I mean, not really. Rocks are the only hazard you even need, and if you really want to target defog users before going to use spikes, that's fine as well. But entry hazards this gen are 'nice' to have, not required.Entry hazard are a major player in stall team and defog kinda defeat the point then.
Specially Defensive Mega Venusaur handles Manaphy with no problems whatsoever.I have been playing a bit and I honestly have to agree that Blissey or Chansey are almost a requirement for a stall team at the moment. Sure you can have other checks to Kingdra, Charizard-Y, Volcarona, and Landorus-I, but seriously what the hell else can take on a +6 Manaphy which has been legalized on the ladder. Heck I might give my Blissey even more special defense investment as it gets annoying close to 2HKOing.
Why not Mega Scizor? Gives you a U-Turner with a lot of impressive bulk that also carries defog. It's probably one of the better defoggers available given its ability to sustain momentum while still being bulky enough to secure the clutch Defogs.Honestly I think stall will do a lot better when / if Kangaskan is banned. I have already theorymon'd and play tested a couple of full on defensive teams in XY to cover most threats, but ironically being absolutely forced to run a ghost holds me back and I end up having holds which people can exploit with other Pokemon.
I have also considered trying out the stall ~ volt-turn teamstyle I play tested a bit last gen, in theory it wold be great to run on a defog team, as it is not reliant on hazards. Unfortunately I keep on running into issues in team building because of the shear amount of threats. Any thoughts? I have been thinking about Heatran + Rotom-W + Genesect + a Defoger + 2 other pokes.
If you have Florges on play, they will switch into Lucario, this easily predictable, so he'll take a Moonblast to the face, if he decides to attak you live and kill him, if he decides to setup he is dead anyway, assuming he went for the Bullet Punch and you went 10% and killing him, at the end of the turn you'll go to 16% EoT, you can can either switch out or protect putting you at 22%, which later on the game is enough for you to Wish your HP back, it is a very fair trade since you took out the only thing that can really ruin your dayWhat? So your point is that if lucario switchs into a moonblast 100% healthy florges, she is able to shoot another moonblast before taking a shit lot of damage?? :P
If anything, florges is huge set uo bait for lucario. The oponnent ust has to switch on calm mind or arometherapy, or wish, or whatever. Then it can nasty plot/SD and win the game.
Ok, she may not be at 100% most of the time, but it's still something your opponent needs to get rid of, having Mega Lucario more than halfway killed, with Hazard support you put him even lower, to switch out into anything that can take hits and kill him or burn and stall him dead.The big problem there is that if you are anywhere below 94% he already has a chance to OHKO with Bullet Punch. tealth rock alone get you there. And how often are you going to be at >95% health anyway? That doesn't happen very often unless you send him after one of your pokemon is dead. And for stall this usually means you lost the game anyway.
You have options, but you need to be well prepared before going into battle against Kyurem-B. Faster/Prankster Pokemon with Will-O-Wisp can hit him before he gets a sub up (I'd be hesitant to switch Sableye into him, to say the least.) A more realistic option is to use something that can hit with Gyro Ball to break subs while being able to tank a physical hit. Ferrothorn does a pretty damn good job of that, and can Leech Seed on the switch for some recovery even. Obviously Magnezone makes bringing in Ferrothorn (or most Gyro Ball users,) risky, so you need to play carefully and do what you can to get rid of Magnezone or neutralize it. Choice Scarf Ditto is probably a reasonable answer as a revenge killer if sub isn't up.So I ran into a physical sub variant of kyu-b, and I was at a complete loss if how to beat it with a stall team. Didn't help that it had a magnezone along side it.
The sub variant pretty much breaks stall. It doesn't help that it has teravolt either. If you think about it, it beats all your classic stall/semi stall/bulky mons: slowbro, amoonguss, heatran, skarmory, gliscor, blissey/chansey, hippowdon, etc... which is why stall can be so hard: there are just too many threats.So I ran into a physical sub variant of kyu-b, and I was at a complete loss if how to beat it with a stall team. Didn't help that it had a magnezone along side it.
Physically Defensive Sylveon is a pretty good answer. LO Adamant Fusion Bolt will usually 2HKO after rocks (though lefties is way more common especially on sub variants), but Sylveon can any other hit really well and then hit back really hard with Pixilate Hyper Voice through Kyurem's sub. She's not the best on stall, but she's a decent cleric and deals well with most dragons.So I ran into a physical sub variant of kyu-b, and I was at a complete loss if how to beat it with a stall team. Didn't help that it had a magnezone along side it.
I tried, honestly I did. But in the end, a Blissey just proved to be more useful overall, especially since defensive teams tend to be extremely strapped for team slots. Most special walls are like that, really. They seem neat in theory, but then you realize a big pink blob could get the job done 1000% more easily. It doesn't help that most other special walls aren't much harder to set up on than Blissey/Chansey either.ShedZero said:Has anyone considered Florges?
It almost makes me want to use Fire Punch on Conkeldurr since it can now single-handedly break Skar-Bliss. People are using Knock Off instead of Thunder Punch because it gets Ghosts on the switch-in.Indeed, I still get surprised at how hard to take down chansey with eviolite is. There is just nothing like Blissey/Chansey. Despite all the new and powerfull pokemon being added every generation, the old Skarm/Bliss from Gen 2 is still one of the most solid defensive combos there is.
Agree. Blissey has been amazing to me this gen. I'm still experimenting with defensive cores, but Blissey's staying.Indeed, I still get surprised at how hard to take down chansey with eviolite is. There is just nothing like Blissey/Chansey. Despite all the new and powerfull pokemon being added every generation, the old Skarm/Bliss from Gen 2 is still one of the most solid defensive combos there is.
One problem I've had with Clerics, and wish passers in general, was they always get worn down so incredibly easily. Given they always have to take a hit in order to setup a wish to pass to an ally, they very rarely live past 2-3 passes, if that, and if you keep them in with wish > protect > wish to top themselves off before passing to a team then you have just thrown all of the momentum you could have possibly had at your oppoent on a silver platter.If Wish for whatever reason simply can't be passed through Pokebank (even from a "perfect" legal hack of it) what are alternative wish passers that are working for people? I've been trying Latias and Vaporeon a bit, but i'm not impressed with their opportunities to actually get the wish in (though i was having some success with Wish/Baton Pass on Vaporeon, purely to get something in safely for healing).