Gen 6 ORAS Ubers Viability Ranking Thread

[Minority]

Darkrai is perfect where it is and a wall of irrelevant calcs doesn't change that. Nobody runs Modest Darkrai, 104 HP Xern, -SpD Mega Mence, or 128 HP P Don. Focus Sash is also generally a poor item for Darkrai to hold. With that said, Darkrai's viability is slightly hampered by the fact that it can only really fit on offensive teams, is in competition with Yveltal to an extent, and is susceptible to revenge killing. It's not the kind of thing that automatically contributes to any team, and it doesn't even always fit on every offensive team. Defensive checks may be tricky for it because of how unique Darkrai is as an offensive threat, but any good team can handle it once something is used as sleep fodder (several teams also run a dedicated sleep absorber intended to counter Darkrai).

Lugia is the polar opposite which for obvious reasons is dead weight for any offensive team. While it has immense bulk, this is often circumvented through Stealth Rock, Taunt, and status; there are even some offensive mons that can outright OHKO it. It's a good defensive Poke, but A+ is far too generous imo, especially when several of the threats you intend to check with it can break you under certain conditions (Mega Salamence and Primal Groudon). It is also very passive which I don't consider to be a very good thing, especially when you look at Pokemon in A+ that can be used defensively but still posses some offensive presence or ability to stallbreak. I don't consider Lugia to be a Pokemon that requires minimal support to be used, nor do I find myself always going to it as my first choice for the roles it accomplishes, both of which are part of A rank criterion.

 

[Spyro Chris]

Nobody runs Modest Darkrai, 104 HP Xern, -SpD Mega Mence, or 128 HP P Don.

While I do agree with the rest of your post, this part is wrong, because 128 HP is the standard RP 3 Attacks Primal Groudon EV spread, as shown here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/primal-groudon.3522601/ The set says 120 HP and 136 Spe, but that's more of a small Spe creep, since it usually is 128/252/128, Adamant Nature. Just a small nitpick/reminder.

 

[Spyro Chris]

Define "standard", please, because I do run that spread mentioned in the thread I posted. Maybe I am the only one, then.

 

[haxiom]

Standard = analysis

 

[kingmidas]

Standard/=/ most effective.

 

[Freeroamer]

Darkrai A+ -> S-

and


Lugia A-> A+

Darkrai reasoning:

A Dark Void/Nasty Plot sweeper set with a sash can set up on practically anyone, and the only pokemon who really wall it are Klefki and Ho-Oh. Xern is a check, but not a true counter to this set.

Darkrai @ Focus Sash
Ability: Bad Dreams
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Dark Void
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot

+2 252+ SpA Darkrai Sludge Bomb vs. +2 104 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 226-266 (53.9 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 322-381 (86.3 - 102.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (all calcs done w/ full health) (almost guaranteed OHKO with one turn of Bad Dreams, or with any hazards)
+2 252+ SpA Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Salamence: 358-423 (108.1 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO Another High threat in the tier, MM gets ANNIHILATED by Darkrai
+2 252+ SpA Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus: 253-298 (66.4 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 614-726 (234.3 - 277%) -- guaranteed OHKO


Lugia: A SubMind set can make Lugia hold up to any pokemon in terms of pure walling, also can sit there and toxic teams to death with its stalling capabilities

Lugia@Leftovers
Ability: Multiscale
252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 SpD
Bold Nature
-Calm Mind
-Substitute
-Ice Beam
-Toxic





+2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Lugia: 156-185 (37.5 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Multiscale Lugia: 92-109 (22.1 - 26.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Lugia: 140-165 (33.6 - 39.6%) -- 19.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Lugia: 113-133 (27.1 - 31.9%) -- 41.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Multiscale Lugia: 105-125 (25.2 - 30%) -- 0.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Multiscale Lugia: 141-166 (33.8 - 39.9%) -- 28.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I like Lugia, but the set you've posted here is tbh, quite bad in the current metagame. Apart from not being able to touch Steel types, this set doesn't achieve what Lugia does best, walling the majority of physical attackers and either phazing boosting sweepers or toxic stalling things that can't touch it. Your set absolutely detests Stealth Rock being up on it's side, especially if the opponent is packing a phazer, and due to the lack of Roost, may not have the HP required when it needs to come in to stop a Salamence sweep for example.

So this post isn't just criticism, I'd advocate a move for Lati@s into S- Rank. Very splashable on lots of teams thanks to the roles it can compress as Defog user, Kyogre switchin, a P-don check(obviously shouldn't be your only one, but alongside something else it helps vs it) and in general, either one has great options. Latios hits really deceptively hard, while Latias is really deceptively bulky, and can run interesting team support options such as Healing Wish which alongside threats such as P don and Mence, makes them even harder to handle if they burnt themselves out before sweeping last time. Overall very good pokemon in the current metagame, and I believe that they should rise.

 

[Spyro Chris]

Standard = analysis

That's exactly what I meant by "standard". Taken from the analysis. Well, not all my RP 3 Attacks PDons run those EVs, but, for me, "standard" = the set in the analyses we have. This is why we have them.

 

[haxiom]

That's exactly what I meant by "standard". Taken from the analysis. Well, not all my RP 3 Attacks PDons run those EVs, but, for me, "standard" = the set in the analyses we have. This is why we have them.

The thread you linked is not the analysis. The analysis can be found here. There is also a possibility that I'm completely misinterpreting you though, so I'm not 100% sure.

 

[Spyro Chris]

I consider both legit. Saying "no one runs 128 HP" is a bit too much since there's a thread with that spread.

 

[Thugly Duckling]

Standard = ladder

 

[ApplepieFTW]

Define "standard", please, because I do run that spread mentioned in the thread I posted. Maybe I am the only one, then.

Standard is the most effective and most optimal set/spread and more often than not this is the analysis set/spread; it's not some arbitrary spread that the calc provides or is used on the ladder (flash cannon xerneas vs thunder, timid max vs 44/enough for sand exca)

 

[Inspirited]

Standard is the most effective and most optimal set/spread and more often than not this is the analysis set/spread; it's not some arbitrary spread that the calc provides or is used on the ladder (flash cannon xerneas vs thunder, timid max vs 44/enough for sand exca)

Man, I almost think this could be its own thread. lol
But if I am to input my 2 cents, this is what standard wants to be but usually isn't. Standard is what is accepted as good enough to be made common, aka the analysis spreads. This early into ORAS, the optimal ORAS spreads are not yet released due to SPL secrecy among other things. Standard is the norm that wants to as optimal as possible, but we do not have the second piece of the puzzle.

 

[squidlick]

While it's hardly enough to justify using it over better Arceus formes, Dragon Arceus can outspeed and OHKO the Lati twins with a physical Swords Dance set, can get through PDon with Earthquake like EKiller, and can deal with the slower and less bulkier Dragons that aren't Scarfed(and scarfed Dragons are rare bar Zekrom). Sure it gets maimed by Fairies but it gets Iron Tail/Head to possibly get past them and Primal Groudon exists to take them on as a teammate. Maybe a small bump to C+?

 

[Thugly Duckling]

While it's hardly enough to justify using it over better Arceus formes, Dragon Arceus can outspeed and OHKO the Lati twins with a physical Swords Dance set, can get through PDon with Earthquake like EKiller, and can deal with the slower and less bulkier Dragons that aren't Scarfed(and scarfed Dragons are rare bar Zekrom).

 

[Froggyboy]

I feel that's just disgusting that you cut out the part where he admits that Dragon-Arceus is maimed by fairies, and could possibly carry coverage to hit it. I don't play Ubers much, so I can't say if Dragceus deserves a raise, but don't purposefully cut out the next sentence where he mentioned the point you seem to be bringing up just for likes or whatever.

 

[Thugly Duckling]

I feel that's just disgusting that you cut out the part where he admits that Dragon-Arceus is maimed by fairies, and could possibly carry coverage to hit it. I don't play Ubers much, so I can't say if Dragceus deserves a raise, but don't purposefully cut out the next sentence where he mentioned the point you seem to be bringing up just for likes or whatever.

 

[Mr.378]

Hide

Can you stop trying to be 'cool' and posting gif/picture only answers? You're only looking like a total try hard and reducing the quality of this thread more than needed.

But besides that Arceus-Dragon is fine where it is. It costs your Arceus form and the CM set is now sort of outclassed by the Latis but the SD set is still viable enough. It is viable I feel because of its good speed tier which allows it to out speed every non scarfed dragon in the tier and has powerful enough power and coverage so that it can hit most things in the tier while allowing for decent set up oppurtunity. All of that is enough for C at least.

Besides Xern isn't even that good a check. Only Scarf Xern can deal with it after an SD because Iron Head at +2 guaranteed OHKOs standard Geomancy Xerneas:

+2 252 Atk Arceus-Dragon Iron Tail vs. 88 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 430-508 (103.6 - 122.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Aberforth]

Standard Geoxern is a lot bulkier than that. I agree it should stay the same rank, but geoxern runs a lot more HP + defense now. Esp defense, because of genesect.

 

[Dilwar]

Standard Geoxern is a lot bulkier than that. I agree it should stay the same rank, but geoxern runs a lot more HP + defense now. Esp defense, because of genesect.

Hardly matters :/

+2 252 Atk Arceus Iron Tail vs. 100 HP / 28 Def Xerneas: 418-492 (100 - 117.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Arceus Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 28 Def Xerneas: 418-492 (91.6 - 107.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

"Standard" is also a very broad term. Geoxern has one of the most varied spreads in the game.

 

[Sweep]

No bump for SD Arceus-Dragon, if you want a SD Arceus that can hit extremely hard, use Shadow Force Ghost Arceus, whose typing allows it to spinblock as well. You can also do cool stuff with Shadow Force + Toxic Spikes, I know Dice and BKC made a cool team with Toxic Spikes + SD Ghosty.

Outrage isn't spammable so long your opponent has a Fairy type around and Dragon-typing is not terribly good defensively & has little utility. I guess it soft checks Kyogre? I wouldn't build a team with this Pokemon, and I use mons like Alomomola and Aerodactyl :/.

 

[Guidorealmsmc]

Can we just bump arceus flying and ice up to C+? They are better then every arceus form there and why isn't arceus psychic D rank?

 

[Prinz]

Guess Arceus Ice and Flying are ok where they are (Ice is a bit better but not good enough to deserve a rise), Also Arceus Dragon doesn't deserve a rise as well, it's just too mediocre (and there are a lot of many other good Arceus formes to use anyway)

Also why is regular Sableye in C rank? I really see no point to use it in its regular form, and since you have already put Mega Sableye in another rank (C+, which seems ok by me), I don't see any reason why Sableye would be ranked here, just unrank it please.

 

[Didoy75]

Guess Arceus Ice and Flying are ok where they are (Ice is a bit better but not good enough to deserve a rise), Also Arceus Dragon doesn't deserve a rise as well, it's just too mediocre (and there are a lot of many other good Arceus formes to use anyway)

Also why is regular Sableye in C rank? I really see no point to use it in its regular form, and since you have already put Mega Sableye in another rank (C+, which seems ok by me), I don't see any reason why Sableye would be ranked here, just unrank it please.

Even if nobody run non-mega Sableye, Prankster Will-O-Wisp will always have utility.
+ Access to Prankster Taunt and reliable way to recover health (Recover).
So I dont think it should be unranked, maybe C- ?

 

[TheEpicCD56]

Hello, I have a nomination that I'm pretty sure a lot of people will disagree on me with.

Metagross -Mega to B-/B(Maybe B+, A- is pushing it): There is a reason that Mega Metagross is being suspected in OU. With it's ability, typing, stats, and movepool, this pokemon is a force to be reckoned with. First off, tough claws. Comparing it to it's pseudo-legendary counterpart, Mega-Salamence, Tough Claws doesn't seem like that good of an ability next to Aerilate. While that is true, it's still good, and it's like holding a life orb with a better attacking stat without recoil. That is always welcome by me. Next off, it's typing. Defensively this Generation, Steel recieved a nerf. HOWEVER, offensively, it serves as one of the best checks to Xerneas in the entire metagame. Having Superb bulk, awesome attacking stats, and good speed, this can live a hit from that fucking deer and OHKO it with tough claws boosted STAB Meteor Mash in return. Having the stat boosts to a BST of 700 is nice, and with 80/150/110 bulk, it should live most neutral hits that come it's way at full health. Having 145/105 Attacking stats are nice too, but it's obviously going to be a physical attacker (Except for Grass Knot, which allows it to check Primal Kyogre which would otherwise wall it.) and last, but definetly not least, the speed boost. If it didn't have 110 Speed, there would be next to no reason to use this thing. That speed stat allows you to outspeed The Primals, unboosted Xerneas and Yveltal, Ho-oh, and many other base 90's there are in this tier. Lastly, the movepool. Meteor Mash and Zen Headbutt are staples, but the rest is up to you. You have the ability to choose your checks and "counters". Scared of Skarmory or Yveltal or Ho-oh? Thunder punch it. Salamence is a threat? Ice Punch. Primal Kyogre? Grass Knot. Primal Groudon? Earthquake. Scared of Geomancy Xerneas sweeping you team? Run bullet punch to beat it if it is weakened. E-killer? Hammer Arm. There are so many ways to beat almost any "check" that metagross has with one of it's coverage moves. That being said, it does have 4MSS, but team support can get around that. Move Mega Metagross to B- at lowest, B+ at highest.

 

[Minority]

Metagross is fine where it is and the OU suspect of it has no bearing on it in Ubers (see Deo-N, Mega Mawile, etc.). It has massive opportunity cost and is in competition with Pokemon such as Mega Scizor and even Aegislash. Steel is a poor offensive type, it is bait for several prominent Pokemon in Ubers, it just isn't the strongest thing in the world, has no method of recovery, etc. I believe it has a niche, but in general other mons are superior for what it can do, which is why I think C+ is a good fit.