Straw? Wood? Nah, I want bricks for my house. OU Stall.

[maxbarnyard]

This my second RMT post and I'm hoping the community can give me some good feedback on it. This is also my first attempt at a stall team, even if it is a fairly generic one. As I set out to make this team, most of the team members just fell into place, as the defensive core, which makes up most of the team, fits together naturally well.

That said, let's look at the team, shall we?

update 6/19: after a week and a half of rating, I have decided to scrap Snorlax in favor of Jirachi, and changed Rotom-A

Every stall team loves sandstorm, and though Tyranitar is an excellent candidate, I chose Hippowdon due to its excellent bulk and lack of a 4x weakness, especially one to Fighting moves.

Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
Impish: 252 HP, 168 Def, 88 SpD
Earthquake
Stealth Rock
Slack Off
Roar

Hippowdon is bulky enough to get rocks up and help for the rest of the match, and naturally has high enough Attack to make use of STAB EQ without EV investment. Roar to phaze and rack up entry hazard damage, and it is better than Ice Fang since I already have Ice moves on Tentacruel and Jirachi. With the given EVs this guy can survive a +2 Lucario's Close Combat and OHKO with EQ, so I can switch Hippo in on the SD and KO next turn. Alternatively, can OHKO with Jirachi's Fire Punch. Doesn't like to go swimming, so we come to...

Tentacruel (M) @ Leftovers
Calm: 252 HP, 120 Def, 136 SpD
Liquid Ooze
Surf
Ice Beam
Toxic Spikes
Rapid Spin

Stall teams also love their toxic poison, and Tentacruel raised his tentacle as the best choice. Between good speed, great special bulk, the ability to absorb enemy toxic spikes, the ability to spin hazards away, and being possibly the best OU Infernape counter with Latias gone, NOT choosing the beaked jellyfish seemed like a crime. May run HP Electric over Ice beam, but I really wanted another Ice attack, and it seemed worthwhile. Hates Ground attacks, which leads us to...

Skarmory (M) @ Shed Shell/Leftovers (not sure yet)
Impish: 252 HP, 64 Atk, 176 Def, 16 Spe
Keen Eye
Brave Bird
Roost
Spikes
Whirlwind

Stall and Skarmory, two great tastes that taste great together (have since GSC). The three so far cover each other very well with weaknesses, as electric attacks aimed at Skarm and Tentacruel go to Hippowdon, water attacks at hippowdon and fires aimed at skarm go to 'cruel, and we already addressed ground attacks. Between these three, I should be able to get up a load of entry hazards and be able to start stalling. EVs and moveset are standard, and I'd love any thoughts on the choice between Shed Shell and Leftovers, Skarmory will be getting recovery with Roost either way. As impregnable as Skarmory is to physical assaults, it can't stand special onslaughts, so we naturally need...

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Bold: 252 HP, 4 Spe, 252 Def
Natural Cure
Wish
Protect
Heal Bell
Seismic Toss

You didn't really expect me to try to make a successful stall team without the pink, feathered egg, did you? Though I was initially not planning to run Wish (since I plan on using this in-game over WiFi and didn't feel right hacking the move on), the Wishpassing would be exceptional, and currently Tentacruel has no way to heal itself since its Leftys only offsets the sandstorm damage. I knew that I wanted a way to heal status, and since Aromatherapy is illegal with Wish, I chose Heal Bell (since it's a HGSS tutor move). The last move is Seismic Toss so as not to be complete Taunt bait, and to stall and kill any special attacker ballsy enough to stay in. Now we need a spinblocker so, we choose...

Rotom-H @ Leftovers
Bold: 252 HP, 120 Def, 136 SpD
Rest
Sleep Talk
Thunderbolt
Will-O-Wisp

After a lot of advisement, I've decided to go with a RestTalk set for Rotom-A and switch from Rotom-C to -H to bluff Overheat to any Fire-weak pokes, particularly Forretress. Additionally, Rotom-H with this set won't fall to Forretress' Payback and will instead stall it out with RestTalk and Thunderbolt (plus any burn damage would never be unwelcome in there, especially facing Payback). This guy is the team's necessary spinblocker, and STAB Thunderbolt is always welcome, especially if for some reason I'm in a sticky situation against an annoying Gyarados (though obviously it probably wouldn't be the best idea to send Rotom-H in against a boosted DDGyara). Let me know what you think, especially any recommended alternative EV/Nature spreads.

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Jolly: 252 Atk, 4 HP, 252 Spe
Iron Head
Ice Punch
Fire Punch
Trick

There was a lot of debate between Ice Punch and ThunderPunch, but in the end Ice Punch had more utility, seeing as the only thing ThunderPunch is really needed for is Gyarados, who is stopped cold by the rest of the team (Tentacruel if it lacks EQ, Skarmory or Rotom-H otherwise), and Ice Punch is always welcome for Flygon, Gliscor, Salamence (if it doesn't get bumped) etc. This little guy is necessary to for two reasons: 1) Since this team is shifting towards heavy stall, I needed a way to deal with any opponents who think they can cripple a member of my team by tricking a choice item on, so Jirachi was chosen as a way to absorb the Trick, and 2) Previously this team was seriously threatened by last pokemon boosters. However, with this guy I can Trick the opponent a scarf locking them onto one move, hopefully a boosting move, giving me a much easier endgame.

Though boosters can be phazed by Skarmory and maybe Hippowdon, physical boosters such as SD Lucario and Scizor and DD Tyranitar and Salamence will likely be troublesome if Jirachi has been KO'd, so any thoughts on countering very offensive teams would be greatly appreciated. I've tried to mold the team to nullify these threats, but that's why I'm asking for some extra eyes from the wonderful Smogon community. Trick users are taken care of by Jirachi, as a correct prediction locks them into Trick so I force them out, and in that case I'll either attack or Trick depending on what I expect them to send in.

Thanks, folks, and I hope you all are enjoying the start of a beautiful summer!

Just a notices, I'm still undecided between Leftovers and Shed Shell for Skarmory, and I'm leaning towards Shed Shell since I don't want to risk losing Skarm to Magnezone. Tell me what you guys think. Thanks again!

 

[Euphonos]

At Snorlax, you can try Return/Body Slam and Fire Punch over Crunch and Earthquake. Only Heatran can wall this combination, but don't worry, Tentacruel's there to help you.

More than that, a solid team, 'nuff said. =D

 

[comatthew6]

put on pain split on your rotom because your team focuses on toxic spikes, so if tentacruel already put two layers up, tyranitar or whatever gets poisoned on the switch. Really, will-o-wisp is only there for scizor but it doesn't seem like it'll give you much trouble with all of the shuffling/phazing your team can do. Pretty good stall team, all in all.

 

[ginganinja]

O.K not a bad team, first I suggest Leftovers over Tenacruel, simply because a tricker can cripple Tentacruel by stealing its black sludge and the tricker can then trick it back onto another member of the team (eg Blissey) further weakening your team.

Next up I suggest the sleep talk set for Rotom, with a Cleric sleep is not so much an issue for your team and Rotom really enjoys better ecovery than pain split.

Lastly you can do little to stop last pokemon stat ups such as CroCune or CurseTar (they are rare but they can screw you over). I suggest a Scarf Jirachi with trick to deal with these pokemon. Jirachi also can give you insurance vs taunt pokemon such as Gliscor (Ice Punch) and Gyarados (Thunderbolt/Punch)

Have a Nice Day!

 

[maxbarnyard]

Thank you all for the suggestions! I think that for now I'm going to try to do a test run with Pain Split on Rotom, since with it only Tentacruel is missing a reliable healing move, making the team very solid.

@Clarion: I like your suggestion, and I'll likely do a test run with Return/Fire Punch on Snorlax, since if I have two layers of T-Spikes with all the other entry hazards, I should be able to stall out Tyranitar to poison. I agree that Tentacruel would theoretically be able to rip Heatran a new one, but in practice I may end up getting Exploded on or Earth Powered to death, so I'm still a bit wary of not running Earthquake. What might you recommend to that end?

@comatthew6: I already mentioned that I'm going to try Pain Split, but I'm still a mite worried about physical set-up sweepers that are immune to Toxic Spikes, namely Lucario, Salamence (for now at least), Gyarados, and SD Scizor, all of which Will-O-Wisp would cripple. Additionally, I'd be afraid to switch Blissey in against any of them to try for a T-Wave, which is currently the only status I can hit them with. Thoughts?

@ginganinja: Thank you for pointing out the flaw with Black Sludge, I hadn't thought of it getting tricked back to something else that wouldn't want it, so I think I'll try a test run with Black Sludge to see the likelihood of that before I finalize anything. Additionally, I like the idea of reliable recovery on Rotom, but as we all know, Rotom-A really wants more moveslots, and as it is now I feel like I can't afford to give up either STAB or Leaf Storm. We'll see about that one. Also, I agree that I have reason to fear last pokemon boosters like mentioned, maybe putting Trick and a Scarf on Rotom would help? I don't really know. As of right now, if I have a few pokemon left by that time I should be able to Toxic stall (in theory at least) against the group mentioned, but Steels like Jirachi, Metagross, or Lucario would be a pain. Also, though I really see the merit in having that Jirachi, I can't see any one place where I could fit it in except over Snorlax, and that would leave a big hole in my attempt at an endgame sweep. Thoughts?

Thanks again, guys!

 

[FlashDav]

I'd make Rotom a rest/sleep talk and two attack set. Maybe like:

Rest
Sleep Talk
Thunderbolt/ Discharge (for paralyzing flyers and steels)
Shadow ball (For other pesky ghosts)

This gives him more staying power.

Curse lax seems out of place so maybe ill give you an idea for it later.

Since you have toxic spikes I'd run a Wish and protect set on blissey to waste turns killing them with poison and potentially passing wishes to your team (like Tenta who has no way to heal itself)

 

[ginganinja]

I think that Scarf Rotom is an excellent pokemon however it leaves it much more vulnerable to Scarf Tar. This is very important since if the opponient also carries a rapid spinner then you cannot stall successfully.
I do think that Jirachi should go over Snorlax since this looks like a heavy stall team. Heavey Stall usually do not focus on end game sweeps like offensive or balenced teams do, Stall teams wear the opponent down with Entry Hazards while walling the offensive pokemon that other teams will use. Jirachi still hits hard if you need it to and serves both as a trick absorber and as a solution to last pokemon stat ups.

I also think that the bulky Rotom sleep talk set benfits you with Rest,Sleep Talk, Thunderbolt and Will-o-wisp especially since the sleep does not trouble rotom since you have a cleric.

Have a Nice Day!

 

[bread]

if you are looking for a cursing pokemon, you should try out resttalk cradily instead of snorlax especially since you are conjuring up sandstorm. it is very capable of sweeping through entire teams.

 

[Brammi]

Make Curselax a Cursepert to take advantage of the SS. You already have Skarmory to switch into the grass moves that will come and you get a free couple of phazes when they switch out for their skarm counter.

 

[Omega Phoenix]

Not a bad team, you seem to have a great deal of threats covered. However you are horribly weak to DD Mence and SD Luke.

Right now, sure all members of your team have a useable move to cripple these sweepers, however a simple mispredict will cost you the game. For example, Lucario will be sent out on your Blissey, sure you could stay in and T-Wave, but if you predict wrong Lucario will KO your special wall, allowing their special sweepers to plow through your team, switch out as he SDs and it's game over. Same deal with Salamence, due to it's unpredictability you could switch out assuming MixMence only to find yourself facing one at +1. To help cover this weakness i suggest a RestTalk Gyarados over Tentacruel. This keeps your fire and water resist your were looking for and adds a great status absorber, physical wall with intimidate and another phaser. On that note, choose Roar > Ice Fang on Hippowdon, with that secondary damage you can never have too many phasers.

In order to keep your toxic spikes and a rapid spinner, i suggest replacing Skarmory with Forretress, the set being:

Forretress @ Leftovers/Shed Shell
Relaxed
252 HP/112 Atk/144 Def
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Payback
- Rapid Spin

This allows you to keep similar typing to Skarmory, whilst maintaining all of your spiking needs. The attack EV's are for the 3HKO on Rest Talk Rotom which will help you against other stall teams. Relaxed is to be slower than other Forretress to Rapid Spin their spikes away. Leftovers because you have no reliable form of recovery without Wish, but Shed Shell could be useful as Forretress will now be crucial to your teams chances, depends on how much you fear Zone.

Lastly, I suggest switching your Rotom to a RestTalk variant aswell. This provides another status absorber, whilst being able to counter Gyarados more effectively. It also allows you to take full advantage of your cleric.

Hope my changes helped

Best of luck with the team

 

[maxbarnyard]

I'm seeing a lot of ResTalk Rotom-A, and I agree that it would have much greater survivability, though Leaf Storm will be missed. What would be a good nature/EVs/moveset for it, and what would be the right appliance form? I'm currently thinking Rotom-H to scare off Scizor/Forretress. Thanks for the input, guys!

 

[Korali]

Not a bad team, you seem to have a great deal of threats covered. However you are horribly weak to DD Mence and SD Luke.

Right now, sure all members of your team have a useable move to cripple these sweepers, however a simple mispredict will cost you the game. For example, Lucario will be sent out on your Blissey, sure you could stay in and T-Wave, but if you predict wrong Lucario will KO your special wall, allowing their special sweepers to plow through your team, switch out as he SDs and it's game over. Same deal with Salamence, due to it's unpredictability you could switch out assuming MixMence only to find yourself facing one at +1. To help cover this weakness i suggest a RestTalk Gyarados over Tentacruel. This keeps your fire and water resist your were looking for and adds a great status absorber, physical wall with intimidate and another phaser. On that note, choose Roar > Ice Fang on Hippowdon, with that secondary damage you can never have too many phasers.

In order to keep your toxic spikes and a rapid spinner, i suggest replacing Skarmory with Forretress, the set being:

Forretress @ Leftovers/Shed Shell
Relaxed
252 HP/112 Atk/144 Def
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Payback
- Rapid Spin

This allows you to keep similar typing to Skarmory, whilst maintaining all of your spiking needs. The attack EV's are for the 3HKO on Rest Talk Rotom which will help you against other stall teams. Relaxed is to be slower than other Forretress to Rapid Spin their spikes away. Leftovers because you have no reliable form of recovery without Wish, but Shed Shell could be useful as Forretress will now be crucial to your teams chances, depends on how much you fear Zone.

Lastly, I suggest switching your Rotom to a RestTalk variant aswell. This provides another status absorber, whilst being able to counter Gyarados more effectively. It also allows you to take full advantage of your cleric.

Hope my changes helped

Best of luck with the team

Hippowdon is the ultimate SD Luke counter, he should have zero problems with Luke, and taking away Skarmory over a phazer would be overall detrimental to the team.

What you need to do is put all of your EV's on SP.D on Hippowdon and move them to defense, with this, he's able to take a +2 SD Close Combat from Lucario, live, and oneshot him with Earthquake. And trust me, as an avid user of lead Hippowdon, use Roar. Ice Fang is pretty much a relic from the lead Garchomp days, and you'll pretty much only be able to slightly tap Gliscors, Crobats, and Mences, and 2 shot Aerodactlys. Use Roar, two phasers is always good.


And I also agree with the above, get Cursepert or Curse Cradily instead of Curselax to help benefit from the sandstorm.

 

[ginganinja]

as the team stands Infernape does a huge number on the team. Tentacruel is yu only counter and it can getworn dow prtty fast since it has no recovery.

Rest talk Gyarados or a Vaporeon work well over Snorlax. Both can take infernape quite well an hae recvery.Both also support the team as a whole such as Vaporeon (wish passing) or Gyarados (can add another phaser)

Have a Nice Day!

 

[maxbarnyard]

I think I can do alright with Tentacruel to counter Infernape, but I agree that he needs a form of recovery, Wish being the best option. Would a Blissey set of Wish/Protect/Heal Bell/Seismic Toss be a good call? I'll be sad to lose Thunder Wave for Flyers, Steels, and Levitators, but Blissey needs a reliable way to defend itself, especially against the special attackers it counters so well.

Additionally, I'm thinking of replacing Snorlax with the recommended Jirachi, probably being

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Jolly: 252 Atk, 4 HP, 252 Spe
Iron Head
Trick
Fire Punch
Ice Punch

Thunderpunch is an option over Ice Punch to take out Gyarados, but Ice Punch has more use, so is probably the better option. I choose to max out speed so as to tie +1 positive nature DDMence and OHKO with Ice Punch. It may not be worth the risk however. This guy would obviously also prevent last pokemon boosters from working by locking them onto one move, hopefully a boosting move. The little star also protects my stallers from getting choice tricked by switching into an expected trick, locking the tricker onto Trick (think I said 'trick' enough?)

Again, any suggestions for nature/EVs/moveset for RestTalk Rotom-A? Also, appliance?

 

[davud363000]

At Snorlax, you can try Return/Body Slam and Fire Punch over Crunch and Earthquake. Only Heatran can wall this combination, but don't worry, Tentacruel's there to help you.

This is completely pointless, but doesn't any rock poke resists normal/fire? But Tentecruel is there for Tars and stray aeros too

 

[maxbarnyard]

Does anyone have recommendations for what EVs/nature/moves should be on a RestTalk Rotom-A for this team, in place of the one currently listed and with the Scarf Jirachi over Snorlax?

 

[ginganinja]

the analysis EV spread for Rotm is perfect
Here it is
Bold
252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
I would recomend Rest/Sleep Talk/Will-o-wisp and Thunderbolt

Have a Nice Day!

 

[c.falcon-arrgh]

I'm suggesting a curse tyranitar over curse snorlax.

1. It provides a secondary sand stream when dealing with rain/sun/hail team, which is VERY handy with its massive sp.def (since its the curse variant) and the ability to screw up annoying sh*t like stallrein and froslass without fearing the blizzard or surf unlike hippowdon

2. It does whatever curselax does and does it better with STAB payback and better sp.def. Although the 4x weak to fighting may be a bad point, you have so many pokemon to deal with fighting pokemon i don't even need to remind you.

 

[maxbarnyard]

bump