Should we have a playthrough-based metagame?

[CapOfKohon]

Most metagames are based on VGC, so will a playthrough metagame (usage in the actual games, easy to obtain or evolve) work?

All I know is that the current AG, Ubers and OU will all be the lowest tiers for their stage to obtain in the game.

 

[chimp]

Am I dumb? I have no idea what you mean by a “playthrough metagame”

 

[Ununhexium]

do you mean like force people to use pokemon that are only good in game?

 

[The Mind Electric]

If tiers were based on usage in-game, every tier would be full of mythicals because all of those Pokémon would be in the lowest tiers. Sounds pretty lame.

 

[Mace]

that's called speedrunning

 

[Adeleine]

"easy to obtain or evolve" interests me

you could certainly set up like a point budget system related to obtainability

e.g. for Pokemon Red, Pidgey could cost 1 point (extremely easy to obtain), Pidgeot could cost 3 (extremely easy to access base, but you must work to level it), and Mewtwo could cost 10 (only obtainable when you beat the game)

from there, you could exclude e.g. tradeback moves (and breeding or bp tutors for later gens) that take effort beyond a standard casual playthrough

however ranking every individual pokemon could take a while because there's a lot that goes into obtainability, especially in games with big dexes, and it'd be really hard to standardize or make objective

i felt inspired so i slapped something together for half the Red/Blue dex for fully evolved pokemon, factoring availability, rarity, effort, etc.

i researched but didn't actually play these games soooo might be wrong idk

table

Pokemon	Cost	Notes
Venusaur	6	high ish level and requires excluding other starters, but free at beginning and trains through whole game
Charizard	6	^
Blastoise	6	^
Butterfree	2	lol
Beedrill	2	lol
Pidgeot	4	36 is surprisingly high
Raticate	3	20 still doubles bugs
Fearow	3	slightly out of the way i guess
Arbok	3	did you know arbok backwards spells "snake"
Raichu	6	drag a rare mouse to celadon for a rock
Sandslash	4	version exclusive
Nidoqueen	3	speedrun queen
Nidoking	3	speedrun queen
Clefable	4	clefairy 6% at best but just click stone to evo
Ninetales	4	version exclusive and later than claw mouse but can use stone
Wigglytuff	3	should be flying type
Golbat	3	good sprite it has
Vileplume	5	version exclusive, needs l20 + a rock
Parasect	4	honestly cool its in mt moon
Venomoth	5	not early and vnat bad but caught close to evo
Dugtrio	6	diglett far from evo, dugtrio kills you for a while
Persian	5	version exclusive
Golduck	6	not early
Primeape	5	version exclusive and l28
Arcanine	5	version exclusive and best catching route is opposite from celadon stone co.
Poliwrath	6	Surf/Good Rod and then backtrack for rock
Alakazam	8	abra's a meme, trade evo (Kadabra honorary 5)
Machamp	8	Machoke honorary 5
Victreebel	5	version exclusive, needs l21 and a rock
Golem	7	Graveler honorary 4

 

[Voltage]

Unironically, if I can't understand how your metagame works from like a sentence explaining what makes it work, it's a bad concept.

STABmons: "Pokemon get every move that corresponds to their typing."
Mix and Mega: "Pokemon gets stat boosts and type changes based on the Mega stones they hold."
Almost Any Ability: "Pokemon have access to almost any ability, sans a few broken ones."

A playthrough based metagame is so nebulous, it becomes very hard to nail down what the hell would actually be the general ruleset. It's not intuitive when I read the name, and even after reading some of he posts in here attempting to figure this out, I'm left feeling almost more confused than before.

Also point based metagames are trash, don't @ me.

 

[Blazade]

that's called speedrunning

It actually might be fun to combine speedrunning and multiplayer battles, honestly. Like give players 5 or 6 hours with a fresh game, nuzlocke, if you haven't beaten it in that time you lose, when the time is up you do a bo3 with your opponent.

I considered doing something like this for Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories which has its own vs battle system that nobody ever played. Rules like this are imo better than arbitrary point systems and playability tier lists, because what is good and "playable" emerges organically from the rules of the challenge itself.

 

[Mace]

It actually might be fun to combine speedrunning and multiplayer battles, honestly. Like give players 5 or 6 hours with a fresh game, nuzlocke, if you haven't beaten it in that time you lose, when the time is up you do a bo3 with your opponent.

I considered doing something like this for Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories which has its own vs battle system that nobody ever played. Rules like this are imo better than arbitrary point systems and playability tier lists, because what is good and "playable" emerges organically from the rules of the challenge itself.

Those are called randomizer races.

 

[CaffeineBoost]

point based metagames are trash, don't @ me.

technically this means random battles are trash.

 

[Blazade]

Those are called randomizer races.

Oh do people ever actually do vs matches after their races to decide the outcome? That's interesting and I'm glad if so. Better than randomizer races in other games I've tried.

 

[theotherguytm]

technically this means random battles are trash.

You're talking about a metagame that's more skilful with Dyna in it because it adds extra player choice. Ofc it's trash. We just play it because it takes 0 prep and we're lazy.

 

[CaffeineBoost]

You're talking about a metagame that's more skilful with Dyna in it because it adds extra player choice. Ofc it's trash. We just play it because it takes 0 prep and we're lazy.

hey, can you ask why i think random battles is points based? i had a really good line for that.

 

[bdt2002]

There already is one of them, it's called the Ruby & Sapphire 200 metagame.

...what, you wanted something more specific? Alright then. I personally think this is a great idea, even if I'm somehow shocked the existence of this thread didn't violate any of the OI thread rules. (Seriously, this feels like it would be better in Ruins of Alph or something, but you do you I guess.) Either way, I've got some ways this could be run in each individual game.

-Available in all main battle formats with each format having a different maximum number of Pokémon per battle, just like the Battle Tower and its many variants

-Useable Pokémon limited to the regional PokéDex of the corresponding game, with preliminary bans set on masoct Legendary Pokémon and Mythicals, as well as any other event exclusive material

-Here's the big difference between this and RS 200: For a team to be registered as eligible for cartridge-based battles, they would either have to be A. the team you completed the game with according to the Hall of Fame sequence, or B. enter the Hall of Fame on a later attempt while following the previous note. Registration would be monitored by individual Pokémon, just in case one Pokémon finds itself present in more than one team.

Additionally, the parts of each game could all be their own smaller metagames, based off various checkpoints in the game. For example, a (very shallow) metagame of only early-game Pokémon obtained before a specific Gym Badge is obtained, with level caps set accordingly. Something like that. Those level caps would be equal to the level of the checkpoint Trainer's highest leveled Pokémon. (Example: 0 Badges meta level cap in RBY would be 12-14 because of Brock.)