SPOILERS! Scarlet & Violet Leaks Thread - Data/Mechanics

[shnowshner]

i can't speak for other languages but directly combining two words to make a new one is literally how the german language works so it shouldn't be surprising that the localized names of the two donphans are this way. especially since the words are titles and thus proper nouns, having them be separate would look very off grammatically

 

[Worldie]

I think the difference is with Dynamax every Pokemon does it the same. A Dynamaxed Rotom W is going to be pretty much the same every time it does it.

A Terastalized Rotom W might be running super STAB Hydro Pump / Electric or just morph into anything to use Terra Beam (w/e it's called). Maybe it will Tera into another type but not run Terra Beam, instead using a more traditional NP / Pain Split set that exploits the new typing. Or maybe it simply won't use Tera at all. The question isn't "who will Terastalize" but more "who will do it, and what will they do with it".

Definitely, but as I said, in similar way this will "eventually" standardize. While fringe cases will happen (like the guy who Dynamaxed Incineroar in one of the final days of VGC instead of his restricted just to take out a specific thing), 90% of the time it'll be the same pokemon into same types.

My main (as only VGC and BSS player) defending point on "tera not broken" is that the consequences of Teralyzing arent as dramatic as Dynamax ones.
While the superstab is definitely worth of note, ultimately the powerboost from both superstab and regular "extra stab" terastalyzing aren't exactly higher than a Dynamax move, but are limited to a single type, don't have special effects (compared to boosting stats / setting field conditions), and don't arbitrarly make the pokemon using it bulkier enough to tank things it has no business tanking, just changes its resists/immunities.

Then again we've already been over this enough times and I am quite confident that at this point the only real answer is "we'll wait and see how it turns out".

Can't wait to use Shedinja with Terastalize.

This is also something we already went over, and it's going to just be noob bait that dies to the first sand/hail/entryhazard/toxic/wow/rockyhelmet/moldbreaker/insert another 50 things people run normally for other reasons while at same time wasting the gimmick on a useless pokemon.

And it's not even in the dex in first place, so can't be used anyway.

 

[Crimson Chris]

I honestly would love it if Tera is just not this broken mechanic. I'd rather a mechanic actually require strategy rather than it just being "I become this Unga Bunga Kaiju no matter what Pokemon I am".

 

[Talpr0ne]

The issue with Terastal is less the unpredictability (because most stuff is obvious and can easily be seen coming) and more that they just do too much damage due to it stacking with the previous STAB. It's manageable on principle but I can see it being banned in Smogon simply due to how much stuff it can break. You might see the meteor that is coming to hit you coming but that doesn't matter if you can't do anything to stop it.

Tera Blast will be limited in usage because most will prefer to just use their natural movepool, unless Tera Blast can grant them something that is *just* right and cannot be achieved with their other moves (like Ground type Volcarona), otherwise even weaker moves like Shadow Claw and Fire Punch are probably preferable because they always work and don't force you to instantly terastalize always the same Pokémon. Because of this you can likely narrow down the types a Pokémon is gonna use by their natural movepool plus that one specifically really good type that they can't normally use.

 

[Perriechu]

Can't wait to use Shedinja with Terastalize.

all the fairy typing in the world can't save shed from its fate of dying to a warm breeze

 

[zferolie]

all the fairy typing in the world can't save shed from its fate of dying to a warm breeze

Honestly i feel if you save the tera shedinja till after its checks are dead, plus have a rapid spinner and it wearing that anti weather item it should be decent.

Not that it matters atm since its not in the game, but if it does it could be fun. What would be the best tera, normal since only fighting weakness?

 

[Dive Missile]

i think unpredictability will be an issue with tera, at least in the sense that you could probably make some pretty scary lure sets with it. randomly having the right stab can make a whole team's defensive core fall apart. i hope tera doesn't get banned since it seems really fun to use but i do feel uneasy about how hard it can enable sweepers.

 

[Worldie]

Honestly i feel if you save the tera shedinja till after its checks are dead, plus have a rapid spinner and it wearing that anti weather item it should be decent.

Not that it matters atm since its not in the game, but if it does it could be fun. What would be the best tera, normal since only fighting weakness?

Fun yes, pointless also, because if you're in a position where Shedinja has no checks left, it means you've already won and you're just doing a win-more moment.

i think unpredictability will be an issue with tera, at least in the sense that you could probably make some pretty scary lure sets with it. randomly having the right stab can make a whole team's defensive core fall apart. i hope tera doesn't get banned since it seems really fun to use but i do feel uneasy about how hard it can enable sweepers.

How exactly is that different from things like power herb/grassium Z solar beam Heatran, fireblast garchomp, and other "i'll run a unexpected move to 1shot the check" lures that we see every time again?

 

[Perriechu]

Honestly i feel if you save the tera shedinja till after its checks are dead, plus have a rapid spinner and it wearing that anti weather item it should be decent.

Not that it matters atm since its not in the game, but if it does it could be fun. What would be the best tera, normal since only fighting weakness?

that's true for pretty much any Pokémon with a frail defense no? in the case of Shedinja potentially everything can check it, and something as simple as sandstorm/hail takes it out, and then there's the plethora of entry hazards. having to give Shed a pretty useless item (it needs those booties) doesn't bode well for its viability and then on top of that having to stack spinners/defoggers, i get that most teams will have these anyway, but keeping Shed alive and those spinners whilst simultaneously keeping the enemy at bay is a hard feat, and for the payoff of.. 90 base attack??

for actually looking at what type, it depends what your goal is.. (which again is impacted by Shed's stats) cause yeah you can go normal for fighting weakness but then you have the same coverage as bug/ghost, but if you go like fire/ground/water or something then uh oh, weaknesses again

 

[Critaquil]

This is also something we already went over, and it's going to just be noob bait that dies to the first sand/hail/entryhazard/toxic/wow/rockyhelmet/moldbreaker/insert another 50 things people run normally for other reasons while at same time wasting the gimmick on a useless pokemon.

And it's not even in the dex in first place, so can't be used anyway.

I dunno about noob trap, air balloon electric is gonna be garbage but in the hypothetical world where it does make it in I can see tera steel being obnoxious, immune to sand and toxic, walls all kinds of shit, (remember that shed is also counterbalanced with a high-weakness typing), I could also see ground being also annoying for similar reasons as steel, sacrificing the toxic immunity for having a better type spread on the whole, as grass and water are fairly uncommon coverage options and having an ice weakness is manageable,

 

[fratelli bc]

The unpredictability ends if we can see the tera types on team preview. It's not that hard tho. Just put the tera icon and the type name under the pokemon name.

But I doubt this would be on official games.

 

[zferolie]

Fun yes, pointless also, because if you're in a position where Shedinja has no checks left, it means you've already won and you're just doing a win-more moment.


How exactly is that different from things like power herb/grassium Z solar beam Heatran, fireblast garchomp, and other "i'll run a unexpected move to 1shot the check" lures that we see every time again?

I mean that is the nature of these games. Making different teams with different themes and trying to surprise the opponent. Its fun, but not truely meta. Hell stuff like this is what wins vgc sometimes. Dont we all remember the surprise years ago of pachirisu?

 

[Worldie]

I dunno about noob trap, air balloon electric is gonna be garbage but in the hypothetical world where it does make it in I can see tera steel being obnoxious, immune to sand and toxic, walls all kinds of shit, (remember that shed is also counterbalanced with a high-weakness typing), I could also see ground being also annoying for similar reasons as steel, sacrificing the toxic immunity for having a better type spread on the whole, as grass and water are fairly uncommon coverage options and having an ice weakness is manageable,

"air baloon steel" istantly dies to stealth rock.....

Like, let me be honest, you realize that if your wincon is a pokemon with a set that requires absolutely insane amounts of support, you may as well just... actually run a good pokemon instead?

I mean that is the nature of these games. Making different teams with different themes and trying to surprise the opponent. Its fun, but not truely meta. Hell stuff like this is what wins vgc sometimes. Dont we all remember the surprise years ago of pachirisu?

Yes, except Pachirisu wasnt a meme pokemon and was picked for a specific reason and for being antimeta, not because it was cute.

You aren't going to win VGC by using Pikachu cause it's cute.

 

[Cuddly]

no downside mentioned of tera is gonna outweigh the ability to either get an adapt stab or a 3rd stab for no offensive cost. No item slot, no nothing, gonna be obnoxious to play against. At least dmax checked itself due to how broken it was in every aspect

The downside is Pokemon Dependent. You could give an Electric type Ice moves, but that means Electric type becomes an Ice type. Some Pokemon won’t mind this and can just Terastallize after setting up, and really you are going to be boosting only 1 move 99% of the time on 1 Pokemon offensively and those moves keep their drawbacks.
Max Moves are still far more busted since it applies to all your attacking moves.
If you had a Thundurus-I with Brick Break, Fly, Foul Play, and Wild Charge, all 4 would be about the same as getting a x1.5 boost give or take, all having guaranteed secondary effects, didn’t miss, and ignored the downsides. That same Thundurus couldn’t do the same thing with Tera besides match 1 Max move in power and last the entire game. And that is also ignoring everything else about Dynamax.

 

[zferolie]

that's true for pretty much any Pokémon with a frail defense no? in the case of Shedinja potentially everything can check it, and something as simple as sandstorm/hail takes it out, and then there's the plethora of entry hazards. having to give Shed a pretty useless item (it needs those booties) doesn't bode well for its viability and then on top of that having to stack spinners/defoggers, i get that most teams will have these anyway, but keeping Shed alive and those spinners whilst simultaneously keeping the enemy at bay is a hard feat, and for the payoff of.. 90 base attack??

for actually looking at what type, it depends what your goal is.. (which again is impacted by Shed's stats) cause yeah you can go normal for fighting weakness but then you have the same coverage as bug/ghost, but if you go like fire/ground/water or something then uh oh, weaknesses again

Yeah its never going to sweep with just a 90 attack and it has so many weaknesses and issues that setting it up is rough for sure. Its just fun when that 1 time it works, or somehow it just destroys high meta teams is hilarious.

Yeah probably other typings then normal would be best. Ground probably since like you said grass and water are uncommon checks.

The unpredictability ends if we can see the tera types on team preview. It's not that hard tho. Just put the tera icon and the type name under the pokemon name.

But I doubt this would be on official games.

If the offical games dont show the teratype, should it be that showdown shows it? That seems a bit unfair

"air baloon steel" istantly dies to stealth rock.....

Like, let me be honest, you realize that if your wincon is a pokemon with a set that requires absolutely insane amounts of support, you may as well just... actually run a good pokemon instead?

Yes, except Pachirisu wasnt a meme pokemon and was picked for a specific reason and for being antimeta, not because it was cute.

You aren't going to win VGC by using Pikachu cause it's cute.

Haha true true. I never fully build teams for meta, mostly just for fun, and wacky stuff like this is what i find fun. I know they arent good vgc teams but i enjoy them.

 

[Bakugames]

tera wont be used defensively, but the fact it changes the resists and weakness of offensive mons will be very important on who actually gets to use tera. Some mons live and die by their type, and some of the more common offensive types aren't the best mono defensive types

 

[Ishiftyounot]

where did the peper pokemon line leaked?

Here you go:

Kappa Pepper

 

[Dive Missile]

How exactly is that different from things like power herb/grassium Z solar beam Heatran, fireblast garchomp, and other "i'll run a unexpected move to 1shot the check" lures that we see every time again?

different in terms of power (when compared to something like fire blast garchomp) and that a lot of mons will get access to a lot of options they usually don't have thanks to terra blast. while i think it is likely to be pretty gimmicky and inconsistent to run terra blast lure sets, it could easily add a pretty annoying level of variance into the game.

 

[spookysocialist]

There will definitely be tera used defensively. Avalugg tera typing into a steel or fairy type turn one will probably be a stall staple

 

[Critaquil]

"air baloon steel" istantly dies to stealth rock.....

Like, let me be honest, you realize that if your wincon is a pokemon with a set that requires absolutely insane amounts of support, you may as well just... actually run a good pokemon instead?

I suggest re-reading my post because nothing about this reply seems to be replying to anything I was saying. I never mentioned terra steel running air balloon, and I never said anything about shed being a wincon

 

[fratelli bc]

Here you go:

Kappa Pepper

View attachment 463671

Thank you!
I missed it while going through the pages.

I really liked it. It is not the stereotype pepper fakemon everyone guess. Kind of reminds me of Zweilows but grass.

 

[zferolie]

Here you go:

Kappa Pepper

View attachment 463671

Honestly i always thought our first fire/grass would be something like an Ent from LotR but on fire, but i like this

 

[Bakugames]

There will definitely be tera used defensively. Avalugg tera typing into a steel or fairy type turn one will probably be a stall staple

sorry let me correct myself

tera will never be used defensively and be good

 

[Worldie]

different in terms of power (when compared to something like fire blast garchomp) and that a lot of mons will get access to a lot of options they usually don't have thanks to terra blast. while i think it is likely to be pretty gimmicky and inconsistent to run terra blast lure sets, it could easily add a pretty annoying level of variance into the game.

Is it really. Once you're terastalyzed your Volcarona into a ground type to murder that Heatran that walls you, your volcarona is now a ground type. Sure it has 3 stabs, but it is now vulnerable to being demolished by Kartana and Rillaboom.
Yes, these kind of sets will let you lure in and kill a otherwise dangerous check, but you'll pay the price by now having other checks due to the new type, or being vulnerable to hazards or conditions you weren't before.

By the way people talk of it, you make it seem like "anyone will just terastalize at random into random types and win games", forgetting the fact that in same way a Teralyze can win a game, a wrong teralyze can lose it.

In the example above, say opponent has both Heatran and Kartana. You *want* to lure in Heatran to 1hko it... except you can't take that risk because after that you're letting Kartana come in for free and run your team down.
And if you are able to take out Kartana first, then sure, but you'll have had to take down Kartana first while also running effectively 3-moves Volcarona who could have instead been a regular Volcarona with Gigadrain or Psychic instead.

It's not as mindless as people make it look like, and outside the first period of memes it will likely end up requiring skill to make a "gamebreaking unexpected Teralyze" work.

Or everything is out of the window and it gets banned because we hate fun and love stall (cit: reddit)

 

[Cuddly]

all the fairy typing in the world can't save shed from its fate of dying to a warm breeze

Actually, Steeling typing would. HDBs+Steel Shedinja means (outside of some rare stuff you’ll never see) it can only be hurt by Hail, Burns, Mold Breaker, and super effective attacks.