More applause to Pearl hooray! This thread and all of your other threads are p great and you seem to really care about these threads and the community as a whole, and echoing off Panther you and all the people here and on PS make this community so nice and fun.
Addressing panthers post,
252 SpA Tentacruel Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 330-390 (88.9 - 105.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (and with my luck you never get the roll :'[ )
252 SpA Tentacruel Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Aerodactyl-Mega: 270-320 (89.7 - 106.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Tentacruel Hydro Pump vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Nidoqueen: 300-354 (81.9 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tentacruel Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Celebi: 212-252 (62.1 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(This is just a side note, as Celebi can nasty plot up, win the speed tie and kill you next turn with Psychic)
In addition to all of this, on offensive teams this offensive Tentacruel set still gets set up on by alot of stuff in the metagame, like Gyara, BU conk, M-pert, and Toxicroak, all of which give offense the business after a boost, and in general Tentacruel gives up alot of momentum for offense by not pressuring walls at all. While I'm aware its supposed to be a lure, its not exactly all that surprising to see an offensive Tentacruel nowadays seeing as its literally a standard set on the Dex, and all of these drawbacks make it a little harder to justify on a team vs some other offensive hazard removers like M-Blastoise, Offensive Empoleon, or v-switch Forretress.
On Aero to S I think its a pretty hard decision, though I think the argument for is going to get much tougher with more Klefki in the tier, seeing as the keys hard wall Aero with magnet rise and then thunder wave it making it essentially useless. Its a really great poke, and its definitely a defining mon in the tier, but on the one hand the lack of immediate power hurts it somewhat, as it can't break through most defensive walls very well and can't even Ohko the things it checks like Celebi or Conkeldurr thanks to its Aerial Ace and often times requires the use of stone edge to make game winning plays, and on the other hand it puts in so much work vs offense by itself and the Pursuit and Hone Claws sets are amazing, with pursuit M-Aero being one of the go-to pursuit trappers and one of the best, and Hone Claws Aero being able to put in work vs more bulky teams and clean incredibly easy after one boost. Its a really tough call, though I believe that especially with klefki here to stay, staying in tier A1 suits it a little better than S.
Finally on Klefki, I could see this mon having a solid home in A2, since its a really fantastic poke and acts as an emergency check to sweepers, the best spiker in the tier, a good hydrei check, and a decent dual screens user. Klef is a really good mon but its mediocre bulk is what i think will hold it back from A1, as it really struggles with offensive ground types not named Krookodile, since it can magnet rise but it cant take other stab hits or coverage moves and is whittled pretty easily, like scald from Swamp, waterfall from m-Swamp, Fire Blast from the nidos, and vs slower attackers that don't mind a twave like Conk or Snorlax.
As a side note, I've been experimenting with a Heracross and Klefki build and its amazing, with tox orb hera steamrolling literally everything slower than it after an SD and klefki thunder waving everything faster than it. With an incredibly reliable source of speed control we may see somewhat slower offensive threats like SD Haxorus, Kyurem, or Hera become much more viable towards the end of gen 6, which would be pretty neat. Thanks for reading n_n
Addressing panthers post,
While it has the tools to get rid of any spinblockers, at the same time you're using precious moveslots. On the defensive set this means giving up your utility of toxic spikes or haze in favor or toxic/knock off or what have you. Empoleon doesn't need to carry any of these (though yes some do carry toxic) and can carry stealth rocks and roar, and on offensive you're forced to get rid of ice beam and lose to Hydreigon Haxorus and Roserade.While it's of course true that Defog can't be blocked, I don't really see how it is better when we're looking at Tentacruel. This is because Tentacruel has all the tools in its disposal to dispose any Pokemon in the tier that can block rapid spin (Sableye, Jellicent, Doublade) bar the uncommon Hoopa (you can run Knock Off though). So yea, it can be blocked, but if you have all the tools you need to get past the things that block a spin, how is that a concern?
A couple big ones,Do you have any specific examples of this? The whole point of running Hydro Pump on an offensive set is to ensure OHKOs on Pokemon that are usually faster and thus inclined to stay in: Nidoking, Krookodile and Mamoswine.
252 SpA Tentacruel Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking: 368-434 (121.4 - 143.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Tentacruel Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 348-410 (105.1 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Tentacruel Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mamoswine: 392-464 (108.5 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
From the way I see it, the offensive set nets all the OHKOs that it needs to (as you only run it to 'lure' these threats). What OHKOs are missing here? If you could provide some examples I'd appreciate it.
252 SpA Tentacruel Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 330-390 (88.9 - 105.1%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (and with my luck you never get the roll :'[ )
252 SpA Tentacruel Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Aerodactyl-Mega: 270-320 (89.7 - 106.3%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Tentacruel Hydro Pump vs. 180 HP / 0 SpD Nidoqueen: 300-354 (81.9 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Tentacruel Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Celebi: 212-252 (62.1 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
(This is just a side note, as Celebi can nasty plot up, win the speed tie and kill you next turn with Psychic)
In addition to all of this, on offensive teams this offensive Tentacruel set still gets set up on by alot of stuff in the metagame, like Gyara, BU conk, M-pert, and Toxicroak, all of which give offense the business after a boost, and in general Tentacruel gives up alot of momentum for offense by not pressuring walls at all. While I'm aware its supposed to be a lure, its not exactly all that surprising to see an offensive Tentacruel nowadays seeing as its literally a standard set on the Dex, and all of these drawbacks make it a little harder to justify on a team vs some other offensive hazard removers like M-Blastoise, Offensive Empoleon, or v-switch Forretress.
On Aero to S I think its a pretty hard decision, though I think the argument for is going to get much tougher with more Klefki in the tier, seeing as the keys hard wall Aero with magnet rise and then thunder wave it making it essentially useless. Its a really great poke, and its definitely a defining mon in the tier, but on the one hand the lack of immediate power hurts it somewhat, as it can't break through most defensive walls very well and can't even Ohko the things it checks like Celebi or Conkeldurr thanks to its Aerial Ace and often times requires the use of stone edge to make game winning plays, and on the other hand it puts in so much work vs offense by itself and the Pursuit and Hone Claws sets are amazing, with pursuit M-Aero being one of the go-to pursuit trappers and one of the best, and Hone Claws Aero being able to put in work vs more bulky teams and clean incredibly easy after one boost. Its a really tough call, though I believe that especially with klefki here to stay, staying in tier A1 suits it a little better than S.
Finally on Klefki, I could see this mon having a solid home in A2, since its a really fantastic poke and acts as an emergency check to sweepers, the best spiker in the tier, a good hydrei check, and a decent dual screens user. Klef is a really good mon but its mediocre bulk is what i think will hold it back from A1, as it really struggles with offensive ground types not named Krookodile, since it can magnet rise but it cant take other stab hits or coverage moves and is whittled pretty easily, like scald from Swamp, waterfall from m-Swamp, Fire Blast from the nidos, and vs slower attackers that don't mind a twave like Conk or Snorlax.
As a side note, I've been experimenting with a Heracross and Klefki build and its amazing, with tox orb hera steamrolling literally everything slower than it after an SD and klefki thunder waving everything faster than it. With an incredibly reliable source of speed control we may see somewhat slower offensive threats like SD Haxorus, Kyurem, or Hera become much more viable towards the end of gen 6, which would be pretty neat. Thanks for reading n_n
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