with some top mons to support it, then it's best to use complimentary stall mons that fit your team in order to ensure that you have the most optimal build possible. I haven't included a section on other complimentary stall mons because there's an insane amount of things that I could include there and it's best to explore and find out what works best on your team in paricular. One thing that I want to place emphasis on more than anything else because it's an incredibly common mistake that people make when teambuilding with stall especially is that you need to ensure that your team isn't stretched too thin, more specifically using one mon to check 10 different things that are commonly paired together just for the sake of role compression generally tends to cause stall teams to become largely ineffective and stall teams that can fall back on multiple pivots to check threatening Pokemon are usually more effective in the long run. Stall is intended to be a matchup pick, so don't try to beat everything when you can't, trying to fit a round peg into a small hole is one of the worst things you can do to yourself as a teambuilder. Lastly, don't be afraid to innovate when using stall teams! Straying from the standards for using techs that people aren't used to seeing on stall teams can catch your opponent off guard and end up winning games for you due to being able to surprisingly beat a threatening opposing Pokemon.
Sample Team
Stall Team Checklist (Most of these are strong recommendations rather than requirements for all stall teams)Snatch the team from this game because it's been proven to work in a high level tournament game and I'd rather provide you guys with a proven team rather than something I've made myself.
Top Stall Pokemon
- At least 2 Pokemon with some form of hazard control
- Chansey
- Heal Bell/Aromatherapy user
- Fallback for setup sweepers (Unaware / Ditto)
- Lele answer
- Koko answer
- Heatran answer
- Kartana answer
- Zygarde answer
Well this concludes my guide to building stall teams! I hope you guys found this informative and got inspired to go out and build a stall team of your own. Thanks for reading and have a nice day n_n
Chansey is the one Pokemon that stall teams cannot function without. Its versatility to function as either a cleric, rocker, wishpasser, or lure for physical attackers, being able to be tailored to whatever the team needs is incredibly useful for stall teams and it generally takes pressure off of teammates to check some of the most threatening offensive Pokemon in the tier. Some of the most notable example include: Tapu Koko, Magearna, and Ash Greninja. There's not much else to say other than this thing checks a fuckton of different Pokemon and can be incredibly frustrating for opposing teams to deal with.
Zapdos is a fantastic Pokemon on stall teams overall and what I think is the second best mon on stall nowadays due to its ability to remove entry hazards, check top offensive threats that usually tear apart stall teams otherwise, as well as respectable offensive presence to pressure opposing teams. While we're on that point, pressure is a fantastic ability for stall teams because it allows Zapdos to rapidly deplete the PP of opposing teams vs mons like Choice Band Tyranitar and Heatran in particular because they rely on low PP moves to function. This thing is also very unique in that it can check mons that would otherwise be very threatening to stall teams like SD Kartana (needs to be physdef and requires that rocks be off), Life Orb Tornadus-T, and SD Scizor (non quag teams).
With its newfound access to Defog in USUM, Gliscor quickly became a fantastic member of stall teams, being able to check the previously annoying Heatran while simultaneously keeping hazards off the field for its teammates. Gliscor's access to Poison Heal allows it to be a lot less pressured by passive damage, even functioning as a status absorber, and opposing Pokemon in general compared to most other stall mons, making it a very effective Defogger. Additionally, Gliscor can soft check the widely feared Mega Mawile due to its ability to switch into Play Rough and still live a Sucker Punch afterwards while also being able to threaten it out with Earthquake. Gliscor doesn't provide the insanely wide threat coverage of Chansey or the PP draining power of Zapdos, but its combination of unique traits makes it a fantastic addition to most stall teams.
I'm grouping all three of these mons together because setup sweepers have always been a powerful way of breaking through bulkier teams, dating back to Pokemon such as SD Lucario in DPP. Unaware as well as Ditto both function as a way to beat these powerful setup sweepers that would otherwise run a train on stall teams, with Clefable checking mons like Manaphy (albeit poorly), SD Kartana without Smart Strike (s/o sedertz), and CM Reuniclus. Meanwhile, Quagsire can check mons like SD Mega Scizor, SD Landorus-T (after Z-move is used), and Mega Charizard X. Ditto can obviously check any setup sweeper as long as they don't wall themselves, but it's more niche than Quagsire and Clefable for obvious reasons.
Mega Sableye is probably the best mega on stall teams and while people often ditch it for stuff like Mega Scizor or just regular Pokemon that better fit their stall teams, its fantastic and what it does for stall teams can't be replicated by anything else. Stall teams have traditionally been broken down by Taunt users, entry hazard stacking, and status spreaders in conjunction with Pokemon that force many switches to wear away at the walls until they're in the range of the team's offensive breakers. Mega Sableye is insanely valuable to stall teams because it stop all these methods of stallbreaking dead in their tracks and can give its user a huge advantage in both the hazard game and overall be a nuisance for enemy teams. Aside from jamming up traditional methods of stallbreaking, Mega Sableye also shuts down archetypes that are insane threats to stall teams otherwise like Mega Medicham Spikes stacking offense. Overall, Mega Sableye is incredibly useful for stall teams and can straight up win many games at team preview.
There's no hasards mendatory in stall, you will really often prefer to play without them on both field rather than with them on both, and when your opponent can't setup hasards anymore you won anyway.Minor nitpick, Hazard setter should be added to the checklist. Possibly trappers as well but thats a bit on and off. Also an importable of the sample team or at least A sample team would be nice.
Zokuru covered the hazards point pretty well, but trappers are far from required or even commonly used on stall, seeing as neither of the stall teams used so far in SPL have had one. I'm afraid that my response to this request is gonna have to be a no.Minor nitpick, Hazard setter should be added to the checklist. Possibly trappers as well but thats a bit on and off. Also an importable of the sample team or at least A sample team would be nice.
LL put heatran answer on the checklist right now wtf is this?
also someone needs to remake the 10 more minutes mom image with like pex and tangrotwth and other wack stall mons like bulu, magearna, buzzwole, avalugg, celesteela n trappers (which is only ttar and weavile.)
I still hold my case that you should provide multiple sample teams
On the subject of trappers there's like 1 good 1 (weav) and 1 bad 1 (tar) and 2 banned ones. (duggy and goth) Weavile is great imo since it traps a ton of threats like subCM blace, cm latias, cm reuni, lele and hoopa.
Why is there a qwilfish and not omastar, seismitoad, or even kabutops? Qwilfish is a meme and its kind of getting a bit annoying how obsessed you are with it. I suggest that you replace this with a more commonly used rain abuser instead of trying to promote your "movement" as you call it. Also nowhere in the threat list do you mention mega Alakazam, Rotom-W, Tapu Fini, or Mega Venusaur. Also I would add Kyurem-Black and TORNADUS THERIAN FORME (why is that not there smh) to the misc sweepers part and Mega-Gyarados to the water abusers part.
Shoutouts to The Hunters Prowl for the epic banner
Sorry this took so long guys, but I've finally gotten to writing this after Vertex bailed on me to pursue his rap career. Rain is a playstyle that everyone in the competitive community is familiar with and one that's pretty polarizing. Some people believe that rain is a fantastic playstyle and one that can bust through the vast majority of teams while others believe that it's inconsistent and a matchup pick at best. Regardless of which end of the spectrum you fall under, I believe that you might be able to pick up a thing or two from this guide for rain teams overall. Without further delay, here's my rain guide!
Sample TeamThe Setter:Pelipper @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 32 Def / 228 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 6 Spe
- Defog
- Roost
- Scald
- U-turn
Tapu Koko @ Tapunium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Nature's Madness
- Taunt
- U-turn
Hawlucha @ Electric Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 156 HP / 224 Atk / 4 Def / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Swords Dance
- High Jump Kick
- Acrobatics
Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Stealth Rock
Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
Ferrothorn @ Chople Berry
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Knock Off
- SpikesMiscellaneous Defensive Pivots
Pelipper is the only automatic rain setter that rain teams tend to run in the tier, with some occasional rain sweepers like Swampert running Rain Dance for late game situations, but I'm going to be focusing on Pelipper here since it's the main setter. Pelipper makes a fantastic setter for rain teams because it's an effective defensive pivot, with a slow U-turn that allows you to pivot into your rain sweepers without them having to take damage first, Roost to stay healthy throughout the match, and Defog to deal with entry hazard control for teams.Water-type Abusers
Ferrothorn is the most standard pivot on rain teams besides Pelipper due to it being able to successfully stack up entry hazards against opposing teams and pivoting into Electric-types and Grass-types that threaten the main components of rain teams. Additionally, Ferrothorn pressures opposing Ferrothorns by spamming Knock Off vs them and wearing them down, which is huge for many of the main rain abusers. Overall, Ferrothorn is probably the best pivot outside of Pelipper on rain teams and provides a ton of utility overall.
While Ferrothorn is the main defensive pivot that most rain teams use, Assault Vest Magearna can also be used to great effect on rain teams due to its incredibly high specially defensive bulk coupled with its fantastic typing allowing it to switch into basically every special attacking threat that annoys rain teams while doing a much better job than Ferrhothorn at maintaining offensive momentum. However, Magearna brings much less overall utility to the table and can't switch into Tapu Koko as well, so it's usually a worse option on rain teams than Ferrothorn.Complimentary Offensive Threats
Mega Swampert is a borderline mandatory rain abuser simply because of the perfect combination of defensive and offensive utility that it provides rain teams. Foremost, it provides an electric immunity for rain teams, stopping Choice Specs Tapu Koko from spamming Volt Switch and threatening to completely bust through rain teams. Additionally, Mega Swampert pressures and dispatches Toxapex with STAB Earthquake and is an excellent choice vs bulkier team in general due to its unique combination of bulk and power that's unmatched on rain teams. Obviously, there are a couple other mons that can take up the mega slot like SD U-turn Mega Scizor that can make good additions to rain teams, but Mega Swampert's potential contributions to rain teams are almost always too good to ignore.
Ash Greninja is another excellent edition to rain teams due to its insane power from the special attacking end in conjunction with its ability to free up a moveslot on Ferrothorn with Spikes. Additionally, Water Shuriken can be extremely useful in matchup vs problematic anti-rain Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Kartana and Mega Alakazam and is a great move for cleaning up weakened teams late game. Aside from setting up hazards and being able to nuke teams with its useful Water-type moves, Ash Greninja can also break through defensive teams due to Dark Pulse pretty much being unresisted by Water-type resists on defensive teams bar Tapu Bulu in conjunction with the hazard pressure it can provide. Ash Greninja obviously can't outspeed basically the entire unboosted metagame with Swift Swim, but its unique features and abilities as a breaker more than justifies its placement on rain teams.
Kingdra is another Swift Swim user that can both compliment Mega Swampert offensively and threaten offensive teams insanely. Kingdra's main merits over Ash Greninja is its significantly higher speed tier under rain, which allows it to pose much more of a threat vs offensive teams as well as its fantastic secondary STAB in Draco Meteor that allows it to completely nuke a lot of common threats to rain teams. Finally, Kingdra can run some more niche options such as HP Electric and Toxic to lure threats to rain teams, but it still usually ends up being less effective than Ash Greninja in the long run due to being significantly less powerful and not providing hazard support to rain teams.
Finally, on the more niche end of things, we have Qwilfish, who is actually a very underrated pick for rain teams. Qwilfish has a myriad of unique features that allow it to be an effective member of rain teams such as absorbing Toxic Spikes, being able to dispatch annoying Grass-types, and wallbreaking vs teams that have mons that are normally very hard for rain teams to deal with, and being an insanely threatening late game cleaner with Swords Dance + Life Orb boosted Liquidation in rain. However, Qwilfish is still reasonably niche and won't be used on the majority of rain teams.Threats to Rain
Tapu Koko is an excellent edition to rain teams due to its ability to pressure bulky Water-types like Toxapex and Mantine that normally put a stop to opposing rain abusers like Ash Greninja and Mega Swampert respectively. Additionally, Tapu Koko can use Tapuinium Z in conjunction with Natures Madness to lure in and heavily cripple Ferrothorn in particular so that it can't pivot into Kingdra and Swampert anymore and Tapu Koko also benefits from rain by having a 100% accurate Thunder to abuse vs teams without a solid Electric-type immunity.
Hawlucha is another great anti-offense Pokemon that can be used on rain teams, in conjunction with either Tapu Koko or Tapu Lele due to its ability to sweep through teams with Swords Dance in conjunction with its deadly dual STAB combination. Aside from being able to set up and sweep offensive teams along with some ill prepared defensive teams, Hawlucha can dispatch annoying Grass-types that normally wall the majority of rain teams and provide a key revenge killer for significant threats like Volcarona and Mega Gyarados.
Additionally, Swords Dance Kartana can be used on rain teams in order to provide an offensive breaker that can succeed vs opposing balance teams with its insane attack stat in conjunction with Beast Boost. Obviously Kartana is very frail and thus requires a second Steel-type on the team for pivoting purposes, but it's a very threatening breaker and can successfully take down teams that are oftentimes hellishly difficult matchups for rain teams. Kartana can also run a Choice Scarf set in order to have a better matchup vs the Psychic Spam teams that traditionally trouble rain teams while simultaneously taking pressure off of Pelipper to Defog away hazards.
Tapu Lele is another offensive threat that can be used on rain teams for wallbreaking purposes, as it has a myriad of potential offensive threats that can be difficult to discern from team preview. Similarly to Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele can use a Fightinium Z offensive set to lure in Ferrothorn for rain teams while still maintaining its threatening offensive presence and can potentially run a Choice Scarf set for checking key offensive threats when the rain isn't up, but Tapu Lele's lackluster speed tier and relative frailty makes it a less common option for rain teams.
Finally, Landorus-T is the final offensive breaker that is oftentimes used to compliment the sweepers that rain teams are based around. Landorus-T is mandatory on rain teams that elect to use a different mega than Mega Swampert like Mega Scizor, but these teams are few and far between. However, Landorus-T can still function as an effective member of rain teams by providing Stealth Rock support so that Ferrothorn and Swampert don't have to run it. Additionally, Landorus-T can use Swords Dance in conjunction with Z Fly to lure in Grass-types that normally annoy Mega Swampert and other rain sweepers like Tangrowth and AV Tapu Bulu especially while providing a threatening breaker to dismantle defensive teams.Well that concludes my guide on rain as a playstyle. I hope that you guys enjoyed the guide and found it very informative. I'll try to either have someone else type up a guide on bulky offense by next Sunday or type it up myself. There may be a delay because of the holiday season, but it'll be up at some point. Also, please respond to the thread with any additional comments or concern you have with my guide. I'll be happy to respond to them either in the thread or in discord dms n_n
Bulky Grass-types like Ferrothorn and Tapu Bulu are notable nuisances towards rain, as they resist their Water-type STAB moves and can threaten them out by either removing their item, stacking up entry hazards, or just being able to KO them.
Pokemon that have access to weather somewhat invalidates rain as a whole. Mega Charizard-Y in particular can weaken Water-type attacks and KO the offensive Water-types that abuse the rain that Pelipper sets up. However, Mega Charizard Y has to be wary of using Solar Beam as Pelipper switches in because of Pelipper resetting rain and stopping Solar Beam. On the other hand, Tyranitar can offset rain and make offensive threats that its traditionally paired with, such as Swords Dance Kartana run through rain teams, especially if it's able to Pursuit Trap Pelipper.
Bulky Water-types can tank eat up Water-type attacks and outright wall some members of rain teams. Mantine in particular is immune to Water-type attacks, while hard walling Swampert. Toxapex is also very annoying for rain teams to deal with because it's able to pivot in and out vs a myriad of the Pokemon on rain teams with Regenerator in conjunction with its insane bulk, stalling out precious rain turns while also setting up Toxic Spikes to cripple Mega Swampert and other rain sweepers. Gastrodon deserves a mention here because it also has an immunity to Water-type attacks and unlike the two previous threats, stops Tapu Koko cold because of its Ground-typing.
Why is there a qwilfish and not omastar, seismitoad, or even kabutops? Qwilfish is a meme and its kind of getting a bit annoying how obsessed you are with it. I suggest that you replace this with a more commonly used rain abuser instead of trying to promote your "movement" as you call it. Also nowhere in the threat list do you mention mega Alakazam, Rotom-W, Tapu Fini, or Mega Venusaur. Also I would add Kyurem-Black and TORNADUS THERIAN FORME (why is that not there smh) to the misc sweepers part and Mega-Gyarados to the water abusers part.
Because it isHow are you going to call Chansey mandatory on Stall builds? Really?
It is not mandatory, but it is like Landorus-T when it comes to bulky offense. There is no reason not to use it, and it will hardly ever hurt you by using itHow are you going to call Chansey mandatory on Stall builds? Really?