Time to discuss a concoction named Physical Bulk Staraptor

[Bologo]

Alright, so this is going to be a thread to discuss the much neglected bulky Staraptor.

Now, I emphasize that this will be PHYSICALLY bulky.

With that, the key factor in his bulkiness is Intimidate. He can then abuse Featherdance and Roost, then just U-Turn out to come back later.

This is the set that I was thinking:

Staraptor @Leftovers
EVs: 228 HP/240 DEF/40 SPD
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
Ability: Intimidate

~ Featherdance
~ Roost
~ Brave Bird/Aerial Ace
~ U-Turn

Now, this is how this set would work - Staraptor comes out, and Featherdances. Now the opponent has -3 attack and does very little to Staraptor while he can easily Roost off the damage. Even just the intimidate screws up many opponents and causes them to switch.

If the opponent is going to switch as a result, since this set can force a lot of switches, then Staraptor can U-Turn. U-Turning while the opponent is switching means that they switch first and then you U-Turn whatever comes in and you can just bring in a counter with ease since they won't have to take an attack on the switch in.

With Roost, it can turn Rock attacks neutral which can sometimes be vital. IE. I'll admit, this set has trouble with Relicanth and Rampardos Head Smashes, and it is extremely hard to survive those. But with Roost, it can survive them perfectly fine.

Featherdance can be used on the switch to lower another opponent's attack putting them at -2, which will most likely force another switch if they're not a special attacker, or they're going to stay in and not be doing much damage at all.

Brave Bird is still a very good attack even with a bulky Staraptor because now Staraptor has a nice fast Roost to work with to recover the recoil. However, Aerial Ace can be used if Brave Bird is too much of a risk. Kind of like the Skarmory dilemma.

Now, the EVs. With these EVs, Staraptor gets a defense tier of 119.31 without intimidate in play, and 123.56 with it in play. 119.31 is alright, in the same tier as a 0/0 Skarmory, and with intimidate in play, just a little over a 252/252 Skarmory.

40 speed EVs and a +speed personality still let it beat out +speed base 85s which is quite handy because there's so damn many of them, while it still keeps that nice 276 attack even with no EVs.

Now for some calculations, I'll take these from the offensive threats page. If Roost actually changes anything, I'll include that:

Calculations

(With Intimidate factored in and 252 attack EVs +personality)

Tyranitar Stone Edge - 67.93% - 79.89%
(In the Middle of a Roost) - 33.70% - 39.67%
Crunch - 27.45% - 32.07%

Gyarados Stone Edge - 43.21% - 50.82%
(Middle of a Roost) - 21.47% - 25.27%
Ice Fang - 28.26% - 33.42%
(Roost) - 14.13% - 16.58%

Infernape Flare Blitz - 33.97% - 39.95%
Close Combat after a Roost (adds weak) - 66.85% - 78.80%

Rhyperior Stone Edge - 69.84% - 82.07%
(After Roost) - 34.78% - 40.76%

Garchomp Outrage - 39.67% - 46.47%

Weavile Ice Punch - 47.28% - 55.71%

Medicham Thunderpunch - 40.49% - 47.55%
(After Roost) - 20.11% - 23.64%

Heracross Megahorn - 19.29% - 22.55%
(Neutrality after Roost) - 38.32% - 45.11%

Rampardos Stone Edge - 78.80% - 92.66%
(Roost neutrality) - 47.01% - 55.16%
Heatran Explosion - 84.78% - 99.73% (just put in to show that actually CAN survive an explosion)

Alright, those are the basic things that can normally annihilate Staraptor thanks to super-high attack and super-effective attacks.

Now, the reason I factored Intimidate in there is because this guy is designed to come in several times (spinner recommended) and if something is going to switch from Intimidate, you can either Featherdance the switch-in, which will neuter them even more, or you can just U-Turn out as they switch anyway. There's also the option of Roosting during the switch-in. The main thing is screwing with things using Featherdance and scouting with U-Turn.

Roost is an incredible asset to a physically bulky Staraptor because it gets rid of his huge Ice/Rock weaknesses, while although adding the Fight weakness, fight attacks are mostly on Fight type pokemon who really shouldn't be staying in on Staraptor since they're gonna get destroyed by Brave Bird.

Now see, the most powerful Stone Edge in the game, from Rampardos doesn't even OHKO. This just shows how tough Staraptor actually is with Intimidate and very respectable HP. It takes hits better than Togekiss on the physical side with the same base HP and Intimidate. The 70 base defense compared to the 95 base defense isn't as much of a difference that Intimidate can't make up for.

Obviously, you do not want to send this out against special attackers unless they're stuck on Shadow Ball, because they WILL kill you.

Counters

- Special attackers obviously
- Metagross and the other Regis thanks to Clear Body
- Incorrect prediction obviously, if Roost isn't used at a cruicial point, to make a neutrality from a weakness, it will get the bird killed
- Steel types in general are pretty annoying but can still get neutered by Featherdance
There's probably a lot more, but I'll leave that to you guys for now, it's late as heck right now.

Heh, so let's discuss Physical Bulk Staraptor. If there's anyway I can polish the set a little more in any way. Hopefully I covered most of the important calculations, and I hope this can convince you to give it a try. :]

 

[Ambitions]

i wasnt expecting the calculations to be that good for that poke but they are no doubt impressive.

although it does withstand physical attacks well, this looks like the kind of physical wall that is just prolonging its own death, and not really accomplishing anything while it walls except scoring a bit of damage on a poke or two

 

[Phuquoph]

The damage calcs you chose are really weird. Can he survive two hits from Close Combat or Stone Edge from a Scarf Heracross? Why would you switch into Gyarados? He just gets a free Dragon Dance if you do. Most Infernape have Nasty Plot and Flamethrower, so you're not beating those. If it's a physical set, how much does Close Combat and Stone Edge do if he Swords Dances when you switch in?

Metagross is one of his best counters and you're doing nothing to him now. If you had Close Combat you could at least wear him down. Zapdos gets in even easier now you don't have Return. Skarmory and Bronzong won't really care about Featherdance since they're probably coming in to Spike/Stealth Rock/Hypnosis, etc. Ghosts are usually special attackers (Gengar, Rotom, etc.) or they're coming in to burn you with WoW (Dusknoir, Spiritomb). This seems like a real waste of Staraptor's power. If you really want Featherdance and Roost that badly, at least go with Brave Bird and Close Combat in the other two slots so he can do some damage.

 

[Marisa Kirisame]

Looks promising on paper... but is it actually effective?

 

[Kreaps]

I can see this set working with a Rapid Spinning Hitmontop.
You can U-Turn when Stealth Rocks are set, send out Hitmontop, factor in Intimidate again and Rapid Spin away. Just a random thought, Hitmontop also covers Staraptor's rock weakness and can bulk-up as they switch.

 

[MegaMewtwo]

Interesting. It's bulkier than you'd think. What's with these recent discussions of Pokemon filling roles they're obviously not built for? What's next? Wall Deoxys-A lol?

 

[X-Act]

If you're going for Featherdance and Roost, then I'd actually advocate using Pidgeot instead of this. It would at least use what Pidgeot can do, and it's reasonably bulky (even though no Intimidate means that Staraptor is still bulkier!). I've seen Tailwind Pidgeot with Featherdance do extremely well in 2vs2... although it probably won't do that well in 1vs1.

 

[Bologo]

The damage calcs you chose are really weird. Can he survive two hits from Close Combat or Stone Edge from a Scarf Heracross? Why would you switch into Gyarados? He just gets a free Dragon Dance if you do. Most Infernape have Nasty Plot and Flamethrower, so you're not beating those. If it's a physical set, how much does Close Combat and Stone Edge do if he Swords Dances when you switch in?

Metagross is one of his best counters and you're doing nothing to him now. If you had Close Combat you could at least wear him down. Zapdos gets in even easier now you don't have Return. Skarmory and Bronzong won't really care about Featherdance since they're probably coming in to Spike/Stealth Rock/Hypnosis, etc. Ghosts are usually special attackers (Gengar, Rotom, etc.) or they're coming in to burn you with WoW (Dusknoir, Spiritomb). This seems like a real waste of Staraptor's power. If you really want Featherdance and Roost that badly, at least go with Brave Bird and Close Combat in the other two slots so he can do some damage.

Close Combat and Stone Edge from Scarfcross are both always 3HKOs on Staraptor, so Heracross can't really do much to him.

I'll admit, Infernape is a big problem since Stone Edge and Close Combat are both 2HKOs after factoring in Intimidate. Close Combat is a OHKO if I'm faster than him and I Roost, which is another problem, but the good thing about that is that Roost allows Stone Edge to be a 3HKO after Swords Dance.

I thought about putting Close Combat, but IMO that takes away Staraptor's bulk by lowering the defenses. Well, I dunno, would Return be better over Brave Bird to avoid recoil?


@X-Act: Hmm, well Pidgeot does have a better supporting movepool, but I like the fact that Staraptor still at least has that 276 attack even with no EVs to still do some kind of damage with U-Turn while still being bulky. If it was 2v2, I'd definitely choose Pidgeot though.

 

[Mekkah]

It doesn't feel like a Staraptor, man. It doesn't do much damage at all, but it's not very supreme at tanking at all and it requires Spikes or something to make up for that, or you'll just lose the overall picture.

 

[Phuquoph]

The defense drops from Close Combat aren't really an issue when you consider what you'll be using it against. Tyranitar gets OHKOed and is slower, so he can't touch you. Or you'll be hitting Metagross/Bronzong/Skarmory as they switch in, then getting the hell out. I guess Return would be ok, but then you're helpless against Ghosts and Lucario gets in for free, and won't care about Featherdance if he's only got special attacks. If you're sticking with Roost/Featherdance/U-Turn then I'd have Brave Bird or Return in the last slot. Aerial Ace is just too weak.

 

[xBLUEx]

this is something very differnent. in the sense of that its a bulky one, the moveset and EV's are nice. i really don't think this would do much damage in a standard battle.

 

[Bluekikatana]

I could see toxic doing more damage on that thing over U-Turn, while it out lives its opponents through feather dance/roost. If anything the guts Pokemon that take advantage of the toxic will also fear the brave bird.

 

[CZ]

Or you can just stick to the good old sweeping Straptor. Intimidate what you switch in on, and then hit something hard (requires prediction) and switch out. IMO, Staraptor is best used as a Choice Bander or a Choice Scarfer. U-Turning to a counter is so sweet its hard to pass up.

 

[sandman]

Gyarados and Tyranitar are just going to use DD and then you are screwed plus, looking at the damage clacs it doesn't look like you even have time to use feather dance so i might get rid of that and replace it with something like toxic.

 

[Suburvia]

Also, many of these opponents are faster aside from T-Tar, Rhyperior, Rampardos, and Gyarados before a DD. The Roost neutrality doesn't mean anything if you're against, say, ScarfCross or Infernape. Medicham, as well, since it's almost always Scarfed.

Also, why no Heracross Stone Edge calcs? What? Staraptor gets neutered by it? Oh, how sad =[

Anyways, off of the assholishness. I like the idea, but this doesn't get anywhere near Staraptor's full potential as a Sweeper, and there are other, bulkier Intimidaters to play with. Namely, Gyarados (but he lacks all of this sets moves) and Salamence, who can Roost, Wish, or still deal shitloads of damage with Draco Meteors and such. Honestly, I think you're best off to just run a Sweeping Staraptor- They'll be surprsied to see this set, but once they catch on, it becomes fairly useless aside from U-Turning, which CBStar does better, as does Scizor, or even Azelf.

(Congrats on 1000 posts, BTW!)

 

[Bourbon]

Wow, that is actually a really entertaining set. If Shoddy had the "items" tab in OS X I would try it out.

 

[Twilight :)]

Gyarados and Tyranitar are just going to use DD and then you are screwed plus, looking at the damage clacs it doesn't look like you even have time to use feather dance so i might get rid of that and replace it with something like toxic.

Featherdance with always beat Dragon Dance head to head. All they will be getting is speed which doesn't really matter if they only carry physical attacks.

The statistics look good as presented, but I would have to see it in action before I grant it my opinion of being good.

It is decently offensive seeing as some of the things you will be coming in on are weaking to a STAB'd Flying type attack. If not, you can just cripple them and U-Turn away.

Again, it looks nice on paper but I want to see it play. Unfortunatley I don't have the time as I am currently building a new team of my own. Maybe you can find me on MSN later and show it to me in a battle on Shoddy.

 

[travisurfer]

I just used a similar set on shoddy. Switched into a t-tar and beat it with featherdance and u-turn.

 

[sandman]

Featherdance with always beat Dragon Dance head to head. All they will be getting is speed which doesn't really matter if they only carry physical attacks.

yeah but staraptor has to switch into ttar to possibly take a stone edge that will do at most 79%. Staraptor will have to roost next turn in order to survive and thats when ttar can taunt it, plus the first thing most gyarados do when they come in is taunt and then your screwd, so you can keep feather dance but this should not be walling those two.

 

[Twilight :)]

yeah but staraptor has to switch into ttar to possibly take a stone edge that will do at most 79%. Staraptor will have to roost next turn in order to survive and thats when ttar can taunt it, plus the first thing most gyarados do when they come in is taunt and then your screwd, so you can keep feather dance but this should not be walling those two.

As a lot of Bologo's sets are, you have to imagine that this would take at least a bit of prediction. If you come in on an Earthquake, and then Featherdance, they're at a -3 Attack Stat, and need three Dragon Dances to get back to a regular attack stat, allowing you to set up or take it out in the process if the obvious act of switching the Tyranitar out is not made.

Now, if you opponent Dragon Dances on the switch, they will still be at their normal attack stat due to Intimidate. You can now take 67.93% - 79.89% from a Stone Edge and then Featherdance to put Tyranitar at a -2 Attack Stat. You just assisted your team and you can roost the damage off later.

You really shouldn't be coming on on Dragon Dances though. If you come in on a Taunt, just U-Turn out of there to a Tyranitar counter. The only thing that is bad is if they catch you with a Stone Edge or Dragon Dance on the switch.

 

[blastoiselover100]

^I agree. The only problem with this is that you have to keep a Rapid Spinner handy for all of these switches.

 

[sandman]

Now, if you opponent Dragon Dances on the switch, they will still be at their normal attack stat due to Intimidate. You can now take 67.93% - 79.89% from a Stone Edge and then Featherdance to put Tyranitar at a -2 Attack Stat. You just assisted your team and you can roost the damage off later.

Ok, i'm not trying to say this set is bad, i just don't think it should wall things ttar since above what you have, after ttar gets a DD and staraptor switches in, ttar hits it with Stone edge and staraptor feather dances it, staraptor now has to switch out because even with -2 at, tyranitar can ko staraptor after doing damage to it previously or if you have to, switch in some one else. I'm not trying to say this set is bad, i just think calculations for stuff that carry a stabbed stone edge is pointless except for showing off how sturdy the set it. Now i take back my last post on feather dance because feather dance plus U-Turn sounds like a cool combo and maybe even be able to help belly drummers set up.

 

[nardd]

I see this thread as more of an advertisement for staraptor. Rather than introducing a game-breaking new set like many people here have done, bologo's kind of showing us another side of this emo bird- instead of a glass cannon normal type, this poke can take a few hits if ev'ed correctly. Although it does sacrifice a bit of bite, maybe you could give it a bit more attack to make it more tank-like? It'd be cool to center a team around this guy.

 

[Dragontamer]

Looking at the set, speed is absolutely necessary and probably should go with a +Speed nature.

+Speed and +Defense Crobat is a norm for me (hypnosis + taunt + roost. However, this was designed in the August/September Metagame when Stealth Rocks / Hypnosis Bronzong and Stealth Rocks Swampert were the #1 leads), and with Staraptor having intimidate that should make it slightly more bulky from the physical side.

Unfortunately, Adamant 252 T-Tar bearly outspeeds Jolly Staraptor.

I don't think this Staraptor should be comming into T-Tars... Sub / Dance T-Tar will screw him. Sub on the switch... it takes an intimidate but you can't featherdance it.

 

[Pneuma]

I really like the fact that it's a new concept and Featherdance is 100% accurate.
Like DT, I'm worried you won't be outrunning enough to get in that necessary Feather to stop from getting pounded.