Project Ubers Victim of the Week! Season 1 Week 4: Ho-oh (Sub)

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inventing a set to adapt to an unexploited niche is discovery. i think that the rule that the pokemon has to be existing in viability ranking is a self-defeating rule if you guys actually want to discover new ideas.
If it was presented with replays of it winning on high ladder or in a circuit tour match it would be discovery. When presented with a meme attached to it, it is not.
 
Voting has begun for Week 1's Victim: Primal Groudon

reserving lunala

View attachment 178805
Lunala @ Lunalium Z
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 244 SpA / 12 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Moongeist Beam
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast

Lunala is a check to Primal Groudon due to its amazing ability in Shadow Shield which acts like Multiscale. Lunala can tank due to its ability even a +2 Precicipice Blades from Primal Groudon.
Furthermore Lunala with its Z-Move is capable of OHKOing Primal Groudon with its strong STAB Menacing Moonrace Maelstrom. However Lunala has to be worried about a +2 Attack boosted Primal Groudon
and can't come in directly into a strong Precipice Blades, henceforth making Lunala only an offensive check to Primal Groudon.

Calcs:
unboosted dmg:
252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shadow Shield Lunala: 152-179 (36.6 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shadow Shield Lunala: 84-99 (20.2 - 23.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

boosted dmg:
+2 252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shadow Shield Lunala: 303-357 (73 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shadow Shield Lunala: 168-198 (40.4 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

moongeist dmg:
244 SpA Lunala Moongeist Beam vs. 0 HP / 100 SpD Groudon-Primal: 166-196 (48.6 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO

z-moongeist dmg:
Menacing Moonraze Maelstrom vs. 0 HP / 100 SpD Groudon-Primal: 331-390 (97 - 114.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO



My stab at this:

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
Jolly Nature
244 Atk/68 Def/196 Spe
-Earthquake
-U-turn
-Stone Edge
-Hidden Power Ice/Knock Off

The speed EVs and Nature allow Lando to outspeed Pdon prior to Rock Polish while 68 Defense Evs allow it to take a Stone Edge after intimidate and the attack EVs can allow the flying tiger to OHKO Pdon back with EQ after Rocks thus locking the Pdon player into deciding whether or not they want to set up a SD first or RP first thus putting Pdon in a 50/50 situation.

-1 252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 68 Def Landorus-Therian: 104-123 (32.6 - 38.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
244 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 236-278 (69.2 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

As one can see from the calcs here, if Groudon wants a chance at nailing Lando it needs to go for both SD and RP in order revenge kill it.

Part of Groudon's power is that it has many very good sets that all anchor around its defensive attributes and the asinine power of Precipice Blades. Kyogre doesn't exactly check this particular Groudon if it has the right boost that breaks your set, but it is about as good as you can get. (even Zygarde has trouble with this particular Groudon to give you an idea of how dangerous it is)

Check
Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 32 HP / 236 Atk / 64 Def / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Ice Beam
- Earthquake
- Thunder

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Origin Pulse


These two need to be scared if Groudon boosts its speed as they come in, but both will move first against most Groudon and will easily OHKO it with their their water moves under heavy rain. The physical attacking fish will live max Attack Precipice Blades if there are it has taken no damage at all (yes Stealth Rock makes it scared of Blades) and has the 100% accurate KO move. The special attacker will Speed tie at worst with unboosted Groudon but is always scared of Blades.

Kyogre @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Toxic / Ice Beam

This doesn't take on Groudon if it has boosted its Attack, but does have a much easier time with any other Groudon than the other sets. It will always KO Groudon with Heavy Rain Scald. This goes without saying, but Kyogre doesn't take 2 Precipice Blades without being KOed.

Groudon has a funny interaction with Kyogre where it is actually checked by Groudon should Groudon have its Harsh Sunshine overhead. Kyogre usually won't check double dance Groudon should Kyogre be forced out initially and the Groudon player use the opportunity to begin boosting.

Defensive Lunala




Lunala @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 216 HP / 92 SpA / 200 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Roost
- Toxic
- Moongeist Beam

Shadow Shield allows Lunala to come on every Groudon-Primal's attacks easily combined with roost to make its ability working again. Toxic is here to cheap damages on Groudon-Primal, Defog to remove the potential Stealth Rock and Moongeist Beam as an offensive pressure. The speed EVs and the timid nature allow Lunala to outspeed every Groudon-Primal's spreads (without Rock Polish boost) which is useful to beat it, 92 EVs in SpA allows Lunala to 2hko Groudon-Primal after SR and the EVs in HP make it bulkier to deal with the Precipice Blades.

252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 216 HP / 0 Def Shadow Shield Lunala: 152-179 (32.4 - 38.1%) -- 1.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 216 HP / 0 Def Shadow Shield Lunala: 303-357 (64.6 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

92 SpA Lunala Moongeist Beam vs. 0 HP / 100 SpD Groudon-Primal: 150-177 (43.9 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


Defensive Zygarde-C as a counter
Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Rest
- Coil / Sleep Talk
- Glare / Coil / Dragon Tail

Defensive Zygarde-C is one of the closest things that you're going to get to a counter, especially if you consider the possibility of Groudon having Fire Punch instead of Stone Edge. If you're already transformed, you'll be okay: you can literally boost Coil alongside it while not only making you take less damage, but also making you an actual threat to the opposing team. The matchup if you're still 50% is not guaranteed, but it still is almost impossible to lose: you still can take a +2 Precipice Blades every time from full (25% chance to KO after rocks), but if you use Coil on the turn that you take Precipice Blades (considering that you're slower before the Glare if you're not RestTalk), you'll have around 7.5% chance to get 2HKOed (your opponent best bet is you having bad luck with Sleep Talk), but you still can use Dragon Tail to phaze it out or use Glare to cripple it and maybe even fish for some paras. Thousand is great because it already 3HKOes Groudon without any boosts, 2HKOes with just +1 and has a good chance to outright OHKO it at +3.
It's needless to say that you always wins the 1v1 if you have a free switch, even if you still are 50%.
It also can take almost any set that lacks HP Ice and work as a nice switch to Eruption as a bonus.

+2 252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-50%: 346-408 (82.3 - 97.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 346-408 (54.4 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 231-273 (36.3 - 42.9%) -- 97.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+6 252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. +3 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 277-327 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Zygarde-Complete Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 132-156 (38.7 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 0 Atk Zygarde-Complete Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 194-230 (56.8 - 67.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 0 Atk Zygarde-Complete Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 320-380 (93.8 - 111.4%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

Practically any variant of Giratina-O checks Primal Groudon, as it can't be 2hkoed from full by Rock Polish sweeper sets with 1 turn of setup, but this specific set is likely the best at it. Hex into Draco Meteor or 2 Dracos KOs any offensive Primal Groudon variant while Support sets get hit by Toxic and then crushed with Hex while having their rocks defogged away. Only set to look out for is switching hard in on eruption, which does 2hko. Overall, Giratina-O is an excellent choice for teams with the offensive pressure to put set-up Primal Groudon into range of Draco Meteor or handle a low HP don. It also works together with other offensive checks such as Primal Kyogre to give an alternate answer in case it's lack of recovery becomes a problem.
Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Defog
- Hex
- Draco Meteor
- Toxic
252+ SpA Griseous Orb Giratina-Origin Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 0 HP / 100 SpD Groudon-Primal: 389-460 (114 - 134.8%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns
252+ SpA Griseous Orb Giratina-Origin Hex (65 BP) vs. 0 HP / 100 SpD Groudon-Primal: 130-154 (38.1 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Griseous Orb Giratina-Origin Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 100 SpD Groudon-Primal: 259-306 (75.9 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Groudon-Primal Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Giratina-Origin in Harsh Sunshine: 165-194 (37.4 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Giratina-Origin: 121-143 (27.4 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ SpA Griseous Orb Giratina-Origin Hex (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Groudon-Primal: 235-277 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after toxic damage


As a counter to the specific set
Arceus-Grass @ Meadow Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 80 HP / 176 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast
- Recover

Has excellent bulk, resists Blades, neutral to Edge, has reliable recovery, and 2HKOs easily.

176 SpA Meadow Plate Arceus-Grass Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 100 SpD Groudon-Primal: 205-243 (60.1 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Grass: 118-139 (29.4 - 34.6%) -- 9.1% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Stone Edge vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Grass: 131-155 (32.6 - 38.6%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO

tbh some of the mons mentioned above are just double dance pdon's check such as primal kyogre due to it's too dangerous to switch in. Besides, mons like lando-T and grassceus r just based on the opposing pdon's set is already confirmed, thus in fact they aren't solid answers due to they may be take down by pdon's other common sets, moves such as overheat, eruption, fireblast are dangerous to them in fact. From my point of view, Cynara's groundceus and Staxi's defensive lunala as well as dovah's gira-O are good answers, btw i suggest Cynara to add a priority since Judgment can't KO pdon, which can be dangerous while mons like magearna or dusk mane give pdon a free chance to set up.
At last, I'd like to share my pdon check lunala's set:
Lunala @ Leftovers/ Lunalium Z
Ability: Shadow Shield
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 116 HP / 192 Def / 200 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Toxic
- Roost
- Defog
yeah it's a bit different from the calculator set, I give a bit more EVS into HP to make it roost to max hp after taking a max special attack's eruption from pdon:252+ SpA Groudon-Primal Eruption (150 BP) vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Shadow Shield Lunala in Harsh Sunshine: 212-249 (47.7 - 56%) -- 82.8% chance to 2HKO
the remain EVS are given to speed and def to outspeed 90 max speed then reduce the damage of precipice blades.
u can also change it's item into Lunalium Z if here's another solid answer to special pdon and u wanna damage it after a rock polish/swords dance, and it can also offer a way to ko necro-ultra(yeah moongeist beam can't lol)

Deoxys Offensive Lead
View attachment 179672
Deoxys-Speed @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psycho Boost
- Taunt
- Protect




Deoxys Speed Is a Great Check of Groudon Due to Its Speed Possibility of Yawning Thanks to the Sash and Pull Taunt to avoid the groudon boost Besides of the Boost Kill to OHKO Groudon. Also your Deoxys Attack Set is a Great Check for Groudon But I'm left with this that I did and it's more original

After Nasty Plot +2 252+ SpA Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 100 SpD Groudon-Primal: 396-466 (116.1 - 136.6%) – guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost vs. 0 HP / 100 SpD Groudon-Primal: 198-234 (58 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed: 168-198 (69.7 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed: 301-355 (124.8 - 147.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

MEGA LATIAS

Latias-Mega @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 4 SpD / 96 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Toxic
- Recover
- Draco Meteor

Mega-Latias' levitate is extremely usefull in order to check Primal-Groudon, giving it an immunity to Precipice-Blades and only leaving it vulnerable to stone edge, it's naturally good defensive stats coupled with max investement in HP and a sizeable investement in defense let it easily live a Stone Edge at +2 by Primal-Groudon. 308 speed guarantees Latias to outspeed primals unboosted. Toxic let's Latias cripple Groudon whilst spamming recover. Draco Meteor deals about 60% letting Latias kill groudon before after 3/4 turns of toxic or 2HKO after hitting Toxic.

+2 252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 156 Def Latias-Mega: 229-270 (62.9 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Latias-Mega Draco Meteor over 2 turns vs. 0 HP / 100 SpD Groudon-Primal: 277-326 (81.2 - 95.6%) -- 43.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock


View attachment 179630
Yveltal @ Leftovers/Charti Berry
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 224 HP / 32 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Foul Play
- Roost
Yveltal is a commonly used pokemon that is capable of filling many capable roles. One of those roles is a stallbreaker/physical wall role, The set allows it to status Primal Groudon, Taunt it to prevent it from setting up, and punish it with Foul Play. Leftovers helps with longevity while Charti Berry allows it to tank a +2 Stone edge and retaliate back with Foul Play.

252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Stone Edge vs. 224 HP / 32 Def Yveltal: 308-364 (68.5 - 81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Stone Edge vs. 224 HP / 32 Def Charti Berry Yveltal: 308-363 (68.5 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0- Atk Dark Aura Yveltal Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 382-451 (112 - 132.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Rayquaza @ Focus Sash
Ability: Air Lock
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Surf
- Dragon Ascent
- Extreme Speed
- V-create

Air lock allows ray to ignore intense sun amd just click surf. In combanation with 4x weakness and p-dons low spdef it picks up a guaranteed OHKO. Sash allows it to kill pdon even at +2 speed and attack.


Voting Rules!
Your vote should include 3 different sets ranking from 1 (best) and 3 (worst).
I will demonstrate by voting myself.
1. Katy
2. Skysolo
3. Chessking345

Voting ends June 15th
[If I have missed anyone or made any mistakes please let me know]
 
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