Monotype Speedy Froggos! No Rain Water (Peak ~1820)

[Saezu]

Introduction​

Welcome to this new RMT! I wanted to try the water type and use my favourite water mega, being m-gyarados. As I am pretty bad at keeping pelipper alive and cannot run m-swampert here anyway, I opted for a rainless version. A second little twist is that I wanted to use a different electric immunity and not swampert (because swampert is pretty ugly) and I chose seismitoad, another of water’s great pokemon and a generally pretty cool frog. So while giving advice, please keep in mind that m-gyara and seismitoad will stay on this team and will not be removed.

Teambuilding Process​

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As m-gyarados was the main objective of this team, it obviously came first in the teambuilding process. It functions as a strong yet bulky setup sweeper capable of dismantling entire cores.

Next, the team was complemented with some water staples, namely toxapex, the best defensive wall water has access to; and greninja, a fast versatile attacker providing great utility.

Still lacking defensive capabilities on the special side, empoleon and suicune were added to the team. While the former also acts as hazard control, the latter is capable of both setting up or stalling out unprepared opposing teams.

Lastly, seismitoad was added as water without any electric immunity was horrible to play. Thus it supports the team greatly vs electric-stab carrying foes.

The Team

Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate

EVs: 200 HP / 56 Atk / 252 Spe

Jolly Nature

- Dragon Dance

- Crunch

- Earthquake

- Substitute​

Mega-Gyarados was, apart from being a super cool pokemon, also chosen for its great abilities. Crunch functions as STAB move to deal great damage, while earthquake allows to hit dangerous electric types, especially the for water otherwise troublesome rotom-w. Substitute is a great move which allows safer setup when predicting an opponent to switch and prevents status damage, especially the potentially disastrous will o wisp burn. By running some HP, gyarados is more likely to pull of a dragon dance or two, abusing for example zapdos for set up. And several types, such as psychic or rock, but also slightly weakened electric, cannot stop gyarados at that point anymore.

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

Bold Nature

IVs: 0 Atk

- Toxic Spikes

- Scald

- Recover

- Haze​

This toxapex set is standard and pretty self-explanatory. By investing into max HP and def, toxapex is able to tank pretty much any physical hit that is not super-effective. In combination with scald and haze, it is thus very capable of stopping many physical setup sweepers, e.g., mega-scizor, mega-pinsir, gyarados, tyranitar, mimikyu or depending on the circumstances even m-gallade. Importantly, it also resets the stats of (non-taunt) kommo-o, which otherwise can be a huge risk to the team. Toxic spikes allow to stack hazards and distribute chip damage which is greatly appreciated by greninja and seismitoad which otherwise may lack the power to score certain KOs.

Greninja @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Protean

EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Naive Nature

- Ice Beam

- U-turn

- Extrasensory

- Hidden Power [Fire]​

Greninja functions as scarfer and fast pivot in my team. The moveset is chosen to patch up my team’s biggest trouble spots: ice beam hits dragons hard, which otherwise may tear through this team. Especially garchomp can otherwise be a hassle as both pex and empoleon cannot switch into earthquake and need to hope on a scald burn to get past it, while gyarados and seismitoad suffer rough skin damage. It is also one of my greatest assets in the flying matchup, removing lando/gliscor as well as thundurus/zapdos. Extrasensory is necessary to have at least one way of hitting opposing toxapex as well as m-venusaur, but also to remove strong threats on fighting teams such as keldeo. Naive was chosen to avoid the extreme speed KO by dragonite after stealth rocks.

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent

EVs: 252 HP / 244 SpD / 12 Spe

Calm Nature

IVs: 0 Atk

- Defog

- Stealth Rock

- Toxic

- Scald​

At this point, the team was still lacking effective hazard control aside from toxic spikes. Since I am running neither the typical rocks setter swampert, nor the standard defoggers mantine or pelipper, I wanted to have a team member that is capable of performing both roles at once. For this reason, empoleon was chosen as it carries both defog and stealth rocks. High special defence and the steel typing provide many resistances and allow it to stop many special attackers. While toxic allows to slowly break down opposing walls such as slowbro or porygon2, scald can be used to fish for burns on the predicted switch-in of physical attackers. A roar set might also be viable but I have not tested that yet.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure

EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 Spe

Bold Nature

IVs: 0 Atk

- Substitute

- Calm Mind

- Scald

- Protect​

One pokemon that in my opinion sees far too little usage is the good old vincune, providing support with its great defensive capabilities combined with the amazing ability pressure, allowing it to stall out powerful low pp moves within a few turns. The set runs max HP as well as enough speed to outspeed fast celesteelas, the remaining EVs being placed in def. While suicune is generally walled hard by certain pokemon such as mantine or cradily, it can also beat entire teams by itself if those checks are removed or the opponent simply messes up. For example, steel and fire experience a hard time against this defensive powerhouse. Interestingly, it also is very dangerous for normal type teams as chansey requires two seismic tosses to break through the sub while dittos transformation is barely useful at all.

Seismitoad @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Water Absorb

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Jolly Nature

- Knock Off

- Earthquake

- Poison Jab

- Rock Slide​

Last but not least, the second star of the show. We have already established that water needs an electric immunity but what else does seismitoad have to offer? Can it be a speedy swift swim sweeper? Well, there’s no rain on this team. Could it set hazards then? Empoleon stole his job already. Perhaps it might be a good secondary special wall? Specs koko and LO raichu don’t really care. Seemingly out of options, my seismitoad is a second (surprise) scarfer. While its attack stats are not the greatest, 95 is certainly enough to do the job on most occasions and a physical set was chosen because 95 is still better than 85 and to elevate its versatility by the addition of rockslide. Scarf seismitoad is fast enough to KO many threats by surprise, most notably in the electric and fairy match ups.

The original idea of this set was to surprise opposing tapu kokos and about half of my electric matchups end with a dead koko after turn 1. By removing electric terrain (which can then easily be stalled out for a few turns), water has a pretty good chance at beating electric as raichu and zeraora no longer receive the terrain boost and zapdos/rotom-w can be abused by gyarados as setup fodder. While a little less favourable, seis may take out a-raichu instead but in any case it is usually the speedy grass knot user that goes down. Unfortunately, shuca koko seems to be on the rise again, which is mainly targeted at landorus but also interferes with my strategy here.

Outside the electric matchup, seismitoad also has its uses. Against fairy, it can remove m-diancie and the currently preferred band or sub bulu is KOed by poison jab after stealth rocks damage. Thanks to water absorb, seismitoad also removes azumarill successfully. Vs poison, removing nidoking and knocking off items on pex and a-muk are great assets. In the flying or bug matchup, rock slide can be used to surprise and OHKO Charizard-y and volcarona, respectively, two of the biggest threats to any (slow) water team. Knock off also removes the item of many other nuisances such as chansey, porygon2, ditto, staraptor, mandibuzz or latios. And thanks to its scarf, it can pick up KOs on already weakened foes, such as m-gallade or m-lopunny.

Proof of peak

Tough matchups​

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A few match ups have emerged as more difficult than others and those are listed below:

Grass: This is probably the worst matchup to face as greninja is expected to carry vs virtually any of the dangerous opposing mons (venu, ferro, scarf bulu).

Flying: Both offensive and balance flying can be a pain as mantine walls the heck out of most water mons. If pressure zapdos gets up a sub or thundurus clicks agility, I might also be in a bind.

Ground: This is perhaps a little embarrassing for water but without rain to counter sand, no strong water STAB attacks and a defensive core vulnerable to ground attacks, ground can be a quite tough matchup. This could be fixed by running hydro pump greninja but would also mean to give up the grass matchup.

Electric: Of course, electric can still be a gamble depending on how the first few turns go. But I’d say, I generally have a quite good chance as long as koko doesn’t carry shuca berry.

Dragon: As mentioned above, garchomp can be a pretty nasty opponent and needs to be removed as soon as possible. But also kommo-o is dangerous, especially if it carries taunt to make pex useless. Lastly, m-latias is very difficult to beat if m-gyarados goes down and should not be underestimated.

Conclusion​

That concludes my water RMT. I hope you enjoyed reading about this little tweak to the existing water archetypes and have perhaps some neat ideas on how to make it even better. This hopefully shows that even seemingly inferior pokemon can bring some success if used with interesting sets/dedicated teammates. I might add some calcs later on but am currently a bit short on time. If you’d like to try it out, please find the team below.

Importable

Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate

EVs: 200 HP / 56 Atk / 252 Spe

Jolly Nature

- Dragon Dance

- Crunch

- Earthquake

- Substitute



Toxapex @ Black Sludge

Ability: Regenerator

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

Bold Nature

IVs: 0 Atk

- Toxic Spikes

- Scald

- Recover

- Haze



Greninja @ Choice Scarf

Ability: Protean

EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Naive Nature

- Ice Beam

- U-turn

- Extrasensory

- Hidden Power [Fire]



Empoleon @ Leftovers

Ability: Torrent

EVs: 252 HP / 244 SpD / 12 Spe

Calm Nature

IVs: 0 Atk

- Defog

- Stealth Rock

- Toxic

- Scald



Suicune @ Leftovers

Ability: Pressure

EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 Spe

Bold Nature

IVs: 0 Atk

- Substitute

- Calm Mind

- Scald

- Protect



Seismitoad @ Choice Scarf

Ability: Water Absorb

EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Jolly Nature

- Knock Off

- Earthquake

- Poison Jab

- Rock Slide

 

[Splash]

Hey Saezu I like the team a lot honestly, Scarf Toad would seem to put in hella work on the ladder. I do got one suggestion though, and that would be to tweak the Greninja set from Choice Scarf to Z move. Since you already got Seismotoad as a Choice Scarf user, (although not as fast as Greninja) I would suggest running a Poison/Grass killer Greninja , since those matchups do seem a little harder to win on paper. Extrasensory , Hidden Power Fire , and Ice Beam are great moves that I would keep, as they help in both the Grass and Poison and Flying matchups mightily. As for the last slot I would add Dig and let Greninja hold Groundium Z as this allows it to bait and get rid of Alolan Muk. If you were to remain holding the Choice Scarf it would allow Alolan Muk to Pursuit trap and OHKO you as you use Extrasensory in the Poison matchup. With the Z crystal you do not have to make any aggressive double switches in order to play around Alolan Muk as you can click Extrasensory, and then if Alolan Muk switches in you can OHKO it with Tectonic Rage, thus opening the door for Extrasensory to be freely clicked vs Poison. Tectonic Rage can also catch certain mons like Klefki , and Heatran , as they may be both unsuspecting of Z-Dig and are switch ins to a potential Ice Beam / Hidden Power Fire. Once Klefki is gone you do not have to deal with dual screens, and once Heatran is gone, Hidden Power Fire is free vs Steel.

With these changes I feel as your team could matchup great vs every type as you already have the Electric matchup covered thanks to Seismotoad.

set

Greninja @ Groundium Z
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Extrasensory
- Dig
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power Fire

This was one of the cooler more creative Monotype teams I've seen posted here in a while , and it is nice to see you had great success on the ladder with it, you could probably catch me using this, I really liked it!

 

[Saezu]

Hey Saezu I like the team a lot honestly, Scarf Toad would seem to put in hella work on the ladder. I do got one suggestion though, and that would be to tweak the Greninja set from Choice Scarf to Z move.

I'm glad you like the team Splashbrutha. I will give your suggestion a try but I'm afraid scarf gren might be quite essential as it is my best call to stop scarf lando/thundy/garchomp, rush exca and z-kommo from annihilating me. At least poison is actually not that bad of a matchup. Suicune can stall out giga drain and the double sub limits leech seed's usefulness, while gyara/seis are threatening enough to scare off most other poison mons, forcing venu back in.

 

[Samallmighty]

Hi Saezu! Hey, this team looks familiar indeed! Thanks for your rmt; as splashbrutha rightfully pointed out, it's a very creative one and still very much competitive; I like it a lot. Before going more in depth, I also wanted to stress that your descriptions were quite useful: I share your opinion that vincune is a largely underestimated threat for mono normal teams. Since it's quite an original one, I'm curious about m-gyarados bulk investment; could you explain why you chose this specific benchmark and why in your opinion a rather bulky m-gyarados suits your team. Splashbrutha's suggestion about greninja makes a lot of sense in most water teams but your reasoning is sensitive as well, so I think it's a matter of taste. On a side note, I do appreciate the fact that 'my' greninja set is becoming more and more popular. To think that spikes was a go to move at the beginning of the gen is something I will probably never understand. Suicune's and empoleon's sets are mainstream, so I won't spend too much time on it. I do think though that you're right to keep toxic instead of roar on empoleon since haze pex already does the phazing job quite well. Seismitoad's set is heat, I just love it, great job. The only real alternative I may suggest is a rather minor and unorthodox one: since you say that you often lack a bit of chip damage for your attackers, maybe rocky helmet on pex might be worth trying. I'm not sure at all it is better but I personally like to have this item on most balance teams to punish u-turn spam and I feel pex is a good user of it as with regenerator and recover, he may not need extra recovery. In any case, congratulations for your teams and peak, I hope to fight you again on the ladder xd!

 

[Saezu]

Thanks for your comment! I must admit, there is no real reason for it being 200 HP and not 180 or 220 or whatever. Doing calcs kind of bores me and I usually just play by gut feeling. Gyara was too frail at first so he got some HP and it makes the whole thing go better. There is actually a very good chance of better spreads being out there. Nonetheless, here a few things that might be worth the HP:

What I know is, that the spread helps me to scout the bulu set on fairy teams without risking to lose seis or pex. Vs electric, it turns zapdos discharge into a 3HKO and if electric terrain was removed, -1 banded zeraora (after intimidate) cannot OHKO m-gyarados anymore (even with rocks up), also giving me a free setup turn. Vs psychic banded victini will most likely not be able to ohko with bolt strike, giving me 1 ddance. A-muk cannot break m-gyaras sub without a curse either. There's probably more but that's what came to my mind right now.