SPL 7: UU Discussion Thread

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As we wait for the finals...

Usage stats are up to date: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/spl-7-weekly-usage-statistics.3561451/

No real surprises, Cobalion and Aero remain kings of the tier with Pert in at a close third. Mega-Blastoise appears to be the mega that suffered the most this year, only winning two games out of the nine it was used in. Mega-Bee had the exact opposite showing, winning 7/9 games. Meanwhile the real winner is probably Gyarados, who was used in 10 games and won 8 of them for a stunning 80% win rate, putting it light years ahead of any other 'mon with comparable usage.

Also, a team compendium is up showing the teams many of us used this SPL: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/spl-7-team-compendium.3568730/

So what did everyone think about UU this year? What do you hope to see in the finals? Any disappointments or surprises? It's almost over, so this is your last chance to get your thoughts out there for this year!
 
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As we wait for the finals...

Usage stats are up to date: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/spl-7-weekly-usage-statistics.3561451/

No real surprises, Cobalion and Aero remain kings of the tier with Pert in at a close third. Mega-Blastoise appears to be the mega that suffered the most this year, only winning a single game out of the nine it was used in. Meanwhile the real winner is probably Gyarados, who was used in 10 games and won 8 of them for a stunning 80% win rate, putting it light years ahead of any other 'mon with comparable usage.

Also, a team compendium is up showing the teams many of us used this SPL: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/spl-7-team-compendium.3568730/

So what did everyone think about UU this year? What do you hope to see in the finals? Any disappointments or surprises? It's almost over, so this is your last chance to get your thoughts out there for this year!
Thank god, it's finally over.
 
Wasn't cobalion's win rate relatively low recently? I guess it's been winning a lot in recent games oo

in terms of usage stats I think the mega stats were interesting, for me at least.

I've always said bee/pert/sceptile/sharpedo were the best megas opposed to aero so it's not shocking to me that the usage stats mostly reflect that. Of course, there's a huge margin of error with the win rates and I understand that, but I think those 3's extremely high win rates can't be attributed all to coincidence.

I'm extremely shocked at Sharpedo only getting 2 uses, so obviously the stats can't be conclusive of anything (though it won both games). I still think Sharpedo's one of the best megas in the tier, but I think there's reason to the usage. I feel like in a tier where recently, offense seems to run everything, Swampert would be preferred as a sweeper to sharpedo as it's a tank and sharpedo isn't. Of course, Swampert isn't undeniably better than Sharpedo because of this fact, but it's irresistible to use RD pert over sharpedo when the best mons in the tier are Cobalion, Aerodactyl, Swampert, Salamence, Krookodile, Florges, and Alakazam. Sharpedo must go for the sweep the second it comes in, or rely simply on its naturally strong-ish base speed to sweep (which can be difficult vs offense). Still, though, I see no problems getting full use out of Sharpedo. I guess I had the same issue with shark, though, considering I used swampert at least 3 times and I don't think I used sharpedo (maybe once?) I hope sharpedo sees more usage in the future in UU, it's a very capable pokemon.


As for Aero, the 40% win rate isn't shocking to me tbh. I feel like people slap that mon on any team as an excuse to check like 40 offensive threats in the tier; it's stupid what people don't run good checks for because they have aerodactyl. For example, I think it's fucking retarded when people run teams with aerodactyl as their alakazam counter. It doesnt even OHKO LO kazam with pursuit and forces some teams to sack a mon and then take a twave or 70% (or whatever) from a psychic with dactyl. I don't think aero is inherently bad but the stupid way that it's slapped on teams might be part of the reason it's not winning that much. And 40% wr isn't that bad to be fair, especially considering how many likely aero dittos there are. Regardless, I think even at its full potential Aerodactyl isn't as good as Swampert, Bee, or Scept.

Beedrill won 7/9 which is pretty impressive, but also potentially inconclusive due to the lack of games. I think also people using aerodactyl as the only "counter" to beedrill makes their teams weak to it, especially when they also use aerodactyl to check alakazam and other offensive pokemon commonly paired with beedrill. I think the reason beedrill did so well is p obvious. Ridiculously fast u-turn and pjab with adaptability and its base attack are pretty self-explanatory oo.

Sceptile's basically the same, ridiculously fast and powerful. Beedrill and Sceptile are different from aerodactyl in the sense that they have more power behind them, and less defensive utility. tbh tho beedrill's u-turn and sceptiles coverage/raw power makes them more appealing offensively. Also teal used sceptile a lot so it's not surprising it won so much

Swampert is one of the strongest and fattest mons in the tier, with only 1 type weakness. Probably the best mega imo. I prefer the rocks set but I know more commonly RD is used, probably because it finds an opportunity to set up every game, and it's extremely deadly. Rocks just sets them so easily, and 2hkos just about everything in the tier.

I've always thought blastoise was pretty bad but idk, it just doesn't provide any of the important presence that these other megas do. And even when it was decent in XY, that was when the only defogger in the tier was like gligar lmao. Its utility of removing hazards is outclassed by great utility mons like mence or potentially mandibuzz which don't waste a mega slot.


In terms of non-mega usages the only ones that stood out to me were Florges and Gyarados. I think Florges is super-bad and I always have... before the cm set it was just a bad aromatisse and now people just run florges randomly and awkwardly placed on balance/offense (the same as aero) and expect it to check every special attacker in the tier. Also I've NEVER seen cm florges actually sweep lol. Idk I'd love to hear others' thoughts on usages, especially the ones mentioned.
 
Wasn't cobalion's win rate relatively low recently? I guess it's been winning a lot in recent games oo

in terms of usage stats I think the mega stats were interesting, for me at least.

I've always said bee/pert/sceptile/sharpedo were the best megas opposed to aero so it's not shocking to me that the usage stats mostly reflect that. Of course, there's a huge margin of error with the win rates and I understand that, but I think those 3's extremely high win rates can't be attributed all to coincidence.

I'm extremely shocked at Sharpedo only getting 2 uses, so obviously the stats can't be conclusive of anything (though it won both games). I still think Sharpedo's one of the best megas in the tier, but I think there's reason to the usage. I feel like in a tier where recently, offense seems to run everything, Swampert would be preferred as a sweeper to sharpedo as it's a tank and sharpedo isn't. Of course, Swampert isn't undeniably better than Sharpedo because of this fact, but it's irresistible to use RD pert over sharpedo when the best mons in the tier are Cobalion, Aerodactyl, Swampert, Salamence, Krookodile, Florges, and Alakazam. Sharpedo must go for the sweep the second it comes in, or rely simply on its naturally strong-ish base speed to sweep (which can be difficult vs offense). Still, though, I see no problems getting full use out of Sharpedo. I guess I had the same issue with shark, though, considering I used swampert at least 3 times and I don't think I used sharpedo (maybe once?) I hope sharpedo sees more usage in the future in UU, it's a very capable pokemon.


As for Aero, the 40% win rate isn't shocking to me tbh. I feel like people slap that mon on any team as an excuse to check like 40 offensive threats in the tier; it's stupid what people don't run good checks for because they have aerodactyl. For example, I think it's fucking retarded when people run teams with aerodactyl as their alakazam counter. It doesnt even OHKO LO kazam with pursuit and forces some teams to sack a mon and then take a twave or 70% (or whatever) from a psychic with dactyl. I don't think aero is inherently bad but the stupid way that it's slapped on teams might be part of the reason it's not winning that much. And 40% wr isn't that bad to be fair, especially considering how many likely aero dittos there are. Regardless, I think even at its full potential Aerodactyl isn't as good as Swampert, Bee, or Scept.

Beedrill won 7/9 which is pretty impressive, but also potentially inconclusive due to the lack of games. I think also people using aerodactyl as the only "counter" to beedrill makes their teams weak to it, especially when they also use aerodactyl to check alakazam and other offensive pokemon commonly paired with beedrill. I think the reason beedrill did so well is p obvious. Ridiculously fast u-turn and pjab with adaptability and its base attack are pretty self-explanatory oo.

Sceptile's basically the same, ridiculously fast and powerful. Beedrill and Sceptile are different from aerodactyl in the sense that they have more power behind them, and less defensive utility. tbh tho beedrill's u-turn and sceptiles coverage/raw power makes them more appealing offensively. Also teal used sceptile a lot so it's not surprising it won so much

Swampert is one of the strongest and fattest mons in the tier, with only 1 type weakness. Probably the best mega imo. I prefer the rocks set but I know more commonly RD is used, probably because it finds an opportunity to set up every game, and it's extremely deadly. Rocks just sets them so easily, and 2hkos just about everything in the tier.

I've always thought blastoise was pretty bad but idk, it just doesn't provide any of the important presence that these other megas do. And even when it was decent in XY, that was when the only defogger in the tier was like gligar lmao. Its utility of removing hazards is outclassed by great utility mons like mence or potentially mandibuzz which don't waste a mega slot.


In terms of non-mega usages the only ones that stood out to me were Florges and Gyarados. I think Florges is super-bad and I always have... before the cm set it was just a bad aromatisse and now people just run florges randomly and awkwardly placed on balance/offense (the same as aero) and expect it to check every special attacker in the tier. Also I've NEVER seen cm florges actually sweep lol. Idk I'd love to hear others' thoughts on usages, especially the ones mentioned.
Any opinion on the 100% Milotic Win Rate? I always thought it was a shitmon but I don't think anything else that good.
 
I mean it's only natural that people run Florges when it's quite literally the only surefire stop to the most common Hydreigon sets. Sure you've got P2 and Milotic and those types of things but all are easily worn down by the Taunt variant which I'd say is the most common 4th move on LO Hydreigon. And when you run Pokemon like Krookodile, Swampert, Doublade, Entei, Chandelure, Slowking (seriously the amount of Pokemon that Hydreigon can potentially take advantage of is ridiculous), you need to have a Hydreigon switchin, and Florges is the best Pokemon to run. Not much else fits on a lot of these balance teams that doesn't give up too much momentum, Cobalion isn't safe, Whimsicott isn't safe, Aromatherapy support is very good, Fairy typing is very good especially in conjunction with hazards, and quite honestly Florges is as decent a check to a bunch of special attackers as you're going to get. I agree that it tends to end up on teams where it fits kind of badly, but with stuff like Hydreigon, Mega Blastoise, Kyurem, Mega Sceptile, there isn't much else balance can use.

Same with Aerodactyl and Alakazam, it's not that people use Aerodactyl as their Zam counter, it's that there's literally no better Zam answer that will fit on the team. What are you really supposed to use as a Zam counter, Escavalier? At least Pursuiting it severely neuters it as a threat if it doesn't kill (guaranteed damage), but yeah obviously it's not a 100% reliable answer. Again though, I agree that Aerodactyl tends to get "slapped onto" teams because of the support it provides in theory, but I do think it's one of the top 3 most threatening Pokemon in the tier regardless.

Gyarados's win rate is insane but not too surprising considering that it isn't checked the same way that most setup sweepers are. Sash Zam is far from a check due to Psychic not even 2HKOing and the risk of sub being too much to TWave, Whimsicott is a shaky shaky answer, it doesn't take too much from any priority in the tier, and it's so so easy to setup due to its typing and bulk. 8/10 in SPL and one of them was a Gyarados mirror so 7/8 is a bit more representative.

Yeah Cobalion pulled itself up from a ~40% win rate from the first half of the season I believe.

A few Pokemon that saw surprisingly low usage this year: there was only one Froslass, one Houndoom, one Darmanitan (understandable cause it kinda sucks, literally a liability the one time it was used), one Ampharos (same).

Like you said though, nothing else really stood out or was unexpected, the stats coincide very well with the Viability Rankings.
 

Adaam

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Anyone else surprised by the complete lack of M-Abomasnows? Looking at the top 15 most used mons (up to Sableye) it has a good to fantastic matchup vs 13 of them (Entei and Cobalion being the two it struggles against). Sure its speed and defensive typing leaves a lot to be desired, but there are plenty of popular mons it could take advantage of and fire Blizzards or SD on.

Also Ampharos is great, check out that 100% win rate mm
 
Remember when Milotic was a mememon? I've been hyping it up for like a year (http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-uu-viability-ranking-thread.3531098/page-4#post-6110736) and it finally showed its potential in the big stage. 4 different uses by 4 different players and 4 wins; that doesn't happen randomly. Not the kind of Pokemon you can slap in any team, but Water type + good bulk + Recover + Haze is way too good to overlook.

Tons of people complained about Crawdaunt ruining the meta and by default ruining the SPL in its suspect thread. It ended up going 0-3 and literally nobody was actually worried about it. Hitting hard doesn't mean much when you have no speed and subpar bulk, and strong Aqua Jet is the most overrated thing in the current meta. Maybe the people taking tiering decisions aren't THAT full of shit?

Way too many Florges uses and that's pretty much Hydreigon's fault, because that's the only reliable switch in. Salamence helped, but no Taunt or secondary STAB make it more manageable.

Anyway, shoutouts to all UU players who participated in SPL. All of you (the ones who actual main UU...) brought solid teams, played well and proved your worth. All the first timers were definitely SPL caliber and I hope you get to play again next year.

PSA: Don't start shittalking unless you are certain you are winning your game.
 
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Remember when Milotic was a mememon? I've been hyping it up for like a year (http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-uu-viability-ranking-thread.3531098/page-4#post-6110736) and it finally showed its potential in the big stage. 4 different uses by 4 different players and 4 wins; that doesn't happen randomly. Not the kind of Pokemon you can slap in any team, but Water type + good bulk + Recover + Haze is way too good to overlook.

Tons of people complained about Crawdaunt ruining the meta and by default ruining the SPL in its suspect thread. It ended up going 0-3 and literally nobody was actually worried about it. Hitting hard doesn't mean much when you have no speed and subpar bulk, and strong Aqua Jet is the most overrated thing in the current meta. Maybe the people taking tiering decisions aren't THAT full of shit?

Way too many Florges uses and that's pretty much Hydreigon's fault, because that's the only reliable switch in. Salamence helped, but no Taunt or secondary STAB make it more manageable.

Anyway, shoutouts to all UU players who participated in SPL. All of you (the ones who actual main UU...) brought solid teams, played well and proved your worth. All the first timers were definitely SPL caliber and I hope you get to play again next year.

PSA: Don't start shittalking unless you are certain you are winning your game.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-uu-viability-ranking-thread-m2.3533364/page-9#post-6149527
I too have been a supporting milo for over a year but "why use haze when you can roar with suicune" argument was too strong...

edit at below: That was during salamence meta
 
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