Unpopular opinions

[Pikachu315111]

Growing models really shouldn't be a separate model, unless GF are stupid
....then again shinies are a separate model...

The Dynamax models shouldn't even be separate models! There should instead just be a script that tells the game to increase a Pokemon's model up to a set limit (for both height and length) and have the red clouds just vaguely floating above where the Pokemon would be standing.

They should nix this Dynamax/Gigantamax stuff in the next game and just bring the old 3DS models and Pokemon back in full.

They likely will. GF heavily pushed the idea Dynamax is only a Galar thing, the super mechanic of next game will either be different or maybe we'll revisit Mega Evolution and/or Z-Moves but tweaked with what they learned from Dynamax.

Not sure what you mean by "the old 3DS models", the models they're using ARE the old 3DS models. In Gen VI they "future-proofed" each Pokemon model by making them all have way more tris then they'll need for a long time, which sort of backfired as I think that's one reason why the 3DS games lagged a bit, but upon coming to the Switch the system can handle them much easily. They probably won't even need to update the models for the next few generations.

 

[Worldie]

The Dynamax models shouldn't even be separate models! There should instead just be a script that tells the game to increase a Pokemon's model up to a set limit (for both height and length) and have the red clouds just vaguely floating above where the Pokemon would be standing.

Well, I never implied it was the *correct* thing to do (as developer myself, it makes me cringe), I'm just stating what is the reality however.
I'm unsure if they're entire isolated models, but Dinamax definitely has its own dedicated animations, even though they're essentially reskinned versions of base ones, which is why "freshly imported" hacked pokemon made the game crash or had to use placeholder animations for Dynamaxing.

Something Something 7 Lilie models


Unrelated: I do know kids that behave like the stereotype that you hate Pikachu315111 . Luckily only a minority, most of the kids I know or run into are, you know, normal, but I can guarantee you there is a small yet noticeable part of kids that will indeed drop games when they run into anything they can't bruteforce.

 

[aegon the unlikely]

Well, I never implied it was the *correct* thing to do (as developer myself, it makes me cringe), I'm just stating what is the reality however.
I'm unsure if they're entire isolated models, but Dinamax definitely has its own dedicated animations, even though they're essentially reskinned versions of base ones, which is why "freshly imported" hacked pokemon made the game crash or had to use placeholder animations for Dynamaxing.

Something Something 7 Lilie models


Unrelated: I do know kids that behave like the stereotype that you hate Pikachu315111 . Luckily only a minority, most of the kids I know or run into are, you know, normal, but I can guarantee you there is a small yet noticeable part of kids that will indeed drop games when they run into anything they can't bruteforce.

But a small part nonetheless, and arguably smaller than you'd think, given that walkthroughs are a thing and the Internet even more so.

 

[Worldie]

But a small part nonetheless, and arguably smaller than you'd think, given that walkthroughs are a thing and the Internet even more so.

You're hitting a wrong wall there, I have no faith in the latest generations or their abilities to comprehend written text (even less so if in English), or even put the effort to look for a guide where I live but, this isn't related to Pokemon and nothing I'm willing to discuss here.

 

[aegon the unlikely]

You're hitting a wrong wall there, I have no faith in the latest generations or their abilities to comprehend written text (even less so if in English), or even put the effort to look for a guide where I live but, this isn't related to Pokemon and nothing I'm willing to discuss here.

That sounds more like a you problem, quite frankly (And this ''latest generations bad'' is like one of the oldest tropes in the book), but oh well.

 

[Bakugames]

Honestly I don't know what yall talking about, but kids this generation are smart as fuck. Makes me feel like a dumbass sometimes. I'm sure they can piece out more complicated stuff easier than we expect. Unless japanese kids are dumb as hell for some reason lol

Of course very complex stuff isn't exactly kid friendly, but considering evs and ivs haven't been revamped to actually be intuitive, it's not like pokemon hasn't made complex stuff

 

[Pikachu315111]

Something Something 7 Lilie models

Was it only 7? I recall the "issue" there being they had a Lillie model stashed away someplace on maps where they had a cutscene with her. Infact wouldn't be surprised if they also did that with Hau, Team Skull, etc. but Lillie was just more notable cause you encountered her much more times than any other character.

And while I can see novice programmers facepalming doing this instead of just having the game load in & out the character models they need, from what I understand some professional programmers would actually agree that, if the game had enough memory for it, having the models just loaded up somewhere is quicker and less likely to glitch than loading them in & out. And that's the key word here: "had enough memory". How much data did just loading an extra character model take, no more than any other NPC on the map I imagine. It's not a big issue as it's such a small amount of data I can see the argument for it, less chance to glitch over small amount of memory saved that wouldn't have been used otherwise anyway.

But Dynamax is different as it's not just a single small model of a few characters loaded on maps where that character has a cutscene, rather it's every Pokemon (plus alternate forms and Shiny) which they made a huge model of that you know they didn't compress. Now, for all I know the big models didn't take up that much more space than the smaller models, but it definitely felt like they wasted a lot of time on the Dynamax models (I think the red lighting effect may also be unique to each model now thinking about it). Overall GF went for style over quality this gen and I feel it backfired as it meant they had to cause a controversy to do it and no one was that impressed with the normal Dynamax Pokemon (the only thing people liked was the mechanics behind it which could have been done without making them big).

Unrelated: I do know kids that behave like the stereotype that you hate Pikachu315111 . Luckily only a minority, most of the kids I know or run into are, you know, normal, but I can guarantee you there is a small yet noticeable part of kids that will indeed drop games when they run into anything they can't bruteforce.

Well, I don't know what to say about those kids (hopefully they'll grow out of it). But simplifying the games just so for those kids sound like a shallow rabbit hole you shouldn't be heading head first into. Don't know what experience those kids are exactly looking for but it ain't a fulfilling one and sounds like they'll probably just go back to Fortnite (nothing against the game, though I can see it being the go-to games for those with that personality, only going to other games when they get frustrated but come back once they cooled off; aka no matter how good/simple those other games are it's just a break from their true game of interest).

 

[Worldie]

And while I can see novice programmers facepalming doing this instead of just having the game load in & out the character models they need, from what I understand some professional programmers would actually agree that, if the game had enough memory for it, having the models just loaded up somewhere is quicker and less likely to glitch than loading them in & out.

For what matters i can confirm you this is done in plenty of modern games, though, we're talking of PS4/5 games that happen to have slightly higher processing power than a 3ds.

Well, I don't know what to say about those kids (hopefully they'll grow out of it). But simplifying the games just so for those kids sound like a shallow rabbit hole you shouldn't be heading head first into. Don't know what experience those kids are exactly looking for but it ain't a fulfilling one and sounds like they'll probably just go back to Fortnite (nothing against the game, though I can see it being the go-to games for those with that personality, only going to other games when they get frustrated but come back once they cooled off; aka no matter how good/simple those other games are it's just a break from their true game of interest).

Let's say you kind of struck one of the reasons for which Fortnite, Hearthstone and Mobas, and hell, even Pokemon Go are so popular nowadays, while other genres like RTS are slowly fading out of popularity: it's games you can pick up, play a match or two, and quit istantly when bored (as well as altf4 with very little penalty most of the time), with no preparation or commitment required.

As I said a few times, I don't think GameFreak's opinion on "modern kids liking games they can pick and drop on the fly" is wrong. Might not be due to low attention span or lazyness or dumbness, but they are spot on on the read.

 

[Siggu]

With the whole matter of the copied models and memory, it's worth taking into account this: the 3DS has a processor with a frequency of only 268 MHz... and 128 MB of RAM, which is immense compared to the processor.

It makes sense that they'd just copy the model on to the map as they had way too much RAM for the processor the console has.

 

[pokemon4eva]

If the inevitable gen 4 remake debuts in gen 8, make for sure it will have dynamax mechanic and new gigantamaxes, probably will be part of the story and lore of Sinnoh (like it needs it, Sinnoh's lore is already well defined imo).

I keep saying inevitable because I know it will happen, but the public is so desperate to not realize we are following a already set formula. The question is when, and I would lose a substancial amount of hope if it drops this year...

 

[Adeleine]

I think we're missing the point when we ask whether modern kids appreciate the difficult and complexity offered by features like the Frontier. Kids across all time periods tend to connect to games on some kind of deeper level. This "deeper level" has always had multiple paths beyond the challenge and depth of gameplay itself. It could be connecting to characters with fanart or fanfics, or finding a sense of community with friends or with a personality.

It is hard for modern Pokemon to deeply engage modern kids specifically on difficulty and complexity, harder than for Red/Blue to its kids, but this isn't necessarily the kids' or GameFreak's fault. I blame the Internet. No, really.

I see two main types of difficulty for kids to impress their friends with. First is single player accomplishment, like the Frontier, where you complete, discover, or otherwise do something on your own. Second is PvP victory, like link battles, where you beat your friends directly. Worldie has already said some reasons why PvP victory has risen in popularity among kids these days, but I'll take another angle.

Impressing your friends through single player accomplishment is a lot harder in the age of the Internet. If you want to do something difficult in a Pokemon game, chances are a thousand people have already done it, and a hundred have uploaded YouTube videos on it. Less impressive. Further, Pokemon accomplishments themselves are almost automatically less hard because you have so much more information access, even if the trainers and battles don't change at all, and exciting discovery can feel almost impossible. It's a lot easier to excel within your in person friend group than within the entire world.

"Why don't they make Pokemon games actually hard, so the accomplishments would be more impressive and worthwhile to kids?" Even if you ignore stuff like alienating casual audience, Pokemon doesn't have the monopoly over kids' minds it used to. No game does. The internet has made such an enormous number of games known, accessible, and hosting communities in case your friends don't appreciate Dark Souls like you do. So, not only will your friends care less about the game you did well in, but if you go to a community that cares about this sort of thing instead, there's a ton of specialists that are probably out your league. (Game personalities can exist because they distinguish themselves from the specialists either by gathering an audience better while still being comparably good, or just being better.)

 

[Sonikku A]

This is also probably why most game devs now bluntly state a characters personality and then not expand on it. If they try to be secretive and develop the character more in other ways...it'll be spoiled on the web immediately

 

[Adeleine]

I don’t quite agree there. Not only do I associate flat characters more with past games (not specific to Pokemon, but for an example: remember when people though Silver was intricate and fleshed out?), but unlike with difficulty and bragging rights, players usually can choose to not spoil themselves. You can’t tell all your friends to not watch gameplay.

 

[aegon the unlikely]

All I'm honestly seeing are assumptions about how kids today are different from kids in the past because fOrTnItE lOL. While Fortnite IS popular, I genuinely question its existence or that of similar games has really hurt Pokemon any. It's literally an ENTIRELY different kind of game. Saying it undermines demand for Pokemon is like saying fast food establishments hurt fine dining or the NFL somehow undermines soccer from being more popular in America or to dumb it down even a little more...the existence of candy undermines the demand for chicken. I don't buy that honestly and while I might be wrong, it doesn't really make sense from an economic perspective. Zelda, Mario, or Fire Emblem would be a far better ''substitute'' than Pokemon due to all three being fun, globally popular RPGs with memorable characters and appearing on similar consoles. But Fortnite? Lol no.

Not even sure how the Internet somehow makes kids less motivated to play Pokemon when, in fact, it should make kids MORE motivated to do so due to the fact they can hunt down tier lists and/or walkthroughs online - even ones on YouTube - that they might not have been able to do before as easily. The plethora of sources, the awareness said sources exist, and the level of access to them are simply unmatched today. The Internet is literally the REASON why shiny hunting and stuff like that has become a fad, as well as why people care to do stuff like Nuzlockes, Wedlockes, and other Pokemon challenges and then stream all of that on YouTube, talk about it on Reddit or here, etc...the fact it's actually being confused for a reason for people to turn AWAY from Pokemon in favor of Fortnite or other ''quick'' games is genuinely mindboggling. I literally do not get it.

I mean, just looking at one of the tier lists already present on this website or a YouTube video is all a kid needs to do to get through Pokemon if they've never played it before, and these happen to be pretty fun as well as informative. Pokemon isn't even difficult unless you Nuzlocke it or something (and even then it's easy to win if you take the time to heal Pokemon instead of risking them like I have a bad tendency to do and/or use X-Item spam to ensure you can power through major matchups as I did against even Red), it's not Sekiro or Dark Souls by any means.

 

[Samtendo09]

They likely will. GF heavily pushed the idea Dynamax is only a Galar thing, the super mechanic of next game will either be different or maybe we'll revisit Mega Evolution and/or Z-Moves but tweaked with what they learned from Dynamax.

Not if they decided to shoehorn Dynamax (alongside Eternatus) in Sinnoh, a region with an already heavily established lore. If they do, this will greatly hurt what uniqueness both Galar and Sinnoh tried to have.

But we can be confident that the next generation will invent a new super mechanic, hopefully nowhere as absurd as Dynamax. I feel like that mechanic already overstayed its welcome quickly, even faster than Mega Evolution or Z-Moves ever did.

 

[aegon the unlikely]

Not if they decided to shoehorn Dynamax (alongside Eternatus) in Sinnoh, a region with an already heavily established lore. If they do, this will greatly hurt what uniqueness both Galar and Sinnoh tried to have.

But we can be confident that the next generation will invent a new super mechanic, hopefully nowhere as absurd as Dynamax. I feel like that mechanic already overstayed its welcome quickly, even faster than Mega Evolution or Z-Moves ever did.

That it did. People definitely seem a lot more negative about it than the other two, and I definitely share that sentiment. I loved Mega Evolution the moment I learned Charizard got a Dragon-type Mega that looked absolutely badass that finally propelled him into OU after ages below the tier. I loved it still more when relatively random guys like Beedrill, Sharpedo, Camerupt, and Pidgeot got it in ORAS as well as the Hoenn starters. It gave a lot of Pokemon cool niches or new viability they never likely had before, sometimes even to an absurd extreme (looking at you, Mega Kangaskhan with Parental Bond lol and Mega Lucario with Adaptability) but at least a much more manageable extreme than Dynamax/Gigantamax. I'm not as big a fan of Z-Moves but I also really like how you can be creative with them through stuff like Z-Splash and getting boosts from other Z-Moves.

 

[Brytmonlee]

But we can be confident that the next generation will invent a new super mechanic, hopefully nowhere as absurd as Dynamax. I feel like that mechanic already overstayed its welcome quickly, even faster than Mega Evolution or Z-Moves ever did.

That it did. People definitely seem a lot more negative about it than the other two, and I definitely share that sentiment.

You guys have never played VGC where Dynamax is nearly universally loved and it shows. But this is to be expected on a site where single 6v6 battles are the norm. Its balance in VGC comes from, at least from what I can tell, is that most things tend to run some bulk on them and in a mode where moves that hit both opposing Pokemon as king, D-max moves being single target while the secondary effect affects both Pokemon, depending on what the effect is, is fairly balanced there. And even though those moves damage through protect, a very common move, it only does a quarter of the damage and while it still activates the secondary effects, most of the time those are secondary and those effects have had the effect of making switching a little more prevalent.

 

[Adeleine]

Saying it undermines demand for Pokemon is like saying fast food establishments hurt fine dining or the NFL somehow undermines soccer from being more popular in America or to dumb it down even a little more...the existence of candy undermines the demand for chicken.. I don't buy that honestly and while I might be wrong, it doesn't really make sense from an economic perspective.

To be blunt, yes. You are wrong. This is material covered in intro to macroeconomics courses. Demand for one good reduces the demand for possible substitute goods, even if the substitute good does not completely fill every need of the original good. There are only so many sports fans, and if they're caring about and spending money on the NFL, they aren't caring about soccer (and require extra effort to change existing/entrenched preference). There's only so much time and money each household spends on food, and if they're spending that time at a fast food restaurant, they're not spending it at a fine dining establishment. Yes, some substitute goods are stronger than others and have stronger effects, and (the NFL) isn't a perfect substitute for (the MLS), but their demands are still inversely correlated.

As a whole, Pokemon lacks many strong/viable substitutes, which is a huge reason why it's so popular. But for specific aspects, like PVP and especially single-player difficulty, the substitutes are less weak. This partially explains why GameFreak puts less time and effort into these features than some would like, especially single-player difficulty, where it is competed against more strongly. Note that SWSH's most obvious focus of effort is where Pokemon lacks as many substitutes: the individual Pokemon themselves.

The Internet is literally the REASON why shiny hunting and stuff like that has become a fad

Shiny hunting is not a kid's fad, it's consistently disproportionately made up of older and more experienced fans. What I and others are looking at is kids.

as well as why people care to do stuff like Nuzlockes

Yes, Nuzlockes are an exception where a Pokemon difficulty challenge is still popular among kids. However, it wasn't made by Nintendo itself, which makes things more complicated if Nintendo would try to capture such a community with an in-game feature. This complication is another point against the viability of putting effort into the Frontier. Also, Nuzlockes and other exceptions aren't strong enough to fully compensate for the single-player accomplishment that Pokemon lost in the Internet transition (especially discovery, bragging ability to friends, and perception of difficulty, all of which are harmed by online walkthroughs).

I mean, just looking at one of the tier lists already present on this website or a YouTube video is all a kid needs to do to get through Pokemon if they've never played it before, and these happen to be pretty fun as well as informative. Pokemon isn't even difficult unless you Nuzlocke it or something (and even then it's easy to win if you take the time to heal Pokemon instead of risking them like I have a bad tendency to do and/or use X-Item spam to ensure you can power through major matchups as I did against even Red), it's not Sekiro or Dark Souls by any means.

Again, as far as single-player accomplishment specifically, Pokemon's problem isn't difficulty, but a difficulty-to-burned-time ratio that is too low. Other games tend to have higher difficulty accomplishment, less time needed to burn in gameplay to reach the same level of accomplishment, or both, giving them better accomplishment-to-time ratios. The Internet has made more kids aware of these other games with better ratios, giving Pokemon more competition in this area.

 

[Samtendo09]

You guys have never played VGC where Dynamax is nearly universally loved and it shows. But this is to be expected on a site where single 6v6 battles are the norm. Its balance in VGC comes from, at least from what I can tell, is that most things tend to run some bulk on them and in a mode where moves that hit both opposing Pokemon as king, D-max moves being single target while the secondary effect affects both Pokemon, depending on what the effect is, is fairly balanced there. And even though those moves damage through protect, a very common move, it only does a quarter of the damage and while it still activates the secondary effects, most of the time those are secondary and those effects have had the effect of making switching a little more prevalent.

Except not everyone play the VGC format. While Dynamax may be more balanced there, it wasn't the case in every other scenarios, particularly in all 1v1 formats. Dynamax only succeeded in appealing one group in that case, and GF would come off as massively pandering the VGC group if they ever tried to bring back Dynamax in Sinnoh where it wouldn't be belong to, especially for sake of full game compatibility between SwSh and the DP remakes. Plus not every single players who played SwSh are automatically interested in VGC, especially since most of the SwSh battles are Singles, not Doubles.

I do say, however, that a metagame where extra bulk and moves that hit two Pokémon at once make sense for Dynamax to be - or at least feels - more balanced, since you don't see any Cinderace that won a World but a Rillaboom (through actual bulk) jut did iirc.

Still, you should not pander to one competitive group if it means to hinder the quality of the game as a whole. While VGC fans can enjoy Dynamax all they want, everyone else will be epically disappointed having to deal with a mechanic that is not well built for anything beyond VGC. Just because it is balanced on one format doesn't means it is in every other formats, after all.

You can still make a VGC-oriented super mechanic without making the individual Pokémon too powerful in other formats by granting strong Doubles-viable effects, after all. Striking a happy middle is difficult, but not impossible. You cannot please everyone, but trying to please just one small group the most in comparison to the casual audience is not something that will always ends well.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

Let's say you kind of struck one of the reasons for which Fortnite, Hearthstone and Mobas, and hell, even Pokemon Go are so popular nowadays, while other genres like RTS are slowly fading out of popularity: it's games you can pick up, play a match or two, and quit istantly when bored (as well as altf4 with very little penalty most of the time), with no preparation or commitment required.

As I said a few times, I don't think GameFreak's opinion on "modern kids liking games they can pick and drop on the fly" is wrong. Might not be due to low attention span or lazyness or dumbness, but they are spot on on the read.

And then you look at the pacing of the later games, *especially* Gen 7...

 

[aegon the unlikely]

To be blunt, yes. You are wrong. This is material covered in intro to macroeconomics courses. Demand for one good reduces the demand for possible substitute goods, even if the substitute good does not completely fill every need of the original good. There are only so many sports fans, and if they're caring about and spending money on the NFL, they aren't caring about soccer (and require extra effort to change existing/entrenched preference). There's only so much time and money each household spends on food, and if they're spending that time at a fast food restaurant, they're not spending it at a fine dining establishment. Yes, some substitute goods are stronger than others and have stronger effects, and (the NFL) isn't a perfect substitute for (the MLS), but their demands are still inversely correlated.

As a whole, Pokemon lacks many strong/viable substitutes, which is a huge reason why it's so popular. But for specific aspects, like PVP and especially single-player difficulty, the substitutes are less weak. This partially explains why GameFreak puts less time and effort into these features than some would like, especially single-player difficulty, where it is competed against more strongly. Note that SWSH's most obvious focus of effort is where Pokemon lacks as many substitutes: the individual Pokemon themselves.


Shiny hunting is not a kid's fad, it's consistently disproportionately made up of older and more experienced fans. What I and others are looking at is kids.


Yes, Nuzlockes are an exception where a Pokemon difficulty challenge is still popular among kids. However, it wasn't made by Nintendo itself, which makes things more complicated if Nintendo would try to capture such a community with an in-game feature. This complication is another point against the viability of putting effort into the Frontier. Also, Nuzlockes and other exceptions aren't strong enough to fully compensate for the single-player accomplishment that Pokemon lost in the Internet transition (especially discovery, bragging ability to friends, and perception of difficulty, all of which are harmed by online walkthroughs).


Again, as far as single-player accomplishment specifically, Pokemon's problem isn't difficulty, but difficulty ratio that is too low. Other games tend to have higher difficulty accomplishment, less time needed to burn in gameplay to reach the same level of accomplishment, or both, giving them better time-to-accomplishment ratios. The Internet has made more kids aware of these other games with better ratios, giving Pokemon more competition in this field.

1. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not sold with your examples. Yes, demand for one good may reduce the demand for possible substitutes, but that would not realistically apply to a chicken vs candy example, it might apply to a chicken vs vegetable example (comparing Pokemon to not another RPG but instead another ''traditional'' video game like Tekken instead). Let's just say you'd have a very very hard time convincing anyone that candy is a realistic substitute for chicken. You're probably more accurate with the NFL vs soccer comparison, although that belies the fact that Americans as we currently speak are far more favorable towards the NFL even though both currently exist at the same time. I honestly doubt NFL would be much more popular (or soccer much less popular) if the other sport disappeared from history and the world itself.

2. I'm...not remotely convinced. Some of the most popular Pokemon games universally (and not just among adults, a lot of who played these games as kids anyway) come from generations known for notorious bosses - Gen 2 (Whitney, Red, and Clair) and Gen 4 (really just Cynthia), looking at you. Gen 5, arguably one of the hardest generations itself, is also becoming more well-loved and if kids are really such a significant part of the player base as y'all and Game Freak assume, I honestly doubt that's separate from the kids' own interests. I even wonder if kids and adults are all that divergent in their attitudes towards the game - Gen 7 ironically pisses adults off EXACTLY because they're slow and handholding, yet we're assuming the kids and even the more impatient ones among them would be fine with such a slow game either.

3. Shiny hunting isn't a fad belonging to any specific age group actually? Ever thought that the reason it looks like mostly ''adults'' do it is because...*gasp*...adults happen to have louder voices about Pokemon shit in general? My college professor's kid literally collected square and sparkle shinies in Sw/Sh and showed them to me. I just came across a YouTube video chronicling the shinies the YouTuber found as a kid. As a kid myself, I freaked out when I found two separate shinies and made sure to catch them - yes, that's not really shiny hunting, but it's not as if my kid self didn't appreciate shinies nonetheless and I see zero evidence to assume at least some kids wouldn't partake, especially when I know some did.

4. People really come off as apologists for Game Freak at best and going full on ''kids bad'' at worst, neither of which is particularly cool. Like it's pretty clear a massive and arguably the more influential portion of the player base is relatively grownup, it makes no sense to NOT cater to them ESPECIALLY when doing so doesn't even have to come at the expense of more ''casual'' players. In fact, given that the massive hysteria and even boycott threats regarding Sw/Sh came from so-called veteran players comparing them to earlier Pokemon games, BOTW, etc - who would naturally trend much older than the ''kids'' - it definitely seems as if it's the grownups and not the kids who have the loudest (and by proxy the most influential) voices. If kids dump Pokemon, you probably wouldn't even know it. If adults do, you sure will. It should be clear who has more influence.

Game Freak has an opportunity to maintain brand loyalty - possibly even draw in new fans - by allowing the possibility to maximize challenges (among other things like undoing the Pokemon removal, which I really doubt anyone liked). A difficulty setting available from the beginning literally solves that problem, quick as spit, most ''casuals'' will play casually and anyone wanting a challenge would know what to do.

Just create the option. It's not hard. Y'all did it with B2W2, don't pretend you can't do it now. And make the Exp. Share its SM equivalent.

 

[Brytmonlee]

Except not everyone play the VGC format. While Dynamax may be more balanced there, it wasn't the case in every other scenarios, particularly in all 1v1 formats. Dynamax only succeeded in appealing one group in that case, and GF would come off as massively pandering the VGC group if they ever tried to bring back Dynamax in Sinnoh where it wouldn't be belong to, especially for sake of full game compatibility between SwSh and the DP remakes. Plus not every single players who played SwSh are automatically interested in VGC, especially since most of the SwSh battles are Singles, not Doubles.

You should not pander to one competitive group if it means to hinder the quality of the game as a whole. While VGC fans can enjoy Dynamax all they want, everyone else will be epically disappointed having to deal with a mechanic that is not well built for anything beyond VGC. Just because it is balanced on one format doesn't means it is in every other formats, after all.

You can still make a VGC-oriented super mechanic without making the individual Pokémon too powerful in other formats by granting strong Doubles-viable effects, after all. Striking a happy middle is difficult, but not impossible. You cannot please everyone, but trying to please just one small group the most in comparison to the casual audience is not something that will always ends well.

What other formats? As far as GameFreak go, the only other format there is is 3v3 singles. And when it comes to in-game, you could only use D-max in certain locations, unlike Z-moves or Mega Evolution, so you could not abuse the mechanic throughout the game.

 

[Samtendo09]

What other formats? As far as GameFreak go, the only other format there is is 3v3 singles. And when it comes to in-game, you could only use D-max in certain locations, unlike Z-moves or Mega Evolution, so you could not abuse the mechanic throughout the game.

That is true but 3v3 singles is simply became unfun as long as Dynamax is around as it is either massive stall or massive offense, and while in-game it is restricted to certain locations, the AI made awful use of it by making only the last Pokémon (i.e. their Ace) to use it, making it all too easy for the player to exploit against the last Pokémon by Dynamaxing when the Gym Leader / Oleana / Rose / Leon / Mustard / Rival / Peony is down to just three Pokémon and the player's Dynamaxed Pokémon already getting boosts against the Ace, ensuring a OHKO or at least putting it to the red. And again, in-game is mostly Singles, which means not all players knows what Dynamax can really do, either, beyond of course the Max Raid, but that one have its own shares of problems unfortunately.

Sure, newcomers don't know instantly in advance on who would be the bosses' Ace, but simple knowledge and how the AI goes will make newcomers to discover a pattern very quickly. Not every children, sure, but older players will quickly notice a pattern about it and try to take advantage of that in-game opponent Dynamax pattern. I could be wrong on that, but I still stand about 3v3 singles and general uses.

 

[UninspiredLunch]

Anyway, I didn't come to dislike Dynamax through competitive battling, but you know... the actual in-game raids... which until the release of the DLCs were literally the only postgame content available... I hate the hideously buggy online wild area, I hate the useless NPCs, I hate how convoluted it is to play with friends, I hate the hackers and griefers, I hate the fucking catch rates. I don't understand how they managed to make this mechanic, which during your playthrough is IMO the most fun part of the base game, into such a frustrating mess once you beat Leon.

 

[Adeleine]

Aegon, I think you're being a bit hasty to respond and could benefit from thinking through your points the extra second. Multiple times you've been pretty off-base with what I'm saying or just incorrect.

generations known for notorious bosses - Gen 2 (Whitney, Red, and Clair)

Yes... the game with three notorious bosses to boost single player accomplishment was the one released before the modern internet, when such accomplishment was more valuable for the franchise economically. That exactly plays into with what I'm saying. My point is about how single player accomplishment isn't as incentivized for the franchise now post-modern-Internet.

Gen 5, arguably one of the hardest generations itself, is also becoming more well-loved

Gen 5 is becoming more well-loved now, when the kids who played it are older and looking back. Gen 5 being popular now isn't the answer to the preferences of people who are kids now, which is what we're analyzing.

Shiny hunting isn't a fad belonging to any specific age group actually?

I simply did not say this. I said that shiny hunting had a much higher percentage of older and more experienced fans (be they upper teens or literally adults) than the franchise overall. This is a true statement, and a statement that makes shiny hunting less relevant (even if not zero relevant) to determining the preferences of kids.

Like it's pretty clear a massive and arguably the more influential portion of the player base is relatively grownup, it makes no sense to NOT cater to them ESPECIALLY when doing so doesn't even have to come at the expense of more ''casual'' players.

There's two reasons this doesn't work this way:
Grownup fans tend to be more established, which means they're more likely to buy games even if you don't directly cater to them, which means there is less economic incentive to cater to them.
Any effort into a feature that doesn't benefit everyone equally means less effort spent somewhere else, so someone is inevitably losing hours spent towards them.

1. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not sold with your examples. Yes, demand for one good may reduce the demand for possible substitutes, but that would not realistically apply to a chicken vs candy example, it might apply to a chicken vs vegetable example (comparing Pokemon to not another RPG but instead another ''traditional'' video game like Tekken instead). Let's just say you'd have a very very hard time convincing anyone that candy is a realistic substitute for chicken. You're probably more accurate with the NFL vs soccer comparison, although that belies the fact that Americans as we currently speak are far more favorable towards the NFL even though both currently exist at the same time. I honestly doubt NFL would be much more popular (or soccer much less popular) if the other sport disappeared from history and the world itself.

I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to say here or how it is relevant to kid gaming preferences. The existence of other games with equal or better single-player accomplishment provides competition to Pokemon's single-player accomplishment experience, so difficulty in Pokemon doesn't help the franchise sell as much as it used to.