Someone please explain to me why Clefable is considered a god? I mean, its a good pokemon and all, but its considered the BEST in its tier. I just dont see why its so good. I've played against it and even tried to use one with the sets online, but it never does anything spectacular for either side. Someone please help me understand why its "amazing".
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Resource ORAS OU Simple Questions, Simple Answers MKII (Read the OP First!) (Now with 100% more Rules!!!)
- Thread starter ginganinja
- Start date
Checks a ton of dangerous stuff like Mega Zam, Mega Hera, Latios, Torn-T, and Mega Lopunny just to name a few. Immunity to hazards and toxic makes it harder to wear down than a non-MG threat, which just gives it a better chance of keeping its bulk up compared to anything else which has to deal with toxic / SR / Spikes / burns when checking things. Makes for a fantastic Calm Mind win condition thanks again to Magic Guard. Can customize it's moveset pretty freely as it only needs Moonblast, CM and Softboiled, and has a massive movepool at that with options like Fire Blast, Thunder Wave, Knock Off, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Stored Power, Focus Blast, etc.
Versatility, or how many viable sets it has. It's not the king of this, but it's up there, and the different variants are pretty high impact imo.
The big one is splashability, or how well it fits on to any team. You can just slap that thing on just about anything and it can often hold the team together like glue.
Overall, I find the viability rankings on here are more of a rating of those two factors than it is a rating of how "spectacular" or "overpowered" a Pokemon is. You're not going to see Clefable go postal on a team, but you'll find it difficult to find a situation where it isn't useful.
I do agree in that I don't think it's absolutely spectaclular, I do think it's bulk before setup isn't THAT great, but you'd be hard pressed to find Clefable being dead weight on a team.
Weren't Aegislash and Greninja up there pretty much until they were banned? I also remember Keldeo being S-Rank for like forever.
Clef has been S rank pretty much all of ORAS lol
It's in A+ right now...
Wait what? When did this happen? I haven't checked it in a while.
It happened quite some time ago, about the time that the rankings were revamped iirc
LOL, now I get some Clefable puns that where made left and right.
Lando-T pairs well with Rotom-W, forming a Voltturn core and giving the team a reliable rocker, and it offers a slow u turn to get medi in to wallbreak. Additionally, Keldeo is a great partner with those three since ttar traps the latis and it forms a potent fighting spam core with Medicham.
Wow Mgarde is probably better because it's ability to wallbreak pairs with lucario pretty well and gives it more of a chance to clean,
Alright, thanks !
Any idea for some defensive partners ?
Defensively, HP Ice Lando-T is nice to lure in opposing Lando-t for iron tail luc, klefki is nice because lucario reall appreciates spikes support, and another good offensive Partner I'd Choice Scarf Magnezone as it traps Skarmory, which is a headache for the core, and it also helps deal with Jirachi, who can be annoying to Garde.
Hey guys,
this topic bugs me for over a month now, and I still don't know the correct answer. Hope you guys can help me!
So, my question ist about EV-Investment. I will support my question with the following examples:
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Example 1:
Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
Example 2:
Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 240 HP / 176 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
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@Example 1:
So, you have Empoleon. The thing is, I thought I understand the EV-Investment thing with odd numbers and stuff. Stealth Rock Number, Leftovers Number, all that. I know I know. But now I see Empoleon with its standard Special Utility Set and 248 HP/252 SpD. 248 EV-Investment hits 371 HP. Question: Why don't you run 240HP/16Def/252SpD? You're having the same effect, but you're not 'wasting' 8 EV Points. Or am I missing something? That's why I'm asking in the first place.
371 HP (248 EV) divided by 16 (SR Damage or Leftovers Recovery) equals 23,1875 ~ 23.
369 HP (240 EV) divided by 16 (SR Damage or Leftovers Recovery) equals 23,0625 ~ 23.
Or even 236HP/20Def/252SpD? It would result in 368 HP and accordingly exactly 23. Thus, you don't waste percentages with Leftovers (ergo 368 = Leftovers Number). And yes, 368 would also be a nasty SR Number, but in this case its irrelevant, because nevertheless you will lose 23 HP and gain 23 HP again through Leftovers.
Or when you're thinking "Nah, I don't mind this stuff.", why don't you just run 252HP/4Def/252SpD and that's it? I'm asking this question, because someone must've sat their, thinking "Dude, 248/8/252". It's a standard set with decent usage in OU. Their must be some kind of reasoning.
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@Example 2:
Now Garchomp... Really, I don't get this set. Yeah, the 92 Speed EVs are for outspeeding Jolly Bish, I know. But I don't get the defense spread. In the SmogonDex, they say they need this build to survive Max Atk LO Bisharp Sucker Punch. But then I got this calc.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 240 HP / 176+ Def Garchomp: 289-341 (69.3 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
It survives it 'pretty easy'. You don't have to run this spread. So, why are you running this set? Are you trying to survive something, that isn't mentioned in the SmogonDex? For example: Why don't you run 164HP/252Def/92Spe? You have the same result in the Bisharp match up.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 164 HP / 252+ Def Garchomp: 270-320 (67.8 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Or if your argument is "I want the extra HP to tank some special hits too". Why don't you run 252 HP/164Def/92Spe? Same result in the Bisharp match up.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Garchomp: 292-344 (69.5 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
I calced all the HP numbers (252 HP-EV = 420 HP; 240 HP-EV = 417 HP; 164 HP-EV = 398 HP), and none is a SR Number. I just don't understand the spread. As I said before, I think it's to survive something else. But neither in the Smogon Forum nor in the Dex I've found something.
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Guys, you would really help me a lot if you could answer my questions. :)
Thank you for your attention and have a nice evening!
Regards,
Eckleburg
this topic bugs me for over a month now, and I still don't know the correct answer. Hope you guys can help me!
So, my question ist about EV-Investment. I will support my question with the following examples:
-
Example 1:
Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
Example 2:
Garchomp @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 240 HP / 176 Def / 92 Spe
Impish Nature
-
@Example 1:
So, you have Empoleon. The thing is, I thought I understand the EV-Investment thing with odd numbers and stuff. Stealth Rock Number, Leftovers Number, all that. I know I know. But now I see Empoleon with its standard Special Utility Set and 248 HP/252 SpD. 248 EV-Investment hits 371 HP. Question: Why don't you run 240HP/16Def/252SpD? You're having the same effect, but you're not 'wasting' 8 EV Points. Or am I missing something? That's why I'm asking in the first place.
371 HP (248 EV) divided by 16 (SR Damage or Leftovers Recovery) equals 23,1875 ~ 23.
369 HP (240 EV) divided by 16 (SR Damage or Leftovers Recovery) equals 23,0625 ~ 23.
Or even 236HP/20Def/252SpD? It would result in 368 HP and accordingly exactly 23. Thus, you don't waste percentages with Leftovers (ergo 368 = Leftovers Number). And yes, 368 would also be a nasty SR Number, but in this case its irrelevant, because nevertheless you will lose 23 HP and gain 23 HP again through Leftovers.
Or when you're thinking "Nah, I don't mind this stuff.", why don't you just run 252HP/4Def/252SpD and that's it? I'm asking this question, because someone must've sat their, thinking "Dude, 248/8/252". It's a standard set with decent usage in OU. Their must be some kind of reasoning.
-
@Example 2:
Now Garchomp... Really, I don't get this set. Yeah, the 92 Speed EVs are for outspeeding Jolly Bish, I know. But I don't get the defense spread. In the SmogonDex, they say they need this build to survive Max Atk LO Bisharp Sucker Punch. But then I got this calc.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 240 HP / 176+ Def Garchomp: 289-341 (69.3 - 81.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
It survives it 'pretty easy'. You don't have to run this spread. So, why are you running this set? Are you trying to survive something, that isn't mentioned in the SmogonDex? For example: Why don't you run 164HP/252Def/92Spe? You have the same result in the Bisharp match up.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 164 HP / 252+ Def Garchomp: 270-320 (67.8 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Or if your argument is "I want the extra HP to tank some special hits too". Why don't you run 252 HP/164Def/92Spe? Same result in the Bisharp match up.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Garchomp: 292-344 (69.5 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
I calced all the HP numbers (252 HP-EV = 420 HP; 240 HP-EV = 417 HP; 164 HP-EV = 398 HP), and none is a SR Number. I just don't understand the spread. As I said before, I think it's to survive something else. But neither in the Smogon Forum nor in the Dex I've found something.
-
Guys, you would really help me a lot if you could answer my questions. :)
Thank you for your attention and have a nice evening!
Regards,
Eckleburg
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I'd go with 236 HP on Empoleon, but only if it's leftovers. Stealth rock number doesn't really matter because empoleon already resists rocks. However you can go for a 232 HP if it's not leftovers in case of burn status. As for Garchomp: +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 240 HP / 176+ Def Garchomp: 351-413 (84.1 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Also I had a question of my own, to whom it may concern. Can the programmers please do something about endeavor raising attack IVs in teambuilding? My Stunfisk keeps getting confused from Tornadus-T's hurricane and it keeps hitting itself. Last week it cost me a game and it killed itself when it wasn't suppose to hit itself that hard. I almost always have to go back to the teambuilder and re-adjust it, and I find it really annoying especially when this doesn't apply to moves like foul play and rapid spin. Can it please be fixed? Thank you in advance.
Thanks for your reply! But again, if you want to live that Knock Off, why 240/176? Why won't you run 252/164? Thus, you have more special bulk too, and you also survive the same attack. Or 164/252, and you survive that one attack/physical hits even better?
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Garchomp: 355-419 (84.5 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 164 HP / 252+ Def Garchomp: 328-386 (82.4 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I have the feeling that you want to survive something else with 240/176? I don't know, I still don't get this spread. But everyone is running with it. As if everyone knows, except me.
I know, it sounds kinda nitpicking-ish. I'm sorry for that. But exactly that >is< EV-Builds & Spreads.
Edit: If someone else has something to say about the Empoleon thing (of course it's not just about Empoleon, their are a lot of cases of 248 HP-EVs I don't get), please say it. :) Thank you!
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I don't really know if I'm answering your question the way you want it, but a lot of people don't often know what certain spreads do, like that Garchomp spread. 248 HP EVs is so you take less from rocks I believe so like if you have a 13℅ Pokemon neutral to rocks it might not die (depending on the decimal). Idk I could be wrong so feel free to correct me on this
That is actually incorrect, if you have a Pokemon at 13%, it could be any range from 12.000...1% to 13% because of showdown's rounding system, and Stealth Rock does 12.5% of your HP, so unless you calculate exactly what percent of your total HP you have leftover, you have a random chance of dying to rocks or not. However, 248 EVs mean that you can switch directly into Stealth Rock 8 times without dying, and you will be left at 1%, provided that Rocks are the only damage that you take.