Other ORAS Metagame Discussion

[QueenOfHax]

Nidoking shouldn't be compared to Landorus since they check different things. Notable advantages Nidoking has over Landorus include:
-Strong secondary STAB in Sludge Wave, while Landorus doesn't have a secondary STAB to use;
-Fairy resistance, meaning it can safely switch in against the likes of Clefable and Sylveon;
-no 4x Ice weakness, so it's not destroyed by random HP Ices and can survive Ice Shards;
-Toxic immunity and SR resistance, so it fares better against stall (both are forced out by Cresselia and Chansey anyways, but Nidoking can switch in and out more easily);
-Better SE coverage granted by Fire Blast, Ice Beam and Thunderbolt. If your team needs to handle specific threats with a 4x weakness such as Ferrothorn, Gyarados and Dragonite, Nidoking is the superior choice;
-Doesn't rely on Focus Miss for coverage.

These advantages are undeniable and make Nidoking stand out, so under any circumstance should it be just dismissed as an inferior Landorus.

 

[firehusky]

-Strong secondary STAB in Sludge Wave, while Landorus doesn't have a secondary STAB to use

Yeah except Landorus has 30 more special attack

-Fairy resistance, meaning it can safely switch in against the likes of Clefable and Sylveon

Kind of a moot point because Landorus has a ground immunity

-no 4x Ice weakness, so it's not destroyed by random HP Ices and can survive Ice Shards

Eh I guess this is true but this isn't really a notable advantage and it's not important enough to make nidoking a non inferior version of landorus

-Toxic immunity and SR resistance, so it fares better against stall (both are forced out by Cresselia and Chansey anyways, but Nidoking can switch in and out more easily)

Landorus is almost always paired with a pursuit trapper so it does well against stall, and even then it fares better against stall than nidoking with a CM set. It also has knock off to beat a weakened chansey

-Better SE coverage granted by Fire Blast, Ice Beam and Thunderbolt. If your team needs to handle specific threats with a 4x weakness such as Ferrothorn, Gyarados and Dragonite, Nidoking is the superior choice

I mean this is true but landorus is a lot more unpredictable as the only move you know it's carrying is earth power, and it can easily take out many of its checks and counters with the appropriate coverage move, such as rock slide for gyarados and hp ice for gliscor. Landorus with rock slide and hp ice already beats all of the mons you mentioned and it can change its coverage depending on its teams needs so they're pretty equal in terms of dealing with specific threats with a specific coverage move

-Doesn't rely on Focus Miss for coverage.

Landorus doesn't always run focus blast, and again this advantage isn't important enough to make nidoking viable.

 

[Random Passerby]

Nidoking shouldn't be compared to Landorus since they check different things. Notable advantages Nidoking has over Landorus include:
-Strong secondary STAB in Sludge Wave, while Landorus doesn't have a secondary STAB to use; (Landorus has 115 SpA compared to Nido's 85 SpA so it hits harder on neutral targets)
-Fairy resistance, meaning it can safely switch in against the likes of Clefable and Sylveon (Lando has Ground immunity so it switches in on Garchomp, Excadrill, Lando-T and other EQ spammers)
-no 4x Ice weakness, so it's not destroyed by random HP Ices and can survive Ice Shards (Nothing is gonna Ice Shard you since Ice STAB users Mamoswine and Weavile at worst speed tie with you and has Icicle Crash. )
-Toxic immunity and SR resistance, so it fares better against stall (both are forced out by Cresselia and Chansey anyways, but Nidoking can switch in and out more easily); (Lando 6-0 Stall with CM. Also, it can act as a lure with Knock Off and Rock Slide so it too can dismantle defensive cores)
-Better SE coverage granted by Fire Blast, Ice Beam and Thunderbolt. If your team needs to handle specific threats with a 4x weakness such as Ferrothorn, Gyarados and Dragonite, Nidoking is the superior choice; (Only on Super Effective hits. Lando hits much harder neutrally and is uncounterable since it is so versatile)
-Doesn't rely on Focus Miss for coverage.

You also forgot to mention that Lando has much more Speed than Nidoking and can sweep offensive teams with Rock Polish or Stall with Calm Mind.

These advantages are undeniable and make Nidoking stand out, so under any circumstance should it be just dismissed as an inferior Landorus. (I believe you mean no instead of any)

Replies in bold.

 

[Karxrida]

The Fairy resist doesn't even matter because every offensively-inclined Fairy bar Clefable can OHKO Nidoking with secondary STAB/coverage or 2HKO with resisted hits.

 

[Azureaper]

These advantages are undeniable and make Nidoking stand out, so under any circumstance should it be just dismissed as an inferior Landorus.

Nidoking also has access to sucker punch. I think priority in itself is an advantage.

Landorus is almost always paired with a pursuit trapper so it does well against stall, and even then it fares better against stall than nidoking with a CM set. It also has knock off to beat a weakened chansey

Most Nidoking sets run natures that allow it to carry superpower for the sole purpose of hitting Chansey.

 

[bludz]

If you want to use Nidoking by all means do it. It's pretty widely accepted that Landorus is far better primarily because of the typing, power and speed along with setup options (admittedly Nidoking does have a great movepool). If you choose to believe otherwise that is fine but I do not see the point in asking peoples' opinions and then arguing against them.

 

[Norne]

Honestly nidoking is really a poorsman Lando I. I don't know why people keep arguing about it, Lando fulfils multiple roles and despite an "inferior" coverage movepool or secondary stab poses a bigger threat with key moves like CM, knock off, Taunt and even u turn(A weird choice but it exists), its harder to predict the role of Landorus I in a team and make a right choice than the standard role of nidoking.

 

[Azureaper]

If you want to use Nidoking by all means do it. It's pretty widely accepted that Landorus is far better primarily because of the typing, power and speed along with setup options (admittedly Nidoking does have a great movepool). If you choose to believe otherwise that is fine but I do not see the point in asking peoples' opinions and then arguing against them.

I'm not trying to argue that Nidoking is better. I just want people to acknowledge that it can be useful.

 

[Pooch13]

Honestly nidoking is really a poorsman Lando I. I don't know why people keep arguing about it, Lando fulfils multiple roles and despite an "inferior" coverage movepool or secondary stab poses a bigger threat with key moves like CM, knock off, Taunt and even u turn(A weird choice but it exists), its harder to predict the role of Landorus I in a team and make a right choice than the standard role of nidoking.

Imo both are viable and they are not 100% the same mon, but itss better to use lando. Nido can fit in some teams too though but you d have to be looking exaclty for what Nido offers and Lando doesnt.

 

[bludz]

It's gonna be difficult to convince most people that Nidoking is worth using in OU when it's not listed on the viability rankings. Also just because something can be useful doesn't mean its viable because it may be outclassed by something else. Examples include Umbreon/Vaporeon which can have use but are generally outclassed by stuff like Sylveon or Alomomola.

 

[Celticpride]

I'm not trying to argue that Nidoking is better. I just want people to acknowledge that it can be useful.

Honestly it really can't be useful in OU. Just use it in UU, it's actually decent down there.

 

[Azureaper]

Honestly it really can't be useful in OU. Just use it in UU, it's actually decent down there.

The Azumarill switch-ins I've annihilated with sludge wave would disagree.

 

[p2]

The Azumarill switch-ins I've annihilated with sludge wave would disagree.

You could say the same for Landorus since Sludge Wave is very common on it

And nobody should be switching Azumarill into Nidoking in the first place

 

[Froggyboy]

Landorus can do that too.

 

[Azureaper]

Hmm...I see. I'll go ahead and change Nidoking to Lando on my Showdown team now.

 

[Random Passerby]

The Azumarill switch-ins I've annihilated with sludge wave would disagree.

Why would a Fairy willingly switch into a Nidoking?
Also, Lando-I can do the same thing with Sludge Wave.

EDIT: Didn't read Froggyboy's post, haha

 

[Wu Thang]

What you guys expect with the (maybe) return of Aegislash ?
No fairy ahah, a rise of Mandibuzz, S.Def Gliscor and Bisharp
We return on early XY...

 

[Enki]

A rise on Chesnaught, Mandibuzz, Zapdos, Landorus-Incarnate, Bisharp, Keldeo, Mega Charizard X, Mega Charizard Y, Mega Gyarados, a bit of Mega Tyranitar, Excadrill and Thundurus (choice scarf users will have problems on a metagame with Aegislash, so we're back wth the old "Thundurus counters Mega Zard X with Thunder Wave" meme).
A decrease of Mega Diancie, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Gallade, Mega Metagross, Lati@s, Starmie, Talonflame, due to the difficulty on keeping rocks off the field, Slowbro, nah I can't be bothered with it, just say majority of psychic types will meet their doom.

We might also see the dreading "double genie+powerful as fuck mega" core that was part of mid XY with the power up Thundurus and Lando incarnate(s) are getting.

 

[Norne]

What you guys expect with the (maybe) return of Aegislash ?
No fairy ahah, a rise of Mandibuzz, S.Def Gliscor and Bisharp
We return on early XY...

Not really worth the discussion in my opinion but magnet rise aegis renders SPDef gliscor useless and good old sub toxic aegis shits on mandibuzz, not to mention the rise on bisharp and the bane of every psychic type not called np earth power celebi or LO analytic starmie as lure.

Also the second coming of Keldeo/Mlop cores and the pummeling of the latitwins into near oblivion. I guess I forgot to note the rise of Mgyara, chessnaugth, the second coming of sand offence pursuit ttar tornT gaining relevance and double regenerator cores, Charizard both forms and the solidification of Landorus I and T plus a spike in Garchomp popularity for a few weeks.

 

[Punchshroom]

magnet rise aegis renders SPDef gliscor useless

Pretty sure SpD Gliscor carries Taunt, so between SubTect Aegi's temporary immunity can wear out pretty fast and gets prevented from Magnet Rising again, while Gliscor easily tanks and heals off Aegislash's hits. Aegi would also struggle trying not to expose itself in Blade Stance as it attacks into Protect or give Gliscor a free Sub as it King's Shield (I don't even think Magnet Rise Aegi has room for this); the matchup is very difficult for Aegi unless it gets lucky SpD drops from Shadow Ball or just carries HP Ice (which, tbh, might not be too farfetch'd considering its newfound advantage against Landorus and TankChomp). If Gliscor carries Knock Off, Aegi would most likely definitely lose as Gliscor can easily threaten a KO on Blade Stance Aegi even as it is floating. Meanwhile, Gliscor has a much easier time against other Aegi variants.

SpD Gliscor is by far the most consistent all-around Aegislash counter I've seen, but it's kind of the only one right now; other counters can get clipped by certain sets, or even beat only one Aegislash variant.

 

[Norne]

Pretty sure SpD Gliscor carries Taunt, so between SubTect Aegi's temporary immunity can wear out pretty fast and gets prevented from Magnet Rising again, while Gliscor easily tanks and heals off Aegislash's hits. Aegi would also struggle trying not to expose itself in Blade Stance as it attacks into Protect or give Gliscor a free Sub as it King's Shield (I don't even think Magnet Rise Aegi has room for this); the matchup is very difficult for Aegi unless it gets lucky SpD drops from Shadow Ball or just carries HP Ice (which, tbh, might not be too farfetch'd considering its newfound advantage against Landorus and TankChomp). If Gliscor carries Knock Off, Aegi would most likely definitely lose as Gliscor can easily threaten a KO on Blade Stance Aegi even as it is floating.

SpD Gliscor is by far the most consistent all-around Aegislash counter I've seen, but it's kind of the only one right now; other counters can get clipped by certain sets, or even beat only one Aegislash variant.

Fair enough, I assumed a posible scenario in wich magnet rise was used as it switched in, but with protect stall unless HP Ice is in the equation and knock off isn't it still wins the 1v1 reliably without losing momentum.

 

[p2]

Why has everybody seem to have forgotten about possibly the best Aegislash counter in the game?

Meloetta is pretty underrated in OU, being able to check a plethora of special attackers, while being able to hard counter some of the biggest threats in the tier like Gengar and doing a pretty good job of checking things like Landorus-I. Plus it counters nearly any possible Aegislash variant. I don't know why it was dropped from the VR a while ago because it still has a pretty neat niche in OU and it has more use now that Aegislash is everywhere.

pretty short post, but it's 3am ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Norne]

Why has everybody seem to have forgotten about possibly the best Aegislash counter in the game?

Meloetta is pretty underrated in OU, being able to check a plethora of special attackers, while being able to hard counter some of the biggest threats in the tier like Gengar and doing a pretty good job of checking things like Landorus-I. Plus it counters nearly any possible Aegislash variant. I don't know why it was dropped from the VR a while ago because it still has a pretty neat niche in OU and it has more use now that Aegislash is everywhere.

Welp, pursuit is still used a lot and knock off from Lando still hurts. It's a mixed bag to be honest, I would consider it on the aegislash suspect but I don't see much use of her for a non aegislash intensive later as torn t does its job better and most importantly, it fits on more teams.

 

[Aspectoflife]

Why has everybody seem to have forgotten about possibly the best Aegislash counter in the game?

Meloetta is pretty underrated in OU, being able to check a plethora of special attackers, while being able to hard counter some of the biggest threats in the tier like Gengar and doing a pretty good job of checking things like Landorus-I. Plus it counters nearly any possible Aegislash variant. I don't know why it was dropped from the VR a while ago because it still has a pretty neat niche in OU and it has more use now that Aegislash is everywhere.

pretty short post, but it's 3am ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

What does meloetta do to aegislash? Don't they just wall each other, and aegi can flash cannon

 

[DarkNostalgia]

meloetta runs shadow ball