Lower Tiers ORAS NU Viability Rankings

[Oda]

B+ => A-

There's been a ton of buzz about Weezing recently and it's more than justified, as it's a fantastic anti-meta defensive pivot at the moment, stopping the new Steelix / Sceptile / Pinsir in their tracks with its standard physically defensive spread while still dealing with old threats such as Sawk / Rhydon / Hariyama / Piloswine. Upon switching in, Weezing can spread Burns around the opponent's team, use Sludge Bomb to inflict reasonable damage (and potentially punish switch-ins with Poison), use Pain Split to get some health back later in the game, or set-up Toxic Spikes for its teammates to abuse. Flamethrower also ensures it isn't dead weight against Steels after it Burns them. It can even run Memento to help a sweeper set up once its health is depleted, while Clear Smog and Haze can be used to deter opposing setup sweepers. Especially in the early game, Weezing can consistently switch in to threatening attackers without being too passive, due to its variety of offensive/disruptive options. Black Sludge is the best item in general as it provides more recovery and punishes Trick users, but Rocky Helmet is also good for really stacking up residual damage, as Weezing will switch into contact attacks most of the time. While its lack of reliable recovery and mediocre special bulk are drawbacks, Mega-Audino is a fantastic partner that can deal with both of these problems on both defensive and balanced teams at very little opportunity cost, and Weezing's superb matchup against the metagame in general at this point makes it worthy of A-, in my opinion.

Weezing will definetely see some more usage with the viability of defensive teams going up but it might have to change up it's set depending on how the meta shapes itself. Life Orb Leaf storm from Scpetile does over half to weezing so Mixed Wall or SPdef Weezing might become a thing with Pain Split being used over Tspikes or Taunt to help check Sceptile and other Special and Physical attackers throughout the match because Weezing can afford to because of his high natural def. However with the potential rise of Weezing, he still has to worry about MB Pinsir who can run earthquake to deal with Bulky poisons and steels like Garb, Weezing, Steelix if you can nail them on the switch.

252 Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Pinsir Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 177-208 (52.9 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

Also I agree with

B--> B+/A-

Though alot of people think Pilo has too many common weakness, is slow, weak to Knock off and only resists Poison, Ice and immune to Electric it is still a fantastic offensive rocker that is incredibly hard to switch into its dual stabs and is incredibulky with eviolite. The top 3 new drops are all weak to it's stabs and Swellow rising to deal with Sceptile also makes its priority Ice Shard to dent Sceptile, Swellow and Altaria very nice.

However with Steelix becoming a popular offensive rocker Pilo might face comepition in that role. Pilo cant reliably 2hko steelix especially if it runs impish (then its a 3hko after lefties) and Steelix can 2hko with heavy slam with just 128 atk evs.

Even though both of them have similar roles and deciding on what ground type offensive rocker you wish to put on your team, the fact that offensive ice types such as Jynx might see a rise (especially a scarf set that could surprise the sceptiles and swellows) this makes Piloswine even more useful in this meta due to thick fat.

 

[Raseri]

Lanturn from A+ -> Somewhere less than that prob A or A-

Sceptile has really made Lanturn drop quite a bit imo, and with the fall of Lanturn, there are fewer Lanturn running around to counter it! But really this metagame isn't as kind to it as the previous one is, and its threat level has dropped substantially. It's still a good general sponge, and volt switch is always nice, but it isn't nearly as omnipresent and effective as it was before

Zangoose B+ -> B

I hate Zangoose, I have for quite awhile. Zangoose is an OK wallbreaker, but nearly every team can deal with it without too much trouble. The residual damage from Toxic Orb + massive susceptibility to things like RH Aftermath Garbodor makes it very hard to get more than 1 KO per game. Not having 4MSS is nice, but despite the drop in power, I think Tauros and Kangaskhan are much more splashable and threatening normal-types in teambuilder

Rhydon S -> A+
Steelix A -> A+

Putting these 2 together because I think they are about the same in terms of viability, Steelix is a bit more splashable as a bulky SR mon, due to no 4x weaknesses, access to Leftovers, and being effectively able to deal with threats like CM musharna. While Rhydon has the fire resistance, the extra strength on Earthquakes, and more effective offensive sets such as RP. Right now I think they should be ranked together, as they are bothy very effective Pokemon that compete for the same team slot

 

[Punchshroom]

Personally I don't even see why

shouldn't be S Rank off the bat; it definitely seems enough of a meta-defining threat to warrant it. It has blazing Speed and a wicked powerful Leaf Storm, so already it can nuke a good majority of the tier. Then it has the coverage to back it up, with great moves such as Focus Blast, Earthquake, Hidden Power Ice, and Rock Slide leaving very few stones unturned in its rampage. The Overgrow LO Giga Drain is easily what I like most about All-Out Attacking Sceptile: it basically means that Sceptile becomes more or less unconcerned for its health, which is a pretty great trait for an offensive Pokemon to have (much like how Tauros does not have to care about LO recoil most of the time). The boosted Giga Drain packs a hefty punch as well as give Sceptile even better sustain, to the point where sometimes I just have Sceptile take extra Stealth Rock damage or the like just to inch it into Overgrow range, knowing I'll have no trouble keeping Sceptile out of the red with my next attack. And then we have the Swords Dance set, which utilizes the sheer presence of its specially mixed set to get easy setup opportunities (much like Samurott), and has excellent neutral coverage between Leaf Blade, Acrobatics, and Earthquake. A truly fearsome threat in the meta, Sceptile doesn't deserve any less than S.

On the other hand, I feel

has taken a bit of a hit in this meta. Floatzel is still pretty nice, but Sceptile is not only a direct threat to it, Sceptile also threatens one of the main niches Floatzel has, which is to outspeed a majority of the tier and hammer many offensive Pokemon with powerful moves with great neutral coverage.

 

[tmacbalanced]

I want to Nominate Jynx for A+ , the drops made Jynx much better in my opinion. Choice Scarf Jynx is a nice offensive check to Sceptile, Altaria, and Swellow who is getting some hype.
Jynx can also deal some big damage to Piloswine who is also getting some hype.

252 SpA Jynx Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 242-286 (59.9 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Jynx Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 315-372 (77.9 - 92%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Jynx is honestly excelling in this meta with it's ice typing and can deal with switch-ins with lovely kiss if a pokemon isn't already asleep. Other pokemon are also getting some hype that are weak to Jynx's other STAB like Weezing thanks to the drops so, I think Jynx can be a nice staple on teams.

 

[Maysoon]

I agree with Punch on Sceptile being placed in S. Not only does it have an amazing Ability which allows it to outspeed almost if not everything, it also has powerful stab and great coverage. Recently I've tried out Cursepass Musharna with White Herb Sceptile and it was pretty good considering I whipped the team up without thinking much. With Musharna already being the threat that it is makes this even more scary. Sceptile does so much the only thing that truly holds it back is the fact that it was trouble getting in without a slow pivot like Lanturn, Musharna, etc. As Punch also stated above LO Overgrow Giga Drain gives Sceptile longevity which is something I feel is very valuable in this meta especially with most S rank mons not having reliable recovery options. The worst part is that there are very few switch-ins that can comfortably take it on, if you Switch in Roselia expecting Some Grass move you can get bopped by Acro where any Hidden Power wouldnt be able to touch you really.

 

[ryan]

Also agree with Punchshroom on Sceptile being in S. It has a handful of sets and viable coverage moves on each set that are all good, and it's one of the only faster Pokemon in the meta that isn't piss weak. Speaking of which, can we finally drop Floatzel please? Thanks!

 

[Harald Glööökler]

Sceptile is really fast powerfull has a good ability and it has a 130 STAB Move why it should be in the s rank. Another thing is that i think kangashkan should be at least in the same rank like tauros. Its better Stab combined with important double priority is very important in such a fasst meta were swellow and sceptile are everywhere. Tauros niches over kangashkan are better speed and the ability to lure in the likes of steelix or rhydon but i dont think that this is enough to be higher ranked than kangashkan.

 

[Deltre]

I agree with the nominations for Sceptile -> S Rank and Piloswine B -> B+ Rank, for reasons stated already by other users.

As for my own nomination, I'd like to see Pelipper rise from B- -> B Rank. Pelipper is relatively uncommon right now, but it can serve as a good check to fighting types (Sawk, Hitmonchan), physically based water types (Rott), as well as a multitude of other physically based mons (Mawile, Klinklang, 'Cheops to name a few). The main thing Pelipper has over other physical walls (excluding potential type synergy) is its access to Defog and reliable recovery in Roost, allowing it to perform its job multiple times throughout a match. It also has the ability to grab momentum and ease prediction with U-Turn, something that many other physical walls wish they could do. Also, Pelipper serves as a great answer to one of the more popular drops in Steelix, with its ability to wall it completely unless it runs an obscure move like Thunder Fang or Stone Edge, and either threaten it out or clear away any hazards. Additionally, with access to strong Flying STAB you aren't left completely helpless against Grass Types and can beat down Fighting Types even harder should you choose to give up a moveslot for Air Slash/Hurricane. With proper scouting, it can also serve as a check to physical variants of the ever popular Sceptile in a pinch, but it should not be the main answer for your team as any special variant will blow it away with ease. Toxic can be used to whittle down mons that could otherwise come in and set-up on you such as Mushy and MAudino, however in my opinion you're usually just better off U-Turning out into an appropriate answer 9 times out of 10. Regardless, it's a valid option.

Unfortunately, with the Flying Type comes a weakness to rocks, so keeping those off the field should be Pelipper's number one priority. Thankfully, Pelipper threatens most Stealth Rock users with its STAB, so your opponent will have to think twice before just setting them up in your face. That said, after even a single round of rocks, you do lose your ability to switch reliably into some of the more powerful attackers such as Archeops, and even Banded Sawk has a small chance of 2HKOing with CC after one round of Rocks and Lefties, so beware.

Overall, while Pelipper certainly does have the drawback of being a Defogger that is weak to Stealth Rock, I do believe that it brings enough to the table to warrant a rise to B Rank. With reliable recovery, Scald being Scald, and the ability to grab momentum and check a plethora of physical attackers, Pelipper can find a place on teams that require hazard control and pairs well with mons that appreciate the slow U-Turn. With the introduction of new threats such as Steelix and old threats that are rising in popularity to take on the new threats, such as Piloswine, I'm convinced that Pelipper is a Solid B Rank in this meta, no more and no less.

Also, I think that Mantine deserves to rise from C- -> C+ for many of the same reasons as Pelipper, just replace any mention of "Physical Wall" with "Special Wall" and you could practically use the same write-up. I'm not motivated enough right now to do a full nom for this one, as there are some notable differences beyond Phys.Def vs Sp.Def, but I wanted to throw that out there as a talking point.

 

[Blast]

--> B

The drops hurt this thing a lot. Not being able to outspeed Sceptile at +2 is really bad for it, and Steelix also gives it heavy competition as a defensive Normal / Flying resist, so all of its sets are significantly harder to justify on a team. Just isn't on par with the other A- mons anymore.

--> B+ or B

It's basically useless against any team with Steelix, which is pretty bad in itself, and in general I think its opportunity cost is a lot higher than before. I'd much rather just use a different Normal resist + a different cleaner that isn't so matchup based, which makes it more teambuilding-specific than before. It also suffers from all the issues it's always had: its early- and mid-game presence is nonexistent, and it isn't impossible to stop late-game either.

I also have some other noms that aren't that relevant but they've been bugging for a while so I'm just getting them off my chest now:

--> unranked

Ditto just sucks, I wouldn't even consider this for any remotely serious team and I don't think anyone else has either. I'd prefer it unranked unless it has to go to D beforehand fsr, but I would definitely use any of the Pokemon currently in D before Ditto.

--> D

Similarly this thing's niche is vague at best, Sceptile and Lilligant are just better as offensive Grass-types and any niches it does have are pretty trivial. Those niches also almost never compare to Sceptile's Speed and Lilligant's access to Sleep Powder and Quiver Dance.

 

[soulgazer]

can you put simisage in unranked already, its fucking garbage now with sceptile being back

swanna is also rly rly bad and rly hard to justify on a team. its only rly good if u wanna ct teddeh, and even then his av hari / plume / ground boner has been kept in check lately lol. Like sure it has the ''offensive typing + movepool to threaten some stuff'', but it does jack shit to anything else + its frail. How can you justify running a Water/Flying 'mon that CAN'T EVEN SWITCH ON THE STUFF U WANT IT TO. AND THEN U WANT IT TO DEFOG TOO LIKE WHAT.

WHY.

soo bad.

 

[boltsandbombers]

-> B / B-

Mawile is yet another Pokemon that took a huge hit with this shift for a various reasons. First, its Swords Dance set is stopped cold by Mega Steelix, which beforehand was arguably its most effective set (it wasnt that great even at that) due to how fast the metagame was and how little setup opportunities it got. I mean it could run a cool mixed set with something like Fire Blast / Flash Cannon / Play Rough / Filler, but that still suffers the same issue as SD because it gets so little switch in opportunities and such a set would also have to run a -defense or -spdef nature. To an even further extent, the defensive Stealth Rock set is almost entirely overshadowed by Steelix outside of having a slightly better ability to switch into Shiftry.

-> Unranked

Keeping this simple and short, but what does this even do anyways? Sure it has prankster twave and weather as well as U-turn, but its just extremely mediocre at what it does and its super hard to justify using on any serious team. Even weather teams have Liepard which pretty much outclasses this entirely given how it has access to U-turn, twave, and both weathers.

-> C / C-

While I'm not going to deny that Cradily has a few merits with its unique typing allowing it to check a bunch of threats like Tauros, Rhydon, etc, but its just way too passive in this metagame. While in general balance teams may be getting better with the meta shifts, Cradily is such an awkward fit because of how it basically just forfeits all momentum, especially if you're put in a scenario where it's forced to recover which can be extremely obvious and telegraphed by a player. It checks stuff but its relying on piss poor weak STABs and Toxic to deal damage. Not to mention unless you run Earth Power (and by doing so you give up a STAB, Toxic, or Rocks) Steelix takes a huge dump on it and Garbodor gets free spikes.

I agree with unranking or dropping severely Simisage and Swanna, the former of which I used a bit before the drops and it was extremely underwhelming in practice despite being seemingly good on paper. Swanna suffers severely from its lack of raw power or raw bulk, which puts at an awkward place in between the bulky defoggers (Pelipper, Prinplup, Mantine) and the offensive ones, mainly Shiftry.

There's probably more stuff that needs moving around but this is what I had on my mind for now.

 

[erisia]

-> C / C-

While I'm not going to deny that Cradily has a few merits with its unique typing allowing it to check a bunch of threats like Tauros, Rhydon, etc, but its just way too passive in this metagame. While in general balance teams may be getting better with the meta shifts, Cradily is such an awkward fit because of how it basically just forfeits all momentum, especially if you're put in a scenario where it's forced to recover which can be extremely obvious and telegraphed by a player. It checks stuff but its relying on piss poor weak STABs and Toxic to deal damage. Not to mention unless you run Earth Power (and by doing so you give up a STAB, Toxic, or Rocks) Steelix takes a huge dump on it and Garbodor gets free spikes.

Cradily is passive as all hell but I don't think it's gotten much worse. I wouldn't use Cradily to check physical threats (Tauros sometimes has Iron Head / Tail, Rhydon sometimes has Megahorn, Sawk exists) but it's a great way to stop the likes of Vivillon and Lilligant due to its great special bulk, immunity to Sleep Powder, and neutrality to their main STAB moves, with Toxic, Recover, and Rock Slide being decent at dealing with them both. Immunity to Scald is also a nice asset for teams that don't want to risk Burns, alongside a resistance to Volt Switch from Rotom-formes and the admittedly declining Lanturn. Additionally, no defensive Pokémon in C and C- rank apart from Cryogonal and Vullaby have access to reliable recovery (and I think Vullaby could do with a rise anyways) so I don't really see it fitting there. Imo Specially Defensive is the way to go atm.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Why is regular Banette even ranked at all? It is garbage...

Yes it may be NU and not PU right now, but I think it's damn obvious it'll end up in PU soon enough anyways because of how bad it is, meaning there's no point in having it in the ranks at all. Why? This Pokemon is just so outright terrible and has such a small niche that is pretty much never worth using. I know the one thing it's good at is a suicide TR lead, but using dedicated TR isn't exactly a good idea anyways and Banette itself does literally nothing except set up TR and die. It's both frail and slow meaning it'll be killed off really quickly before it does anything, as a lot of things outpace it and potentially kill it. Not to mention it gets its ass handed to Kangaskhan, who just Fake Outs+kills, or better yet is bait for Taunt Skunk, or just anything faster that clicks Knock Off and does a lot to it. It doesn't really do anything at all. Its offensive movepool is also shallow meaning its offensive stats mean jack, and a lack of bulk makes its support movepool useless. Suicide TR doesn't make it viable.

It shouldn't be on there imo.

 

[marilli]

Even dentri stopped using cradily on every team for some time now. that should say enough about how bad that Pokemon is

Banette is terrible.

Jumpluff should drop below linoone, its memento set is only thing worth bothering yourself with, and even then there's other not-out classed memento like skunk

 

[Cheryl.]

Okay, so my last post about this mon didn't generate much discussion, so here you are:

Articuno to B+

Articuno is a very good and underrated mon in this current metagame. It actually got better with the drops, as it's a pretty good check to Sceptile (Except for the rare Rock Slide variants) and every other drop just gets 2HKOed or OHKOed by one of it's moves (Steelix gets 2HKOed by Ice Beam, Alt gets OHKOed by any Ice move ever) Ice/Flying is a great offensive typing rn, as Grass types are on the rise and the coverage between Ice Beam/ Freeze-Dry and Hurricane makes Articuno's switch ins a very few number. (Most of Articuno's definite counters have no realiable recovery, or aren't that good in general, or in the case of more offensive stuff like Aurorus, they have to watch out for HP Fighting/Ground lure variants) Articuno is surprisingly versatile as well, as it's sets can range from the most common one, Life Orb, to a decent defensive set, to even a Rain set to set up Rain and Cuno is decent for Rain teams to kill Grass types. Cuno is actually a good check to a lot of things, like Grass and Bug types, due to it's typing and 90/100/125 bulk, along with realiable recovery in Roost.

Articuno has a few faults, though, the biggest one being it's 4x weakness to Stealth Rock, which forces a team using Cuno to run hazard removal. But B rank does say that the pokemon in there do their jobs well, just that they need support, and I'm not nominating Cuno to A-, just B+. Cuno's 85 speed can also be a problem, as it can get outsped by a lot of fast mons, but most of these mons do not like taking a LO Hurricane or Ice Beam, and AgiliCuno is a thing. Cuno's Ice/Flying typing also makes it weak to common types like Rock and Fire, but team members can help compensate for this.

Overall, I think Cuno is a very good mon in this meta, with it's amazing offensive typing and good bulk, and the ability to check top threats like Sceptile or Scyther. Even with Cuno's apparent faults, I think it is still better than mons like Mismagius and Barbaracle and more on par with mons like Zangoose and Weezing.

Thoughts on the other noms:

Banette is pretty damn bad, it's got Gunk Shot for MegaDino but even that does not give this doll a niche. Unrank it plz

Mawile should drop imo, it gets cock-blocked by Steelix if it's not mixed, and it's defensive set is just outclassed by Steelix. It still has a niche in it's Fairy typing though, so maybe just B rank.

Floatzel should drop to B+, even though it just rose, it faces competition from Sceptile who is like the King of NU right now.

No opinion on the other nominations.

 

[Raseri]

Banette will be removed from the rankings when it drops to PU, there is always the chance of it pulling an RU Ambipom and sticking around, even though that is very unlikely

 

[Realistic Waters]

Marowak C ---> D or Unrank

This thing is a slow as sin with not a whole lot to offer outside of being slow wallbreaker with average typing and bulk. There's also the fact that this is dead weight against offence or after Knock off / Trick. It's outdone by other ground types whom are also powerful (Steelix, Rhydon, Torterra, Piloswine and Golurk for example) so I have a hard time of anyone wanting to use this on a serious team. Thick club isn't worth your time.

Metang C ---> D

Similar case to Mawile, Steelix being back means it's hard justifying it's usage. Something with more useful typing, recovery (even if it's passive) and better offensive and defensive approaches. It's knock off weakness hurts and it's partial psychic typing is really a hindrance most of the time and is a little to passive for most likings. It still holds the ability to beat Jynx and other ice types which why it can still stay ranked I guess.

Clefairy Unranked ---> C-/C

It's been nominated a few times but has been ignored. Anyway, this thing is more than usable. Softboiled means it's not taking up 2 moveslots with Wish Protect so it's able to abuse it's colourful movepool. Physically defensive calm mind sets have room to run Flamethrower to hit steel types and poisons neutrally. Specially defensive sets easily take on stuff like Altaria, Poliwrath, Magmortar and a load of other special attackers just like Mega Audino. Support/utility sets also have multiple options to use (stealth rock, Healing wish, thunder wave, knock off, seismic toss, toxic and there's not mentioning magic guard which ignores all hazards, status and all other indirect damage. Having an extra fighting resist comes in handy too. It's still not the bulkiest thing in the world and hates knock off but that's why im not noming it any higher haha.

 

[Teddeh]

Disagree with dropping marowak to unranked, it's got a niche. It has knock off + eq + literally 0 switch ins. It basically tears bulky teams apart and it's worth a spot in the ranking thread, even if it is D / C.
Agree with clefairy completely, agree with metang too.
I agree with articuno rise to B+
Agree with cradily drop (simply put, i think it's a pretty terrible and passive)
Volbeat drop is an interesting one, I actually intend to try it out for different uses, i'll remain without opinions for now.
Agree with everything else tbh

I'd like to propose mantine and pelipper shouldn't be compared for anything apart from typing. Mantine is a special check, with added physical bulk to check things. Pelipper however is a physical check, mainly checking fighting types with recovery. In all honesty, pelipper is not a good special pokemon check. It loses to rott, ludicolo, pyroar, where mantine does not. Not to mention ability is the main difference between these two, since water absorb is a priceless ability. I'd honest put mantine somewhere in B right now, pelipper maybe along similar lines, but in my opinion for different reasons as they both have their niches.

Also, I'd suggest that people stop theorymon'ing and actually use a pokemon before nominating it. Everyone assumed musharna was worse now skunk is in the tier, but it was still godly, same applies now imo.

 

[MZ]

murkrow needs to be ranked, it has a fucking amazing movepool with the notables being prankster twave/roost/whatever, sucker punch, brave bird, pursuit, dark pulse, heat wave for steelix, so basically you can customize it a ton, prankster twave for things you cant beat is nice, insomnia is relevant because it's NU, this is easily better than ranked stuff which is a bad argument but true. Excellent speed+offensive typing+priority+movepool+abilities and this gets no love.
Murkrow @ Life Orb
Ability: Insomnia / Prankster
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Brave Bird
- Pursuit / Dark Puse
- Heat Wave / Twave
Sample set, you can run a ton of other stuff tbh. I'm not saying good rank because it has zero defenses (0 SpA Weezing Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Murkrow: 186-219 (71.2 - 83.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock) and can be hard to fit on teams with its almost negative defensive input but I don't see any reason this cant at least be in D. Rapture. was using it and might have more to say, hopefully this post isn't too poor

 

[Rapture]

umm yea Murkrow is something that I've been toying around with the last few days and it seems pretty cool from what I've seen. I ran a set similar to what Megazard posted, except with Tailwind in the last slot for some clutch speed control for when Murkrow is about to die. As far as negatives go, it's stupid frail and gets worn down pretty quick because of that and Life orb recoil. You'll be lucky to get off more than 3 or 4 hits a game so in my opinion, it's best used late game to pick off things with its decently powered stab attacks then tailwind so that something else can finish the job. Also like what Megazard said, its def better than shit like Ariados and Dusknoir so I think D is a fair ranking overall.

As far as what's being discussed, I would drop Ursaring and not rise Hariyama, it's better now but still pretty overrated tbh

 

[Maysoon]

--> unranked

Ditto just sucks, I wouldn't even consider this for any remotely serious team and I don't think anyone else has either. I'd prefer it unranked unless it has to go to D beforehand fsr, but I would definitely use any of the Pokemon currently in D before Ditto.

Please do this. Just from using this mon in dark horse I can say it is absolute trash. It shouldn't be C rank at all. There is very little in the meta that it wants to switch into and even then it can't really abuse a choice scarf. Not many mons are gonna be setting up against you and ditto in some match-ups is just dead-weight. Before you think of using ditto consider using anything else that can revenge kill.

 

[Machineae]

I've been trying to use Murkrow since BW2 ended and it's never been the same :/ shit was so cash back then. Honestly it's kinda mediocre, you're gonna wanna save it for the end game because it's piss weak even with LO, so you're relying on picking off a broken and battered team with your coverage (bbird HPgrass heatwave SP etc) or saccing it to get a twave off on a big threat.

If it's gonna be ranked because it's better than the shit in D then maybe the stuff in D shouldn't even be ranked because Krow is pretty garbage. I LOVE it, it was seriously one of my favorite mons but it's just not all that great IMO :/ D would work because it's not something you wanna run unless you're supporting it big time or making sure it has the optimal conditions it needs to succeed but why run Krow when you can run any other cleaner we have in NU that wouldn't be dead weight for a good portion of the match and has clear strengths? We're definitely not short of cleaners.

 

[Aasgier]

I've been trying to use Murkrow since BW2 ended and it's never been the same :/ shit was so cash back then. Honestly it's kinda mediocre, you're gonna wanna save it for the end game because it's piss weak even with LO, so you're relying on picking off a broken and battered team with your coverage (bbird HPgrass heatwave SP etc) or saccing it to get a twave off on a big threat.

If it's gonna be ranked because it's better than the shit in D then maybe the stuff in D shouldn't even be ranked because Krow is pretty garbage. I LOVE it, it was seriously one of my favorite mons but it's just not all that great IMO :/ D would work because it's not something you wanna run unless you're supporting it big time or making sure it has the optimal conditions it needs to succeed but why run Krow when you can run any other cleaner we have in NU that wouldn't be dead weight for a good portion of the match and has clear strengths? We're definitely not short of cleaners.

Thank you for writing this post. I was almost writing a joke post about how Pikachu is better than a Murkrow that doesn't make use of Prankster.

And Pika's pretty garbage either, though Extreme Speed is hilarious and even if you don't run it you have a plethora of coverage options, or an extremely powerful STAB (Volt Tackle) to choose from. Sure you can support Pikachu to do pretty well but there are so many better mons it should never be ranked.

 

[Realistic Waters]

I've used Murkrow a little bit in the past and have had some success with it. Murkrow isn't really that weak :/ 120BP Brave Bird stab with LO hurts a whole lot of things and a stab sucker punch makes up for its good while not amazing speed. Infact it can 2HKO a decent proportion of the tier. I'd rather use Brave Bird / Sucker Punch / Heat Wave / Thunder Wave with Prankster though over the sample set Megazard posted because its not really able to successfully trap anything because its being outspeed or the fact that opponents can even stay in and take advantage of its paper thin bulk. Thunder Wave really helps out with dangerous set up sweeper's/attackers. Hell even psychic can be considered because it 2HKO's Garb and Weezing (hits a few other targets too) without all the BB recoil followed by rocky helmet and aftermath which probably kills it lol. D rank seems like a good place possibly pushing to C- despite the fact the fact it faces a few problems.

I'd post calcs and make a better post too but I'm on mobile so forgive me :x

 

[kay]

To go as far as to say Prankster is the only reason Murkrow is better then Pikachu is simply absurd. And even if that was the case giving Prankster to a mon with such a deep move pool as Murkrow can be extremely good.

Machineae you said you need to support it a lot when it's Murkrow who is the one who supports your team. Bringing prioirty twave makes it extremely hard to revenge kill as the thing you're using to kill it will be paralyzed which opens the door for every other mon on your team to out speed that threat. In moments where you have to die it can cripple something before it drops. It's an offensive support mon, it's not something you build around and support in the same way you would an Aurorus.

Murkrow is also a flying type that isn't bothered by the likes of Steelix as Heat Wave will always 2hko 128/128 Steelix. This mon is extremely good into the meta as Sceptile can't revenge kill it for fear of twave, it beats lix, and even more it can't be revenge killed by weakened mons/ slower prioirty/ frail mons because it even has access to Sucker Punch. So things like Hitmonchan, weakened Kangaskan, Swellow, Jynx with a sash broken, and rotom-n all can not revenge kill it.
And even the things that can live a hit cleanly such as Samurott, Tauros, Archeops, Sceptile, and Pyroar all have to be willing to take a t-wave just to kill it.

Over all it offers a lot for offensive teams. The only down side is actually getting in it as it's too frail to safely switch into anything it's not immune to. But that doesn't mean it's horrible or should only be ranked in D or that pikachu us almost as good. This mon has a lot going for it that should honestly be enough to get a decent rank. Twave is broken.