Togekiss (Update)

Snorlaxe

2 kawaii 4 u
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
Yup, I actually tested it a bit more over the past few days, and found it to be pretty good, so don't worry; it's staying. ^_^

The Nasty Plot set has been updated, and there are now two Nasty Plot sets, a defensive one and an offensive one (defensive one written by CIM). That means that the actual analysis is finished, so I would now like some grammar checks on this, please :)
 
You know, I was thinking. This hasn't actually been through QC yet, so it probably should before anyone makes any serious judgments on it. What are your thoughts on that?
 

Snorlaxe

2 kawaii 4 u
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
You know, I was thinking. This hasn't actually been through QC yet, so it probably should before anyone makes any serious judgments on it. What are your thoughts on that?
After two full pages of a lot of content stuff, I think that the content is probably fine, but if a QC member raises any major objection or whatever, then I have no problem with this being moved back to QC.
 
Yeah, but none of that has been from QC members, those dedicated to knowing the rights and wrongs of whether something would work. I think I'll bring it up to some of the QC members, and if they have any objections to what's in the first post, they may move it back. If they don't, however, I'll go ahead with a proofread.
 
Since there seems to be a lot of debate on what sets should/shouldn't be on-site, I have moved this to QC. I'll weigh in with my official decision soon, but please check it out other QC members.
 

cim

happiness is such hard work
is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Please, do not do this. The bulky togekiss is very good for teams that don't mind stealth rock being set-up and I will just take a few random calcs from my Rmt to demonstrate it's survivability:

Defensive Rotom Thunderbolt: 53.6% - 63.8%

Lead Aerodactyl Rock Slide: 49.6% - 58.7%

Lead Metagross Meteor Mash: 42.7% - 50.4%

Lead Metagross Bullet Punch: 17.1% - 20.5%

Togekiss’s Fire Blast against said Metagross(without Occa): 72.5% - 85.7%

New MixMence Draco Meteor: 66.1% - 78.1%

New MixMence Outrage: 51.6% - 61%

Choice Band Scizor Bullet Punch: 37.9% - 44.7%

LO Starmie Hydro Pump: 53.8% - 63.5%

LO Starmie Ice Beam/ Thunderbolt: 57% - 67.2%

As you can see, it's pretty easy to paralyze the threats as they attack you, roost off the damage in most cases, and flinch hax them to death. Even Rotom is successfully neutered by this technique, due to Roost's effect. In general, it can survive much more and is MUCH more useful late game. please, test it some more.
He's talking about the lead set, not the defensive Togekiss in general.
 

Snorlaxe

2 kawaii 4 u
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
DUDE I didnt even know that this was moved to QC! so I guess I'm bumping this now...anything that you QC men wanna see changed?
 

AccidentalGreed

Sweet and bitter as chocolate.
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
I may have to test some of these sets for now, due to the momentum of the QC. Heal Bell support might have to be mentioned due to all the status critically affecting Togekiss (well, not burn, but it takes a pretty injuring 12.5% out).

I have a question though: For those of you who use Togekiss, how successful is it in doing its job generally?
 
Togekiss in my experience ALWAYS does something significant when it gets in. The only problem I have with Togekiss in general is that defensively it doesnt really check anything. It's not tough to get in per say, but its like "when can I use this?"

[SET]
name: Offensive Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Air Slash
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Roost / Aura Sphere
item: Life Orb
ability: Serene Grace
nature: Timid
evs: 192 HP / 236 Spe / 80 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set takes a more offensive approach to Nasty Plot Togekiss. While many Togekiss sets aim to exploit its impressive bulk, this set takes advantage of its massive Special Attack and decent Speed. Very few Pokemon will be able to switch in on this Togekiss safely once it secures a Nasty Plot boost; indeed, every Pokemon in the OU tier is at the very least 2HKOed by a +2 Togekiss.</p>

<p>Nasty Plot allows Togekiss to boost its already high Special Attack to astronomical levels in just one turn of set up. Air Slash is Togekiss’ STAB move, and comes with a neat 60% flinch rate (thanks to Serene Grace). Fire Blast is used to hit Pokemon like Scizor and Forretress who resist Togekiss’ Air Slash (they don't resist. Both are actually OHKOed at +2 by Air slash. Fire Blast is for Skarmory, Metagross, Bronzong). It also sees additional use in its ability to OHKO 252 HP Zapdos and Rotom-A who resist all of Togekiss’ other moves and could otherwise set up on it. Aura Sphere is the best choice in the final slot for its ability to OHKO Heatran and Tyranitar; these Pokemon will otherwise completely wall Togekiss. However, Roost is a viable alternative if you want to have the ability to conserve Togekiss’ health and possibly prolong its sweep.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Another interesting option for a move is Shadow Ball. With it, Togekiss is able to hit Rotom-A for high damage right off the bat. However, it has very little use beyond this, and so is often better off untouched. (Shadow Ball is actually worse than Ominous Wind for Rotom and Ancientpower for Zapdos. 20% +1 Everything / +3 Stat boost is absurd)</p>

<p>The EV spread is customized to fit Togekiss’ needs. After a Nasty Plot boost, Togekiss’ Life Orb Fire Blast will do a minimum of 87% damage to 252 HP Rotom-A, while 252 HP Zapdos is hit for at least 80% damage. With Stealth Rock support, Togekiss is able to easily OHKO both of the aforementioned Pokemon. 236 Speed EVs and a Timid nature are used as they allow Togekiss to outspeed Adamant Lucario and proceed to smash it with Fire Blast for a OHKO (Air Slash already OHKOs). The remaining EVs are placed into HP, giving Togekiss an impressive HP stat of 311 (The HP is actually 359, 311 is min, lol); when you combine this number and Togekiss’ already impressive defenses, you’ll find that you have both a sturdy and powerful sweeper on your hands.</p>

<p>One of the most important things to have when using this Togekiss set is Stealth Rock support. It allows Togekiss to achieve several notable OHKOes that it otherwise would not be able to, and so is a necessity. Swampert is a good choice for the role of a Stealth Rock user as he and Togekiss cover each other’s weaknesses very well. Metagross is another capable teammate for the same reason. Rapid Spin support can also be a big factor when using this Togekiss. It will lose 25% of its health every time it switches in, which means that it will be put at a disadvantage from the very first time it comes in, and will not be able to sweep quite as easily. For this reason, Rapid Spin support is extremely beneficial alongside this Togekiss; Life Orb Rapid Spin Starmie is a good choice for this. It can switch in easily on many attacks that would otherwise threaten Togekiss, such as Ice Beam, and proceed to either Spin or beat down the opposing team with its powerful STAB attacks. It is also a great offensive partner alongside Togekiss. While not at all necessary, Thunder Wave support is an interesting option to use alongside this set, as it allows Togekiss to outspeed and severely damage Pokemon who would otherwise be faster than it. Celebi is capable of using Thunder Wave well, and works decently on a defensive level alongside Togekiss.</p>
Reason I would put Roost first is because there is HP investment listed on the main spread. It makes more sense to have Roost with HP EVs, then 3 attacks and HP EVs. I would mention that if using Aura Sphere you may as well just go 4 / 252 / 252
 

Snorlaxe

2 kawaii 4 u
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
Thanks for that stuff RL, I wrote the set in a huge rush -.-

Can some QC guys look at this, please (or I'll come on irc and annoy you about it...and we know how much that sucks!)
 

Setsuna

Prototype
is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
The majority of the sets that the OP contains look good. However, if there is something that I´d like to see removed is the 'Leadkiss' set -- this is not an effective lead in today´s metagame. With that change made, I´ll approve this update.
 

Snorlaxe

2 kawaii 4 u
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
Yea Setsuna, I was actually thinking of removing it even before you told me to, as I tested it last week and it wasnt as good as it was when I wrote it. Leadakiss set, gone!
 

Snorlaxe

2 kawaii 4 u
is a Top Contributor Alumnus
Okay, can I get some GP checks on this?

(note that the analysis is p long and will probably require 3 checks 9.9)
 

toshimelonhead

Honey Badger don't care.
is a Tiering Contributor
I used this set in my latest OU team with success, so I figured I might propose some slight modifications.

name: Paraflinch
move 1: Air Slash
move 2: Thunder Wave / Body Slam
move 3: Aura Sphere / Nasty Plot / Substitute/ Heal Bell
move 4: Roost
item: Leftovers
nature: Bold
ability: Serene Grace
evs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 68 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Serene Grace is definitely not wasted on a Pokemon like Togekiss. A 60% flinch rate combined with paralysis support leaves the opposing Pokemon with only a 30% chance of doing anything at all. Combine this with Togekiss's general bulk and recovery from Roost and he can pose a serious threat to an opponent's team.</p>

<p>Air Slash is mandatory for STAB and flinching on Togekiss. Thunder Wave is the most reliable option in the second slot to paralyze whatever your opponent might switch into Togekiss. Body Slam is an option to look for if you want to paralyze Pokemon immune to Thunder Wave, such as Jolteon, Flygon, and Swampert. The third slot has numerous options to choose from. Aura Sphere is the primary choice to round out Togekiss' coverage, hitting Rock- and Steel-types particularly hard. Nasty Plot is available to help Togekiss sweep, although it should be noted that it'd illegal with Body Slam. Substitute can also be used to make Togekiss even harder to take down and keep him safe from status. Heal Bell is another option to help Togekiss serve as a cleric, which is a help against stall teams, as Blissey walls this set and Togekiss only 4HKOs Skarmory with Aura Sphere. The last move is given to Roost to provide Togekiss with reliable recovery.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs and nature are chosen to give Togekiss enough physical bulk so that Choice Band Scizor's Bullet Punch will never 2HKO you even after Stealth Rock is taken into account. The rest of the EVs are placed into Special Defense to add as much special bulk as possible. No Speed investment is used here as the set should attempt to spread paralysis as much as possible before trying to sweep. </p>

<p>Pokemon that further help spread paralysis around an opponent's team are great candidates for teammates to this Togekiss. Jirachi carrying Iron Head and its own paralysis inducing attack immediately comes to mind. Jirachi can also switch into the Rock-type attacks aimed at Togekiss with ease. Blissey can also spread paralysis around quite effectively, although it should be noted that Blissey shares much of its counter list with Togekiss. Magnezone resists all of the attacks Togekiss is weak to, meanwhile Togekiss will gladly switch into the Ground-type attacks aimed at Magnezone. Magnezone will also happily remove the Steel-type Pokemon that resist Togekiss' Air Slash. Entry hazard support should definitely be considered with this Togekiss as well, since once the opponent is paralyzed and can't hit Togekiss they will not want to stay in and sacrifice their Pokemon. Speaking of entry hazards, Rapid Spin support is worth considering to give Togekiss an easier time switching in. Forretress can perform this role admirably by being able to sponge the attacks aimed at Togekiss and set up Spikes or Rapid Spin as they switch out.</p>
 

firecape

This is the end...
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Obviously I'm not a GP member, but I have nothing better to do.

Additions/changes in bold
Removals in red

[Overview]

<p>Togekiss fills a very unique role in the OU metagame with its ability to serve as a sweeper, a specially defensive tank, a general annoyance, or an excellent Nasty Plot Baton Passer. It's also one of the few users of Serene Grace, and it's certainly able to put it to use with its movepool. Togekiss' respectable typing provides it enough ways to switch into combat and its above average defenses make it surprisingly difficult for opponents to shoot down this paper plane without STAB, super effective attacks.</p>

<p>Togekiss has a few weaknesses that it it needs to watch out for when being used, however. As it is weak to Rock-type attacks, it loses 25% of its HP on switching into Stealth Rock. It's also not fast enough to outpace much of the metagame, having only a base 80 Speed stat. This means that if you plan on having Togekiss successfully sweep, you need to either spread paralysis around or eliminate your opponent's faster Pokemon. Despite these downfalls, Togekiss is a useful addition to any team.</p>

[SET]
name: Old School Plot Sweeper
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Air Slash
move 3: Aura Sphere / Heal Bell
move 4: Roost
item: Leftovers
ability: Serene Grace
nature: Modest
evs: 96 HP / 192 SpA / 220 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This Togekiss takes a more conventional route toward sweeping, taking advantage of its massive Special Attack, good defenses, and access to Roost in order to successfully obtain a Nasty Plot boost. With a Modest nature, a boosted Air Slash does catastrophic damage, OHKOing Scizor after Stealth Rock, while scoring 2-3HKOs even on Pokemon who resist it. When you combine Air Slash's flinch rate and Togekiss' bulk, you'll find that it has no problem sweeping teams that are sufficiently weakened. Unlike most Nasty Plot sweepers, Togekiss has Roost and the bulk needed to take down opponents without worrying about taking attacks; even weaker super effective hits from the special side won't significantly damage it.</p>

<p>Aura Sphere is for Tyranitar, who threatens an OHKO with Stone Edge. Aura Sphere OHKOes him right back after a Nasty Plot, while also providing useful extra damage against Blissey, Metagross, Heatran, and other Flying resistances. While Air Slash is often the primary attack against these foes, Aura Sphere lets you damage finish off these Pokemon at higher percentages. Heal Bell is extremely useful against stall teams, allowing Togekiss to switch in and absorb status attacks, while winning against even Toxic Blissey 1-on-1 in tandem with Roost.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Substitute is an option if you use Aura Sphere. Using it on the switch allows you to scout out threats like Scarf Tyranitar and Pokemon with status moves. You won't beat Seismic Toss / Toxic Blissey with it, but it may be useful to you in order to provide some rudimentary protection from status prevention. Safeguard can do effectively the same job as Heal Bell, but instead of healing the rest of the team, it provides a safety net if Togekiss is forced to switch out, with the additional benefit of having more PP. The drawback is that it does not allow Togekiss to switch into status attacks. Lum Berry is an option that lets you beat Blissey 60% of the time. If you Nasty Plot on the switch, and then Nasty Plot again as she statuses you, a 2HKO is possible by using Air Slash, hoping for a flinch, followed by Aura Sphere.</p>

<p>The EV spread ensures an OHKO on Scizor with a +2 Air Slash after Stealth Rock. Scizor's Choice Band Bullet Punch only does 50-59%, preventing him from stopping Togekiss's sweep. If Scizor is not a concern, investing more in HP is recommended. Similarly, 220 Speed EVs are used to outrun Modest Heatran, and if you don't care about Heatran, you can lower that number to boost HP even further. If you invest at least 192 EVs in HP, Vaporeon will never 2HKO with Ice Beam even after Stealth Rock.</p>

<p>Togekiss's main concerns are Rotom-A and Zapdos. While this set does a little better against them than other sets, they are both still pretty big threats to a pain Togekiss and need to be dealt with beforehand.(I don't really like how the original sounded, but its fine if you want to keep it) Pursuit support is useful to Togekiss, support as it gets rid of Rotom while allowing a teammate of Togekiss's team to use a Rapid Spinner to, and clear away Stealth Rock. Heracross is probably the best choice since it isn't bothered by Will-O-wisp, but Metagross, Tyranitar, Scizor, and Snorlax all work as well. With Rotom out of the way, Rapid Spin support from Starmie, Forretress, or Tentacruel helps tremendously, as because without Stealth Rock, Togekiss can switch in and out repeatedly at will, giving it a good chance against Zapdos. Stealth Rock support will hurt Zapdos enough to make it unable to repeatedly switch into play. If you pack Tyranitar for Rotom, it also makes a great Zapdos check, boasting high Special Defense and super effective STAB Rock-type attacks.</p>

<p>Paralysis support helps tremendously as Togekiss isn't the fastest sweeper in the game. Pokemon like Jirachi, Gyarados, and Celebi can all provide useful paralysis support, as a slower opposing team is vulnerable to Air Slash flinches. Jirachi in particular is nice as it lures out Starmie, whom you can Pursuit.</p>

[SET]
name: Offensive Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Air Slash
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Roost / Aura Sphere
item: Life Orb
ability: Serene Grace
nature: Timid
evs: 192 HP / 236 Spe / 80 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set takes a more offensive approach to Nasty Plot Togekiss. While many Togekiss sets aim to exploit its impressive bulk, this set takes advantage of its massive Special Attack and decent Speed. Very few Pokemon will be able to switch in on this Togekiss safely once it secures a Nasty Plot boost; indeed, because every Pokemon in the OU tier is at the very least 2HKOed by a +2 Togekiss.</p>

<p>Nasty Plot allows Togekiss to boost its already high Special Attack to astronomical levels in just one turn of set up. Air Slash is Togekiss’ STAB move, and comes with a neat 60% flinch rate (thanks to Serene Grace). Fire Blast is used to hit Pokemon like Scizor and Forretress Metagross and Bronzong who resist Togekiss’ Air Slash(Scizor and Forretress don't resist Air Slash). It also sees additional use in its ability to OHKO 252 HP Zapdos and Rotom-A who resist all of Togekiss’ other moves and could otherwise set up on it. Roost is the best choice in the final slot for its ability to heal restore Togekiss' health, prolonging its sweep. However, Aura Sphere can be used instead to give Togekiss a means of hitting Tyranitar and Heatran, who will otherwise wall Togekiss.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Another interesting option for a move is Shadow Ball. With it, Togekiss is able to hit Rotom-A for high damage right off the bat. However, it has very little use beyond this, and so is often better off untouched.</p>

<p>The EV spread is customized to fit Togekiss’ needs. After a Nasty Plot boost, Togekiss’ Life Orb Fire Blast will do a minimum of 87% damage to 252 HP Rotom-A, while 252 HP Zapdos is hit for at least 80% damage. With Stealth Rock support, Togekiss is able to easily OHKO both of the aforementioned Pokemon. 236 Speed EVs and a Timid nature are used as they allow Togekiss to outspeed Adamant Lucario and proceed to smash incinerate it with Fire Blast for a OHKO(smash is fine, but I think Incinerate fits better, just an opinion). The remaining EVs are placed into HP, giving Togekiss an impressive HP stat of 311; when you combine this number and Togekiss’ already impressive defenses, you’ll find that you have both a sturdy and powerful sweeper on your hands.</p>

<p>One of the most important things to have when using this Togekiss set is Stealth Rock support. It allows Togekiss to achieve several notable OHKOes that it otherwise would not be able to, and so is a necessity. Swampert is a good choice for the role of a Stealth Rock user as he and Togekiss cover each other’s weaknesses very well. Metagross is another capable teammate for the same reason. Rapid Spin support can also be a big factor when using this Togekiss. It will lose 25% of its health every time it switches in, which means that it will be put at a disadvantage from the very first time it comes in, and will not be able to sweep quite as easily. For this reason, Rapid Spin support is extremely beneficial alongside this Togekiss; Life Orb Rapid Spin Starmie is a good choice for this. It can switch in easily on many attacks that would otherwise threaten Togekiss, such as Ice Beam, and proceed to either Spin or beat down the opposing team with its powerful STAB attacks. It is also a great offensive partner alongside Togekiss. While not at all necessary, Thunder Wave support is an interesting option to use alongside this set, as it allows Togekiss to outspeed and severely damage Pokemon who would otherwise be faster than it. Celebi is capable of using Thunder Wave well, and works decently on a defensive level alongside Togekiss.</p>

[SET]
name: Paraflinch
move 1: Air Slash
move 2: Thunder Wave / Body Slam
move 3: Aura Sphere / Nasty Plot / Substitute
move 4: Roost
item: Leftovers
nature: Bold
ability: Serene Grace
evs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 68 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Serene Grace is definitely not wasted on a Pokemon like Togekiss. A 60% flinch rate combined with paralysis support leaves the opposing Pokemon with only a 30% chance of doing anything at all. Combine this with Togekiss' general bulk and recovery in the form of Roost and it can pose a serious threat to an opponent's team.</p>

<p>Air Slash is mandatory for STAB and the ability to flinching on with
Togekiss. Thunder Wave is the most reliable option in the second slot to paralyze whoever your opponent might switch into Togekiss. Body Slam is an option so as to still have the ability to paralyze Pokemon immune to Thunder Wave. The third slot has numerous options to choose from. Aura Sphere is the primary choice to round out Togekiss' coverage, hitting Rock- and Steel-types particularly hard. Nasty Plot is available to help Togekiss sweep, although it should be noted that it's illegal with Body Slam. Substitute can also be used to make Togekiss even harder to take down, and keep it safe from status. The last moveslot is given to Roost to provide Togekiss with reliable recovery and the ability to shed its weaknesses to Electric, Ice, and Rock-type attacks.</p>


[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs and nature are chosen to give Togekiss enough physical bulk so that Choice Band Scizor's Bullet Punch will never 2HKO you, even after Stealth Rock is taken into account. The rest of the EVs are placed into Special Defense to add as much special bulk as possible. No Speed investment is used here as the set Togekiss should attempt to paralyze as much as possible before trying to sweep.</p>

<p>Pokemon who further can help Togekiss spread paralysis around an opponent's team are great candidates for teammates to for this Togekiss set. Jirachi carrying Iron Head and its own paralysis inducing attack immediately comes to mind. Jirachi can also switch into the Rock- and Ice-type attacks aimed at Togekiss with ease. Celebi and Blissey can spread paralysis around quite effectively, although it should be noted that they share much of their counters lists with Togekiss. Magnezone resists all of the attacks Togekiss is weak to, while Togekiss will gladly switch into the Ground-type attacks aimed at Magnezone. Magnezone will also happily remove the Steel-type Pokemon who resist Togekiss' Air Slash. Entry hazard support should definitely be considered with this Togekiss as well, since once the opponent is paralyzed and can't hit Togekiss, they will not want to stay in and sacrifice their Pokemon. Speaking of entry hazards, Rapid Spin support is worth considering to give Togekiss an easier time switching in. Forretress can perform this role admirably by being able to sponge up the attacks aimed at Togekiss and set up Spikes or Rapid Spin as they opponent switches out.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Air Slash
move 2: Aura Sphere
move 3: Fire Blast / Flamethrower
move 4: Trick
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Timid
ability: Serene Grace
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>A quick and easy fix to Togekiss' middling Speed is to slap a Choice Scarf on it. Many of the Pokemon who switch into Togekiss expecting to outspeed it and take it out are quickly worn down by repeated attacks and will be unpleasantly surprised to be flinched. Combine this with an arsenal of respectable attacks, good coverage, andSerene Grace, and Togekiss can be a dangerous threat to your opponent. Choice Scarf Togekiss can even make for a decent lead, shutting down many common leads right off the bat by flinching them to death with Air Slash. This set can also make for a very good lead, capable of shutting down many common leads in the OU metagame right off the bat thanks to its ever-annoying Air Slash and good defensive stats. It also has access to Trick, while enables it to cripple common Stealth Rock users such as Swampert and Metagross right off the bat.</p>

<p>Air Slash is chosen for its flinch rate and STAB, with Aura Sphere chosen for the excellent secondary coverage it provides. Fire Blast is recommended in the third slot to guarantee the 2HKO on standard Bronzong and the OHKO on standard Spiker Skarmory. Flamethrower is a viable alternative to Fire Blast for the added accuracy, but the lost OHKOs are a letdown. Trick is recommended in the final slot to cripple popular switch-ins to this Togekiss like Blissey, who will otherwise easily wall Togekiss. However, many other moves could be used as well, such as Tri Attack, Shadow Ball, and Hidden Power Ice.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Timid as a nature is used to let you outspeed Pokemon like Choice Scarf Heatran and base 130 Speed Pokemon, most notably Jolteon. Modest can be used if you don't plan on using Trick, but failing to outspeed the aforementioned Pokemon can be very detrimental to Togekiss' usefulness. The EV spread is chosen to give Togekiss 5 switches into Stealth Rock while maximizing its Speed and Special Attack.</p>

<p>As this Togekiss isn't nearly as slow as other sets, it can find its way into offensive teams. The biggest advantages Togekiss carries over other Choice Scarf users is its very respectable special bulk and ability to flinch its opponents, making it able to take down even threats that aren't 2HKOed by its attacks. Rapid Spin support is incredibly important to this Togekiss, as it will be switching in and out a lot. Forretress stands out from the crowd as an excellent Rapid Spinner to complement Togekiss, absorbing many of the physical attacks thrown at it and also providing invaluable entry hazard support.</p>

[SET]
name: Baton Pass
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Baton Pass
move 3: Air Slash / Encore
move 4: Roost / Wish
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
ability: Serene Grace
evs: 252 HP / 64 SpD / 192 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Togekiss is a member of the elite group of Pokemon to not only learn Nasty Plot, but also be able to Baton Pass it. The use of this set is very straightforward; set up a Nasty Plot or two, Air Slash and Roost as necessary, and then pass it to the appropriate recipient when something appears that Togekiss can't beat.</p>

<p>Nasty Plot and Baton Pass are the crux of this set. Air Slash is mandatory STAB and flinch abuse on Togekiss, and when backed by a Nasty Plot can do some serious damage to its opponents. Air Slash also prevents Togekiss from becoming Taunt bait. Encore is an option in the third slot, though, because it can force a switch and give you a free turn of setup. If you can cover for being Taunt bait, then it may prove useful for switching into something like Swampert's Earthquake. Roost rounds out the set in the last slot by keeping Togekiss healthy and able to pass at any point during a match. Wish can be used over Roost to support the team and the recipient better, but Togekiss will be worn down fast without the instant recovery in of Roost.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs are tailored to let Togekiss outspeed certain major threats while retaining as much of its bulk as possible. 192 Speed EVs allow Togekiss to outrun Jolly non-Choice Scarf Tyranitar, while 252 HP EVs give Togekiss respectable bulk. The remaining EVs are placed in Special Defense to let it set up more freely against special threats, but if you'd like Togekiss to be more threatening with its Air Slash, you can place them in Special Attack. Calm is preferred as a nature to boost its already excellent Special Defense stat.</p>

<p>This Togekiss greatly appreciates it if your team can keep Stealth Rock off the field. Its survivability and ability to pass Nasty Plot successfully take a serious hit if it has to lose 25% of its maximum HP when it switches in. A dual screen Azelf lead can be useful in keeping opposing Stealth Rock attempts away with Taunt, while throwing up screens to help Togekiss successfully pass either one or multiple boosts. Dual screens in general help Baton Passes(I'm not sure, but should this be "Passers"?) be more reliable, so users of those moves, such as Cresselia or Uxie, can be very helpful. As for recipients of the Nasty Plot boosts, it is recommended to use something that is not destroyed by common priority moves such as Bullet Punch. For this reason, Pokemon like Jirachi, Lucario, and Zapdos are good to consider. Jirachi and Lucario can run mixed sets with Iron Head and Close Combat respectively to punch through Blissey and other walls, and all three of them resist Bullet Punch. Zapdos deserves a special mention for having the highest Special Attack of these options while also having excellent bulk and a resistance to both Mach Punch and Bullet Punch. Both Lucario and Zapdos can also set up Agility to facilitate their sweep. A specially offensive Electivire may also be worth considering if you can Baton Pass to it on a turn where you might be expecting a slower Electric-type attack, as it'll absorb it to increase its Speed. If you are looking for a special powerhouse to send the boosts to, you might consider Porygon-Z, although its lackluster Speed and vulnerability to popular priority moves hinders its ability to sweep.</p>

[SET]
name: Encore Supporter
move 1: Encore
move 2: Wish / Roost
move 3: Air Slash
move 4: Aura Sphere / Thunder Wave / Body Slam
item: Leftovers
ability: Serene Grace
nature: Timid
evs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 236 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Togekiss' ability to support the team is amplified when it has Encore and Wish in its arsenal. The strategy is to come in on a set-up or support move and Encore it, likely forcing a switch. While Togekiss is out it can also Encore faster Pokémon, which requires lots of prediction but can have huge payoffs. These situations allow Togekiss to assist the team by setting up Wish and then proceeding to pass it to a counter for the current opposing Pokémon while not having to worry about being taken out. If one chooses not to Wish, it's possible to simply abuse the free turn to paralyze an incoming Pokémon with either Body Slam or Thunder Wave. It can also allow one of your sweepers to come in unharmed, set up, and cause havoc for your opponent. Roost is an option over Wish if none of Togekiss' teammates are Rapid Spinners, as Stealth Rock damage can really pile up on it. However, Roost greatly cuts down on Togekiss' ability to support the team, meaning that Wish is preferable for this particular set.</p>

<p>Air Slash and Aura Sphere allow for a neutral hit on every single Pokémon, barring Zapdos and Rotom. Air Slash, a powerful STAB attack, can also help Togekiss to keep some obtain recovery from Wish recovery for itself on slower Pokemon, due to the 60% flinch chance on slower Pokémon. Aura Sphere is not a requirement though as this Togekiss is not meant to sweep, reducing the need for type coverage. Body Slam or Thunder Wave can take its spot to paralyze incoming Pokémon, as mentioned earlier. The choice depends on whether the team has more of a problem with speedy Ghosts such as Gengar, or Pokémon immune to Electric-type moves such as Jolteon or Flygon.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EV spread on this set is a lot speedier compared to a majority of Togekiss' sets. A quick Togekiss allows for much easier Encoring, which is why so many Speed EVs are required. 236 Speed EVs with a Timid nature allows Togekiss to have 280 Speed, outspeeding an Adamant Lucario. This lets Togekiss come in on the unsuspecting Lucario as it Swords Dances, and Encore it (Lucario has ExtremeSpeed though...). It will then be forced to switch, or be 2HKOed with either of Togekiss' attacks. 252 HP EVs and 20 Defense EVs allow for its maximum defensive capabilities after reaching 280 Speed. This lets it come in and perform its strategy several times, due to its high survivability.</p>

<p>Entry hazard support is greatly appreciated for this set, as Togekiss will likely be forcing a lot of switches with Encore (and possibly a paralysis move). Swampert has great defensive synergy alongside Togekiss, and can also set up Stealth Rock. Specially Defensive Forretress makes for a great teammate for this set due to its ability to easily set up Spikes on many of the Pokemon this set cripples, such as Swords Dance Lucario and common Stealth Rock users. Forretress can also use Rapid Spin to great effect, which is helpful because of Togekiss’ Stealth Rock issues. In the same vein, Life Orb Rapid Spin Starmie is a good teammate, capable of dealing heavy damage to opposing Pokemon with its powerful STAB attacks as well as utilizing Rapid Spin to get rid of the opponent’s Stealth Rock.</p>

[Team Options]

<p>Togekiss is a Pokemon who will often force a lot of switches, and as such, entry hazard support helps a lot when using it. Swampert makes a great choice to supply Stealth Rock, as it and Togekiss cover each others’ weaknesses marvelously. Swampert is also one of the most reliable Stealth Rock users in OU, and is capable of consistently setting Stealth Rock up at almost any given time in a match. Metagross makes another good teammate for similar reasons. As far as Spikes support goes, Skarmory can make a good teammate; Taunt variants can set up Spikes consistently on Blissey who lack Flamethrower. This is important, as Blissey will often switch in on Togekiss to absorb her attacks. Skarmory can also set up Spikes against Tyranitar mildly well, who will often come in on Togekiss.</p>

<p>One of Togekiss’ biggest problems is its weakness to Stealth Rock. For a bulky, defensive Pokemon like Togekiss, losing a fourth of its health upon switching in is a huge handicap. For these reasons, Rapid Spin support can be very helpful in maintaining Togekiss’ health. Life Orb Rapid Spin Starmie makes a great offensive partner for Togekiss, capable of switching in on many Pokemon who could potentially threaten Togekiss, and proceeding to Spin away Stealth Rock. Starmie’s powerful STAB attacks also help wear down the opposing team to the point where Togekiss can potentially sweep. For more defensive Togekiss, Forretress makes a better partner, capable of not only using Rapid Spin, but also setting up Spikes, which is useful for reasons mentioned in the above paragraph.</p>

<p>Status is the bane of any Togekiss set; a well-timed Toxic or Thunder Wave will completely end Togekiss’ sweep, and make in near-useless for the remainder of the match. As such, having a solid status absorber can be helpful when using Togekiss. RestTalk Rotom-A can make a good choice to perform this role thanks to its amazing defensive typing, which includes a handy resistance to Electric-type moves. Poison Heal Breloom can also do well as long as it doesn't switch directly into status before its Toxic Orb has activated, and it has plenty of free chances to switch in on Blissey, who is a common switch-in to Togekiss. It should be noted, however, that Breloom doesn’t have the same defensive synergy with Togekiss that Rotom-H does.(what about Heal Bell?)</p>

[Optional Changes]

<p>Being a Normal-type, Togekiss’ movepool is quite vast. Togekiss can set up dual screens in order to better support its team. While a set like this is largely outclassed by other Pokemon, such as Bronzong and Uxie, Togekiss’ Normal- / Flying-typing can give it a unique niche as a dual screener; its Stealth Rock weakness is disappointing, however. Grass Knot is also a solid choice to wear down Ground- and Water-types, such as Hippowdon and Swampert. Unfortunately, it is often hard to find a place for it on a set. Yawn can be used to force switches, and considering that Togekiss is usually used with entry hazard support, you could find yourself racking up big damage against an opponent. Counter can be used to is useful for taking out physical attackers, although if you mispredict, the results could unfavorable. Tri Attack could be used as a secondary source of special STAB, but it gets poor neutral coverage with Air Slash(Should Serene Grace boosting Tri Attacks effects be mentioned here?).</p>

<p>For most Togekiss sets, capitalizing on its impressive bulk is a must. That’s why it is usually a good idea to maximize Togekiss’ HP. However, if you are using a more offensive set, like the Choice Scarf variant, then a simple 252 SpA / 252 Spe spread works just fine as well. 104 Speed EVs can be used to outrun Adamant Tyranitar, but you can just as easily use more Speed in order to beat Jolly non-Choice Scarf variants. Capitalizing on Togekiss’ awesome Special Attack is always a good idea, so if you find yourself with spare EVs, then dumping them in Special Attack won’t hurt.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Status seriously cripples basically all variants of Togekiss that lack Heal Bell. Blissey and Cresselia come to mind as the best choices for this, taking pittance from Togekiss's attacks and being able to heal off any damage taken while threatening paralysis or poison. Lanturn can also come in on Togekiss with its resistance to Air Slash and threaten it with Thunder Wave.</p>

<p>A few other defensive and offensive Pokemon alike stand out for being able to switch into Togekiss with relative impunity. Zapdos resists both Air Slash and Aura Sphere, and with its greater Speed stat can set up a Substitute before being hit by Thunder Wave. Jolteon or Electivire can come in on a predicted Air Slash or Thunder Wave and immediately threaten Togekiss. Rotom-A can also switch in safely as it is immune to Aura Sphere and resists Air Slash. All of these Pokemon have high-power, super effective attacks with which to dispose of Togekiss, or can threaten it with status. Bronzong also takes little damage from Air Slash and paralysis means its Gyro Ball will hit back harder.</p>


Wow that took longer then I thought, good job Snorlaxe and Rising Dusk.
 
I really dislike the Ev spreads of the Nasty Plot sets, at least the offensive one. The first one is EV'd to beat Modest Heatran, but a mere 17% of Heatran are Modest. The highest benchmark that set should go for is Jolly Tyranitar or those like defensive Zapdos and Celebi who linger around that point. 56 EVs is all Togekiss needs to outspeed defensive Rotom-A and CroCune. The rest can be divided between HP (max it) and Special Defense. I suppose this does not matter that much now that i think it over. The name kind of irks me too; I think Old School NP or Old School Nasty Sweeper woulde be better but w/e.

The offensive set does not need HP investment. The point is to be offensive, so max SpA should be a given. Plus a +2 air slash does 70% min to Vaporeon. You don't Have to take 2 Ice Beams. A Timid nature also is not necessary. Look at the Zapdos stats. Most either max Speed or can be outsped with a Modest nature. Fire Blast is fairly pointless as well with Tyranitar being so popular. With either nature and max SpA, defensive Rotom-a and Zapdos are 2HKOed by Air Slash at +2 after Stealth Rock. You can just flinch them. Skarm / Gross are both taken out with a little prior damage or a flinch from air slash if need be. You can then slash Fire Blast with Roost if need be. Max Spa and spe with both natured slash is the way to go.
 
In the Offensive NP set, you mention that Scizor and Forretress resist Air Slash. This is not true. They actually take neutral damage from them. This means that a +2 Air Slash can OHKO Scizor 50% of the time (100% with SR), and OHKOs (physically defensive) Forretress 100% of the time, making Fire Blast redundant. (with a Modest nature, Air Slash can OHKO Scizor everytime w/o SR)

Because of this, I think Aura Sphere should be unslashed and placed over Fire Blast. Modest could be slashed in as well, although it's not completely necessary.
 
On the Baton Pass set, you said that Air Slash is "mandatory", but you slashed it with Encore. I think you should remove the slash and just mention Encore in the analysis.
 

AccidentalGreed

Sweet and bitter as chocolate.
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
In the Offensive NP set, you mention that Scizor and Forretress resist Air Slash. This is not true. They actually take neutral damage from them. This means that a +2 Air Slash can OHKO Scizor 50% of the time (100% with SR), and OHKOs (physically defensive) Forretress 100% of the time, making Fire Blast redundant. (with a Modest nature, Air Slash can OHKO Scizor everytime w/o SR)

Because of this, I think Aura Sphere should be unslashed and placed over Fire Blast. Modest could be slashed in as well, although it's not completely necessary.
While your points seem plausible enough, togekiss NEEDS Fire Blast to gauruntee some 2hkos and ohkos against some certain threats. Fire Blast is a surefire KO against Scizor should it not have a Nasty Plot under it's belt, and obviously redresses Forrtress as well. After a Nasty Plot, Fire Blast assuming any offensive nature is a 2hko against Zapdos and Rotom-A, two pricks which Togekiss hates. Aura Sphere's fine, but since Rotom-A and Scizor are so common...
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top