its becoming relevant bc custap was released recently
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Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V2 - Check Post #2500 PG. 100
- Thread starter trc
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I take all my shit talk about this thing back and it really is not B- worthy. It's not as bad as people claim it is and in fact it's actually an improvement especially in bulk is better then base ttar by a noticable amount:
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 296-350 (86.8 - 102.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 228-270 (66.8 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Normal Ttar has a very high chance to die to a banded scizor's bullet punch after rocks and it's mega can easily live it even with rocks up. It even has all the pros of it's base form such as good bulk,strong af,and a good movepool. Another good pro of it is with how prominent scarf tar is it's very easy to bluff it and set up a dragon dance especially with 100/154/120 bulk. It's also a gr8 special tank as after sand and max spdef and a careful nature it's special defense is 558 and it's speed got a small but important buff that allows it to outrun jolly sharp by 1 point and bisharp can't even OHKO it:252 Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 234-276 (68.6 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock. However it's opportunity cost makes me only want it to go to B and no higher.
The way I see it, rhyperior was only ranked that high in the first place for its ability to better check birds and char-x than hippo can. Now that hippo can check more stuff like mmeta (rhyp obv loses to mmash) and diancie (losing to earth power), even though hippo is worse at checking birds and char-x, its better overall than rhyp is.
if we're ranking it on basis on offensive presence, a cb rhyperior set is actually something i've tried that's incredibly fun. I can attest for you that a wallbreaker set on rhyp is surprisingly effective, as his coverage extends to stabs, aqua tail, and all the elemental punches, making him a hard hitter and a solid lure to common checks. Despite this, its really not worth it to keep it at the rank it is because as a bulky ground, there are simply far more important things that hippo can do in oras as opposed to xy.
It's simply not on the level of mega chomp, alomo, and megatar. it should be C+
I disagree with this. Obviously it's a buffed version of regular Tar, but the opportunity cost is just too great. Think Mega Latios: he's great on paper, but regular Latios and another Mega would suit your team better nine times out of ten (maybe more), so he's sitting there in C rank. Also, banded Scizor isn't the most threatening thing as it stands; if you can find other things that Mega Tar can take that its base form cannot, I might support this nomination, but for the moment I don't think Mega Tar should rise. Moreover, Mega Tar's only viable set is its DD set; if you're running specially defensive Tar, you want Smooth Rock to boost your SpD for some extra turns, or Leftovers for passive recovery. With Mega Tar, you get neither.for B
I take all my shit talk about this thing back and it really is not B- worthy. It's not as bad as people claim it is and in fact it's bulk is increased from base ttar by a noticable amount:
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 296-350 (86.8 - 102.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 228-270 (66.8 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Normal Ttar has a very high chance to die to a banded scizor's bullet punch after rocks and it's mega can easily live it even with rocks up. It even has all the pros of it's base form such as good bulk,strong af,and a good movepool. Another good pro of it is with how prominent scarf tar is it's very easy to bluff it and set up a dragon dance especially with 100/154/120 bulk. It's also a gr8 special tank as after sand and max spdef and a careful nature it's special defense is 558. However it's opportunity cost makes me only want it to go to B and no higher.
Thus, I think it should stay in B-
Mega Tyranitars opportunity cost doesn't even come close to the opportunity cost that Mega Latios has so where is this coming from >_>?!? Also it's not even found on the same kinds of teams that regular Tyranitar and Mega Tyranitar generally associate themselves with. I mean it should stay B- for the fact that it's a bit team specific these days because you generally build around Mega Tyranitar along with the fact it can provide sand as an asset to Excadrill and being a pretty underrated threat but no idea how this assumption that there is an opportunity cost on the level of Mega Latios rofl. It's actually good on paper and in practice and that 9/10 analogy was underestimating what it can actually do by a long shot.
There's an incredibly big difference between the opportunity cost for T-tar and Latios. For Mega Latios, the reason it's bad is because it just does the exact same thing as Latios and you're not gaining anything new. You'd choose it for the same reason you'd choose base Latios. Whereas with T-tar, Mega T-tar does a completely different thing to base T-tar. You can't tell me you've pulled off D-dance/R-Polish with base T-tar; that's not it's role. T-tar is best in support roles and tanking and such; while Mega T-tar pulls off sweeping and late-game cleaning. The only possible ways opportunity cost comes into it is that there are other dragon dancing megas and that you're missing out on one of the best support 'mon in the game; it's nowhere near the levels of bad Mega Latios is.
Custap Berry was only released for this generation a short time ago. The reason it's becoming so popular on offensive teams as a lead is because it has access to both SR and Spikes, can Taunt slower leads (w/o Magic Bounce), can run Brave Bird and/or Iron Head for a decent STAB attack, has Sturdy to allow it to almost always be able to get up at least two hazards, has a great defensive typing, and has great physical defense in general. Now that it's been released, Custap Skarm may actually be one of the best suicide leads in the tier, and it's great for any team that could benefit from virtually guaranteed hazard stacking. It does have a few drawbacks, but I think the Custap set might actually lead to a major increase in Skarm's viability. However, it's still a bit too early to say for certain, so I'm not gonna nominate it for the time being. But it's definitely gonna be relevant.
Although I have to agree with keeping T-tar at B-, everyone is taking this opportunity cost thing a bit too far. He is still a fantastic mon to sweep with late game and can be somewhat unpredictable with a really good movepool at it's disposal. The problem is there are so many great Dragon Dance users now. As amazing as mega T-Tar is he just isn't the best at what he does. I'm hoping for a meta shift in his favor sometime soon, but until then I think he is ok in B-.
I actually want to bring back up the nomination on Ampharos, I think this think is actually way better than given credit for imo, and I think it deserves a boost. It actually has a few sets that I think are worth using in agility, rest talk and cotton guard. It has an awesome as well as useful typing and can really wall some important mons. I think it at least deserves a rise to C+ imo. I think it's versatility, and great typing as well as stats make it worth that alone.
Mr. Hothead
formerly Salt2DaFeds
Since it looks like the OU council is still debating about Excadrill and we can really talk about anything rn id like to say my opinion towards Excadrill.
Excadrill: A ----> A+
Talk about destroying Offense. This thing is a monster, being a rapid spinner to being an SD'er. Few things stop this. 2HKOing and OHKOing the whole meta (besides fucking skarm) with a +2 and in sand, this thing has nearly unmatchable power. Not even Lando T can stop SDcadrill.
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 305-360 (95.6 - 112.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Tearing away balance decently too, Hippo cant even switch into +2 EQ.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 335-395 (79.7 - 94%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Now, since i dont want to base my argument on calcs, lets talk about its pros:
Being Immune to Toxic- No Toxic= less wearing down. This allows Excadrill to be worryless about being toxic stalled.
Being Immune to TWave- The bane of speedy sweepers, Excadrill cannot be slowed down, unless hit by Body Slam or Glare.
Sand Rush- Doubling its speed, it is outsped by only Hawlucha and RP Lando and Priority. Thats not a lot of things that stop it.
Nearly Unmatched power- At +2 few things check it. BandZu is your only hope.
Tiny SR Damage- Excadrill can switch in 33 times before fainting due to its double resist to Stealth Rock. This makes it harder to be worn down.
Being surprisingly hard to wear down, being extremely powerful, and having other traits like checking birdspam, this is an easy A+ nom. IMO this is as good if not better than MLop, Bisharp and others.
Its Scarf Mold Breaker set should also be mentioned. Although losing out on flexibility, it can now hit Rotom W harder and Levitate users in general. It also negates Unaware (if thats useful) and so on. Obviously its an A+ mon for its Sand Rush set, but Mold Breaker is a good Rotom W lure.
Even though it does need Sand support, it is by far nearly broken in sand. And, Sand isnt really that hard to setup. All you really need to do is switch in TTar.
With the little support it needs, this mon is the best sand abuser by far and is well worthy of A+ imo.
Excadrill: A ----> A+
Talk about destroying Offense. This thing is a monster, being a rapid spinner to being an SD'er. Few things stop this. 2HKOing and OHKOing the whole meta (besides fucking skarm) with a +2 and in sand, this thing has nearly unmatchable power. Not even Lando T can stop SDcadrill.
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 305-360 (95.6 - 112.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Tearing away balance decently too, Hippo cant even switch into +2 EQ.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 335-395 (79.7 - 94%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Now, since i dont want to base my argument on calcs, lets talk about its pros:
Being Immune to Toxic- No Toxic= less wearing down. This allows Excadrill to be worryless about being toxic stalled.
Being Immune to TWave- The bane of speedy sweepers, Excadrill cannot be slowed down, unless hit by Body Slam or Glare.
Sand Rush- Doubling its speed, it is outsped by only Hawlucha and RP Lando and Priority. Thats not a lot of things that stop it.
Nearly Unmatched power- At +2 few things check it. BandZu is your only hope.
Tiny SR Damage- Excadrill can switch in 33 times before fainting due to its double resist to Stealth Rock. This makes it harder to be worn down.
Being surprisingly hard to wear down, being extremely powerful, and having other traits like checking birdspam, this is an easy A+ nom. IMO this is as good if not better than MLop, Bisharp and others.
Its Scarf Mold Breaker set should also be mentioned. Although losing out on flexibility, it can now hit Rotom W harder and Levitate users in general. It also negates Unaware (if thats useful) and so on. Obviously its an A+ mon for its Sand Rush set, but Mold Breaker is a good Rotom W lure.
Even though it does need Sand support, it is by far nearly broken in sand. And, Sand isnt really that hard to setup. All you really need to do is switch in TTar.
With the little support it needs, this mon is the best sand abuser by far and is well worthy of A+ imo.
Adding to your sea of calcs does Hydreigon even need to predict Mega Altaria?
252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Altaria: 87-103 (24.5 - 29%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Altaria: 234-276 (66.1 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That's an average of 98.75% and a max of 106.9% which means Dark Pulse + Flash Cannon takes down altaria after rocks. No prediction needed. This thing is savage. Fairies be damned
Edit: -2 252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 114-136 (31.3 - 37.3%) -- 85.2% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 142-168 (39 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Also, why not use Dark Pulse instead of -2 Draco Meteor in calcs? It's stronger and spamming Dark Pulse is a realistic scenario often making its switch ins eat this before a Meteor.
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True, I didn't really mention it since last time I heard BD Chesnaught brought up, people dismissed it's only value as surprise value, but that's quite true and is a major part of its effectiveness. I'll edit it in.
Definitely true. I'll make some edits for this too.
I take responsibility for this. I said that Mega T-Tar had a fat opportunity cost. Definitely undersold some stuff about it. Also, I'm pretty sure that this has been said before, but Slowking should get boosted to B- or B. If you're looking for a check for everything in S rank barring Mega Altaria, Slowking's your guy. Resists Mega Metagross's STABs & doesn't take as much from Grass Knot as its brother Slowbro does
0 SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Slowking: 112-132 (28.4 - 33.5%) -- 95.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Tough Claws Mega Metagross Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 192-226 (48.7 - 57.3%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
Same can be said about Keldeo & it doesn't take much at all from a super effective Hidden Power it may be running while it 2HKOs back with Psyshock
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hidden Power Electric vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Slowking: 136-162 (34.5 - 41.1%) -- 65.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (but realistically, when is Specs Keldeo gonna run HP Electric)
And as long as Landorus-I doesn't pack Knock Off, Slowking can check him as well
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 212+ SpD Slowking: 160-188 (40.6 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (Best move that Lando-I can go for if it's lacking Knock Off otherwise...
0 Atk Life Orb Landorus Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 44 Def Slowking: 250-296 (63.4 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery)
Slowking & Slowbro have similar movepools, but Slowking is often overlooked due to the physically offensive oriented nature of the game. Slowking has a niche in dealing with Mega Metagross, Landorus-I (lacking Knock Off), and Keldeo at the same time while dealing with the special attackers that this tier boasts which should merit a boost to at least B- for Slowking.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-221178743
I feel Scizor could honestly move higher than B+ but thatll have to do for now.
tl;dr
-Good revenge killer
-U-Turn makes my dick rock hard
-Doesnt cost a mega
-Good movepool
-Looks fucking amazing
-Influx of Fairies
Seconding a few noms:
Hydreigon to B+: Definitely agree here, if not B+ then at least B but B+ seems more fitting for it. What makes it amazing is that it hardly needs to predict. Dark Pulse is so spammable when it can just follow up with the appropriate coverage move or Draco. A very underprepared for threat (what is grammar) and its ability to break through would be checks (Altaria, Clefable, Gardevoir pre-mega, Chansey etc.) with Flash cannon and Superpower or other coverage moves is amazing. Defensive cores are smashed by it and its somewhat decent speed tier (OK it's not that good atm) is juts enough to outspeed things like Kyubes, and most things faster than it are far too frail to switch in on a Dark Pulse/Draco.
Excadrill to A+: ...mostly in agreement, but it has some competition with Starmie as an offensive spinner now, and Starmie's speed is more reliable rather than locking yourself into a move if it's the scarfed Mold Breaker or needing sand if it's the Sand Rush set. However, Excadrill is not only a spinner but with Life Orb 2HKOes most if not all of the bulkier walls minus Skarm. I guess I would agree that it should go up if it comes down to it, but I'm a little iffy. The Sand Rush set is so good against offense but falls down a little against stall and sometimes against balance depending on the opponent's team. But, as I said, I think A+ is right for it due to its shitting on offense and its power.
Mega Ampharos to C+: Yeah, I think it deserves a rise. With typing to stop Birdspam and actually set up on Talonflame if it's the agility set, Mold Breaker Toxic that hits Diancie and Sableye, plus having at least 3 viable sets is handy. C+ seems good for it.
Scizor to B+: The thing's so annoying when you're basically forced into 50/50s, where even if they predict wrong they get a free switch. For example, I have say my Clefable out and I want to switch into my Hippowdon to take a BP but they could just as easily U-Turn. If I stay in with Clef, even if they predict wrong and U-Turn, they still get to switch into something to take my hit. U-Turn's bonus of having no immunities as opposed to Volt Switch, plus the bonus of being STAB Choice Banded from a Scizor, is so easy just to click every time it comes in. It cleans late game with Bullet Punch and is an amazing pivot with its defensive typing. It can actually switch into and Pursuit trap MMeta, which is sooo good in the current metagame where that thing is running rampant. Pursuit takes a hefty chunk of Metagross's health even if it doesn't switch out (around 50% min due to being Technician boosted) or a clean 67% minimum if it does switch.
Would like to add, just thinking of Mega Garchomp in its B- rank, does anyone think it should rise? I haven't used it too much myself but when I have it destroys teams with Sand up. I feel like it and Mega Heracross are very similar in their roles except Hera hits slightly stronger even with sand up, however Hera can't go mixed and is slower and isn't quite as physically bulky. It also is beaten straight up by all forms of bird spam. Not saying Mega Chomp is better than it but just wondering if Chomp deserves a rise to B. Again, I haven't used it much so someone who has might have a better input than me.
Just changed it from mega Scizor to regular Scizor, thanks Flygonial for pointing that out.
Hydreigon to B+: Definitely agree here, if not B+ then at least B but B+ seems more fitting for it. What makes it amazing is that it hardly needs to predict. Dark Pulse is so spammable when it can just follow up with the appropriate coverage move or Draco. A very underprepared for threat (what is grammar) and its ability to break through would be checks (Altaria, Clefable, Gardevoir pre-mega, Chansey etc.) with Flash cannon and Superpower or other coverage moves is amazing. Defensive cores are smashed by it and its somewhat decent speed tier (OK it's not that good atm) is juts enough to outspeed things like Kyubes, and most things faster than it are far too frail to switch in on a Dark Pulse/Draco.
Excadrill to A+: ...mostly in agreement, but it has some competition with Starmie as an offensive spinner now, and Starmie's speed is more reliable rather than locking yourself into a move if it's the scarfed Mold Breaker or needing sand if it's the Sand Rush set. However, Excadrill is not only a spinner but with Life Orb 2HKOes most if not all of the bulkier walls minus Skarm. I guess I would agree that it should go up if it comes down to it, but I'm a little iffy. The Sand Rush set is so good against offense but falls down a little against stall and sometimes against balance depending on the opponent's team. But, as I said, I think A+ is right for it due to its shitting on offense and its power.
Mega Ampharos to C+: Yeah, I think it deserves a rise. With typing to stop Birdspam and actually set up on Talonflame if it's the agility set, Mold Breaker Toxic that hits Diancie and Sableye, plus having at least 3 viable sets is handy. C+ seems good for it.
Scizor to B+: The thing's so annoying when you're basically forced into 50/50s, where even if they predict wrong they get a free switch. For example, I have say my Clefable out and I want to switch into my Hippowdon to take a BP but they could just as easily U-Turn. If I stay in with Clef, even if they predict wrong and U-Turn, they still get to switch into something to take my hit. U-Turn's bonus of having no immunities as opposed to Volt Switch, plus the bonus of being STAB Choice Banded from a Scizor, is so easy just to click every time it comes in. It cleans late game with Bullet Punch and is an amazing pivot with its defensive typing. It can actually switch into and Pursuit trap MMeta, which is sooo good in the current metagame where that thing is running rampant. Pursuit takes a hefty chunk of Metagross's health even if it doesn't switch out (around 50% min due to being Technician boosted) or a clean 67% minimum if it does switch.
Would like to add, just thinking of Mega Garchomp in its B- rank, does anyone think it should rise? I haven't used it too much myself but when I have it destroys teams with Sand up. I feel like it and Mega Heracross are very similar in their roles except Hera hits slightly stronger even with sand up, however Hera can't go mixed and is slower and isn't quite as physically bulky. It also is beaten straight up by all forms of bird spam. Not saying Mega Chomp is better than it but just wondering if Chomp deserves a rise to B. Again, I haven't used it much so someone who has might have a better input than me.
Just changed it from mega Scizor to regular Scizor, thanks Flygonial for pointing that out.
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I guess I'll hop on the bandwagon. I am also nominating Excadrill for A+.
I'm sure I don't have to echo what people above me have already said about Excadrill too much. I'll keep it short. Absolutely fantastic wallbreaker. It's SD + Balloon set combined with sand is absolutely devastating to a variety teams, especially late game. Life orb is just scary and doesn't even require excadrill to set up in order to sweep/clean the opposing team. Tyranitar + Excadrill is definitely an archetype you can't not prepare for in this metagame. Excadrill's speed (in sand), typing and sheer power are a definite force to be reckoned with atm. In my opinion, it has all the tools necessary to be A+.
I'm sure I don't have to echo what people above me have already said about Excadrill too much. I'll keep it short. Absolutely fantastic wallbreaker. It's SD + Balloon set combined with sand is absolutely devastating to a variety teams, especially late game. Life orb is just scary and doesn't even require excadrill to set up in order to sweep/clean the opposing team. Tyranitar + Excadrill is definitely an archetype you can't not prepare for in this metagame. Excadrill's speed (in sand), typing and sheer power are a definite force to be reckoned with atm. In my opinion, it has all the tools necessary to be A+.
I think that you nominated the wrong pokemon to move up. I know you meant CB Scizor, but you actually said Mega Scizor to B+, which would be moving it down a whole rank. Otherwise, I agree with it.
Your totaly overselling it imo. Yes at +2 in Sand he is dangerous but there is a big if involved here. You need to get sand up bring Exca into battle and get an SD WITHOUT taking tons of damage. Good look doing that especially if you consider that Excadrill has pretty bad defenses and is weak to 4 very common attacking types. You will have a hard time finding something in the S and A ranks that cannot at least 2hko him. And even if you manage to get sand and + 2 without any damage on Exca your still on a clock of at least 6 turns which can be easily exploited by pivoting around since there are plenty of resists/immunitys to Excas Stabs on most teams. Then there is the opportunity cost of running SD over rapid spin, which is pretty big if you ask me, as its ability to spin is one of the main reasons to use exca in the first place. Then there is your hippo calc. Why would hippo switch into a +2 SD? If hes going to switch in then it will be on the turn where you SD. And in that case your Excadrill sweep will be short because even mixed def hippo lives an +2 attack. Same is true for bulky lando T, bulky chomp and a number of other bulky mons who can all do a shit ton of damage to him.
And using mold breaker as a rotom-w lure isnt gonna work against an opponent who can read because he gets a warning.
I dont know if Exca is A+ worthy, imo it depends alot on how good Sand teams are rn but in any case your post is making him look a lot better than he actually is in practise.
Excadrill, (due to the amount switches it forces) actually doesn't have too hard of a time setting up if you put pressure on your opponent late game.
Once your opponent realizes that it is Sand Rush, more things are at risk of being KO'd than usual. (Talonflame for example risks dying to Rock Slide when under usual circumstances it would just Flare Blitz Exca.) Like almost any other sweeper, one mistake is all it takes for Excadrill to sweep. Air Balloon Excadrill also has the benefit of setting up on Pokes such as Standard Hippowdon, (Who can not toxic or EQ it, only phase in some circumstances.) Gliscor, (Again, can not toxic or EQ it) some variants of Garchomp and many more.
Also, not to nit pick or anything, but with Smooth Rock equipped on your sand-inducer you get 8 turns of sand, not 6. This again is more than enough time for substantial damage to happen to anyone's team as we all know. I don't think Salt2DaFeds was overselling Excadrill's ability in any way shape or form. Everything stated is extremely accurate and should be taken note of. Excadrill is exactly as good as he seems.
Hippo Gliscor etc usually have another attack like stone edge/knock off to break the balloon so thats not such a big issue. And the price for using that baloon is quite high because without LO Excadrill lacks the power to do considerable damage without an SD. And unless your planning to run Sand Storm on Excadrill along with a smooth rock, you wont have 8 turns of sand to sweep. 1 turn to switch from Ttar to Exca and 1 turn for set up = 6 turns. And thats kinda optimistic. Most of the time you wont be able to bring in ttar, switch to exca and set up SD all in one go. Most of the time it will be 4 or 5 turns.
"once your opponent realizes that it is sand rush"
Well showdown tells you when its mold breaker, so the fucking moment it comes in you know what ability it has :L
Anyways, the main problem i have with excadrill moving up is what's changed for it? every pro you pointed out was already a thing in xy, why should it move up now? If the ORAS meta hasn't shifted to favor excadrill, then idk why bother to raise it.
And don't bother to mention an "influx of fairies" as a reason, that should be dying down shortly with mmeta staying in the tier z_z
What I think the main reason excadrill should be raised is that there are more things that it needs to revenge kill for offense. Mega diancie, mega metagross, mega sceptile, mega lopunny, and mega beedril are all new pokemon that seriously pressure offensive teams, and some scarfers (such as heatran) aren't even fast enough to touch these guys. Offense is seriously screwed by these megas and needs something fast to revenge kill them without necessarily losing momentum (aka not pissweak scarfers like keldeo), and that's where excadrill comes in. Excadrill is powerful and fast and can SD through its checks if it felt like it (although its important to note that you must usually drop rapid spin in order to run SD). Exca is the fast mon offense wants that can also keep the momentum offense wants; and this alone is worth wasting a slot on smooth rock tar.
idk if that reasoning is enough to move it up, i don't feel too strongly about exca to A+ myself, but either way its more useful for offense now :L
I really don't care where this thing goes, but I will add a couple of positive points onto this post. Like for example... have you seen this things physical tankiness? It's not going to take a banded Aqua Jet from Azumarill, but this thing takes some attacks with ease. Mega Pinsir? Hell, it gets 2HKOED by a +2 Close Combat coming from that thing. Banded Raptor? 2HKOED. Also birdspam isn't that uncommon, Talon still sits at its crisp A+ ranking which is p much the main OU birdspam you can find these days, Raptor can but Raptor wallbreaks. But it doesn't break Rhyperior!Rhyperior: B- ----> C+
I really dont know why this thing is in the B ranks rn. The only thing this mon has over most mons is being able to set up rocks and destroy bird spam (which is really uncommon now) 3/4 S mons can kill it, and its slow speed does not make up for its shitty defensive typing.
In a metagame with a decline of birdspamming and an increase of hard hitting mons, he really lost his usage. Why would i use this over something like Hippo or TTar?
Its weak to practically every playstyle besides stall, and its pretty much deadweight if its facing balance or offense. What does this guy do?
Its RP sets are honestly gimmicky at best, and its basically outclassed as a birdspam counter and a wall in general. Slow speed and a bad defensive typing really took the toll with him being weak to Keldeo, MMeta, Lando I, Azu, BalloonTran, Lando T, and much more common mons. Overall, this isnt that great of a mon at all. If anything, it should go to C, but i think its good for C+.
+2 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 294-346 (69.3 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 183-216 (43.1 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Hell, it does tank some insane hits.
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 177-208 (41.7 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Now, it does lack something really important, reliable recovery. That's a big turn off for it. Also don't complain about it being super weak on the special side, yeah it's not meant to tank special hits, it's meant to tank physical hits. It also hits decently hard as well, having a STAB EdgeQuake combination and being quite good even with minimal investment, also has access to Ice Punch which makes Lando and Gliscor cry upon switch in. ((Defensive Lando-T takes it decently well but no reliable recovery and can't deal much back.))
Now, it does sufer in front of Azu, which is common and most special attackers break it with ease. Also not having access to reliable recovery makes it iffy and not many would want to use it unless it filled a really good niche on the team aforementioned. It has a good offensive typing but the lack of sped ((but godly attack)) makes it OK as a tank, but overall people would use TTar as a better birdspam check, although Rhp does counter birdspam since it tanks it so well, even coverage moves. TTar doesn't exactly like being hit with U-Turns, Earthquakes, and Close Combats as much as Rhyperior does. Hippo does have a better niche over it, taking these hits decently well and not being quad weak to grass and water, while not having a quad weakness to fighting or a weakness to bug either.
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 232-274 (55.2 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Actually ouch, but Raptor isn't that common so who cares right? Well it's still there for reference, and Raptor doesn't like all the recoil because of the fat HP stat. Scarf does a decent amount as well, but Hippo can just threaten with Stone Edge if it gets nailed on the switch which I think is best fitting for this scenario. Megagross does a decent amount to Rhyp as well iirc...
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 211-249 (49.7 - 58.7%) -- 70.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Eh, decent, but Earthquake does a ton and leaves Megagross ready to be revenged if it comes down to that.
44+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 230-272 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
((Also Grass Knot kills Rhyperior lol.))
I guess that's al, I can't think of any more things to say about it. Sorry for being overly positive about Rhyp, but I did try to put in some negative stuff about it. (Like how it dies to every special attacker in existence rofl.))
jzplr
formerly SuperLuigi9624
I'm not sure about defending Rhyperior's drop, I think it should drop too, but here's a neat thing about Rhyperior.
+4 252+ Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 212 HP / 252 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 354-417 (83.4 - 98.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
It completely destroys Mega Charizard X. That thing is +4 and it lives and kills it with Earthquake. Hell, there's no way anyone's gonna let a Charizard get away with even a +2 Dragon Dance, it's more for comparison.
That's all I really wanted to say. It's a Zard X check. Nice.
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