VGC Special Ray+Ogre Team

[SSoeiro]

Newbie VGC Builder here. Been playing a lot to try to find my playstyle, and I found I like an offensive, controlly style. So this would be "my" first team.
Anyways, here's my RayOgre team :)

Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Surf
- Overheat
- Protect

After some suggestions, I've come to agree the ability to Mega is really useful in matchups where Mawile isn't so great. Plus, I've done some calcs and it seems, while I was right to fear the intimidate, I didn't need to kinder so hard to SpA to kill the threats I feared. With no investment, Surf and Overheat OHKO Groudon, Ferrothorn and Mawile respectively, even when bulky and when I'm non-Mega Ray (even if Pdon is max HP and SPDef). Dragon's Ascent provides good OHKOs on things like Amoonguss if not Intimidated.

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 76 SpA / 4 SpD / 52 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Protect

With the bulkier spread I felt a bit more comfortable moving from O.Pulse to Water Spout, however I wasn't so ready to part with Thunder. If I was going to get rid of Ferrothorn, I definitely wanted to keep the pocket 2hko on my Kyogre.

Whimsicott (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Taunt
- Tailwind
- Protect

I didn't really change much here. The spread was better.

Raichu (M) @ Zap Plate
Ability: Lightning Rod
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Volt Tackle
- Nuzzle
- Feint

This little guy. I really like him. If I'm not taking Whimsicott as my support, I'm taking him. Fake Out is great support for when I need to put on pressure immediately, Volt Tackle handles Kyogre easily, Nuzzle helps with speed control, and feint is such a nice tech-y move that provides so much momentum it's crazy. Also is really good against Thundurus for obvious reasons.

Talonflame (M) @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Brave Bird
- Overheat
- Tailwind
- Protect

I agree that TFlame is a nice fit on the team. Bringing more speed control and answers to Ferro is always welcome, along with priority Brave Bird. I definitely need Tect though too, knowing Ray carries Surf. My spread and item is probably really inefficient, but I honestly am not sure of a better one.

Mawile-Mega (F) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 148 HP / 252 Atk / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Protect

Changed up the EV spread for GradeA's. Found I really liked it.

Problem areas I see:
- No real answer to Dialga or anything else I need to hit with ground as I sort of have none.
- Redirection may be useful, but can't find a good place for it on this team. Redirection for Rayquaza is always appreciated.
- Status. I don't have much status on my team besides Nuzzle where I feel like I could.

Things I definitely want to keep:
- Mega Mawile. Love this Pokemon. Even if the overall team identity has to change for it, that's fine.
- I like it's offensive style. Helps me concentrate when I have momentum going strong.
- Taunt-core. I love using these two moves, and I want them someplace, even if they're not on Whimsi.
- Rayquaza. Preferably normal Ray. Doesn't need to be special ray, but I love the weather immunity he grants me amidst this whole "Every team has a Primal" meta. Though I am not as attached to him as Mawile.

Things I want to change/can see changing:
- I really dislike Leech Seed on ferro. My style is so momentum-based that I only really use Leech Seed for style points when I only need 12% to kill something, otherwise it's won me maybe 1/100 games. I really want more.

I think I've found an overall style I like with this team and I really like some mons on it, but I feel like I'm missing a lot. Thanks for any and all help! :)

 

[GradeAGarchomp]

hi SSoeiro, nice rayogre team you have there, i love seeing good rayogre teams.

however, there are a few things i see that can be optimized on your team, so without further ado, here we go.

I notice you lack dragon ascent on your Rayquaza; a move that is essential on all rayquaza nowadays. i also see dragon pulse, in which draco meteor is better in almost every way. therefore, draco meteor > dragon pulse and dragon ascent > water pulse are better options. also consider extreme speed > flamethrower. while you say you want a fully special rayquaza, you don't necessarily struggle against the pokemon that flamethrower beats. the priority also gives it a crucial way to get damage on faster targets and damage on pokemon with priority. draco meteor packs more immediate power and is able to pick up the knock out on less bulky primal groudon with only 4 special attack investment which is pretty crucial and helpful. dragon ascent allows rayquaza to mega evolve which is wanted on a rayogre team such as yours. a spread of 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe with a naive nature is just fine over the current one to achieve the knock out on primal groudon as said before.

your primal kyogre set is fine, though the spread could use a bit of tweaking. a spread of 252 hp / 124 def / 76 spa / 4 spd / 52 spe over your current one is better here. this spread, made by necrocat12, hits a few important benchmarks. it outspeeds all commonly seen kyogre, only being outpaced by the rare timid ones. it hits a jumpoint in special attack with the current investment with the rest invested into bulk, living attacks such as mega rayquaza's dragon ascent from full. an optional adjustment is water spout > thunder if you feel the matchup versus opposing dual primal teams is fine enough to not merit it. if you do choose to run water spout, know that the given special attack investment allows it to ohko mega kangaskhan on the switch in with water spout.

your whimsicott set is fine, but a more refined spread is 252 hp / 196 def / 60 spd with a bold nature. this spread takes an adamant kangaskhan's double edge from full with the rest dumped into special defense for good measure.

ferrothorn is a bit redundant here as you have raichu as a primal kyogre check and mega mawile as a xerneas check. talonflame > ferrothorn would be more beneficial in order to provide another check to smeargle, another form of speed control, and a back up answer to gravity.

last but not least, mega mawile has a few options it can run to hit more benchmarks in tailwind. a spread of 144 hp / 252 atk / 108 spe with adamant hits a speed of 84 which is amazing. under trick room, it under speeds the primals that have minimum speed and in tailwind hits 168 speed which outspeeds pokemon such as mega kangaskhan, xerneas, yveltal, and pre-mega rayquaza and salamence which is pretty useful. you can go faster but i wouldn't recommend going much faster than the given speed or else you lose quite a bit of bulk.

Overview:

tweak spreads on primal kyogre, whimsicott and mega mawile
tweak set on rayquaza
talonflame > ferrothorn

importable

Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Ascent
- Extreme Speed
- Protect

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 76 SpA / 4 SpD / 52 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder / Water Spout
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Whimsicott (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Taunt
- Tailwind
- Protect

Raichu (M) @ Zap Plate
Ability: Lightning Rod
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Volt Tackle
- Nuzzle
- Feint

Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Taunt
- Tailwind

Mawile-Mega (F) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 144 HP / 252 Atk / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Protect

 

[SSoeiro]

hi SSoeiro, nice rayogre team you have there, i love seeing good rayogre teams.

however, there are a few things i see that can be optimized on your team, so without further ado, here we go.

I notice you lack dragon ascent on your Rayquaza; a move that is essential on all rayquaza nowadays. i also see dragon pulse, in which draco meteor is better in almost every way. therefore, draco meteor > dragon pulse and dragon ascent > water pulse are better options. also consider extreme speed > flamethrower. while you say you want a fully special rayquaza, you don't necessarily struggle against the pokemon that flamethrower beats. the priority also gives it a crucial way to get damage on faster targets and damage on pokemon with priority. draco meteor packs more immediate power and is able to pick up the knock out on less bulky primal groudon with only 4 special attack investment which is pretty crucial and helpful. dragon ascent allows rayquaza to mega evolve which is wanted on a rayogre team such as yours. a spread of 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe with a naive nature is just fine over the current one to achieve the knock out on primal groudon as said before.

your primal kyogre set is fine, though the spread could use a bit of tweaking. a spread of 252 hp / 124 def / 76 spa / 4 spd / 52 spe over your current one is better here. this spread, made by necrocat12, hits a few important benchmarks. it outspeeds all commonly seen kyogre, only being outpaced by the rare timid ones. it hits a jumpoint in special attack with the current investment with the rest invested into bulk, living attacks such as mega rayquaza's dragon ascent from full. an optional adjustment is water spout > thunder if you feel the matchup versus opposing dual primal teams is fine enough to not merit it. if you do choose to run water spout, know that the given special attack investment allows it to ohko mega kangaskhan on the switch in with water spout.

your whimsicott set is fine, but a more refined spread is 252 hp / 196 def / 60 spd with a bold nature. this spread takes an adamant kangaskhan's double edge from full with the rest dumped into special defense for good measure.

ferrothorn is a bit redundant here as you have raichu as a primal kyogre check and mega mawile as a xerneas check. talonflame > ferrothorn would be more beneficial in order to provide another check to smeargle, another form of speed control, and a back up answer to gravity.

last but not least, mega mawile has a few options it can run to hit more benchmarks in tailwind. a spread of 144 hp / 252 atk / 108 spe with adamant hits a speed of 84 which is amazing. under trick room, it under speeds the primals that have minimum speed and in tailwind hits 168 speed which outspeeds pokemon such as mega kangaskhan, xerneas, yveltal, and pre-mega rayquaza and salamence which is pretty useful. you can go faster but i wouldn't recommend going much faster than the given speed or else you lose quite a bit of bulk.

Overview:

tweak spreads on primal kyogre, whimsicott and mega mawile
tweak set on rayquaza
talonflame > ferrothorn

Hey GradeA! Thanks for the suggestions! Some I definitely agree with and some I'm not too sure and will try to justify why I'm not sure about them. I could definitely be wrong, but I just don't quite understand the suggestion fully. Thanks again :)

Right, so for the Rayquaza; I definitely can understand wanting to have him be Mega, and I do agree he has a lot of power with it, however with some things in mind, I'm not so sure I agree with the changes. I dislike that mega-ing Ray makes his weather control weaker, and take up a mega slot. Additionally, losing Flamethrower makes me have a hard time against Ferrothorn and Mawile. Draco Meteor doesn't 0HKO Groudons with anything above 0 bulk investment, and while I agree Extreme Speed and Dragon Ascent are both very strong moves in power and priority, I think the coverage the other moves gets are quite important. Plus, I wouldn't want a SpA-lowering move like Draco or Overheat if I were going to use more than 1 special move. Nonetheless, if I am wrong in my calculations and Draco does kill Groudon and the weather control isn't as bad as I see it, then I can definitely see physical Mega Ray on my team, if I were to have a Ferro check some place else.

The Kyogre spread I will definitely take and try out for sure :) Though I think I will keep Thunder if I take your next suggestion.

I will definitely be taking a look at the Whimsi spread. I was considering not running much speed.

I can see Talonflame being great here, but may I ask; how does Talonflame counter Gravity? :o

That Mawile Spread also looks very nice!

Thanks again GradeA! :) Your suggestions are definitely appreciated!

 

[Bright Size]

Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive/Hasty Nature
IVs: 31 Atk
- Dragon Ascent
- Surf
- Overheat
- Protect

Rayquaza I would suggest running Dragon Ascent over Dragon Pulse as Dragon Pulse can be a little underwhelming and having the option to mega Rayquaza when Mawile doesn't look good to bring into a battle (I'm mainly thinking about the dual primals core here). Don't feel like you can't bring both Mawile and Rayquaza into a battle even if they can both go mega, Rayquaza is a mon that doesn't necessarily need to mega to do well. Surf does more damage to your opponents than Water Pulse does, even though it's a spread move. The rest of the team Overheat > Flamethrower because Flamethrower isn't always knocking out Mawiles like you want. The SpA drop feels nasty, but I feel that it is worth it.

252 SpA Life Orb Rayquaza Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 221-263 (140.7 - 167.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Rayquaza Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 153-182 (97.4 - 115.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 76 SpA / 4 SpD / 52 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Regarding the EV spread that GradeAGarchomp posted above, the 76SpA Modest EVs are what are used to pick up a guaranteed OHKO onto 4HP/0Def Mega Kangaskhan. Origin Pulse does not do this even with 252 SpA Modest. The spread he posted is fine; though I just want to change Water Spout > Origin Pulse and since the BP over Water Spout relies on % HP remaining of Kyogre, I put Scald > Thunder to have another Water move when the HP is low. Losing Thunder seems acceptable with Raichu and Ferrothorn along with the physical move I added to Rayquaza. I chose Scald instead of Origin Pulse because of Origin Pulse's inaccuracy and to have the ability to get around the occasional Wide Guard user like Smeargle.

Whimsicott (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Taunt
- Tailwind
- Protect

The set seems fine to me. I only want to change the EV spread a little bit. The 220 Speed EVs allow you to outspeed max Speed Thundurus by 1. I'm aware that you have Raichu on the team to help deter away Thundurus, but honestly I don't think it'd be enough for me to not want to bring Thundurus into this team because I'd bring other Pokemon to take care of Raichu. The remaining EVs were dumped into Def.

Ferrothorn (M) @ Rocky Helmet/Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / (180 Def / 180SpD)
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Protect

I personally prefer to put that remaining bulk into SpD because a lot of people will target Ferrothorn with Special Attacks rather than Physical Attacks if they can avoid it at all. For similar reasons I added an option of Leftovers over Rocky Helmet. I feel like this is your own preference here. GradeAGarchomp suggested Talonflame > Ferrothorn here which I feel is very doable, but it makes using the Primal Kyogre set I suggested a little bit harder with less answers to opposing Primal Kyogre. I feel like you can keep it if you make the change I listed for Mega Mawile.

Mawile-Mega (F) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Atk / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough/Fire Fang
- Iron Head/Fire Fang
- Sucker Punch
- Protect

So I feel like GradeAGarchomp did pretty well with the EV spread. The difference I have is that I chose to invest in more HP instead of Attack simply because I preferred the bulk. I used this spread to get 16th at Madison Regionals and it worked well for me. I didn't have any issues with the lack of Attack investment and I didn't notice the drop at all; Mega Mawile still picked up the knock outs it needed to. Finally I added the option of Fire Fang on Mawile because Steel types are still very problematic for this team; the only other ways this team seems to have to knock them out are the Fire move on Rayquaza and just hitting them hard with Primal Kyogre. I'm going to admit that I've never used Fire Fang on Mega Mawile myself though I feel like it's a solid option for this team. If needed, try going back to GradeAGarchomp's spread if you feel a lack in power.

Raichu seemed fine to me, I didn't really have any issues with it. I've used the exact same set before and I think it fits onto this team. Just note that most Primal Kyogres these days have bulk so Volt Tackle likely won't OHKO them.

 

[SSoeiro]

Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive/Hasty Nature
IVs: 31 Atk
- Dragon Ascent
- Surf
- Overheat
- Protect

Rayquaza I would suggest running Dragon Ascent over Dragon Pulse as Dragon Pulse can be a little underwhelming and having the option to mega Rayquaza when Mawile doesn't look good to bring into a battle (I'm mainly thinking about the dual primals core here). Don't feel like you can't bring both Mawile and Rayquaza into a battle even if they can both go mega, Rayquaza is a mon that doesn't necessarily need to mega to do well. Surf does more damage to your opponents than Water Pulse does, even though it's a spread move. The rest of the team Overheat > Flamethrower because Flamethrower isn't always knocking out Mawiles like you want. The SpA drop feels nasty, but I feel that it is worth it.

252 SpA Life Orb Rayquaza Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 221-263 (140.7 - 167.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Rayquaza Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 153-182 (97.4 - 115.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 76 SpA / 4 SpD / 52 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Regarding the EV spread that GradeAGarchomp posted above, the 76SpA Modest EVs are what are used to pick up a guaranteed OHKO onto 4HP/0Def Mega Kangaskhan. Origin Pulse does not do this even with 252 SpA Modest. The spread he posted is fine; though I just want to change Water Spout > Origin Pulse and since the BP over Water Spout relies on % HP remaining of Kyogre, I put Scald > Thunder to have another Water move when the HP is low. Losing Thunder seems acceptable with Raichu and Ferrothorn along with the physical move I added to Rayquaza. I chose Scald instead of Origin Pulse because of Origin Pulse's inaccuracy and to have the ability to get around the occasional Wide Guard user like Smeargle.

Whimsicott (F) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Encore
- Taunt
- Tailwind
- Protect

The set seems fine to me. I only want to change the EV spread a little bit. The 220 Speed EVs allow you to outspeed max Speed Thundurus by 1. I'm aware that you have Raichu on the team to help deter away Thundurus, but honestly I don't think it'd be enough for me to not want to bring Thundurus into this team because I'd bring other Pokemon to take care of Raichu. The remaining EVs were dumped into Def.

Ferrothorn (M) @ Rocky Helmet/Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 76 Atk / (180 Def / 180SpD)
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Protect

I personally prefer to put that remaining bulk into SpD because a lot of people will target Ferrothorn with Special Attacks rather than Physical Attacks if they can avoid it at all. For similar reasons I added an option of Leftovers over Rocky Helmet. I feel like this is your own preference here. GradeAGarchomp suggested Talonflame > Ferrothorn here which I feel is very doable, but it makes using the Primal Kyogre set I suggested a little bit harder with less answers to opposing Primal Kyogre. I feel like you can keep it if you make the change I listed for Mega Mawile.

Mawile-Mega (F) @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Atk / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough/Fire Fang
- Iron Head/Fire Fang
- Sucker Punch
- Protect

So I feel like GradeAGarchomp did pretty well with the EV spread. The difference I have is that I chose to invest in more HP instead of Attack simply because I preferred the bulk. I used this spread to get 16th at Madison Regionals and it worked well for me. I didn't have any issues with the lack of Attack investment and I didn't notice the drop at all; Mega Mawile still picked up the knock outs it needed to. Finally I added the option of Fire Fang on Mawile because Steel types are still very problematic for this team; the only other ways this team seems to have to knock them out are the Fire move on Rayquaza and just hitting them hard with Primal Kyogre. I'm going to admit that I've never used Fire Fang on Mega Mawile myself though I feel like it's a solid option for this team. If needed, try going back to GradeAGarchomp's spread if you feel a lack in power.

Raichu seemed fine to me, I didn't really have any issues with it. I've used the exact same set before and I think it fits onto this team. Just note that most Primal Kyogres these days have bulk so Volt Tackle likely won't OHKO them.

Hey Bright Size! I'm definitely much more comfortable taking that Rayquaza set. I'm not totally sure what Mega Ray Dragon Ascent 4 Atk can do, but I'm sure it's a little bit more reliable than Dragon Pulse to everything but another Dragon. I think I'll be going with this set and depend on Mawile and Kyogre to hit Dragons.

I'm a little bit hesitant to switch Thunder on Kyogre, but I definitely think I could try out the change. The spread seems like a very strong switch though.

Outspeeding Thundurus on Whimsicott is definitely important too. Will go with that instead.

Switching out Ferro for Talon and having Surf on Rayquaza seems sort of risky, but keeping Ferro seems good. I think Ill switch the defensive EVs over and keep Rocky Helmet to keep the switch in pressure on Kang there.

The Mawile Spread I agree with, however the Fire Fang I'm hesitant on. Outside of Ice Beam, there's no dragon answer on the team, so I think Play Rough is needed. However, besides Ferro, I don't have a Xern answer, so I feel Iron Head is needed :/

Thanks nonetheless for your help! :) Very useful!

 

[R-B-Y]

Hi! Here's some advice:
- try to use dragon ascent on rayquaza. It's a very powerful move. Try replacing surf with it, as surf is a little unreliable.
-I noticed you have a MAJOR fire weakness. If your Kyogre goes down, you are left a team that can easily be swept by a groudon/Xern combo.
-you are also walled flat out by ferrothorn, Dialga, and pretty much all steel types. A talonflame does wonders to eliminate these. It also gives you speed control with tailwind.
-thundurus instead of raichu if you really want to. Raichu seems nice here.
-since your team is more offensive, I reccoment you take out ferrothorn. You lose a lot of momentum using that mon.

 

[Draconid997]

Hey man :)
Thanks for moving your post over to this forum, it's clearly got a lot more attention because of this. There are a lot of suggestions I have for the team, since there are 3 key problems i see with your pokemon choices:

1. The original team as it stands has a massive weakness to kyurem-white gravity teams, which is a pretty common archetype
2. Late game groudon is a massive threat to this team, as many of the previous comments suggest
3. There are not many relatively safe counter leads to the big 6 on this team, another thing that RBY mentioned

With this in mind, the safest and simplest switch to your current team would be to replace ferrothorn with talonflame as GAG suggested, as this allows you to deal with most of the above statements decently well. If you want to have the safest matchup against all threats mentioned, whilst maintaining the same roles as your current pokemon do, then the replacement of more than one pokemon is preferred. I will be back later with all of my suggestions for your team in a much more fleshed out rate.

 

[GradeAGarchomp]

Raichu seemed fine to me, I didn't really have any issues with it. I've used the exact same set before and I think it fits onto this team. Just note that most Primal Kyogres these days have bulk so Volt Tackle likely won't OHKO them.

most primal kyogre dont run 252 hp / 180 def (which is what is needed to live volt tackle) unless it's on a trick room team since it has no room for speed which is normally ran on kyogre btw.

i think the rest of the rate is fine but i just wanted to point that out

also SSoeiro , talonflame has a good match up vs most gravity setters and it revenges kyurem-white as well.

 

[Draconid997]

most primal kyogre dont run 252 hp / 180 def (which is what is needed to live volt tackle) unless it's on a trick room team since it has no room for speed which is normally ran on kyogre btw.

i think the rest of the rate is fine but i just wanted to point that out

Also regarding the kyogre spread (and use of water spout) in the rate, 76 SpA is not just for OHKOing kangaskhan, and as GAG did mention it reaches an 11n number (or a 'bump'), giving kyogre an extra point in special attack, making the spread incredibly efficient. Water spout does indeed OHKO kang on a switch in, but origin pulse is completely usable on a set like this, so go for whatever move you like. GAG's suggested spread allows kyogre to reach this 11n number whilst speed creeping a LOT of similar kyogre spreads (most run at max 36 speed) whilst maintaining a load of physical bulk. If you want to lower the speed stat to invest more into physical bulk then you definitely can, just wanted to clear this up

 

[SSoeiro]

Hi! Here's some advice:
- try to use dragon ascent on rayquaza. It's a very powerful move. Try replacing surf with it, as surf is a little unreliable.
-I noticed you have a MAJOR fire weakness. If your Kyogre goes down, you are left a team that can easily be swept by a groudon/Xern combo.
-you are also walled flat out by ferrothorn, Dialga, and pretty much all steel types. A talonflame does wonders to eliminate these. It also gives you speed control with tailwind.
-thundurus instead of raichu if you really want to. Raichu seems nice here.
-since your team is more offensive, I reccoment you take out ferrothorn. You lose a lot of momentum using that mon.

Thank you for your suggestions! I've taken a few of them :)

I've updated my OP with an updated team that I feel fits a lot better. Main thing I'm struggling with now is the Tflame set. I like the moves, but my spread and item are probably really poor.

 

[GradeAGarchomp]

talon prefers sharp beak because it lacks power otherwise, other than that it's fine

 

[Bright Size]

most primal kyogre dont run 252 hp / 180 def (which is what is needed to live volt tackle) unless it's on a trick room team since it has no room for speed which is normally ran on kyogre btw.

I do want to mention that a lot of Primal Kyogres still go very bulky outside of Trick Room. Generally the only time I haven't really seen bulky Kyogres is when they're on Rayogre teams (like this one, but not always). The Kyogre that I ran at Madison/Kansas City Regionals was actually even bulkier than the 252HP/180Def Modest one and it wasn't on a Trick Room team; it was my Dual Primals teams. It also had Speed on it; I dropped basically all of my SpA investment for Speed investment and made it a Bold Primal Kyogre. It was a fabulous change and I didn't mind the SpA drop.

 

[Draconid997]

I do want to mention that a lot of Primal Kyogres still go very bulky outside of Trick Room. Generally the only time I haven't really seen bulky Kyogres is when they're on Rayogre teams (like this one, but not always). The Kyogre that I ran at Madison/Kansas City Regionals was actually even bulkier than the 252HP/180Def Modest one and it wasn't on a Trick Room team; it was my Dual Primals teams. It also had Speed on it; I dropped basically all of my SpA investment for Speed investment and made it a Bold Primal Kyogre. It was a fabulous change and I didn't mind the SpA drop.

Definitely agree here, want to definitely back bold kyogre since it reaches some great benchmarks that modest variants don't achieve, but i would also strongly agree to stick with the modest variant that you're currently using as bright size said. Bulky kyogre is most preferably used when you're building around double primal or other more methodical/bulky archetypes.

 

[Draconid997]

Also just a quick note, using waterfall on your rayquaza would be much easier to use than surf, as for one it allows your partner pokemon to attack, and if you want you could even run a jolly rayquaza set, since overheat will still one shot most mawile then you definitely can, so that ray has more overall bulk

 

[SSoeiro]

talon prefers sharp beak because it lacks power otherwise, other than that it's fine

Will do!

Definitely agree here, want to definitely back bold kyogre since it reaches some great benchmarks that modest variants don't achieve, but i would also strongly agree to stick with the modest variant that you're currently using as bright size said. Bulky kyogre is most preferably used when you're building around double primal or other more methodical/bulky archetypes.

Thanks! I'll look into Bold if I ever want a more defensive teamstyle :)

As for Waterfall vs Surf, I had a problem before that lead to the whole "special Rayquaza" thing. I found getting intimidated or burned or whatever really jeopardized my ability to take out Groudon with Waterfall (which was a relatively close calc to begin with, unlike Surf which is a strong calc), and if I couldn't answer Groudon with Rayquaza reliably, even at the cost of a little bit of my ally's HP, I was in big trouble.

Any other modifications you would make to my team? :o I wanna make it as good as I can so that I can get comfortable with it. Currently in the 1400s on the VGC SD ladder (highest Ive ever been aha)

 

[Bright Size]

I'd also recommend Waterfall > Surf though I tried to keep the Special Rayquaza a thing. I don't feel like Surf is necessarily bad I just feel like Waterfall is a bit better since you aren't hitting yourself and the power isn't reduced because it's a spread move. If you can deal with those two things, I think Surf can be fine.

 

[Draconid997]

Will do!



Thanks! I'll look into Bold if I ever want a more defensive teamstyle :)

As for Waterfall vs Surf, I had a problem before that lead to the whole "special Rayquaza" thing. I found getting intimidated or burned or whatever really jeopardized my ability to take out Groudon with Waterfall (which was a relatively close calc to begin with, unlike Surf which is a strong calc), and if I couldn't answer Groudon with Rayquaza reliably, even at the cost of a little bit of my ally's HP, I was in big trouble.

Any other modifications you would make to my team? :o I wanna make it as good as I can so that I can get comfortable with it. Currently in the 1400s on the VGC SD ladder (highest Ive ever been aha)

Well if you're worried about stat drops on rayquaza when using dragon ascent/overheat/from intimidate etc, then using haze crobat would allow you to alleviate these concerns and use waterfall. If you want to use haze crobat, whilst maintaining the roles that are fulfilled on your current team, then use of a team like this may be preferred instead, which gives you a much safer lead against big 6 with a combination of crobat+mega gengar:

(Importable)

Rayquaza-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Waterfall / Extreme Speed
- Overheat
- Protect

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 76 SpA / 4 SpD / 52 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Ice Beam
- Scald
- Protect

Crobat @ Lum Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 20 HP / 236 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Super Fang
- Haze
- Tailwind
- Quick Guard

Gengar-Mega @ Gengarite
Ability: Shadow Tag
Level: 50
EVs: 12 HP / 96 Def / 172 SpA / 228 Spe (Outspeeds Jolly Talonflame)
EVs: 12 HP / 96 Def / 168 SpA / 4 SpD / 228 Spe (HP Water)
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA (HP Water)
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Ice] (For Salamence) / Hidden Power [Water] (For Groudon)
- Taunt
- Protect

Weavile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off
- Feint / Low Kick

Ferrothorn @ Expert Belt
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 60 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Protect

The gengar spread is notated with a lot of stuff, so I'll explain:
- Gengar+Crobat is a very safe lead versus xerneas and smeargle, as gengar can taunt the smeargle, and haze clears xerneas/smeargle's stat boosts
- The opponent will likely lead talonflame+kangaskhan vs this pairing, so 228 Spe gengar allows it to outspeed jolly talonflames that will try to flare blitz (avoiding a quick guard)
- HP Ice is a great move if you're most worried about salamence
- HP water can be a secondary countermeasure to primal groudon, OHKOing it in the rain on a kyogre switch-in
- As a side note, a lot of big 6 users may be ready for this combo
- This combo is explained further in this relatively old article if you haven't read it:
http://nuggetbridge.com/blogs/entry/1325-big-6-killer-a-showcase-of-a-japanese-style-team/

The rest of the team is quite self explanatory, weavile takes raichu's place as thundurus counter, whilst also giving you a check to yveltal that mawile used to fulfill, as well as a possible kyurem-w check that sort of fills talonflame's role. Ferrothorn is a great kyogre/xerneas check, which fills raichu and mawile's roles. These are just some roles that come to mind, so there's probably some stuff that I've missed out so please fill me in if possible.

If you're still worried about kyurem-w, then something cool you can try out is Assault Vest Rayquaza, which is able to survive a draco meteor from it, as well as some other nice benchmarks:

Rayquaza-Mega @ Assault Vest
Ability: Delta Stream
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 4 Atk / 68 Def / 124 SpD / 68 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Extreme Speed / Overheat
- Waterfall
- Draco Meteor

Move choices are pretty self explanatory, so I'll explain this set through some calculations illustrating its bulk (another important thing to note is that it speed creeps max speed base 90s by 2 points - outspeeding landorus-t):

Defensive

• +2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 244 HP / 124 SpD Assault Vest Mega Rayquaza: 176-210 (83.4 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252+ SpA Turboblaze Kyurem-W Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 124 SpD Assault Vest Mega Rayquaza: 176-210 (83.4 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• -1 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 244 HP / 68 Def Mega Rayquaza: 180-212 (85.3 - 100.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
• 252+ Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 244 HP / 68 Def Mega Rayquaza: 175-207 (82.9 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252 Atk Choice Band Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 244 HP / 68 Def Mega Rayquaza: 183-216 (86.7 - 102.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
• 252 Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 244 HP / 68 Def Mega Rayquaza: 91-109 (43.1 - 51.6%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO
• 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 124 SpD Assault Vest Mega Rayquaza in Strong Winds: 84-100 (39.8 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
• 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 124 SpD Assault Vest Mega Rayquaza: 172-204 (81.5 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 172 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 244 HP / 68 Def Mega Rayquaza: 133-159 (63 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 172 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Fake Out vs. 244 HP / 68 Def Mega Rayquaza: 46-55 (21.8 - 26%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO
• *** Fake Out+Double-Edge does up to 101.9% from 172 Atk Kang (with 4 HP / 76 Def - Survives low kick), so this has a low chance to KO
• 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Rock Tomb (in Sun) vs. 244 HP / 68 Def Mega Rayquaza: 90-108 (42.6 - 51.1%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
• 252 SpA Mega Salamence Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 124 SpD Assault Vest Mega Rayquaza: 126-150 (59.7 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252 SpA Mega Rayquaza Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 124 SpD Assault Vest Mega Rayquaza: 168-200 (79.6 - 94.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Offensive

• 0- SpA Mega Rayquaza Draco Meteor vs. 100 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem-W: 218-260 (102.3 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 0- SpA Mega Rayquaza Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Rayquaza: 218-260 (120.4 - 143.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 4 Atk Mega Rayquaza Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Primal Groudon in Heavy Rain: 204-244 (98.5 - 117.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
• 4 Atk Mega Rayquaza Waterfall vs. 12 HP / 4 Def Primal Groudon: 136-164 (76.8 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO :(

There are a couple downsides to AV Rayquaza, and as I'm sure you're able to work out are to do with its damage output, which if you're uncomfortable with then that's totally fine.

Dialga/Boom-Room (a Telepathy Trick Room Dialga+Explosion Landorus-T/Ferrothorn/Kyogre core) is a real pain for RayOgre teams, but the most comfortable switch using your current team would probably be low kick kangaskhan over mawile and like weavile over raichu so you're not missing out on yveltal checks, but it's still an incredibly hard archetype to win against. A really interesting option that I've seen on RayOgre teams for this archetype is actually Damp Swampert, which completely nullifies Explosion Landorus-T, and has a nice double genies/salamence matchup (this would be for fun though, and I want to stress this point - swampert is not as viable as the previously mentioned switches):

Swampert @ Expert Belt
Ability: Damp
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 12 SpA / 116 SpD / 28 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Scald
- Wide Guard

Swampert fills a semi-bulky offensive support role with this set, and is one of the only pokemon in the format to have access to wide guard, which allows it to check groudon quite successfully for its partners to sweep. It is also a fantastic thundurus check, as its ground typing leaves it invulnerable to thundurus' thunderbolt and thunder wave, which can put you in a very advantageous position against groudon+thundurus leads. The EVs allow swampert to survive 3 precipice blades from jolly primal groudon from full health, as well as a water spout from timid kyogre. The speed EVs allow it to underspeed min speed primals in TR, whilst outspeeding kangaskhan inside tailwind.

Just something I thought you might find interesting.

The thing about RayOgre teams is that, although they are brilliant for offensive playstyles, they don't have much defensive synergy. When building around them, since Rayquaza already takes up a mega slot, people try to cover a specific matchup against say big 6 with gengar/crobat, or whatever else, which ends up leaving the team a lot weaker to less common archetypes like gravity spam and yveltal/groudon. What I would recommend is if you're not comfortable with some certain matchups when using the team, then try having a go with some slightly more 'balanced' archetypes, such as Yveltal/Groudon, Yveltal/Kyogre or maybe Dialga/Kyogre, just so you can see if you would prefer a little more bulk etc. Yveltal Groudon can be pretty fast and offensive, so if you want to try out a sample team just pm me for more on the subject.

I'd be happy to answer any further questions of yours if you need to ask :)
Hope I've helped, and best of luck with your team!

 

[SSoeiro]

Well if you're worried about stat drops on rayquaza when using dragon ascent/overheat/from intimidate etc, then using haze crobat would allow you to alleviate these concerns and use waterfall. If you want to use haze crobat, whilst maintaining the roles that are fulfilled on your current team, then use of a team like this may be preferred instead, which gives you a much safer lead against big 6 with a combination of crobat+mega gengar:

(Importable)

Rayquaza-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Waterfall / Extreme Speed
- Overheat
- Protect

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 76 SpA / 4 SpD / 52 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Ice Beam
- Scald
- Protect

Crobat @ Lum Berry
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 20 HP / 236 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Super Fang
- Haze
- Tailwind
- Quick Guard

Gengar-Mega @ Gengarite
Ability: Shadow Tag
Level: 50
EVs: 12 HP / 96 Def / 172 SpA / 228 Spe (Outspeeds Jolly Talonflame)
EVs: 12 HP / 96 Def / 168 SpA / 4 SpD / 228 Spe (HP Water)
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA (HP Water)
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Ice] (For Salamence) / Hidden Power [Water] (For Groudon)
- Taunt
- Protect

Weavile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Icicle Crash
- Knock Off
- Feint / Low Kick

Ferrothorn @ Expert Belt
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Atk / 60 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Protect

The gengar spread is notated with a lot of stuff, so I'll explain:
- Gengar+Crobat is a very safe lead versus xerneas and smeargle, as gengar can taunt the smeargle, and haze clears xerneas/smeargle's stat boosts
- The opponent will likely lead talonflame+kangaskhan vs this pairing, so 228 Spe gengar allows it to outspeed jolly talonflames that will try to flare blitz (avoiding a quick guard)
- HP Ice is a great move if you're most worried about salamence
- HP water can be a secondary countermeasure to primal groudon, OHKOing it in the rain on a kyogre switch-in
- As a side note, a lot of big 6 users may be ready for this combo
- This combo is explained further in this relatively old article if you haven't read it:
http://nuggetbridge.com/blogs/entry/1325-big-6-killer-a-showcase-of-a-japanese-style-team/

The rest of the team is quite self explanatory, weavile takes raichu's place as thundurus counter, whilst also giving you a check to yveltal that mawile used to fulfill, as well as a possible kyurem-w check that sort of fills talonflame's role. Ferrothorn is a great kyogre/xerneas check, which fills raichu and mawile's roles. These are just some roles that come to mind, so there's probably some stuff that I've missed out so please fill me in if possible.

If you're still worried about kyurem-w, then something cool you can try out is Assault Vest Rayquaza, which is able to survive a draco meteor from it, as well as some other nice benchmarks:

Rayquaza-Mega @ Assault Vest
Ability: Delta Stream
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 4 Atk / 68 Def / 124 SpD / 68 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Extreme Speed / Overheat
- Waterfall
- Draco Meteor

Move choices are pretty self explanatory, so I'll explain this set through some calculations illustrating its bulk (another important thing to note is that it speed creeps max speed base 90s by 2 points - outspeeding landorus-t):

Defensive

• +2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Dazzling Gleam vs. 244 HP / 124 SpD Assault Vest Mega Rayquaza: 176-210 (83.4 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252+ SpA Turboblaze Kyurem-W Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 124 SpD Assault Vest Mega Rayquaza: 176-210 (83.4 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• -1 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 244 HP / 68 Def Mega Rayquaza: 180-212 (85.3 - 100.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
• 252+ Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 244 HP / 68 Def Mega Rayquaza: 175-207 (82.9 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252 Atk Choice Band Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 244 HP / 68 Def Mega Rayquaza: 183-216 (86.7 - 102.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
• 252 Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 244 HP / 68 Def Mega Rayquaza: 91-109 (43.1 - 51.6%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO
• 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 124 SpD Assault Vest Mega Rayquaza in Strong Winds: 84-100 (39.8 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
• 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 244 HP / 124 SpD Assault Vest Mega Rayquaza: 172-204 (81.5 - 96.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 172 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 244 HP / 68 Def Mega Rayquaza: 133-159 (63 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 172 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Fake Out vs. 244 HP / 68 Def Mega Rayquaza: 46-55 (21.8 - 26%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO
• *** Fake Out+Double-Edge does up to 101.9% from 172 Atk Kang (with 4 HP / 76 Def - Survives low kick), so this has a low chance to KO
• 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Rock Tomb (in Sun) vs. 244 HP / 68 Def Mega Rayquaza: 90-108 (42.6 - 51.1%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
• 252 SpA Mega Salamence Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 124 SpD Assault Vest Mega Rayquaza: 126-150 (59.7 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252 SpA Mega Rayquaza Draco Meteor vs. 244 HP / 124 SpD Assault Vest Mega Rayquaza: 168-200 (79.6 - 94.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Offensive

• 0- SpA Mega Rayquaza Draco Meteor vs. 100 HP / 4 SpD Kyurem-W: 218-260 (102.3 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 0- SpA Mega Rayquaza Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Rayquaza: 218-260 (120.4 - 143.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• 4 Atk Mega Rayquaza Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Primal Groudon in Heavy Rain: 204-244 (98.5 - 117.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
• 4 Atk Mega Rayquaza Waterfall vs. 12 HP / 4 Def Primal Groudon: 136-164 (76.8 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO :(

There are a couple downsides to AV Rayquaza, and as I'm sure you're able to work out are to do with its damage output, which if you're uncomfortable with then that's totally fine.

Dialga/Boom-Room (a Telepathy Trick Room Dialga+Explosion Landorus-T/Ferrothorn/Kyogre core) is a real pain for RayOgre teams, but the most comfortable switch using your current team would probably be low kick kangaskhan over mawile and like weavile over raichu so you're not missing out on yveltal checks, but it's still an incredibly hard archetype to win against. A really interesting option that I've seen on RayOgre teams for this archetype is actually Damp Swampert, which completely nullifies Explosion Landorus-T, and has a nice double genies/salamence matchup (this would be for fun though, and I want to stress this point - swampert is not as viable as the previously mentioned switches):

Swampert @ Expert Belt
Ability: Damp
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 12 SpA / 116 SpD / 28 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power
- Scald
- Wide Guard

Swampert fills a semi-bulky offensive support role with this set, and is one of the only pokemon in the format to have access to wide guard, which allows it to check groudon quite successfully for its partners to sweep. It is also a fantastic thundurus check, as its ground typing leaves it invulnerable to thundurus' thunderbolt and thunder wave, which can put you in a very advantageous position against groudon+thundurus leads. The EVs allow swampert to survive 3 precipice blades from jolly primal groudon from full health, as well as a water spout from timid kyogre. The speed EVs allow it to underspeed min speed primals in TR, whilst outspeeding kangaskhan inside tailwind.

Just something I thought you might find interesting.

The thing about RayOgre teams is that, although they are brilliant for offensive playstyles, they don't have much defensive synergy. When building around them, since Rayquaza already takes up a mega slot, people try to cover a specific matchup against say big 6 with gengar/crobat, or whatever else, which ends up leaving the team a lot weaker to less common archetypes like gravity spam and yveltal/groudon. What I would recommend is if you're not comfortable with some certain matchups when using the team, then try having a go with some slightly more 'balanced' archetypes, such as Yveltal/Groudon, Yveltal/Kyogre or maybe Dialga/Kyogre, just so you can see if you would prefer a little more bulk etc. Yveltal Groudon can be pretty fast and offensive, so if you want to try out a sample team just pm me for more on the subject.

I'd be happy to answer any further questions of yours if you need to ask :)
Hope I've helped, and best of luck with your team!

Hey Draco!

Thanks for the team, I'm sure it's very good and I learned some things looking at it and the calcs, but unfortunately I really would have liked to keep Mega Mawile and I know she isn't super splashable so I wouldn't be able to add her easily and still be comfortable with the team :$

Thanks nonetheless!

 

[Draconid997]

Hey Draco!

Thanks for the team, I'm sure it's very good and I learned some things looking at it and the calcs, but unfortunately I really would have liked to keep Mega Mawile and I know she isn't super splashable so I wouldn't be able to add her easily and still be comfortable with the team :$

Thanks nonetheless!

That's totally cool man, it's your team so use whatever works for you :D
The team you're using atm is perfectly fine, I just had some concerns for big 6, which gengar/crobat fixes etc
Can't wait to see your teams later on in the format, this one was really interesting to rate so props for that :)
Best of luck!

 

[SSoeiro]

That's totally cool man, it's your team so use whatever works for you :D
The team you're using atm is perfectly fine, I just had some concerns for big 6, which gengar/crobat fixes etc
Can't wait to see your teams later on in the format, this one was really interesting to rate so props for that :)
Best of luck!

Thank you very much for the help! :D Thank you everyone! I am very satisfied with this team and am performing surprisingly well with it aha :)