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Starmie (Full Revamp)+
- Thread starter cim
- Start date
1) Psychic
2) No Recoil
3) No Recover
Really they could be combined, but Psychic with Expert Belt deserves a mention. It hits a ton of shit super effective.
2) No Recoil
3) No Recover
Really they could be combined, but Psychic with Expert Belt deserves a mention. It hits a ton of shit super effective.
*Right*.
You forget that there are more reasons to use Ice Beam than just for "Salamence." You forget Dragonite for one, but Celebi in particular. Ice Beam 2HKOes Celebi with Expert Belt (again, 252 HP / 0 SpD Bold Celebi). This also assumes Starmie has max Special Attack. It also hits Zapdos harder than any other option. Just because you think that Ice Beam is inneffective against one Pokemon (and I can account that it isn't, by the way), it is hitting other Pokemon that would otherwise counter Starmie.
You forget that there are more reasons to use Ice Beam than just for "Salamence." You forget Dragonite for one, but Celebi in particular. Ice Beam 2HKOes Celebi with Expert Belt (again, 252 HP / 0 SpD Bold Celebi). This also assumes Starmie has max Special Attack. It also hits Zapdos harder than any other option. Just because you think that Ice Beam is inneffective against one Pokemon (and I can account that it isn't, by the way), it is hitting other Pokemon that would otherwise counter Starmie.
Colonel M, I'm specifically referring to the Counter Starmie set, not the Expert Belt attacking set.
Raikou, I can just put Psychic on the Life Orb set and slash on Expert Belt. They play identically.
I dunno, it seems Starmie's wasting slots it could be using to stop threats it can actually handle just to stop Salamence from DDing on Starmie when a lot of teams should have answers to DD. I guess I'll slash it in.
CounterStar is looking to be this, after I do more testing
Starmie @ Leftovers
non arbitrary evs (probably anti-gyarados)
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Fire / Ice Beam
- Recover
Should sufficiently counter Infernape, Gyarados, Scizor, Heatran, and the like. Ice Beam is if you have Scizor covered and are scared of Salamence, which you should be.
Edited Choice sets into one, Added Expert Belt set and whatnot, other fixes..
Raikou, I can just put Psychic on the Life Orb set and slash on Expert Belt. They play identically.
I dunno, it seems Starmie's wasting slots it could be using to stop threats it can actually handle just to stop Salamence from DDing on Starmie when a lot of teams should have answers to DD. I guess I'll slash it in.
CounterStar is looking to be this, after I do more testing
Starmie @ Leftovers
non arbitrary evs (probably anti-gyarados)
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Fire / Ice Beam
- Recover
Should sufficiently counter Infernape, Gyarados, Scizor, Heatran, and the like. Ice Beam is if you have Scizor covered and are scared of Salamence, which you should be.
Edited Choice sets into one, Added Expert Belt set and whatnot, other fixes..
Why is Starmie countering Scizor again? Ice Beam over Hidden Power Fire please.
IIRC, Swords Danced Quick Attack destroys Starmie so I honestly would just find a better Scizor counter.
IIRC, Swords Danced Quick Attack destroys Starmie so I honestly would just find a better Scizor counter.
I normally would support this, but I'm just saying that judging by Doug's statistics, Quick Attack on Scizor is used '14.6' percent of the time. I personally have never seen it used. So... : /
Starmie is much, much better at countering Scizor than Salamence. As you can see, even the old outdated spread won't OHKO Starmie with an SD Quick Attack... and that's old and outdated.
Why do people even think Starmie has a shot against Salamence? It's better to counter something you can than prepare for something to not set up on you.
Idk, just personally I wouldn't use Hidden Power Fire on Starmie because it seems utterly useless. It's for one pokemon. Ice Beam has the advantage of hitting things like Zapdos, Breloom, etc. Ice in general is giving Starmie good coverage, not just for countering Salamence which I agree it does a shit job at doing.
That may be why it's called "CounterStar".
Then again, I never, ever use any set in any analysis that is below the first two. (Gimmick sets)
[SET]
name: CounterStar
move1: Surf
move2: Thunderbolt
move3: Hidden Power [Fire] / Ice Beam
move4: Recover
item: Leftovers
ability: Natural Cure
evs: 136 HP / 156 Def / 216 Spe
nature: Timid
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Although similar to the Rapid Spinner and Special Attacker sets, this Starmie is designed to specifically kill, or at least force out, Pokémon such as Infernape, Gyarados, and Scizor. Infernape's Grass Knot, Gyarados's Dragon Danced Earthquake, and Scizor's Swords Danced Quick Attack all fail to OHKO Starmie, allowing it to somewhat handle these threats with Super-Effective attacks, provided one watches out for ThunderPunch, Bite, and X-Scissor respectively. When a smart trainer switches out these threats, simply use Starmie's high Speed to Recover off damage so it can come in on these threats repeatedly.</p>
<p>Ice Beam is listed on this set simply because it prevents Salamence from setting up on Starmie. It must be stressed though that Starmie cannot switch in to any Salamence set currently used in OU without risking a OHKO. Dragon Dance sets will OHKO with a DD Outrage, mixed or Specs sets with Draco Meteor, and Choice Band sets with Outrage. Hence, Hidden Power Fire is recommended for Scizor.</p>
Worth adding? Y/N? Comments?
name: CounterStar
move1: Surf
move2: Thunderbolt
move3: Hidden Power [Fire] / Ice Beam
move4: Recover
item: Leftovers
ability: Natural Cure
evs: 136 HP / 156 Def / 216 Spe
nature: Timid
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Although similar to the Rapid Spinner and Special Attacker sets, this Starmie is designed to specifically kill, or at least force out, Pokémon such as Infernape, Gyarados, and Scizor. Infernape's Grass Knot, Gyarados's Dragon Danced Earthquake, and Scizor's Swords Danced Quick Attack all fail to OHKO Starmie, allowing it to somewhat handle these threats with Super-Effective attacks, provided one watches out for ThunderPunch, Bite, and X-Scissor respectively. When a smart trainer switches out these threats, simply use Starmie's high Speed to Recover off damage so it can come in on these threats repeatedly.</p>
<p>Ice Beam is listed on this set simply because it prevents Salamence from setting up on Starmie. It must be stressed though that Starmie cannot switch in to any Salamence set currently used in OU without risking a OHKO. Dragon Dance sets will OHKO with a DD Outrage, mixed or Specs sets with Draco Meteor, and Choice Band sets with Outrage. Hence, Hidden Power Fire is recommended for Scizor.</p>
Worth adding? Y/N? Comments?
Or you can use Grass Knot for the same 2HKO. You were guilty of the same oversight of the concept of "reliable damage" in the Salamence revamp with regard to Choice Specs so I am going to explain myself again. Surf/TB/IB Specs Starmie can't OHKO any 100% Tyranitar, with any move, as I show above. This means that CB Tyranitar could literally switch into any attack Starmie had and not die, meaning that it doesn't even have to guess right to not die. If Starmie uses TB or IB, it is dead to Pursuit. If Starmie uses Surf, Tyranitar is 2HKOed. So it comes down to the fourth move. If Starmie uses Psychic, it is dead to Pursuit. If Starmie uses Grass Knot, it does 70-83%, which is a 2HKO.
Your current blurb on Grass knot states that it is mainly for Swampert. This isn't true, and there's a reason I didn't mention Swampert or any other pokemon on which Grass Knot is the most effective attack considering the given Surf/TB/IB. The reason is "reliable damage" in case you mispredict, and not just on the immediate offending pokemon but deterring future ones as well. You will note that the pokemon I did mention in Electivire and Gyarados are both hit harder by other moves...why would I mention those two when they are both murdered by Surf and Thunderbolt respectively? This is why—it is the same "you used the wrong attack" syndrome of Choiced pokemon that I have been explaining literally over two years now for DP. When I wrote the analysis, I was aware that Psychic hits Gyarados for 135 power compared to Grass Knot's 120. But I was also aware of how threatening CB Tyranitar and Weavile were at the time. When you consider that I probably knew that Surf does more to Tyranitar than Grass Knot, you should have considered why I would have mentioned Grass Knot in the fourth slot, not that I didn't know what I'm talking about.
Much like the reason I had to repeatedly explain why HP Grass sucked on Swampert over Dragon Pulse because it 2HKOed every time and Swampert would never come in on a locked HP grass, 328 SpA Specs Surf does 57-68% to 404HP/216SpD Swampert. This is more than enough when you realize that this is the only pokemon that Grass Knot would actively be a target for, unless you want to argue that 100 BP for just two other pokemon in Suicune and Milotic is so much better than 95 BP and a 10% par chance so therefore you should be using an option-four Grass Knot if you're predicting/in on these two pokemon (this is a bad argument for the same "reliable damage" concept voiced above). Therefore this is not the reason I suggested Grass Knot and shouldn't be in your reasoning either, since standard Swampert (no Attack EVs) only does 51-62% with EQ and therefore is never staying in on a Starmie not locked into IB or TB and is guaranteed at least a 2HKO if it switched into Specs Surf or Grass Knot. Hell, even Ice Beam does 38-45% to 404HP/216SpD, which means Swampert can't even switch into that and Counter Starmie.
Getting back to the point, locked-in Psychic is actually worse than Specsmence's locked-in HP Ground because, when I wrote the analysys and CB/Pursuit Tyrantiar and Weavile were all the rage (a point that needs to be underlined), you stood a significant chance of losing Starmie if you used Psychic, compared to "just" giving a ton of pokemon a chance to come in and likely set up where they can't with locked-in Hydro Pump. This liability outweighed the merits of secondary STAB on Starmie, merits I whimsically referred to in the opening paragraph and ones noted in either this thread or the old one—I am very, very cognizant of how awesome Psychic on Starmie is, regardless of how much stock you want to place in Battle Tower exploits. The reason I didn't recommend it for competitive battle, in spite of my love of Surf/Psychic/IB/TB Starmie, is because when Choice Specs is your item, Grass Knot's "merit minus liability", especially at the time, was greater than Psychic's "merit minus liability".
That said, I would rather use Trick over either move myself today, considering Surf/TB/IB. The threat of CB Pursuit is much less now that, in some sort of weird pokemon karma/full circle stuff, Plat Scizor does to Weavile and Tyranitar what they did to Starmie in early DP (and now Counter Star has HP Fire to get Scizor, lol).
Lastly:
If you can't contribute without being generally contentious or taking pointless (and arguably incorrect) shots at analyses that had to be written for the site before competitive DP was even in full swing, I have a hard time believing you'll ever deserve a Contributor Badge.
What I think would have been more appropriate to mention is for a Starmie user to pack Psychic, but not to use it until Tyranitar is taken care of. I don't see why this is hard for any Starmie to do, and considering Grass Knot's variable base power and shitty typing, it's not as if it's a great move to spam if you don't know what attack to use. Water is a much better offensive typing for that sort of thing, even if you only do a little to Gyarados.
Alright, I screwed up and put Swampert there for Grass Knot without checking for Surf. I guess that's less of a reason to use it...? Considering how unreliable its base power and typing is, I don't get the point of it at all other than assuming a Starmie user blindly picks attacks or something.
Why does it matter that they were all the rage then? I'm not trying to argue that it was "dumb" then. I'm writing the Platinum update.
The liability is a somewhat dangerous one, but it can be remedied in several ways. Such as not using Psychic until you've scouted for Tyranitar sufficiently. Considering the targets of Grass Knot are basically ones that can all be hit better by other moves (and considering the multitude of resists / 4x resists it's barely better than an immune move), I really disagree that GK Starmie makes more sense. It basically sounds like a filler for if you know either a Water resist or Tyranitar is coming, but not which one of the two.
That and Weavile could really never switch in to Starmie unless it's spamming Psychic (and if I absolutely had to use Psychic before scouting I would have switched out in one turn anyway). Revenge kills burn it though. Trick I agree should be first, both GK and Psychic are basically filler.
This is ridiculously hard for me to respond to, so I should choose my words carefully to not be a cunt. Don't fuck it up, Chris...
With all due respect, Jump, that's kind of a little personal for an analysis revamp. The "shots" I took at an analysis were because in the current metagame, I didn't think it made sense. In no way did I mean to undervalue your contributions to Smogon by doing so, and I apologize if my post implied anything but a casual disagreement.
Considering that, I had no idea when the analysis was written (nor do I really care, I more want to "get it 'right'" than anything else). While I can understand that my wording was not perfect by any means, I don't think that my disagreement with what I saw as a confusing, somewhat inaccurate, and slightly-misworded analysis should be grounds for me not getting a badge. It actually kind of offends me to read that, to be perfectly frank.
Though, for the record, my whole "I really want a badge" thing is just an attempt at humor and laughing at myself a bit. I basically gave up with "Maybe someday...".
One of the big things that this forgets is that one of Starmie's selling points is its great speed and its ability to revenge Garchomp, which was at the time the premiere threat in DP, as well as Gyarados, which had gained a strong physical STAB in Waterfall making it far more of a threat that had to be prepared for. It's a great likelihood that Ice Beam and Thunderbolt are the two most common attacks that Starmie would use, and that the last attack is almost 100% filler, a move that you would never throw around unless you needed it. In that case, why does it matter if Tyranitar and Weavile are immune to Psychic? Tyranitar still has plenty of chances to come in on Ice Beam and Thunderbolt, and Weavile fails to be OHKOed by either of the two attacks while it outspeeds and 2KOs with even an unboosted pursuit. Bottom line is that Ice Beam and Thunderbolt are just as much of a liability as Psychic is, and in 99% of cases, the secondary STAB will be more useful once you have dealt with their Tyranitar or Weavile.
Grass Knot's terrible coverage and unreliable Base Power honestly make me believe that Grass Knot is possibly the worst "reliable damage" attack that a choiced Starmie can pack. With threats like Salamence and Heatran around that can take advantage of something like a Specs Grass Knot to either stat up or hit something on my team hard (Starmie being a prime resister, and thus being one of the best counters to Heatran making it even worse, as many teams could rely on Starmie to take Heatran's hit, and so would be loath to let something else on their team take the hit), Grass Knot is probably the attack I'd be least likely to use if I was using Specs Starmie. (Note that I used a lot of Specs Starmie back in the day, and always found that Grass Knot would put me in a worse position than Psychic any day.)
In almost 100% of cases, I'd rather lose my Starmie than let a Salamence or a Dragonite get a free Dragon Dance against me. That's exactly what Grass Knot does. Its terrible coverage makes it just as bad as Specs Psychic to throw around, possibly moreso, as there is a ton of really scary and potentially damaging stuff that loves to come in on Grass Knot that can't come in on Psychic. Furthermore, Psychic is the kind of move you don't throw around willy nilly unless you have information on your opponent's team or you need it to beat a specific threat. Unless you're just sitting around spamming Psychic with nothing revealed yet, Psychic will rarely get you into enough trouble that Grass Knot would be a better attack to use.
Given the filler nature of the fourth set, I wholeheartedly agree that Trick is now the move most deserving of that fourth slot.
In all honesty, I find that this "conflict" is more about you proving you're right about an old analysis than about the actual issue of whether or not Grass Knot is better than Psychic. It's offensive that you're so dead-set on your way being the right way, and that you would even go so far as to make a personal comment about Chris being undeserving of a badge because he disagreed with you about something as small as a single move on a single set.
And Grass Knot has and had its merits, as I've laid out. Both are reasonable, but Grass Knot "was" (and I say was reminding you that I wrote the analysis in June of last year) a fine option at the time. The point of Peer Edits from when an analysis is written is to improve upon sets, not to say: "This is a completely illogical point" in the present tense over a year after the fact. You are either nitpicking a 1½ year old analysis for virtually no reason given the point of Peer Edits, or you still think that Grass Knot is, today, a worse move than it was before, which anybody can tell you today because of Trick and the fact that you are less likely to see CB Tar and CB Weavile than you were in June 2007 so Psychic is less of a liability.
And no one is "spamming" the fourth option on a Choice set anyway, I've never implied that with Starmie or Salamence. The point is that, if you are going to use the move, there should be the least amount of drawback possible. You are obviously using Surf if you think Tyranitar is coming in, and Thunderbolt if you think Gyarados is coming in. Again, "I probably knew that Surf does more to Tyranitar than Grass Knot", and the point of Choice Sets is prediction, but if "you used the wrong attack", Grass Knot was less of a liability than Psychic, it's that's simple. (ps: Starmie does 32-38% to Standard LO Gyarados, which actually has a slight chance to 2HKO at 100% HP with SR)
Again, no one's spamming the fourth option on a choice set.
Then why did you say:
It's pointlessly contentious, off-topic, and actually wrong given the June 2007 metagame. Don't do this, especially in Peer Edits but anywhere else for that matter, you've been guilty of this kind of condescension more than a couple times.
Not using your fourth move until you've scouted for Tyranitar doesn't really have any bearing on what the fourth move is since you know you're sticking with Surf anyway if you're actually afraid of Tyranitar, considering CB Tyra still switches into TB/IB just fine, taking 22% max from both. If you ARE afraid of Tyranitar, you would therefore have two viable options to use, since both Surf and GK 2HKO. If you are not afraid of Tyranitar because you have CB Dugtrio+SR support or something, then it does make sense to have Psychic on your SpecsStar. But if you are, and don't want to be limited to just one attack (because, as I have shown, you are dead if you TB or IB CB Tyra as well), then it makes more sense to have GK.
So basically, if you are going to mention fear of Tyranitar, you need to rewrite that part because locked IB and TB are Tyranitar bait as well, not just Psychic, because you are doing 22% max and:
Adamant, 403 Attack Tyranitar using a Choice Band Pursuit on a 262HP/206Def (4EVs/min) Starmie that stays in: 97-114%
and of course, due to Sand Stream Tyranitar only has to do 93.75% min if you stay in, assuming a best-case scenario 100% HP Starmie.
I agree as well, but Weavile could and did switch into Starmie all the time (especially last summer when Steatlh Rock wasn't nearly as popular as it is today and was often spun away back then as well):
Modest, 328 SpA Starmie using a Choice Specs Ice Beam on a 282HP/206SpD (4EVs/min) Jolly Weavile: 29-34%
Modest, 328 SpA Starmie using a Choice Specs Thunderbolt on a 282HP/206SpD (4EVs/min) Jolly Weavile: 58-68%
Considering how few people used Specs Starmie, effectively dividing those percentages by at least 1.5 (because few people used max SpA as well because of the need to counter Infernape), Weavile was definitely a Starmie counter. Obviously Specs Surf has a good chance at OHKOing (102% max), but without Specs literally the best Starmie could do was the same 68% max if it Surfs it on the switch. An aside, but still.hs is
I don't consider "horribly wrong" very casual but whatever. You kind of do this stuff quite a bit and should consider this a not-so-private warning.
Another interesting idea... why isn't Rest considered for the fourth slot like how it is on Choiced Altaria in UU? Starmie has a tendency of switching into nasty attacks due to its relative bulk, and Rest + Natural Cure is pretty neat on something like Starmie.
I understand that, but once Tyra and Weavile were dealt with (if possible), on which pokemon was Psychic better to use than Surf, Thunderbolt or Ice Beam? Everything that resists Surf is hit harder by Boltbeam than Psychic besides Ludicolo, Lanturn and Kingdra and some other shit I don't care to look up if I'm "wrong" (Tentacruel doesn't really count since TB did enough and it couldn't exactly do anything to Starmie cause it'd switch if it used Surf/IB anyway). Everything that doesn't resist Surf is either at least 2HKOed by it in the case of Gengar (OHKOed) or stuff like Heracross or it's the strongest attack (Blissey). And considering how difficult it was to actually get rid of CB Tyranitar and Weavile last summer, being locked into Psychic whether or not you predicted right and got a kill was just not appealing at all.
That's true of any move...Specs Thunderbolt gave Garchomp a free SD and that was at worst the #2 pokemon last year...that didn't make it not a fine move on Starmie though, did it? Specs Ice Beam is "just as bad" to be locked in on as Specs Grass Knot or even Specs Psychic given your Heatran scenario (24% max from IB, 34% max from Psychic, and Scarf Heatran was popular even back then so you couldn't much use locked-in Psychic to deter Heatran), does that make using Ice Beam a bad idea? No.
I've said the same things of GK as neither move is to be relied upon. But back in the summer of 2007 (I'm belaboring this point because I have already stated that GK is worse today than it was then), GK fared better with regard to not losing Starmie for literally nothing compared to Psychic with regard to CB Tyra and Weavile. Also, you are going to lose to DD Sala and Draggy regardless of what moves Starmie used anyway because Specs Starmie isn't a DD Sala or Draggy counter. They set up on locked Surf too if you're actually willing to stay in and try to "deter" that and Draggy does 170% max with DD Outrage (no LO) and Salamence does 148% max with LO DD DC, so any fear of them setting up on your Specs Starmie has less to do with it than not having actual DD Sala and Draggy counters.
Me too, Trick rules.
That's cool, I'm defensive by nature but I don't take kindly to people pissing on old Analysis that had to be written with little-to-no DP knowledge for the site because every was begging for them. I've done this on the behalf of other DP Analyses writers than myself. I just will not stand for it because it is extremely disrespectful given the circumstances under which we needed content for our website.
And don't worry about what I think of Chris. Certainly don't assume this is an isolated incident and I and my fellow mods and admins haven't been hoping his behavior and disposition would improve since he got here and started posting last summer, since he obviously would bring something to the table if so. Private pleas don't seem to be working (believe me, we have all tried very, very hard) so I am going to try my not-so-private method because Chris would help out if, as he admits, he changed his attitude a little.
I can understand being defensive- Hell, I write and update analyses on the Little Cup Forums, and I never like to be wrong or argued with. That said, being part of the moderation staff for a community like this should mean that being a little more thick-skinned would be greatly to the benefit of not only you but many other members of the C&C staff, especially if you're actively looking for members of the community to help with the certainly gargantuan task of updating the entire Smogondex for the myriad changes to Platinum. However, I think this is just turning into a pissing match- a series of overreactions that is going nowhere and indeed is largely pointless. There are merits for both sides, and Chris made a harsher statement than was necessary, which caused you to defend your analysis in an especially fervent manner. Neither of you is wrong, but at the same time neither side is right, which is why the "slash" is a fundamental part of analyses- it comes down to personal preference to decide which move benefits the set more, and both are equally effective if used right.
Also, I would hardly say that Chris has simply stalled in his improvement as you seem to imply- His general demeanor and argumentativeness has improved a fair bit recently, despite what you imply here, and to say that a blip like this shows a lack of willingness to improve his attitude isn't fair in any sense. This has been a rare occurrence for him in recent times, and certainly was not intended as a direct jab at you- it's pretty impossible to tell who wrote the analyses, and any insult was indirect at best.
Bottom line: Forgive, forget, and move on. This pointless bickering will get you two nowhere. And yes, this means you too, Chris.
Fair enough. I guess I'm being too ideal and assuming I'll never "use the wrong attack" on a Specs set. I guess I don't see how one can "use the wrong attack" if they specifically avoid using it until something is dead because of the aforementioned liability, but hey, we're arguing about a 2 year old analysis. Let's get to the "fun" stuff.
Yes I am, though not many times in the past 4 or 5 months. At least I'm "improving", I hope.
I actually quoted you directly (meaning just hit "quote" and read it as I replied) and thought you were referring to something else, forgetting that I posted that. Again, that was a pretty dick move on my part and I'm sorry.
While I'm definitely not perfect by any means at all, I think the implication that I'm identical to myself a year ago is a bit of a stretch. I regularly made ad hominem attacks at people's character then, and other than this incident and another much worse one, I haven't done anything of the sort in the past 3-4 months. Certainly two isolated incidences over the recent months is at leas some sort of improvement.
As for private pleas, I've received exactly one, which I did attempt to take to heart. The author seemed to imply in my 2k thread that I at least kind of recognized it, as he implied that his PM was the reason I have not been permanently banned. If you count the infractions as pleas then I've gotten plenty, lol.
But seriously, take a look at my infractions. One was for the line "sitting in a tree", an attempt at lightheartedness on my part that considering my record was probably a bit over the line. And another was for a math error in calculating PP, again I should have double checked. As of now, only the "hypocrisy" infraction remains on my screen that is flaming. I have a bit to go, but I'm not at where I was a year ago, or even 6 months ago.
In conclusion, Trick / Grass Knot / Psychic. Can we lay this to rest now? Once again, the line was, erm, over the line.
I'm glad to hear we're on the same page in the "defense" regard but, again, you're making assumptions about Chris's history that I would rather not get into here because it quite literally is none of your business. I'm not going to assume you didn't lurk at all before joining in May, but I'm also not going to assume you've been watching Chris's posting since he himself joined almost a full year before you, as I have. It really isn't your place to question my methods of moderation, or even to tell Chris to stop either, as both are borderline mini-modding.
Besides, the only reason I posted here in the manner I did is because this isn't even the first time he has crossed the line with the actual GK/Psychic issue itself. I did see his "completely illogical" point in the Small Changes thread that he linked to in the DP Starmie thread before this one, wanted to say something given my defensive nature, but decided not to post in that thread after all. He came back with something much more insulting (and still wrong given the June 2007 metagame, which is reason enough to post besides being insulted) in this thread for no reason. Not going to let it slide twice, no matter who is insulted (I've done this with other posters besides myself, as I said).
You are, but there are lapses, etc. Also I'm not the only one who thinks so, I am in many regards speaking on behalf of our entire staff.
Ok, apology accepted, but again, it's not just because it was me that this was wrong.
I will liken your case directly to MoP's 18-24 months ago because it is really the same exact thing. "Smart, promising user is way too abrasive and condescening in his comments and replies, is disciplined numerous times by numerous staff members, doesn't shape up as quickly as we would like." This is where you are now, and he went on to "be disciplined more, cool off, finally shape up for good, and be a respected member of our community without totally altering his personality." I hope you can continue to improve. (This is the reason people like Seven Deadly Sins kind of shouldn't pretend they know more about these kinds of situations than an actual staff member.)
Yes I am counting the infractions as private pleas...the only people who can actually see infractions are mods and admins. Anyway, speaking of rest, what do you think about it as an option for the fourth move? "If Choiced Altaria can pull it off so can Choiced Starmie"...right? I wouldn't know lol
Uh... what?
He's my friend. If he's advising me to stop debating a point, he's not "moderating" me. It's advice.
I kind of think it's a bit of a stretch to say that his observation about the last 2 paragraphs of your original post is not mini-modding either. In no way is he asking you to stop or otherwise acting with pretend authority, but rather stating his opinion that the kind of comment is kind of "uncalled" for in a debate about a Starmie move set. The fact that you are a moderator when he's saying something's uncalled for in a debate he probably saw as irrelavent, as your post was debating about a set. It is a blurry line, though, as one could interpret that as moderator advice / recommendation to a user and thus it would be commenting on moderation rather than a post, but SDS could have assumed that it was not that.
If you noticed this before, why did you not point this out to me?
If you read the SUbjective changes post, I quoted the part of the analysis that implied it was somehow more effective than Surf ("Grass Knot is because of Pursuit and Tyranitar in general; even Surf doesn't OHKO" was the rough, paraphrased wording). I read that as "You need Grass Knot to OHKO Tyranitar", which is incorrect. My post there (unlike the line you're quoting) was more reasonable, as what I thought it WAS saying was completely illogical. The explanation was confusing, obviously, as it confused me.
I am aware of this.
I didn't intend to imply that, sorry.
I've talked with SDS a lot about my Smogon history, so his perspective is probably a bit twisted, though he has seen some of the infractions still in my Inbox / the Lee letter / etc. I'd say he's probably taking my Little Cup Forums work into consideration as well as my Smogon record. Again, I can't speak for SDS though.
It takes two turns to do, so it might be trouble. Not horrible, but a "Set Comments" thing I'd imagine.
Anyway, while I think I've been "getting better" over the last 2 months in particular (that's the only questionable thing in the time period immediately after that Wobb thing, and I've been more active than normal), it's good to get a reality check so I can get better. That being said, uh, can we just talk about Starmie now pleease?