SM OU Revising my Unconventional Magneton/Gyarados bulky core team

[Bold School]

Roughly two weeks back, I made a RMT about a team I designed around a defensive core of an Eviolite Magneton and an Assault Vest Gyarados. It worked ok. However, I still felt there were several flaws and limitations holding it back. Since I got limited suggestions or feedback on changes to make for the original post, I wound up having to do a lot of blind trial and error on my own. Let me be clear that every pokemon in the old supporting offensive core was fairly good or better. But despite having several good smaller scale synergies, they didn't necessarily all fit with every other team member or everything I needed the team to do. Increasingly, I became frustrated with how the team was becoming more about the 4 offensive pokemon and that the defensive core was becoming an after thought. At that rate, you might as well use more conventionally strong walls like Toxapex/Magearna or something like that. To make my concept worth bothering with again, I knew I needed to make changes that better supported what my unconventional defensive core can do so that they would actually shine the way I knew they could.

The result? I wound up scrapping just about everything except the Magneton/Gyarados core and rebuilding it from the ground up. Unfortunately, small changes weren't enough to cut it. I feel the end result was pretty good, though. Here is the transformation:

Old Team

Here is the link to the original post for the original team: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/unconventional-magneton-gyarados-bulky-core.3653331/

It should be emphasized that even this team was the result of a lot of trial and era to get to this point. I tried many thing to get to that point and I still ultimately chose to scrap it. Also, there were some sets and synergies I really enjoyed here like Waterium Z Hydro Cannon Greninja and Retaliate Lopunny that I may use for different teams. They just don't really fit this one.

Team Building Process #2

The Inspiration:

The main idea behind my team. These two were the only ones I didn't change. Except I decided to make Magneton shiny this time because I like its shiny and Gyarados was already shiny. Like I can't not have a red Gyarados. So I figured I might as well make both my main pokemon shiny to add a little emphases and style to it.

The Changes:

--->

The first major breakthrough I had was the realization that my team lacked sustainability and utility. Greninja had better coverage. But it didn't matter because Tornadus had much better utility for my team. Once I realized that I could sacrifice some of my offense for a better fit, it gave my team a better direction. Also, I was able to put the Z move on Tornadus and I found it worked really well.

--->

The next change I made was the Mega. As good as Mega Lopunny is, I realized I needed something with better coverage and utility. The first cool thing I realized about Manectric is it has Lightning Rod before it Mega Evolves, so you can sort of bait out the team's electric weakness to get a power up against a lot of opponents. I wanted something that could cancel out a Volt Switch and high power electric moves, even if it was a bit gimmicky and temporary. Then that becomes a powerful volt switcher with Intimidate. If you are wondering why I didn't use Tapu Koko, it's primarily because it can neither absorb an electric type move or get Intimidate. Also, I found out that powering up the very electric type moves that much of my team happens to be weak to is more than a bit counter productive here.

--->

With my special attackers out of the way, I knew I wanted my remaining two choices to be physical. This third change I made is the priority user. As much as I adore Scizor, I only had room for one primary priority user on this particular team. I needed something that was a more reliable check to some of the top offensive threats in the tier like Greninja, Volcarona, and Mega Alakazam. Golisopod has dual STAB priority and this makes it better as a counter meta pick and revenge killer.

--->

For my last change, I knew I needed something to help tie it all together. I still wanted a ground type to check electric moves since half my team is weak to it. But this time, I didn't have to force in a special attacking ground type (hard to find a good one for OU) since I needed something on the physical side anyway. Gliscor checked just about every box for me as far as what I felt my team could use. It's more sustainable than Lando-T and can even be used to check status spam. Plus, I think I would die to every Bisharp ever if half my team had Intimidate.

New Team and the Main Philosophy behind it

The New Team:

I see this new and improved team as composed of three two mon cores. There is the defensive core, the support core, and the offensive core. The defensive core is the same, just with teammates that better compliment them. Gyarados and Magneton still cover for each other's weaknesses type wise since Magneton resists electric and rock type moves while Gyarados resists fire and fighting and is immune to ground. I found the biggest problems with them is the lack of reliable recovery, Gyarados's weakness to stealth rock and strong physical attacks, and that some pokemon have overlapping coverage that can often hit both. So I put in teammate who I knew could cover for a lot of those weaknesses.

The support core is the bridge that ties the two other cores together. Regenerator and Poison Heal give my support core the sustainability that really helps out my defensive core. Gliscor can also defensively check a lot of the threats that Magneton can't because of his specific type weaknesses and that Gyarados isn't built to take, in spite of his Intimidate. Both are defoggers so that I can clear hazards for Gyaradods and Golisopod, as well as help me better take advantage of the volt/turn nature of my team. I find that it is far more important and productive for me to keep my side of the field clear and secure that than it is to set up hazards which I would likely clear out with Defog anyways. Finding chip damage really isn't much of an issue on this team.

You might find it a bit strange at first that the offensive core is comprised of pokemon from lower tiers. However, I found they actually work pretty well together and can deal with quite a lot of the meta. Manectric gives me a powerful Volt Switcher with Intimidate and coverage that wrecks a lot of the best walls and pivots in the tier. I have found Golisopod is actually one of the best priority users below Ubers, provided you have the support to keep it clear and take out pokemon that resist it's stabs.

Something else I should probably mention on this team is the speed control. It's honestly great. You have a two fast volt/turn users, a slower Volt Switch pivot, priority, and Emergency Exit. It all eases prediction and gets you a lot of clean looks.

It should be noted that you don't have to put both the Gyarados and the Magneton builds I have in the same team. I did because I wanted to do something a bit different. In theory, you could build a team with only one of either of these builds instead of both and it could still work.

The Sets:

Magneton @ Eviolite
Ability: Analytic
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 236 HP / 96 Def / 176 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Volt Switch
- Flash Cannon
- Rest

The idea behind this is the same as last time. I use Eviolite to get this pokemon to 300 HP and above 350 defense and special defense each. It's quite the mixed wall to anything that isn't super effective to it or heavily boosted. I'll also directly quote what I said before on its speed, "As a volt switcher, its speed is sort of in an odd sweet spot where it was fast enough to outspeed most tanks and gain momentum on them while also being slow enough to bring in offensive teammates after absorbing the hit from offensive threats. Volt Switch also gives it an out against most trappers." Basically, it's faster than most walls so it can often have momentum on them. Yet at the same time, it's slower than most of the offensive threats in the tier so it can often take a hit and then get a slow volt switch out.

The best way to use this pokemon is to fire off toxic, volt switch, and flash cannon in the ways that will be most destructive to the opposing team. Volt Switch is for momentum, toxic is to wear down certain walls and threats, and flash cannon is a good STAB move that does good chip damage to a lot of things. Obviously. Magneton has a surprisingly good 120 base attack and Analytic, which can make it a pain for your opponent on predicted switches.

Rest is the main form of recovery. It isn't entirely reliable, but it works great against stall and you can often get it in against many opposing walls. Sometimes even not against stall, you can get in a rest or two to keep Magneton fresh. Just be careful about becoming set up fodder. There are times where you may have to switch out before you wake up the first time.

Gyarados @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Waterfall
- Bounce
- Earthquake
- Avalanche

Again, the idea behind this is the same as last time. This set is meant to be extremely specially defensive. This pairs well with the Intimidate ability as it often forces a lot of switches when they expect it to be something else. It also really helps as an early switch in to a lot of Dragon Dance users. Yes, I sacrifice potential offensive ability like Moxie or my own potential Dragon Dance for better defense. But that's the point of the build. It's for defense. Gyarados will take a hit and does enough damage to hurt a lot of threats that aren't defensive and a few that are. Waterfall is the main STAB while Earthquake and Avalanche are coverage moves. Bounce is the surprise STAB that can be used to surprise certain grass types or fighting types like Hawlucha (Intimidate plus Bounce against an attempted Hawlucha sweep is hilarious.) if you pick your spot right.

One thing to be careful of is that it's not the best at taking unresisted physical attacks, even after Intimidate. So you may not want to wear down your wall, particularly if you need it to check something. Still, it's a good switch in to a lot of ground types, dragon types, fire types, grass types, and unboosted special attackers. You just need to pick your spots right and be wary of rock and electric coverage moves.

Tornadus-Therian @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Defog

A special attacker with the utility I desperately needed. As a flying type, it is immune to ground and is good against fighting. This helps out Magneton. Regenerator provides sustainability to be a go to switch in, Defog is necessary for the team, Knock Off can mess up the opponent's plans, and U-Turn makes this a nice fast pivot. Hurricane is frustrating to use out of the rain at times, but I found that this is one of the few pokemon that makes it worth it. Flyinium Z is a powerful nuke that can be a good surprise factor and the guaranteed hit eases the pain of what is otherwise 70% accuracy.

Pro tip: Defog can be used to also hit Hurricane just a little bit more if they don't switch out. It's not a huge difference but it does lower their evasiveness by a bit.

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 132 Def / 132 SpD
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Defog

The flying type makes it immune to ground and resist fighting while the ground type makes it an all important electric immunity. Poison Heal and Toxic Orb give it sustainability and make it a counter to status spam once it activates. Just be careful not to get status or a knock off before Toxic Orb activates. I made Gliscor to be more physically defensive than anything else. (It has much higher natural physical defense than special defense.) This make it a great complimentary physical wall to Magneton as it can take most of the physical attacks that it's partner can't. However, I also put in enough special defense EVs where it can take at least a little abuse combined with the HP investment. I honestly felt speed wasn't as important here and so I put the recommended speed EVs for this build into special defense instead. This is my second hazard clearer and that's obviously what Defog is for.

From an offensive standpoint, Earthquake is pretty much the best STAB move it can get and the ground coverage is great for my team. Ice Fang hits pretty much everything that is immune to ground type (which are usually part dragon and/or flying type) and most grass types (that also resist ground) for super effective damage. It also hits 4X weak mons like Landorus-Therian, which let's this be a direct counter and viable switch in. It generally has enough attack to significantly damage squishy opponents. Swords dance makes up for the lack of attack investment and allows it to be a slower paced wall breaker against tankier opponents or Lando-T.

Golisopod @ Choice Band
Ability: Emergency Exit
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Aqua Jet

The priority user. Choice Band is really necessary here to ensure KOs on everything you need to KO and do good chip damage on most everything else that doesn't resist you. The best way to use this is to bring it in clean or on a resisted hit to threaten a lot of the attackers in the tier or as a revenge killer. From there, you can either use the corresponding priority move or predict a switch and use a heavy damage Choice Band Liquidation or Leech Life on a predicted switch. Leech Life is also incredibly handy to out sustain certain opponents and/or potentially get more uses out Emergency Exit. Since you don't have a healing berry, Leech Life is really the only way you can accomplish this. Emergency Exit is usually great for getting a free pivot when the volt/turn spam slows to a stop or whatever. Like it's just another way to grab momentum.

Golisopod is secret counter meta. Yes, I'm talking about in OU (although not just in OU) and I'm 100% serious. You have to keep it clean (free of hazards and burns) and take out certain walls to really see it's effectiveness really shine. This may be the reason why it's relegated to lower tiers. But if you can do that, it is frighteningly good at checking most of the best offensive threats in the OU tier. And don't worry, I have examples:

Proof of Golisopod's Effectiveness in OU

Things Golisopod 1HKOs with Priority:

1. Ash-Greninja - First Impression does 227.3 - 268% and outspeeds priority Water Shuriken. And you know that if it one shots Ash-Greninja by that much, the normal one gets OHKO'd as well.

2. Mega-Alakazam - First Impression does 263.7 - 311.5% of its health. Alternatively, Aqua Jet is an amusing 2HKO at 58.9 - 69.7% where Alakazam can Trace Emergency Exit and not be able to fight back after the first hit due to being forced out. From there, it's in range of the second Aqua Jet. This one is niche, but worth remembering if you want to use Aqua Jet to threaten the opposing team instead of a one and done attack.

3. Mega-Latias - First Impression does 110.4 - 130.2% even with max HP investment.

4. Mega-Latios - First Impression does 156.1 - 184% of it's health and there's nothing it can do about it.

5. Mega-Medicham - First Impression does 102.6 - 121%. Another guaranteed unassisted 1HKO.

6. Volcorona - Aqua Jet does 96.4 - 113.8% on the offensive Quiver Dance set. 75% chance to OHKO becomes 100% after one pivot move, even U-Turn from Tornadus. The Bulky Quiver Dance set has a bit more survivability. Aqua Jet only does 68 - 80.9% to the bulky set. But even that is a guaranteed KO after either Volt Switch.

7. Excadrill - The Sand Rush set is dealt 87.8 - 103.3% by Aqua Jet. You need a bit of chip to ensure a KO and/or counter the focus sash build. But you do still have the chsnce to OHKO it.

8. Reinculous - First Impression does 96.2 - 113.2% to the bulky defensive Calm Mind set. That's a 75% chance to 1HKO the set that has maxed defensive EV investment on a defensive wall. Even then, any chip damage makes that 100%. Less defensively invested sets are all guaranteed OHKOs.

9. Tangrowth - First Impression does 95.7 - 113.1% on the Assault Vest set. 75% chance to 1 shot it and obviously any chip should seal the deal every time. Even against Physically Defensive Tangrowth, First Impression still does 74.4 - 87.8%.. This can be very useful for finishing it off.

10. Tyranitar - First Impression does 113.3 - 133.6% against the OU Stealth Rock set with 136 EVS in HP. Against OU Assault Vest, it does 109.3 - 128.9%. That set has 224 HP EVs. But neither have defensive EVs. Even a Max physically defensive Tyranitar with 252 EVs in both HP and Defense and an Impish Nature will still get smacked for 78.7 - 92.5%. Even against the Mega, the OU Stealth Rock set still takes 86.6 - 102.3% from First Impression. I'm not going to go through every set and scenario. But many of them undeniably lead to OHKO opportunities.

11. Serperior - First Impression does 169 - 200% to the Choice Scarf set.

12. Weavile - First Impression does 235.5 - 278.2% to the Choice Band set.

13. Hoopa-Unbound - First Impression does a hilarious 462.1 - 543.6% to the Choice Band set.

14. Hydreigon - First Impression does 157.5 - 186.4% to the OU Darknium Z set. I'm pretty sure no set would live it, though.

15. Mew - First Impression does 111.2 - 131.6% to the OU Defensive set.

16. Venusaur - First Impression does 90.6 - 106.9% to the sun sweeper set I see run occasionally in OU.

17. Bisharp - First Impression does 86.7 - 102.2%, which is only about an 18.8% chance to OHKO. However, it becomes 100% after any chip from pivot users.

So I just pulled over 15 pokemon that are viable in OU and can get 1 shot by Golispod, and that's just with its priority. This does not even include OHKO's from Liquidation or Leech Life on predicted switches, things Golisopod can take out with priority after more than minimal chip damage, some favorable 2 hit KOs on Aqua Jet, or other good matchups. For example, Golisopod can counter Mega Swampert in the rain as most of its attacks do under 25% to Golisopod while Golisopod does over half with either of Liquidation or Leech Life. Leech Life also heals 28.9 - 34.2%, which is not too shabby for being a 2HKO. I could go on but this is getting long.

The point is that this thing counters a good deal of the current Meta Game.

Manectric @ Manectite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Ice]

The primary coverage attacker. It turns out powerful electric type moves are good. Surprise! Volt Switch is for the fast pivot role and Thunderbolt is just a more powerful STAB. Flamethrower 1HKOs Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Kartana while also being able to finish off some other steel or grass types types if they are hurt. Hidden Power Ice is used to 1HKO pokemon that are 4X weak to it like Garchomp, chipped Dragonite, Gliscor, and Landorus-Therian. But I mostly just like killing any non-scarfed Lando-T, as Mega Manectric outspeeds all other variants and KOs it with HP Ice. I guess the other stuff is cool, too. This combination coverage can do serious harm to many of the most annoying walls in the tier, including Ferrothorn, Toxapex, Tapu Fini, Celesteela, Gliscor, and also that one troll Azumarill set. This clears the way for the rest of my team.

Lightning rod on normal Manectric is for a gimmicky electric type move bait. It doesn't always work, but the threat of it sometimes even keeps my opponent using coverage moves instead of electric moves, which can be good or bad. Either way, my team appreciates just have something else to help mitigate the electric weakness, even if it's a bit of a wonky try hard method. Beyond that, this is just a fast electric type pivot with Intimidate and good coverage. Pretty self explanatory.

Main Threats

This team does really well against a lot of the most common and highest ranked pokemon in the OU tier. It's sometimes the lesser threats which give this team more trouble. I can work with that since most of them aren't run as often as the really scary stuff for my team.

Worst Counters:

Kyurem-Black - This one is just about coverage and bulk. Its too bulky for Tornadus or Golisopod to usually take it out in one hit. Same for Manectric since it resists electric moves. It's ice coverage isn't great for two of my 3 flying types. And most of my other pokemon can't check it because they usually carry electric coverage in the form of Fusion Bolt. So normally this is where Magneton would really shine. The problem is most of the Kyurem-Black sets I face lately have Earth Power for coverage. So I have nothing that can 1 shot it and nothing that can take all of it's coverage.

I found the best answer is to just bite the bullet and use Magneton anyway, hope it doesn't carry ground coverage, and return fire with a super effective flash cannon. If it does carry ground coverage than Magneton is often bulky enough to usually barely live on Earth Power and can do more than enough chip to set it up for a revenge kill or something. Magneton has to be healthy for this. Obviously, this is far from ideal. But it's the best this team has. Another problem is any item that boosts the damage of Kyurem's attacks (or at least Earth Power) will turn that into a OHKO on Magneton anyway. Choice can be played around. But the Life Orb set is pretty scary against my team. Luckily, I don't see it that much.

Victini - A similar problem to the example above, albeit not quite as bad. It's not too tanky. Yet it is bulky enough where Golisopod doesn't one shot it, except with Liquidation which is too slow. This creates problems for my team as nothing I have really wants to switch into V-Create. Obviously, fire type STAB means Magneton can't take it. But it usually carries electric coverage in the form of Bolt Strike or something. Gliscor is the best option for dealing necessary chip damage with Earthquake. But V-Create is so powerful that it still does roughly half it's HP, making a direct switch-in unwise. Sometimes I can play mind games and get Gliscor in relatively cleanly. Other times this forces me to sac a Pokemon or two.

Tyranitar - Following a similar vein of bulky attackers, this is once again a problem because of coverage and my inability to inherently know if I can one shot it. This time it's rock/ground coverage. Rock hits most of my team hard and ground hits nearly everything else. Gliscor is my best answer to it. But sometimes it carries ice coverage, which wrecks me. Still, Gliscor is the best bet for doing the necessary chip damage on it. This is probably where the lack of a fighting move on my team hurts the most. Even without that, First Impression can one shot many of the Tyranitar sets that aren't particularly physically defensive. But this can get risky with exposing it to rock type STAB if the hit isn't a 1HKO and many of them require prior chip damage, especially on the Mega. Sometimes, I'll be forced into sending Golisopod into Stealth Rock to check Tyranitar, and it will either wallop me on the switch in or switch out and turn me into stealth rock bait for no gain. So Golisopod is not the most reliable check for this one in every situation. Unfortunately, it usually takes a lot of maneuvering around Tyranitar to get into position to take it out with Golisopod.

Tapu Lele - As you can imagine, psychic terrain isn't good to a team where a priority abuser like Golisopod is such a staple. The worst thing is scarfed since it outspeeds my Manectric and Tornadus-Therian. However, both my defensive core pokemon (Magneton/Gyarados) have enough special defense to generally live a hit or two and return the favor. Flash Cannon is particularly good against it. Since Tapu Lele isn't usually very defensive, it can be brought down by my walls. The primary dilemma is figuring out if it is scarfed. If not, then getting chip damage so Tornadus or Manectric can finish it is sometimes preferable. If it's choiced, then using the wall that best counters the move it's locked into and attacking back is the way to go.

The biggest problem, though, is that seeing Tapu Lele on an opposing team basically forces me to keep my defensive core at high health until I can deal with it. Since they don't have reliable recovery, this drastically reduces their effectiveness because I'm pretty much required to be careful and keep both of them fresh just to prevent this thing from going wild.

Needs Caution:

Landorus-Therian - The ever present threat of OU. You simply can't build a team in this tier without factoring this thing into it. It's not that my team can't deal with it. It's that my team has to be very careful with it. Now I do have about 4 or 5 ways to deal with Landorus-Therian. Sometimes, my Tornadus-Therian can check it. But I have to be careful of rock type coverage. The best answer is Gliscor since one condition I required of that set is that it could specifically counter this pokemon. If it isn't scarfed, then Mega-Manectric can also outspeed and one shot it with HP Ice. If it's locked into moves that aren't rock type, then Golisopod and/or Gyarados can often check it. Golisopod can also finish it off with Aqua Jet after decent chip damage. Magnezone is often good bait, since ground types are attracted to blocking Volt Switch. Analytic boosted Flash Cannon or Toxic on a predicted switch can be good to help wear Landorus down to bring it in range of being more easily dealt with.

Bisharp - This thing has Defiant and Sucker Punch. I have two intimidate mons on my team. It's not a total counter. Gliscor can check it. You just have to be careful not to be baited by it. Also, Golisipod can OHKO it with First Impression, but it's less than a 20% chance. However, it can be 100% after chip from a single U-Turn or Volt Switch pivot into Golisopod. So there is that.

Zapdos - The pokemon really just walls my team fairly well and Tornadus and Golisopod can't really do anything to it. Since it normally carries Heat Wave, Magneton can't check it. Gliscor often needs more time to set up on it than it can get, as most sets are physically defensive and unlikely to be too bothered by unboosted Frost Fang. And while Gliscor is immune to electric STAB, it isn't specially defensive enough to take a million Heat Waves, either. Sometimes, Zapdos also carries HP Ice, which wrecks Gliscor. The key is to get this bird in range of my Mega-Manectric. Sometimes I do this with Gliscor and sometimes I try to scheme a Toxic onto it. Other times, I try to bait a Lightning Rod power up from Manectric to try to take it out that way.

Tapu Koko - It's a strong electric type that most of my team has trouble KOing in one move. Gliscor is too slow for it. Since half my team is weak to this typing, this can be a problem. So can electric terrain boosting the power. Luckily, I had the foresight to have the other half of my team counter electric type moves in some way. Gliscor is a good immunity to take a hit and force it out, but sometimes falls victim to Hidden Power and/or coverage moves. Manectric can sometimes hurt Tapu Koko by baiting a Lightning Rod power up and simultaneously taking advantage of the electric terrain power boost it's electric STAB while blocking Tapu Koko from doing the same. Then it can Mega-Evolve to finish it off. However, this can be risky since Manectric is made of glass and doesn't take chip from many coverage moves well. So timing for that is crucial. When in doubt, the safest option is to switch into Magneton. It won't block it from switching out. But it will take pretty much every hit. The funny thing is that sometimes my Manectric and Magnezone can take advantage of Electric Terrain with brutal Volt Switch chains.

Tapu Bulu - The main problem is just that it's bulky and most of my pokemon don't one shot it. Even things that resist it don't really want to take Choice Band Wood Hammer, which is the most dangerous set to my team. However, Tornadus does one shot it with Hurricane. Magneton can also generally live one and Flash Cannon back. So it more just requires decent planning and foresight.

Charizard - It can be a problem since Golisopod can't one shot the Megas. Main issue here is figuring out what it's running. Gyarados counters most Y sets while Gliscor is the best answer for most X sets. Sometimes you can predict it easily and sometimes it's hard to know. The Mega-X set is more dangerous because Dragon Dance gives it speed. Gyarados can be an ok switch into X, so long as you are wary of the speed upgrade. So it can be a decent scout before switching to Gliscor if it's X or staying in on Y.

I was going to add some more sections on strategies and replays, but this is already getting ridiculously long. I think I have sufficient information for the time being. Let me know what you think.

 

[Ronneberg]

Hello there,
I can kind of see what you were trying to achieve with this team, the sets and Pokémon you use are unconventional, but that doesn‘t mean they can‘t pull their own weight. Obviously, you were trying to sort of unhinge the popular builds in OU, but in my opinion and experience, that is not very effective in the long run.
Despite you having taken into account a lot of things, this team bends to conventional cores that are played properly, fire/water/grass balance with competent support can deal with it easily, rain if played right causes huge trouble and I think the things this team can achieve can also be achieved with a competently built team utilizing more conventional team choices. And as much as I like the set and idea behind Eviolite Magneton, I just don‘t see it.
I can see this team get juggled around by many different build styles, Sableye stall sees no trouble, many balance builds don‘t either and god knows what offense is up to.
However. That doesn‘t mean the team is bad, far from it. I personally like the idea and the team in and of itself, it‘s just not that hot. The team won‘t appreciate entry hazard pressure, there is a distinct lack of breaking capability and in and of itself, someone who knows what the key players you chose can and can‘t do will have no trouble dismantling the team.
Banded Golisopod is also something that bugs me. Not that it‘s a „bad“ set, Golisopod just really doesn‘t appreciate being locked into something.
Now to the main thing I will criticize here. You have no entry hazard setter. None. Nada. Niente.
This means that balance and stall are going to walk right over you with no hesitation, as they can just switch around unpenalized. Golisopod learns Spikes, Gliscor learns Stealth Rock, you have two defoggers, but no entry hazard setter.
Also, Gliscor doesn‘t have Roost, a big no no because only Poison Heal simply isn‘t enough and it will get worn down quickly once the opponent has figured that out.
The effectiveness of the team relies a bit on surprise factor, once your opponent has figured out the sets, he can play around them easily, something balance and stall have no trouble doing. And in terms of opposing offense, BO or dual screens can withstand your offense without huge trouble, enabling them to put dents in your crucial key players and open up doors for far bigger threats. Once your team starts losing members, it gets ludicrously vulnerable as I see it.

All that sounds harsh, but the reality is far lighter as you probably know. No team is perfect and even the best teams out there still struggle with something, the metagame is just too volatile and diverse.
With all that being said, keep it real,
peace

 

[Bold School]

First of all, thank you for the rate. I appreciate the time you took to look into this. Second, I want to apologize since it appears I didn't do an adequate enough job at explaining how the team is used. This is evidenced by some of the things you claim to be issues with the team. Not all of them. Just a few of them. In the end, it's probably my own fault. I was a bit worried about cutting out my strategy and replay section for this reason. So I'll try to be thorough here.

The team has a bit of a strong learning curve since a lot of it is so unconventional. Some things you need to do are sort of counter intuitive. For instance, there are times where Gliscor and/or Tornadus need to be used as pivots more since they have more reliable recovery than the defensive core. A good deal of the gameplay here is figuring out what you need to counter the opponent's threats and matching yourself up accordingly to do that. Sometimes you have to choose to sac the right thing for the situation versus the wrong thing. But that's just how pokemon works.

As it is unconventional, I also fully understand that this team won't be for everyone. That's pretty much the deal with an unconventional team. It's ok if it doesn't resonate with you or anyone else. The play style is weird. That's why I like it.

Despite you having taken into account a lot of things, this team bends to conventional cores that are played properly, fire/water/grass balance with competent support can deal with it easily, rain if played right causes huge trouble and I think the things this team can achieve can also be achieved with a competently built team utilizing more conventional team choices. .

This team shouldn't just automatically lose to what you just mentioned. At least not in such a broad and vague way. With all due respect, any conventional core doesn't really describe what should beat you when this team counters a lot of the meta. You keep using the qualifier of if they play right. I mean, most teams can win if the opponent outplays you. But then again, this team should let you position yourself really well to dictate most of the matchups since it is volt/turn. So is there anything specific that is giving you trouble outside of my threats list? You really shouldn't be steamrolled by everything unless you are having trouble adjusting to the team's gameplay. Again, this could also be my fault for inadequate explanations on how to play it. So sorry if I blew it there.

You mention fire, water, and grass cores. I find this sort of puzzling. Water types simply shouldn't be a problem with Manectric, Gyarados, and Magneton on the team. Outside of Victini, Gliscor and Gyarados check most fire types in the tier pretty well and Golisopod can finish a lot of them off with Aqua Jet after chip damage. Strategies for dealing with grass types are varied. But you also have Tornadus-Therian to deal with most grass types. And depending on the grass pokemon, they can generally be checked or finished off by one or more of Gyarados (part flying type), Magneton, Gliscor, Golisopod, or Manectric. Half the team has ice coverage and Manectric has flamethrower.

Rain also shouldn't cause you trouble since Gyarados or Golisopod can check Mega Swampert in the rain and you can put a ton of electric type pressure on the rest. I almost never have problem with facing rain unless I seriously screwed up in the match.

And as much as I like the set and idea behind Eviolite Magneton, I just don‘t see it

Is there any specific reason why you are down on it? It's essentially like a different variant on the Assault Vest Magearna set with Volt Switch, except different typing, better defense, and the ability to use passive moves. It's not just this team concept either. I tested this in different teams away from the Gyarados set and it works quite well. At least it does for me.

Sableye stall sees no trouble

Most stalls I face aren't really trouble since rest recovery becomes more reliable against stall for my Magneton and they generally aren't threatening enough to critically damage Gliscor. Like there are almost always turns where they are wishing or switching or protecting where Gliscor just heals up. So I rarely find it's a problem when I use Magneton and Gliscor (which has swords dance btw) as my main tools to threaten stall and run the team that way. Tornadus is also often good at disrupting stall.

I suppose Sableye can be tricky. Maybe I should have put it under threats. Golisipod can often OHKO the non mega evolved version with First Impression if you are baiting out a Prankster burn attempt, but this is risky and doesn't KO against every set. Though sometimes against stall, you don't really need Golisopod. So sometimes you risk the burn to weaken Sabeleye enough to threaten it with something else.

Other than that, I find the best thing to do is use Gliscor (after Toxic Orb activates) to Swords Dance and either finish it with earthquake or at least chip it enough to finish it off with Golisopod. But this can be hard to start with if Sabeleye is leading since Gliscor hates burn. Also, Gliscor can't take too many special attacks.

Now to the main thing I will criticize here. You have no entry hazard setter. None. Nada. Niente.
This means that balance and stall are going to walk right over you with no hesitation, as they can just switch around unpenalized. Golisopod learns Spikes, Gliscor learns Stealth Rock, you have two defoggers, but no entry hazard setter.
Also, Gliscor doesn‘t have Roost, a big no no because only Poison Heal simply isn‘t enough and it will get worn down quickly once the opponent has figured that out.

Most of this was actually by design. Trust me, I tested this and the team was far better with more hazard removal. I did actually explain this a little in one of my sections. Basically, the need to keep Golispod and Gyarados clean makes it far more important to secure hazard removal throughout most stages of the game than it is for me to set them. And having two defoggers means I'm more likely to wipe my own hazards anyway.

I think the biggest thing here is you probably are just really used to relying on hazards. It's true that a lot of teams need them. However, this team is a Volt/Turn team. You get your chip damage from that and dealing damage on predicted switches, not from hazards. It shouldn't matter if your opponent is switching around because you should still be able to dictate match ups in most cases. Although, this is much harder to do if your opponent has hazards that makes your switching around less effective. That's another reason you need to secure the removal.

The roost criticism is warranted. But I needed the other moves more. My Scizor's role is probably a bit hard to grasp. Sword's Dance makes is a slow pace wall breaker against stall, where stall typically can't do enough damage to it and there are many breaks where Gliscor can heal up on passive moves and switches or whatever. Against teams that put on more pressure, Gliscor can generally hit back enough where it doesn't need to survive forever. It just needs to counter certain threats, unless there are certain specific things the opponent has that it needs to be saved for.

If you must, you can swap out defog for roost or stealth rock. But this will screw you over in a lot of games and make having to save Tornadus all the more important. It makes the team much more fragile.

The effectiveness of the team relies a bit on surprise factor, once your opponent has figured out the sets, he can play around them easily, something balance and stall have no trouble doing. And in terms of opposing offense, BO or dual screens can withstand your offense without huge trouble, enabling them to put dents in your crucial key players and open up doors for far bigger threats. Once your team starts losing members, it gets ludicrously vulnerable as I see it.

This is sort of true and sort of not. The surprise factor is important. The issue I have is this is a volt/turn team. So you should be dictating match ups far more than you sound like you are doing. This requires some prediction and finesse. It's not one of those auto-pilot volt/turn teams. However, this team has so many ways to grab or keep momentum that you really shouldn't be played around as easily as you describe here by apparently everything you face. Again, I apologize if I didn't correctly describe how to play the team well enough.

Against stall, Magneton, Gliscor, and Tornadus have the recovery to mostly deal with it. Against hyper offense, Golisopod and Manectric do really well at taking out a lot of a threats. Against balance, you need to dictate the matchups in your favor so that you have momentum for most of the game and can use that to punch holes in their team before they do the same to you. Against bulky offense, you need to make sure your chip game is up to par so you can finish them off. Against duel screens, you typically have enough defensive ability on the team where you can just wait it out until a round of screens is gone and/or you can take out the screener. Etc. I can't be more specific than this because you are talking about entire vast and vague archetypes that may require different approaches from team to team. For instance, facing dual screen Tapu Koko requires a different approach than facing Aurora Veil Alolan Ninetails, even though Magneton can be used for both.

As for losing members, you have to make sure you prioritize keeping the ones you need to counter the opponent. If you have to sac a mon, don't be afraid to sacrifice something you need less than something else you need more in that situation. Obviously, you don't want to sac if you can help it. Sometimes it's unavoidable, though, and that's just how competitive pokemon works. Keep in mind that Emergency Exit can be used in many situations as a reset to avoid having to sac a pokemon.

 

[Ronneberg]

First of all, thank you for the rate. I appreciate the time you took to look into this. Second, I want to apologize since it appears I didn't do an adequate enough job at explaining how the team is used. This is evidenced by some of the things you claim to be issues with the team. Not all of them. Just a few of them. In the end, it's probably my own fault. I was a bit worried about cutting out my strategy and replay section for this reason. So I'll try to be thorough here.

The team has a bit of a strong learning curve since a lot of it is so unconventional. Some things you need to do are sort of counter intuitive. For instance, there are times where Gliscor and/or Tornadus need to be used as pivots more since they have more reliable recovery than the defensive core. A good deal of the gameplay here is figuring out what you need to counter the opponent's threats and matching yourself up accordingly to do that. Sometimes you have to choose to sac the right thing for the situation versus the wrong thing. But that's just how pokemon works.

As it is unconventional, I also fully understand that this team won't be for everyone. That's pretty much the deal with an unconventional team. It's ok if it doesn't resonate with you or anyone else. The play style is weird. That's why I like it.



This team shouldn't just automatically lose to what you just mentioned. At least not in such a broad and vague way. With all due respect, any conventional core doesn't really describe what should beat you when this team counters a lot of the meta. You keep using the qualifier of if they play right. I mean, most teams can win if the opponent outplays you. But then again, this team should let you position yourself really well to dictate most of the matchups since it is volt/turn. So is there anything specific that is giving you trouble outside of my threats list? You really shouldn't be steamrolled by everything unless you are having trouble adjusting to the team's gameplay. Again, this could also be my fault for inadequate explanations on how to play it. So sorry if I blew it there.

You mention fire, water, and grass cores. I find this sort of puzzling. Water types simply shouldn't be a problem with Manectric, Gyarados, and Magneton on the team. Outside of Victini, Gliscor and Gyarados check most fire types in the tier pretty well and Golisopod can finish a lot of them off with Aqua Jet after chip damage. Strategies for dealing with grass types are varied. But you also have Tornadus-Therian to deal with most grass types. And depending on the grass pokemon, they can generally be checked or finished off by one or more of Gyarados (part flying type), Magneton, Gliscor, Golisopod, or Manectric. Half the team has ice coverage and Manectric has flamethrower.

Rain also shouldn't cause you trouble since Gyarados or Golisopod can check Mega Swampert in the rain and you can put a ton of electric type pressure on the rest. I almost never have problem with facing rain unless I seriously screwed up in the match.



Is there any specific reason why you are down on it? It's essentially like a different variant on the Assault Vest Magearna set with Volt Switch, except different typing, better defense, and the ability to use passive moves. It's not just this team concept either. I tested this in different teams away from the Gyarados set and it works quite well. At least it does for me.



Most stalls I face aren't really trouble since rest recovery becomes more reliable against stall for my Magneton and they generally aren't threatening enough to critically damage Gliscor. Like there are almost always turns where they are wishing or switching or protecting where Gliscor just heals up. So I rarely find it's a problem when I use Magneton and Gliscor (which has swords dance btw) as my main tools to threaten stall and run the team that way. Tornadus is also often good at disrupting stall.

I suppose Sableye can be tricky. Maybe I should have put it under threats. Golisipod can often OHKO the non mega evolved version with First Impression if you are baiting out a Prankster burn attempt, but this is risky and doesn't KO against every set. Though sometimes against stall, you don't really need Golisopod. So sometimes you risk the burn to weaken Sabeleye enough to threaten it with something else.

Other than that, I find the best thing to do is use Gliscor (after Toxic Orb activates) to Swords Dance and either finish it with earthquake or at least chip it enough to finish it off with Golisopod. But this can be hard to start with if Sabeleye is leading since Gliscor hates burn. Also, Gliscor can't take too many special attacks.



Most of this was actually by design. Trust me, I tested this and the team was far better with more hazard removal. I did actually explain this a little in one of my sections. Basically, the need to keep Golispod and Gyarados clean makes it far more important to secure hazard removal throughout most stages of the game than it is for me to set them. And having two defoggers means I'm more likely to wipe my own hazards anyway.

I think the biggest thing here is you probably are just really used to relying on hazards. It's true that a lot of teams need them. However, this team is a Volt/Turn team. You get your chip damage from that and dealing damage on predicted switches, not from hazards. It shouldn't matter if your opponent is switching around because you should still be able to dictate match ups in most cases. Although, this is much harder to do if your opponent has hazards that makes your switching around less effective. That's another reason you need to secure the removal.

The roost criticism is warranted. But I needed the other moves more. My Scizor's role is probably a bit hard to grasp. Sword's Dance makes is a slow pace wall breaker against stall, where stall typically can't do enough damage to it and there are many breaks where Gliscor can heal up on passive moves and switches or whatever. Against teams that put on more pressure, Gliscor can generally hit back enough where it doesn't need to survive forever. It just needs to counter certain threats, unless there are certain specific things the opponent has that it needs to be saved for.

If you must, you can swap out defog for roost or stealth rock. But this will screw you over in a lot of games and make having to save Tornadus all the more important. It makes the team much more fragile.



This is sort of true and sort of not. The surprise factor is important. The issue I have is this is a volt/turn team. So you should be dictating match ups far more than you sound like you are doing. This requires some prediction and finesse. It's not one of those auto-pilot volt/turn teams. However, this team has so many ways to grab or keep momentum that you really shouldn't be played around as easily as you describe here by apparently everything you face. Again, I apologize if I didn't correctly describe how to play the team well enough.

Against stall, Magneton, Gliscor, and Tornadus have the recovery to mostly deal with it. Against hyper offense, Golisopod and Manectric do really well at taking out a lot of a threats. Against balance, you need to dictate the matchups in your favor so that you have momentum for most of the game and can use that to punch holes in their team before they do the same to you. Against bulky offense, you need to make sure your chip game is up to par so you can finish them off. Against duel screens, you typically have enough defensive ability on the team where you can just wait it out until a round of screens is gone and/or you can take out the screener. Etc. I can't be more specific than this because you are talking about entire vast and vague archetypes that may require different approaches from team to team. For instance, facing dual screen Tapu Koko requires a different approach than facing Aurora Veil Alolan Ninetails, even though Magneton can be used for both.

As for losing members, you have to make sure you prioritize keeping the ones you need to counter the opponent. If you have to sac a mon, don't be afraid to sacrifice something you need less than something else you need more in that situation. Obviously, you don't want to sac if you can help it. Sometimes it's unavoidable, though, and that's just how competitive pokemon works. Keep in mind that Emergency Exit can be used in many situations as a reset to avoid having to sac a pokemon.

First of all, thank you for the rate. I appreciate the time you took to look into this.

You're welcome, although, as you said yourself, I could've been more precise with my statements.

The team has a bit of a strong learning curve since a lot of it is so unconventional. Some things you need to do are sort of counter intuitive. For instance, there are times where Gliscor and/or Tornadus need to be used as pivots more since they have more reliable recovery than the defensive core. A good deal of the gameplay here is figuring out what you need to counter the opponent's threats and matching yourself up accordingly to do that. Sometimes you have to choose to sac the right thing for the situation versus the wrong thing. But that's just how pokemon works.

Yes, but you misunderstand my intent here. What you said is battling 101, I just meant that your team doesn't really have an edge over other similar teams using more conventional Pokemon. Don't get me wrong, I like it, I just don't see the unique selling point if you understand what I mean with that.

This team shouldn't just automatically lose to what you just mentioned.

I didn't mean "automatically lose", I just meant that the matchups I mentioned are very common and not exactly stacked in your favor.

With all due respect, any conventional core doesn't really describe what should beat you when this team counters a lot of the meta.

Not to be disrespectful, but what exactly is this team "countering"?

You keep using the qualifier of if they play right. I mean, most teams can win if the opponent outplays you.

I don't mean "outplaying", I mean "knowing how to use the team". Any matchup can be won if the opponent doesn't know what they're doing and here, I don't see any real team shake in fear in front of your core to say it bluntly.

So is there anything specific that is giving you trouble outside of my threats list?

Mega Mawile, Mega Glalie and Mamo, Greninja-Ash, mix-Protean-Gren (no shame, it's hard to stomach this mon), offensive Ferrothorn (but not so much, you just don't switch into it well), to name just a handful

You mention fire, water, and grass cores. I find this sort of puzzling. Water types simply shouldn't be a problem with Manectric, Gyarados, and Magneton on the team. Outside of Victini, Gliscor and Gyarados check most fire types in the tier pretty well and Golisopod can finish a lot of them off with Aqua Jet after chip damage. Strategies for dealing with grass types are varied. But you also have Tornadus-Therian to deal with most grass types. And depending on the grass pokemon, they can generally be checked or finished off by one or more of Gyarados (part flying type), Magneton, Gliscor, Golisopod, or Manectric. Half the team has ice coverage and Manectric has flamethrower.

You know, they can just switch in and out unpenalized. Part of why this team sort of likes at least rocks, as pretty much any team does. And if your reaction to this is "well then so be it" you haven't played against a good fire/water/grass team before. Hard to break without hazards (disregarding common breakers like Kyurem and such, but that's common sense).

Rain also shouldn't cause you trouble since Gyarados or Golisopod can check Mega Swampert in the rain and you can put a ton of electric type pressure on the rest.

Do they check Ash-Gren? Rain likes to run Koko, Koko plus Pert is goodnight sunshine and Ferro is serious business against your team in rain.

Is there any specific reason why you are down on it?

Well, not really, it's just that I don't really know why to use it really, the comparison with AV-Magearna is odd at best imo, but it (sorta?) makes sense. Magneton won't check Zam and it instantly dies to EQ, it doesn't resist Dark Pulse from Ash-Gren. And Magearna has the better ability. And also surprise factor as it can run a ludicrous amount of viable sets.

Most stalls I face aren't really trouble since rest recovery becomes more reliable against stall for my Magneton and they generally aren't threatening enough to critically damage Gliscor.

Well, the team loses to conventional stall running any type of offensive compnent 100%, Gliscor gets walled by Skarm and Magneton and Manectric are insufficient Skarm-breakers.

My Scizor's role is probably a bit hard to grasp.

Gamefreak confirms the feature of the invisible 7th team member, 2019 c

I think the biggest thing here is you probably are just really used to relying on hazards.

I think the biggest thing here is that hazards are a crucial part of the metagame and you are going to be handicapped not using them. Hazards are what enables dynamic gameplans. "Just fogging it away" it never is that easy. I've never seen any good team not using any kind of entry hazards and no good player ever said "entry hazards aren't important". They aren't a "playstyle", they are an important tool in modern battling. Entry hazards punish switching, punishing switching puts the game under more pressure, putting the game under more pressure makes the game more dynamic. Not using them means your ONLY way of dealing damage is through attacking and status. And that's simply not cutting it nowadays.

However, this team has so many ways to grab or keep momentum that you really shouldn't be played around as easily as you describe here by apparently everything you face.

That is entirely valid and I apologize for not diving into this point. Volt-turn is an effective way of maintaining momentum, but I have a problem with this team not being able to utilize that momentum properly.

Against stall, Magneton, Gliscor, and Tornadus have the recovery to mostly deal with it. Against hyper offense, Golisopod and Manectric do really well at taking out a lot of a threats. Against balance, you need to dictate the matchups in your favor so that you have momentum for most of the game and can use that to punch holes in their team before they do the same to you. Against bulky offense, you need to make sure your chip game is up to par so you can finish them off. Against duel screens, you typically have enough defensive ability on the team where you can just wait it out until a round of screens is gone and/or you can take out the screener. Etc.

It all sounds great in theory, does it. But I can assure you, just because you say "this can deal with that, henceforth the archetype is no problem for the team" doesn't mean that's actually true. Just at this exact moment I can think of horrifying matchups for the team. Screens DD Mega Tar, Sub DD Mega Gyara, as said, Koko Rain, Koko Edge-Lucha, Sub Pert, I'm not talking about specific Pokemon here, I'm talking about entire builds backing them up and this team simply struggles against them. And all these aren't even that uncommon.

Etc. I can't be more specific than this because you are talking about entire vast and vague archetypes that may require different approaches from team to team.

Yes and no. It is true that I was vague, it isn't that the team doesn't struggle against these archetypes. When I was talking about archetypes I meant blueprint builds for that archetype, I meant the concept and parts defining that archetype.

 

[737373elj]

Mega Glalie

Do you play low ladder? Because you shouldn’t be seeing Mega Glalie in OU. Even I have yet to see a single Glalie in OU, even considering I’m low ladder

 

[Ronneberg]

Do you play low ladder? Because you shouldn’t be seeing Mega Glalie in OU. Even I have yet to see a single Glalie in OU, even considering I’m low ladder

It is a really fun, unconventional, anti-meta pick and is actually amazing in OU, even on the high ladder or in tournaments.
It has ice/ground coverage in Return/Double Edge and Earthquake, priority Ice Shard, it has STAB Explosion boosted up to I think about 280 basepower and Spikes for free turns. Imagine it being a faster Mamoswine with better ice STAB and Spikes, occupying the mega slot.
I'm more of a mid-ladder player 1500-1600, but I don't play huge amounts of Showdown, I'm more of a Wifi player.

 

[Bold School]

I don't want to turn this into a huge argument. That said, there are some things that you say that are just factually incorrect about the team. I don't want to have misleading information on the page, so I feel like I have to address a lot of them. Don't get me wrong, some of your points and concerns are 100% legitimate. There are just times where it seems like you don't have a grasp on the team and what it can or can't do.

Again, this is probably my fault for not describing it well enough. I don't think I'll have the time to address more than this comment today. But at some point, I will add a large tactics section and maybe replays since the play style is so different than many people are likely accustomed to. It will probably be mid week at the earliest before I can get to it, though.

Not to be disrespectful, but what exactly is this team "countering"?

I mentioned in my post what Golisopod counters. I also mentioned that Manectric counters a lot of walls.

"This combination coverage can do serious harm to many of the most annoying walls in the tier, including Ferrothorn, Toxapex, Tapu Fini, Celesteela, Gliscor, and also that one troll Azumarill set. This clears the way for the rest of my team."

Counter intuitively, the team is pretty good against Lando-T since I took that into account. I mentioned rain. I have half my team with ice coverage moves for the many pokemon in the tier that are 4X weak to it, including Lando-T, Garchomp, Gliscor, and Dragonite. So between that and the electric moves, most flying types are countered except Zapdos. Water types are usually easy. I'm not going to list every threat and every thing I counter here but if there is any pokemon you are specifically curious about, I can help.

Mega Mawile, Mega Glalie and Mamo, Greninja-Ash, mix-Protean-Gren (no shame, it's hard to stomach this mon), offensive Ferrothorn (but not so much, you just don't switch into it well), to name just a handful

This team literally never struggles with Greninja. Gyarados can counter it (dark pulse is 3 hit KO while earthquake is guaranteed 2hko) and Golisopod 1 shots even Ash-Greninja or any Greninja with First Impression AND that takes priority over Water Shuriken. Mega Manectric usually wrecks Greninja since it out speeds everything it has except Water Shuriken, which it resists. Even Magneton can generally live an attack, guarantees a retaliatory one shot on it with Volt Switch, and gives me momentum. If you struggle with Greninja on this team when Golisopod is arguably the best offensive hard counter you could have for it and 4 of my 6 mons have ways to beat it then, with all due respect, you are doing something wrong.

Ferrothorn isn't a problem, either. Manectric has Flamethrower. Gliscor can also use it as set up fodder to wall break it with Swords Dance + Earthquake since it has good defense and isn't bothered by Leech Seed too much. It also make a good opportunity to bring in Magneton as a slow pivot or bait and switch (to avoid Leech Seed/Protect mind games) into a hard counter since Ferrothorn can't do much of anything to Magneton. Tornadus can beat Ferrothorn with Hurricane, which is then 100% accuracy in the rain if you're talking rain teams. It's a slow kill, but again, Ferrothorn can't stay in on too many of those hits and it also has the Z move to potentially finish it off if it does get cheeky and stays in too long.

Mega Mawhile can be tricky. Arguably, I should have put it on the threats list. It's weak to Earthquake and Flamethrower and doesn't resists Volt Switch. So I generally try to get one of those moves onto it and an Intimidate (with either Gyarados or Manectric on the Volt Switch) so I can live a finishing move after one Swords Dance and counter attack. Gliscor is generally the next thing in because Earthquake and defense. Other thing I do sometimes is use Magneton's Flash Cannon, which is neutral coverage and is a 2HKO. It's not ideal but sometimes it's better to do that than Volt Switch. There are no great answers to this but I've also only lost to it like once so far. I'm generally able to chip it down before it gets too dangerous. That said, it's not an easy thing to deal with and gives many teams a lot of trouble.

I don't see Mamoswine very much anymore, but it is another one that can be tricky since most of my team doesn't like ground/ice coverage much. Arguably, I should have put it on the Threats list. I generally try to weaken it with Gyarados Intimidate, and then either stay in or switch, depending on what I think I need. Waterfall can do 84.7 - 100.2% to it. But Gyarados isn't meant to take too many physical attacks and a hard ice stab or stone coverage from Mamoswine could be an issue. If I switch in on an Earthquake, Stealth Rock, or Ice Shard then I'm usually good to Waterfall. If not, then I often switch out. It gets a bit trickier with stone coverage as sometimes I have to play mind games and put in Magneton for a turn or so, which is risky. But often times it runs stealth rock instead of a stone coverage move, and that makes it easier to deal with for my team. I find that Golisopod is generally the best switch in if rocks aren't up. It can resist ice and ground moves, return fire one shot it with Liquidate, or do over 70% with either of it's priority moves. The best case scenario is prior chip damage and a priority finish. However, Golisopod can live pretty much any non stone attack from Mamoswine without being forced out and can Liquidate return fire as well. It should be emphasized that Golisopod is often a beast against ground type moves when you can't switch into the flying types for some reason.

I have literally never seen Glalie in any OU format, mega or otherwise, except in OU Doubles once awhile back on some gimmicky explosion team. But I just ran a damage calc. Golisopod does 93.7 - 110.5% to it with First Impression. I don't think it would be that hard to revenge kill.

Admittedly, it might be worth adding Mega-Mawhile and Mamoswine to the threats list. Not convinced on everything else.

Well, not really, it's just that I don't really know why to use it really, the comparison with AV-Magearna is odd at best imo, but it (sorta?) makes sense. Magneton won't check Zam and it instantly dies to EQ, it doesn't resist Dark Pulse from Ash-Gren. And Magearna has the better ability. And also surprise factor as it can run a ludicrous amount of viable sets.

Assault Vest Magearna can't do passive moves and doesn't have as good defense as this set because Assault Vest < Eviolite, making it a worse mixed wall in a lot of cases. Magneton is superior against stall with Toxic and Rest. Analytic is also pretty good for boosting Magneton's damage, particularly on switches or slow Volt Switch pivots, which are also only STAB for Magneton. Neither of them should take Earthquakes. Magneton has some different strengths and weaknesses than Magearna. For some teams it will be better and for others it won't, depending on what you need. This team destroys Gren and usually destroys Zam so Magneton isn't really needed for that. I would say that Magearna is probably better overall for the average team more often than not. But it depends heavily on what the team is trying to do. I think it's good to have another slow Volt Switch pivot option available to consider in team construction.

You know, they can just switch in and out unpenalized. Part of why this team sort of likes at least rocks, as pretty much any team does. And if your reaction to this is "well then so be it" you haven't played against a good fire/water/grass team before. Hard to break without hazards (disregarding common breakers like Kyurem and such, but that's common sense).

Except I'm trying to tell you this isn't remotely true. I extensively tested this team and I faced many fire/water/grass cores. You can generally dictate matchups on them and either pivot (or hard switch out if you think Volt Switch will be countered) or take advantage of it when they are forced out. You should usually be dictating matchups even when they switch. The other thing is, you should be able to switch freely for most of the game as well considering the defog capability.

Do they check Ash-Gren? Rain likes to run Koko, Koko plus Pert is goodnight sunshine and Ferro is serious business against your team in rain.

Already explained earlier in this comment that Greninja and Ferrothorn aren't even a problem. I think I also explained how to counter Mega Swampert in the rain previously. Koko is listed under threats list in my original post. Yeah, it's a threat. But that's true of Koko on any team and I already dealt with explaining ways to deal with it under that section.

Well, the team loses to conventional stall running any type of offensive component 100%, Gliscor gets walled by Skarm and Magneton and Manectric are insufficient Skarm-breakers.

What? Have you really played stall with this team? I don't mean to be rude. I'm just honestly confused by some of the things you say here. You should be dictating pace against the slow and passive stall, and that means a lot of posturing and a lot of Volt Switches. Skarmory is weak as heck to electric type special attacks, with both Magneton and Manectric have that. Literally all you have to do against it is Volt Switch. If it stays in it dies fairly quickly in the Volt Switch chain. If they switch out you get to put in whatever you like. Manectric also has Thunderbolt to hit harder and Flamethrower if necessary to finish it off in case of roost, not that Skarmory should ever out speed it.

Gliscor can sometimes beat Skarmory with Swords Dance by using Frost Fang (which sometimes freezes it) and sometimes hit Earthquake on the Roost. But it's unlikely to happen if it carries Whirlwind, which is usually the case. Still, that's not exactly the best way to beat it and Whirlwind gives you another opportunity to establish momentum.

Gamefreak confirms the feature of the invisible 7th team member, 2019 c

Sorry. Meant Gliscor. Scizor was on the old team and they sort of sound similar on that second syllable. Lol. Think I was very tired when I wrote that.

I think the biggest thing here is that hazards are a crucial part of the metagame and you are going to be handicapped not using them. Hazards are what enables dynamic gameplans. "Just fogging it away" it never is that easy. I've never seen any good team not using any kind of entry hazards and no good player ever said "entry hazards aren't important". They aren't a "playstyle", they are an important tool in modern battling. Entry hazards punish switching, punishing switching puts the game under more pressure, putting the game under more pressure makes the game more dynamic. Not using them means your ONLY way of dealing damage is through attacking and status. And that's simply not cutting it nowadays.

Entry hazards are a huge part of the game and I never denied that. I wouldn't even recommend most teams go without them. However, it's sort of ludicrous to suggest that every single team ever devised 100% has to have them with no exceptions whatsoever. This team doesn't put pressure through entry hazards. It puts it on through other means, which is what I have tried to explain to you. I think you even understand this to a certain degree. Yes, it's very different from the conventional means. Yes, it takes some getting used to to use it properly. It's counter intuitive. It's viable here.

And while just fogging it away is, "never that easy", it is still fairly easy to find a spot to do it in when you have two defoggers.

but I have a problem with this team not being able to utilize that momentum properly.

Not sure what you mean. This team has a ton of tools for that.

It all sounds great in theory, does it. But I can assure you, just because you say "this can deal with that, henceforth the archetype is no problem for the team" doesn't mean that's actually true. Just at this exact moment I can think of horrifying matchups for the team. Screens DD Mega Tar, Sub DD Mega Gyara, as said, Koko Rain, Koko Edge-Lucha, Sub Pert, I'm not talking about specific Pokemon here, I'm talking about entire builds backing them up and this team simply struggles against them. And all these aren't even that uncommon.

You can think of horrifying matchups or you actually played them with this team on the ladder? I ask because you seem to be fairly confused as to what the actual strengths and weaknesses of this team are. Every counter measure I suggest is pretty much stuff I have done in actual matches.

DD Mega T-Tar is a bit dangerous, but I roughly covered that in my threats list. Gliscor is the best check for it and it has Swords Dance + Earthquake. Golisopod can finish it off after chip damage. As for team around it, Sand Rush Excadrill gets countered offensively by Golisopod and defensively by Gliscor. Not sure what else around that would be problematic specifically. You didn't really specify again. In general, it is true that Tyranitar isn't liked by the team. I find that's generally the worst part of those teams for me.

Not sure I ever lost to Mega Gyarados with this team. Too much Volt Switch ability on the team for it to keep a sub up and the Mega-Evolution gives it an unfortunate Dark typing that Golisopod then gladly wrecks with priority First Impression. 1HKO every time on the Choice Band set. See, regular Gyarados is actually more of a problem for Golisopod since it resists both it's bug and water STAB because it was flying type. Mega Gyarados is just not an issue for it.

Sub Pert is also generally not a problem as I usually have either already baited the Toxic on it from feigning Volt Switch from Magneton on Pelipper or I just switch Gyarados onto it with Intimidate to ease set up pain, kill the sub, and maybe deal damage if possible. Golisopod can then come in also does more damage in the rain. Swampert doesn't resist water attacks that the rain team buffs since it is part ground type, so my water types actually do fairly well against him.

Koko is a threat but the rain team around it generally isn't for reasons I described. Hawlucha isn't really a huge threat in most games, either. I just switch in Gyarados to Intimidate it. Then I Bounce. If it uses Swords Dance to counter this attack drop, I'm usually already up in the air with Gyarados threatening that flying STAB. Either Hawlucha will be forced out by Bounce, it will stay in and die, or it will stay in and try attacking at + speed and - attack. One attack from Gyarados puts it in revenge kill range of Aqua Jet from Golisopod, even if that defense boost allows it to live a Bounce and somehow finish off Gyarados first. Sometimes I can even pull a Manectric Intimidate on it later if it still lives to make it - 2 and fairly benign. If it switches out then it loses the speed and defense buffs that make it a dangerous threat ONCE per match and Tornadus or Manectric can deal with it when it comes in later since they will then out speed and one shot it. Gliscor can also sometimes be useful against it with Frost Fang. Same with Tornadus and Hurricane as it can usually live one attack and 1 shot it. Usually this isn't necessary, though.

 

[Ronneberg]

I don't want to turn this into a huge argument. That said, there are some things that you say that are just factually incorrect about the team. I don't want to have misleading information on the page, so I feel like I have to address a lot of them. Don't get me wrong, some of your points and concerns are 100% legitimate. There are just times where it seems like you don't have a grasp on the team and what it can or can't do.

Again, this is probably my fault for not describing it well enough. I don't think I'll have the time to address more than this comment today. But at some point, I will add a large tactics section and maybe replays since the play style is so different than many people are likely accustomed to. It will probably be mid week at the earliest before I can get to it, though.



I mentioned in my post what Golisopod counters. I also mentioned that Manectric counters a lot of walls.

"This combination coverage can do serious harm to many of the most annoying walls in the tier, including Ferrothorn, Toxapex, Tapu Fini, Celesteela, Gliscor, and also that one troll Azumarill set. This clears the way for the rest of my team."

Counter intuitively, the team is pretty good against Lando-T since I took that into account. I mentioned rain. I have half my team with ice coverage moves for the many pokemon in the tier that are 4X weak to it, including Lando-T, Garchomp, Gliscor, and Dragonite. So between that and the electric moves, most flying types are countered except Zapdos. Water types are usually easy. I'm not going to list every threat and every thing I counter here but if there is any pokemon you are specifically curious about, I can help.



This team literally never struggles with Greninja. Gyarados can counter it (dark pulse is 3 hit KO while earthquake is guaranteed 2hko) and Golisopod 1 shots even Ash-Greninja or any Greninja with First Impression AND that takes priority over Water Shuriken. Mega Manectric usually wrecks Greninja since it out speeds everything it has except Water Shuriken, which it resists. Even Magneton can generally live an attack, guarantees a retaliatory one shot on it with Volt Switch, and gives me momentum. If you struggle with Greninja on this team when Golisopod is arguably the best offensive hard counter you could have for it and 4 of my 6 mons have ways to beat it then, with all due respect, you are doing something wrong.

Ferrothorn isn't a problem, either. Manectric has Flamethrower. Gliscor can also use it as set up fodder to wall break it with Swords Dance + Earthquake since it has good defense and isn't bothered by Leech Seed too much. It also make a good opportunity to bring in Magneton as a slow pivot or bait and switch (to avoid Leech Seed/Protect mind games) into a hard counter since Ferrothorn can't do much of anything to Magneton. Tornadus can beat Ferrothorn with Hurricane, which is then 100% accuracy in the rain if you're talking rain teams. It's a slow kill, but again, Ferrothorn can't stay in on too many of those hits and it also has the Z move to potentially finish it off if it does get cheeky and stays in too long.

Mega Mawhile can be tricky. Arguably, I should have put it on the threats list. It's weak to Earthquake and Flamethrower and doesn't resists Volt Switch. So I generally try to get one of those moves onto it and an Intimidate (with either Gyarados or Manectric on the Volt Switch) so I can live a finishing move after one Swords Dance and counter attack. Gliscor is generally the next thing in because Earthquake and defense. Other thing I do sometimes is use Magneton's Flash Cannon, which is neutral coverage and is a 2HKO. It's not ideal but sometimes it's better to do that than Volt Switch. There are no great answers to this but I've also only lost to it like once so far. I'm generally able to chip it down before it gets too dangerous. That said, it's not an easy thing to deal with and gives many teams a lot of trouble.

I don't see Mamoswine very much anymore, but it is another one that can be tricky since most of my team doesn't like ground/ice coverage much. Arguably, I should have put it on the Threats list. I generally try to weaken it with Gyarados Intimidate, and then either stay in or switch, depending on what I think I need. Waterfall can do 84.7 - 100.2% to it. But Gyarados isn't meant to take too many physical attacks and a hard ice stab or stone coverage from Mamoswine could be an issue. If I switch in on an Earthquake, Stealth Rock, or Ice Shard then I'm usually good to Waterfall. If not, then I often switch out. It gets a bit trickier with stone coverage as sometimes I have to play mind games and put in Magneton for a turn or so, which is risky. But often times it runs stealth rock instead of a stone coverage move, and that makes it easier to deal with for my team. I find that Golisopod is generally the best switch in if rocks aren't up. It can resist ice and ground moves, return fire one shot it with Liquidate, or do over 70% with either of it's priority moves. The best case scenario is prior chip damage and a priority finish. However, Golisopod can live pretty much any non stone attack from Mamoswine without being forced out and can Liquidate return fire as well. It should be emphasized that Golisopod is often a beast against ground type moves when you can't switch into the flying types for some reason.

I have literally never seen Glalie in any OU format, mega or otherwise, except in OU Doubles once awhile back on some gimmicky explosion team. But I just ran a damage calc. Golisopod does 93.7 - 110.5% to it with First Impression. I don't think it would be that hard to revenge kill.

Admittedly, it might be worth adding Mega-Mawhile and Mamoswine to the threats list. Not convinced on everything else.



Assault Vest Magearna can't do passive moves and doesn't have as good defense as this set because Assault Vest < Eviolite, making it a worse mixed wall in a lot of cases. Magneton is superior against stall with Toxic and Rest. Analytic is also pretty good for boosting Magneton's damage, particularly on switches or slow Volt Switch pivots, which are also only STAB for Magneton. Neither of them should take Earthquakes. Magneton has some different strengths and weaknesses than Magearna. For some teams it will be better and for others it won't, depending on what you need. This team destroys Gren and usually destroys Zam so Magneton isn't really needed for that. I would say that Magearna is probably better overall for the average team more often than not. But it depends heavily on what the team is trying to do. I think it's good to have another slow Volt Switch pivot option available to consider in team construction.



Except I'm trying to tell you this isn't remotely true. I extensively tested this team and I faced many fire/water/grass cores. You can generally dictate matchups on them and either pivot (or hard switch out if you think Volt Switch will be countered) or take advantage of it when they are forced out. You should usually be dictating matchups even when they switch. The other thing is, you should be able to switch freely for most of the game as well considering the defog capability.



Already explained earlier in this comment that Greninja and Ferrothorn aren't even a problem. I think I also explained how to counter Mega Swampert in the rain previously. Koko is listed under threats list in my original post. Yeah, it's a threat. But that's true of Koko on any team and I already dealt with explaining ways to deal with it under that section.



What? Have you really played stall with this team? I don't mean to be rude. I'm just honestly confused by some of the things you say here. You should be dictating pace against the slow and passive stall, and that means a lot of posturing and a lot of Volt Switches. Skarmory is weak as heck to electric type special attacks, with both Magneton and Manectric have that. Literally all you have to do against it is Volt Switch. If it stays in it dies fairly quickly in the Volt Switch chain. If they switch out you get to put in whatever you like. Manectric also has Thunderbolt to hit harder and Flamethrower if necessary to finish it off in case of roost, not that Skarmory should ever out speed it.

Gliscor can sometimes beat Skarmory with Swords Dance by using Frost Fang (which sometimes freezes it) and sometimes hit Earthquake on the Roost. But it's unlikely to happen if it carries Whirlwind, which is usually the case. Still, that's not exactly the best way to beat it and Whirlwind gives you another opportunity to establish momentum.



Sorry. Meant Gliscor. Scizor was on the old team and they sort of sound similar on that second syllable. Lol. Think I was very tired when I wrote that.



Entry hazards are a huge part of the game and I never denied that. I wouldn't even recommend most teams go without them. However, it's sort of ludicrous to suggest that every single team ever devised 100% has to have them with no exceptions whatsoever. This team doesn't put pressure through entry hazards. It puts it on through other means, which is what I have tried to explain to you. I think you even understand this to a certain degree. Yes, it's very different from the conventional means. Yes, it takes some getting used to to use it properly. It's counter intuitive. It's viable here.

And while just fogging it away is, "never that easy", it is still fairly easy to find a spot to do it in when you have two defoggers.



Not sure what you mean. This team has a ton of tools for that.



You can think of horrifying matchups or you actually played them with this team on the ladder? I ask because you seem to be fairly confused as to what the actual strengths and weaknesses of this team are. Every counter measure I suggest is pretty much stuff I have done in actual matches.

DD Mega T-Tar is a bit dangerous, but I roughly covered that in my threats list. Gliscor is the best check for it and it has Swords Dance + Earthquake. Golisopod can finish it off after chip damage. As for team around it, Sand Rush Excadrill gets countered offensively by Golisopod and defensively by Gliscor. Not sure what else around that would be problematic specifically. You didn't really specify again. In general, it is true that Tyranitar isn't liked by the team. I find that's generally the worst part of those teams for me.

Not sure I ever lost to Mega Gyarados with this team. Too much Volt Switch ability on the team for it to keep a sub up and the Mega-Evolution gives it an unfortunate Dark typing that Golisopod then gladly wrecks with priority First Impression. 1HKO every time on the Choice Band set. See, regular Gyarados is actually more of a problem for Golisopod since it resists both it's bug and water STAB because it was flying type. Mega Gyarados is just not an issue for it.

Sub Pert is also generally not a problem as I usually have either already baited the Toxic on it from feigning Volt Switch from Magneton on Pelipper or I just switch Gyarados onto it with Intimidate to ease set up pain, kill the sub, and maybe deal damage if possible. Golisopod can then come in also does more damage in the rain. Swampert doesn't resist water attacks that the rain team buffs since it is part ground type, so my water types actually do fairly well against him.

Koko is a threat but the rain team around it generally isn't for reasons I described. Hawlucha isn't really a huge threat in most games, either. I just switch in Gyarados to Intimidate it. Then I Bounce. If it uses Swords Dance to counter this attack drop, I'm usually already up in the air with Gyarados threatening that flying STAB. Either Hawlucha will be forced out by Bounce, it will stay in and die, or it will stay in and try attacking at + speed and - attack. One attack from Gyarados puts it in revenge kill range of Aqua Jet from Golisopod, even if that defense boost allows it to live a Bounce and somehow finish off Gyarados first. Sometimes I can even pull a Manectric Intimidate on it later if it still lives to make it - 2 and fairly benign. If it switches out then it loses the speed and defense buffs that make it a dangerous threat ONCE per match and Tornadus or Manectric can deal with it when it comes in later since they will then out speed and one shot it. Gliscor can also sometimes be useful against it with Frost Fang. Same with Tornadus and Hurricane as it can usually live one attack and 1 shot it. Usually this isn't necessary, though.

Ai ai ima keep it real with you chief, I'm one excentric goof, sometimes even I struggle to keep up with my reasoning.

I mentioned in my post what Golisopod counters. I also mentioned that Manectric counters a lot of walls.

"This combination coverage can do serious harm to many of the most annoying walls in the tier, including Ferrothorn, Toxapex, Tapu Fini, Celesteela, Gliscor, and also that one troll Azumarill set. This clears the way for the rest of my team."

Counter intuitively, the team is pretty good against Lando-T since I took that into account. I mentioned rain. I have half my team with ice coverage moves for the many pokemon in the tier that are 4X weak to it, including Lando-T, Garchomp, Gliscor, and Dragonite. So between that and the electric moves, most flying types are countered except Zapdos. Water types are usually easy. I'm not going to list every threat and every thing I counter here but if there is any pokemon you are specifically curious about, I can help.

Gotta say, I'm behind Golisopod now too, this shrimp can put in some decent work not gonna lie. But after using it, I've changed it to Bug Plate because my man hates being locked in, gotta let that thing roam and swapped Aqua Jet for Spikes because it does scare out and you gotta let them bleed for being a pussy.

This team literally never struggles with Greninja. Gyarados can counter it (dark pulse is 3 hit KO while earthquake is guaranteed 2hko) and Golisopod 1 shots even Ash-Greninja or any Greninja with First Impression AND that takes priority over Water Shuriken. Mega Manectric usually wrecks Greninja since it out speeds everything it has except Water Shuriken, which it resists. Even Magneton can generally live an attack, guarantees a retaliatory one shot on it with Volt Switch, and gives me momentum. If you struggle with Greninja on this team when Golisopod is arguably the best offensive hard counter you could have for it and 4 of my 6 mons have ways to beat it then, with all due respect, you are doing something wrong.

Ferrothorn isn't a problem, either. Manectric has Flamethrower. Gliscor can also use it as set up fodder to wall break it with Swords Dance + Earthquake since it has good defense and isn't bothered by Leech Seed too much. It also make a good opportunity to bring in Magneton as a slow pivot or bait and switch (to avoid Leech Seed/Protect mind games) into a hard counter since Ferrothorn can't do much of anything to Magneton. Tornadus can beat Ferrothorn with Hurricane, which is then 100% accuracy in the rain if you're talking rain teams. It's a slow kill, but again, Ferrothorn can't stay in on too many of those hits and it also has the Z move to potentially finish it off if it does get cheeky and stays in too long.

Mega Mawhile can be tricky. Arguably, I should have put it on the threats list. It's weak to Earthquake and Flamethrower and doesn't resists Volt Switch. So I generally try to get one of those moves onto it and an Intimidate (with either Gyarados or Manectric on the Volt Switch) so I can live a finishing move after one Swords Dance and counter attack. Gliscor is generally the next thing in because Earthquake and defense. Other thing I do sometimes is use Magneton's Flash Cannon, which is neutral coverage and is a 2HKO. It's not ideal but sometimes it's better to do that than Volt Switch. There are no great answers to this but I've also only lost to it like once so far. I'm generally able to chip it down before it gets too dangerous. That said, it's not an easy thing to deal with and gives many teams a lot of trouble.

I don't see Mamoswine very much anymore, but it is another one that can be tricky since most of my team doesn't like ground/ice coverage much. Arguably, I should have put it on the Threats list. I generally try to weaken it with Gyarados Intimidate, and then either stay in or switch, depending on what I think I need. Waterfall can do 84.7 - 100.2% to it. But Gyarados isn't meant to take too many physical attacks and a hard ice stab or stone coverage from Mamoswine could be an issue. If I switch in on an Earthquake, Stealth Rock, or Ice Shard then I'm usually good to Waterfall. If not, then I often switch out. It gets a bit trickier with stone coverage as sometimes I have to play mind games and put in Magneton for a turn or so, which is risky. But often times it runs stealth rock instead of a stone coverage move, and that makes it easier to deal with for my team. I find that Golisopod is generally the best switch in if rocks aren't up. It can resist ice and ground moves, return fire one shot it with Liquidate, or do over 70% with either of it's priority moves. The best case scenario is prior chip damage and a priority finish. However, Golisopod can live pretty much any non stone attack from Mamoswine without being forced out and can Liquidate return fire as well. It should be emphasized that Golisopod is often a beast against ground type moves when you can't switch into the flying types for some reason.

I have literally never seen Glalie in any OU format, mega or otherwise, except in OU Doubles once awhile back on some gimmicky explosion team. But I just ran a damage calc. Golisopod does 93.7 - 110.5% to it with First Impression. I don't think it would be that hard to revenge kill.

Admittedly, it might be worth adding Mega-Mawhile and Mamoswine to the threats list. Not convinced on everything else.

Do these Mons counter the team and threaten it to enormous extend? No.
But man, the matchup is annoying and demands some god tier plays to stay alive and that's not up for debate.

Assault Vest Magearna can't do passive moves and doesn't have as good defense as this set because Assault Vest < Eviolite, making it a worse mixed wall in a lot of cases. Magneton is superior against stall with Toxic and Rest. Analytic is also pretty good for boosting Magneton's damage, particularly on switches or slow Volt Switch pivots, which are also only STAB for Magneton. Neither of them should take Earthquakes. Magneton has some different strengths and weaknesses than Magearna. For some teams it will be better and for others it won't, depending on what you need. This team destroys Gren and usually destroys Zam so Magneton isn't really needed for that. I would say that Magearna is probably better overall for the average team more often than not. But it depends heavily on what the team is trying to do. I think it's good to have another slow Volt Switch pivot option available to consider in team construction.

Whatever, AV Magearna ticks a ton more boxes but sure, go ahead.

Except I'm trying to tell you this isn't remotely true. I extensively tested this team and I faced many fire/water/grass cores. You can generally dictate matchups on them and either pivot (or hard switch out if you think Volt Switch will be countered) or take advantage of it when they are forced out. You should usually be dictating matchups even when they switch. The other thing is, you should be able to switch freely for most of the game as well considering the defog capability.

Yeah man, I've not thought this statement through

Already explained earlier in this comment that Greninja and Ferrothorn aren't even a problem. I think I also explained how to counter Mega Swampert in the rain previously. Koko is listed under threats list in my original post. Yeah, it's a threat. But that's true of Koko on any team and I already dealt with explaining ways to deal with it under that section.

Matchup's still tough as nails and boring to play

What? Have you really played stall with this team? I don't mean to be rude. I'm just honestly confused by some of the things you say here. You should be dictating pace against the slow and passive stall, and that means a lot of posturing and a lot of Volt Switches. Skarmory is weak as heck to electric type special attacks, with both Magneton and Manectric have that. Literally all you have to do against it is Volt Switch. If it stays in it dies fairly quickly in the Volt Switch chain. If they switch out you get to put in whatever you like. Manectric also has Thunderbolt to hit harder and Flamethrower if necessary to finish it off in case of roost, not that Skarmory should ever out speed it.

Yes

Gliscor can sometimes beat Skarmory with Swords Dance by using Frost Fang (which sometimes freezes it) and sometimes hit Earthquake on the Roost. But it's unlikely to happen if it carries Whirlwind, which is usually the case. Still, that's not exactly the best way to beat it and Whirlwind gives you another opportunity to establish momentum.

No

Sorry. Meant Gliscor. Scizor was on the old team and they sort of sound similar on that second syllable. Lol. Think I was very tired when I wrote that.

Bruh that was a joke

And while just fogging it away is, "never that easy", it is still fairly easy to find a spot to do it in when you have two defoggers.

Nah not really

Not sure what you mean. This team has a ton of tools for that.

Yes, just my retarded ass not seeing Z Torn, bit too weak imo

You can think of horrifying matchups or you actually played them with this team on the ladder?

I judge a team by its strengths and weaknesses, not by how it performs on the ladder. My 2 cents on the latter, low to mid it's doing good, but higher (1600+) where the players are better and the teams more sophisticated, it's not really cutting it really.

DD Mega T-Tar is a bit dangerous, but I roughly covered that in my threats list. Gliscor is the best check for it and it has Swords Dance + Earthquake.

Mhm, DD Ice Punch, mixed Ice Beam. Ttar runs ice coverage most of the time.

Golisopod can finish it off after chip damage.

Not if it switches out

Sand Rush Excadrill gets countered offensively by Golisopod

Rock Slide into Emergency Exit

defensively by Gliscor.

Z Iron Head?

Sub Pert is also generally not a problem as I usually have either already baited the Toxic on it from feigning Volt Switch from Magneton on Pelipper or I just switch Gyarados onto it with Intimidate to ease set up pain, kill the sub, and maybe deal damage if possible.

Pert literally sneezes thinking about Earthquake and this thing drops

Hawlucha isn't really a huge threat in most games, either.

Stone Edge ones are, i.e. the best set imo

To wrap this trainwreck of a conversation up,
the team has issues, I wanted to tell you about them.
Keep it real chief

 

[Bold School]

Gotta say, I'm behind Golisopod now too, this shrimp can put in some decent work not gonna lie. But after using it, I've changed it to Bug Plate because my man hates being locked in, gotta let that thing roam and swapped Aqua Jet for Spikes because it does scare out and you gotta let them bleed for being a pussy.

That's interesting. I also sort of like the idea of Spikes on it. Problem is I'm not really sure it would have the power to get all the KOs it needs. Might still counter Greninja or Mega Zam but it probably wouldn't be enough against things on the edge like Tyranitar or Bisharp. Also, a more powerful Aqua Jet is needed against Sand Rush Excadrill and Volcarona. I ran Choice Band for a reason. If you are struggling with Golisopod then it might explain some of the difficulties.

I find the best way to play choice locked Golisopod is to pick and choose your spots correctly. If your opponent keeps switching it from it then you can just predict and punish that by using powerful Choice Band Liquidation or Leech Life, depending on what you think might switch in. Against some matchups, you can also sort of tank it and recover a bit using Leech Life.

Do these Mons counter the team and threaten it to enormous extend? No.
But man, the matchup is annoying and demands some god tier plays to stay alive and that's not up for debate.

I would like to debate the god tier part. But I'm getting a bit tired of debating. Regardless, I will add Mamoswine and Mega Mawhile to the threats list at some point soon. The rest from that initial section aren't threats. But you made a good point with those two.

I judge a team by its strengths and weaknesses, not by how it performs on the ladder. My 2 cents on the latter, low to mid it's doing good, but higher (1600+) where the players are better and the teams more sophisticated, it's not really cutting it really.

Well, I appreciate the feedback regardless. I'm looking into it. Based on our latest team's posted, I'm guessing we each have sort of opposite playstyles. Not that I want to make that an excuse as to why the team isn't performing great for you. It might not be a viable high ladder team. I'll need to do more testing over the next 2-4 weeks to confirm this.

Mhm, DD Ice Punch, mixed Ice Beam. Ttar runs ice coverage most of the time.

Depends on the set. They normally try setting up a turn first. Sometimes you need to risk the sac of Gliscor to get chip damage on it so you can guarentee the KO with Golisopod. Like I have said before, it's hard to deal with. Tyranitar is a major threat and I did list it as such.

Not if it switches out

If it's out, it can't hurt you until it comes back in. If it switches in then you can try it again or bluff it for something else.

Rock Slide into Emergency Exit

That's why I have choice band Aqua Jet.

Z Iron Head?

Does 51.4 - 60.7% to my Gliscor set. Regular Iron Head only does 25.8 - 30.6%. Different story after Swords Dance, though. You would have to switch into it early enough to earthquake it.

Pert literally sneezes thinking about Earthquake and this thing drops

Why would you keep Magneton in against it? That makes no sense. Here is what I was trying to say: Many rain teams lead with Pelipper. So if you lead with Magneton, you threaten the 4X weak Volt Switch and they usually go to their ground type to block it. That's Swampert. Except I often Toxic instead as it switches in. Then obviously, you don't keep Magneton in. You switch in something like Gyarados, which has Intimidate and is immune to Earthquake. If it subs then I don't care too much for reasons I described. Failing that, I often switch in Gyarados to kill the sub anyway. Once you take out the ground resist, rain teams tend to mostly fall thanks largely to Magneton/Manectric.

Stone Edge ones are, i.e. the best set imo

They still don't beat me with Hawlucha, even if they get past Gyarados with Stone Edge for reasons I stated earlier. Most important being that they either have to Swords Dance or they stay in at - attack for their one imposing stint. It basically neuters their one sweep attempt.

To wrap this trainwreck of a conversation up,
the team has issues, I wanted to tell you about them.
Keep it real chief

I appreciate the feedback. I appreciate your intentions. There are certain things the team struggles with. There are certain things it doesn't. If it doesn't then I say so. If it does then I'll say so. I don't know what else to tell you. Whatever the case, I do feel the discussion is valuable. It may turn out that I do have to rework the team again for whatever reason.