Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v3

[Red Raven]

chi-yu took months to eradicate from the tier.

To be fair, for Chi Yu specifically, just about everyone wanted it banned. THe problem was that was during the first suspect of tera and apparently no bans can happen until the suspect was over so we had to suffer thru that torture for weeks until that was over with

 

[Swagodile]

The main thing making Veil so good is that Alolan Ninetales itself got better with Snow.

Alolan Ninetales now starts with its Defense multiplied by 1.5. Then once Veil goes up, that's another 1.5, so 2.25x Defense.

This makes Alolan Ninetales itself harder to deal with than in the past, and this also makes it easier for it to set Aurora Veil multiple times in a game.

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

It would be a x2.25 boost, not triple. But your point still stands.

veil halves all incoming damage, which effectively means it doubles both defenses, so it is triple. they got the math wrong but the result right

 

[Carl_the_turtle]

what if instead of banning ogerpon-hearthflame, they banned saying "ogerpon-hearthflame" or "firepon" in the thread so everyone had to make daddybuzzwole-esque nicknames for it when discussing its merits
Jokes aside, I want to ask a question for those who believe that at least one Ogerpon form is broken: should ogerpon formes count as pokemon broken by tera, as it is a considerably important factor that is pushing at least one of them over the edge, or should they be considered broken by their own merits due to their unique interaction with terastallization? I haven't seen much discussion over which one is truly to blame for how dominant some of them are currently.

 

[yomaalt]

what if instead of banning ogerpon-hearthflame, they banned saying "ogerpon-hearthflame" or "firepon" in the thread so everyone had to make daddybuzzwole-esque nicknames for it when discussing its merits
Jokes aside, I want to ask a question for those who believe that at least one Ogerpon form is broken: should ogerpon formes count as pokemon broken by tera, as it is a considerably important factor that is pushing at least one of them over the edge, or should they be considered broken by their own merits due to their unique interaction with terastallization? I haven't seen much discussion over which one is truly to blame for how dominant some of them are currently.

I believe ogerpon-howzawassitwhoknow? should be tiered independently as it's own mon, from the other forms, and same as well with the other ogerpon forms if they are to be tiered. Most of the time, tera'ing a firepon is only a measure you use for a kill on something that'd survive, as mold breaker is probably one of the best abilities it could've ever asked for. Nearly the same goes with the other ogerpon forms, as Ogerpon-CanYouEatACrit? most of the time rather just horn leech to abuse sturdy and the defense boost is only useful for like, surviving a gambit sucker if you're in range. Ogerpon-WellfareSubsidies would typically rather water absorb to fuck over waters, but it's sp.def boost can be useful, as it allows it to eat wake's draco, then synthesis the damage off. It's an somewhat interesting case, but I feel it's moreso the mons themselves that should be looked at, then their tera interaction, then tera itself. (Only talking about ogerpon in this case. Gambit or such should be tera interaction, tera itself, gambit.)

 

[skippergamez]

I believe ogerpon-howzawassitwhoknow? should be tiered independently as it's own mon, from the other forms, and same as well with the other ogerpon forms if they are to be tiered.

I mean they would technically just ban the Hearthflame mask

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

I mean they would technically just ban the Hearthflame mask

that's how they did things with mega stones, but it doesn't really gel well with modern tiering policy because other mons can technically hold the item and it doesn't break them. sure, no one is going to hold it, we don't actually lose out on anything by banning the item, but nowadays they just directly ban the forms to be more in line with policy. i can still go into teambuilder and load up 6 mons with rusted shield even though zama-c is banned, and even though everyone would laugh at me, including myself, the validator would still let me through (although, if it had eyes, it would probably roll them). same thing will happen with ogerpon-hereditaryisbetterthanmidsommar, the form will be banned instead of the item

 

[Spheal boi]

that's how they did things with mega stones, but it doesn't really gel well with modern tiering policy because other mons can technically hold the item and it doesn't break them. sure, no one is going to hold it, we don't actually lose out on anything by banning the item, but nowadays they just directly ban the forms to be more in line with policy. i can still go into teambuilder and load up 6 mons with rusted shield even though zama-c is banned. same thing will happen with ogerpon-hereditaryisbetterthanmidsommar, the form will be banned instead of the item

Of course is not gonna do anything, but at this point is better banning the forms as what happened with Mega Gengar for example or all the others, since then would be just trolling or avoiding weird items as what happened with the mails for Trick and Switcheroo if it works given to a mon which can't use it at all, but even if I would honestly see, if reintroduced, a Bastiodon with a Rusted Shield on its back both to have a perfect defense and being able to protect its behind since the Dex says that it's vulnerable there

 

[FuecocoBoi]

I think the most crazy part of Ogrepon-Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia is the variety of sets it can run. Ogerpon-Hemorrhoidectomy can go on the offensive with moves like Horn Leech, Ivy Cudgel, Zen Headbutt, Swords Dance, Brick Break, and more. If you want to go on the stall side, Ogrepon-Hexachloroethane has stuff like Synthiys, SubSeed, Spiky Sheild, and Rest. Last but not least, Ogerpon-Hyperbolically can go support pivot with stuff like Spikes, Knock Off, Taunt, and Encore.

 

[Makel]

Been playing for a while, and IMO:

- Ttar fits better than ever thanks to disabling weather and freely chip common archetypes. It disables snow/rain/sun and is strong and durable enough to consistently do so, while keeping in check some threats of OU (Ursaluna, Moth, some slow variants of Gambit, the slow bros, and so on), and pokemon that can check it don't like being knocked off. Paired with G-Weezing, which completely walls Tusk, creates a very consistent way of preventing and removing Weather and Screens/Hazards. Also been using roar variants and they work fine since there are so many set up sweepers now.

Grass tera allows you to beat or cripple most Ogerpon Variants, Wake, or rain sweepers in case you need a backbone against those teams.

- Ogerpon-Hearthflame is a tad too strong for how easy it can set up, specially in sun. The other forms are not as strong atm.

- Ursaluna atm is balanced because the low spd is exploitable, but I get that it may be frustrating to play against when you don't have a dedicated wall for it while also playing mindgames with Bloodmoon and Moonlight; also people underestimate Vacuum Waves damage. However, non CM variants lose against strong special attackers, Empoleon, Clefable and so on.

- Tail Glow manaphy is fine, but Acid Armor + Take Heart variants often need 1 or 2 turns of set up to be unkillable specially with tera.

- People are sleeping on Scale Shot Regidrago and G-Weezing though

 

[FuecocoBoi]

Been playing for a while, and IMO:

- Ttar fits better than ever thanks to disabling weather and freely chip common archetypes. It disables snow/rain/sun and is strong and durable enough to consistently do so, while keeping in check some threats of OU (Ursaluna, Moth, some slow variants of Gambit, the slow bros, and so on), and pokemon that can check it don't like being knocked off.

Grass tera allows you to beat or cripple most Ogerpon Variants, Wake, or rain sweepers in case you need a backbone against those teams. Paired with G-Weezing, which completely walls Tusk, creates a very consistent way of preventing and removing Weather and Screens/Hazards. Also been using roar variants and they work fine since there are so many set up sweepers now.

- Ogerpon-Heartflame is a tad too strong for how easy it can set up, specially in sun. The other forms are not as strong atm.

- Ursaluna atm is balanced because the low spd is exploitable, but I get that it may be frustrating to play against when you don't have a dedicated wall for it while also playing mindgames with Bloodmoon and Moonlight; also people underestimate Vacuum Waves damage. However, non CM variants lose against strong special attackers, Empoleon, Clefable and so on.

- Tail Glow manaphy is fine, but Acid Armor + Take Heart variants often need 1 or 2 turns of set up to be unkillable specially with tera.

- People are sleeping on Scale Shot Regidrago and galar wheezing though

yo what’s ogerpon-heart flame is there a 5th mask or something?

 

[Makel]

yo what’s ogerpon-heart flame is there a 5th mask or something?

I messed up the name of the fire one honestly didn't even notice its true name

 

[Bugboy]

Honestly veil + kingambit/manaphy is about as bad as bax was.

I’m open to kingambit and manaphy joining bax in ubers, but I think there’s definitely something to say about how busted screens are in this format.

 

[yomaalt]

I think the most crazy part of Ogrepon-Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia is the variety of sets it can run. Ogerpon-Hemorrhoidectomy can go on the offensive with moves like Horn Leech, Ivy Cudgel, Zen Headbutt, Swords Dance, Brick Break, and more. If you want to go on the stall side, Ogrepon-Hexachloroethane has stuff like Synthiys, SubSeed, Spiky Sheild, and Rest. Last but not least, Ogerpon-Hyperbolically can go support pivot with stuff like Spikes, Knock Off, Taunt, and Encore.

Honestly I think the only "breaking" factor of Ogerpon-HeavensAbove would be the offensive pressure it applies with SD + Fire Ivy + Mold Breaker, as when it comes to more utility sets, Ogerpon-WearyWanderer and Ogerpon-CarefulSilence are probably more suited to the task, as water absorb and sturdy + horn leech are prolly better abilities than mold breaker. If only Ogerpon-HapaxLegomenon had defog.....

(For reference to anyone ready this who's confused, any Ogerpon-(word(s) that start with H) means heartflame/firepon, Ogerpon-W.... means wellspring/waterpon, Ogerpon-C...... means cornerstone/rockpon, and plainpon/pon/ogerpon/grasspon is well, base.)

 

[arnimacarni]

Ohh you mean Ogerpon-Hypothetically

Ogerpon-Hypochondria bc I feel sick just by seeing it in OU

To elaborate beyond the oneliner, I have been enjoying Manaphy greatly in all teams I've been building. Acid Armor + Take Heart is just the best.

I've been using Agility Empoleon so much, such a joy to use as it was my first starter. It completely shuts down Defog and Sticky Web, Idk if anyone cares to share their Empoleon sets to see what way theyre going with it

I've been playing BO and Stall-ish structures pretty much exclusively for all my short lived and disappointing competitive career, but with this DLC HO feels better than ever and not in an overbearing fashion. Running Glimmora as a dedicated suicide lead makes me puke inside but it works so fine in combination with Empoleon

Also interested in what you guys feel about Gliscor? I've been trying different sets but I'm not completely sold on any, so far I've noticed Spikes fits better than SR on it for me, but Idk where to go from there

 

[FuecocoBoi]

Ogerpon-Hypochondria bc I feel sick just by seeing it in OU

To elaborate beyond the oneliner, I have been enjoying Manaphy greatly in all teams I've been building. Acid Armor + Take Heart is just the best.

I've been using Agility Empoleon so much, such a joy to use as it was my first starter. It completely shuts down Defog and Sticky Web, Idk if anyone cares to share their Empoleon sets to see what way theyre going with it

I've been playing BO and Stall-ish structures pretty much exclusively for all my short lived and disappointing competitive career, but with this DLC HO feels better than ever and not in an overbearing fashion. Running Glimmora as a dedicated suicide lead makes me puke inside but it works so fine in combination with Empoleon

Also interested in what you guys feel about Gliscor? I've been trying different sets but I'm not completely sold on any, so far I've noticed Spikes fits better than SR on it for me, but Idk where to go from there

I agree, but if you have Hamoroot, use SR
I feel that Gliscor has major 4MSS, I use EQ+Tox+Protect+Rocks, which is completely walled by Levitate or Flying, if it had one more move I could run Crabhammer or something

 

[Bakugames]

im gonna be the one ruining the fun here but can we please just use ogrepon-h or firepon or hearthpon instead of random words. its messing me up + stopped being funny the second time

 

[BijouMode]

im gonna be the one ruining the fun here but can we please just use ogrepon-h or firepon or hearthpon instead of random words. its messing me up + stopped being funny the second time

You mean Ogerpon-Heterochromatic?

 

[Bakugames]

You mean Ogerpon-Heterochromatic?

pokemon fans dont run an unfunny joke to the ground challenge: impossible

but also serious man I got a reading disability. having half of your sentence be an extremely long random word/sentence is fucking me up

 

[BijouMode]

pokemon fans dont run an unfunny joke to the ground challenge: impossible

but also serious man I got a reading disability. having half of your sentence be an extremely long random word/sentence is fucking me up

Cool, my bad. (btw the challenge is impossible)

 

[MattC (Banned)]

I would like to present to you all an OU Parody to tip the scales of whatever conversations happening. Enjoy :)

The OU tier is a marvelous spectacle. Scientists have looked into this OU tier and have made some fascinating discoveries

Scientist during interview: "The OU tier is a rather interesting place. If you know pokemon (which I'm sure everyone does), this is essentially competitive play with said pokemon on a server called Pokemon Showdown which is filled with tens of thousands of individuals every day."

They also believe that every day, an OU player will try and claim a title of "#1 on the ladder". The title fluctuates every single day -- with players defending or claiming that title. Many believe that the grind is incredibly long -- constantly differing every day. Because of this, scientists have made the claim that Pokemon players do not take showers; or even go outside. However, there are claims that this has been proven false -- with evidence such as the infamous "Smogon Premier League". This is a yearly tournament where some of the best pokemon players from every region compete in a monthly series for a cash prize, and the title of "SPL Champion". In these tournaments, matches must be played at a specified date, recorded, and sent to the hosts of the tournament. But no matter what claims scientists and people have said, one thing has been proven. The OU Player base -- or the group of individuals that play OU -- even have a council of about 7 people that controls everything that the people have to work with. They determine what is and isn't sent to Ubers -- a tier where you use all the overpowered legendaries that are available in a playthrough of the game.

Scientist during interview: "A pokemon sent to Ubers is a message to the OU playerbase. That even if you can obtain it normally and it may seem normal, the potential for it to be not fun to play against is always a possibility."

Most recently there has been a pokemon called Baxcalibur that has been banned, and scientists have put together sparce footage of what the playerbase of OU thinks of it.

OU Player #1: "This pokemon is impossible to deal with. It would be preposterous to keep it in the tier."

OU Player #2: "BAN BAN BAN. BAN BAN. BAN BAN BAN. BAN"

OU Player #3: "I don't think it's so bad. We have Corviknight -- a very physically bulky Pokemon that resists Dragon and is immune to Ground. It doesn't even take that much from Icicle Spear see?
+2 252 Atk Baxcalibur Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 315-375 (78.7 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Its a healthy presence and shouldn't be banned."

At times like these, almost like a superhero, the people call on the OU Council to solve this issue. And within a day, Baxcalibur has been banished to the Ubers tier, and peace was restored to the tier.

The balance of the OU tier is a collective effort for everyone to contribute to. The people are the ones that solve things (such as finding the unfun things to play against) and the council is the ones to get rid of the unfun things -- creating a ripple down effect for the lower tiers from OU as well. But that, is for another day.

Hide

Shits so good they gon put me on National Geographic

 

[fnoonan15]

The Manaphy meta is evolving

 

[MattC (Banned)]

im gonna be the one ruining the fun here but can we please just use ogrepon-h or firepon or hearthpon instead of random words. its messing me up + stopped being funny the second time

CLEARLY it's name is Ogerpon-potentiallypotentpossibility and nothing else

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

im gonna be the one ruining the fun here but can we please just use ogrepon-h or firepon or hearthpon instead of random words. its messing me up + stopped being funny the second time

well, there's one foolproof way to get everyone to stop talking about it for good, but that's up to the council
(please ban her soon, guys, i'm running out of names)

The Manaphy meta is evolving
View attachment 553640

was this fucking magic room scarf? that's actually gigabrain tech

 

[sims796]

I've had some success at checking it with Sneasler, I wish Meowscarada was better at stopping Heatpon.