Would it be possible to get a thread to discuss possible suspects? Since this thread is supposed to be about the current meta a thread dedicated to potential suspects seems like it could work.Keep discussion more towards meta discussion and not suspect discussion. By this I mean don't imply bans or treating it like a definitive suspect thread. I don't mind if you talk about somethings effect on meta though. More civility less idiocy, it's a good motto to live by
Or maybe you could let the meta settle before looking for more problems lol? It's been less then two weeks since the last test finished. Besides the last time a thread like that went up was three suspects ago (just before Metagross iirc) and things were much more unsettled. I don't really think there's enough potentially broken things to talk about "well I think x is broken" without looking for problems that aren't really there.Would it be possible to get a thread to discuss possible suspects? Since this thread is supposed to be about the current meta a thread dedicated to potential suspects seems like it could work.
no cause I rather not have the kid who got in smogon by faking his age and finding this thread to suggest suspecting stuff like talonflame or whatever absurdity those sort of threads attract.Would it be possible to get a thread to discuss possible suspects? Since this thread is supposed to be about the current meta a thread dedicated to potential suspects seems like it could work.
You basically just repeated what I said with the exception of adding that taunt isn't necessary on a stall breaker, which is right, but most stall breakers do carry tauntNot really correct either.
A Wallbreaker is a Pokemon with high offensive stats and strong coverage which enables it to break a majority of the defensive spectrum with sheer power and thus is threatening defensive cores.
- Garde(M), Zard-Y, Kyu-B, Keldeo
A Stallbreaker is a Pokemon with a great matchup against stall which can beat stall almost on its own. Taunt is an option here but no must-have.
- Clefable (CM/Magic), Goth
Only trouble is by running Wisp on Gard you aren't running focus blast or taunt so you let Chansey or Heatran beat you. Also it takes up a mega slot and has inferior bulk.Alright, thought I would contribute my 2 cents in this discussion.
Manaphy, while it looks great on paper, actually isn't as good as people are making it out to be. Base 100 SpA is really weak in this meta and the lack of Life Orb makes it even more apparent, especially when you are relying on a 80 BP move (Starmie can at least hold a LO and uses Hydro Pump and has Analytic to nuke switch-ins.) While I'm not implying that Starmie > Manaphy, this actually shows that before set-up, Manaphy's damage output is quite disappointing and it misses out on some important KOs, even when the hit is Super Effective (for instance, Ice Beam fails to 2HKO standard Latias and doesn't even OHKO Thundurus-I). Sure, Scald is a retarded move but you are relying on a 30 % chance to burn. For reference, people are already claiming 70 % accuracy Focus Blast as shaky so the times when Scald doesn't burn means you are still doing nothing much that is meaningful. Furthermore, while Manaphy has 100/100/100 bulk, it needs to take hits to set-up so it is actually easier to KO than was implied (since it lacks power, desperate people might simply keep their Pokemon in and sac it in a last-ditch attempt to hit Manaphy. Example: Scald doesn't OHKO Mixed Hippowdon who can either EQ it for almost 40% or Whirlwind it out). As already stated, you really need to be at high health to be threatening (to set-up and sweep), so you really don't want to switch it in to check stuff which makes you lose your only chance to sweep.
Let's compare it with something else, say Mega Gardevoir. Mega Gard has the same Speed as Manaphy but Pixilate Hyper Voice and STAB Psyshock are much more powerful than Manaphy, limiting it' switch-ins to Steel-types and Fire-types. However, Mega Gardevoir has the tools necessary to weaken those checks to it, for example, if Scizor or Mega Metagross carelessly switches in on a Will-O-Wisp, they are crippled for the remainder of the match. Victini is actually 2HKOed if Rocks are up while Klefki and Jirachi doesn't appreciate Taunt or Will-O-Wisp wearing them down either. Talonflame seems great until you realise Psyshock cleanly 2HKOes it, even the Stallbreaker set.
On Manaphy I think the main contention of the debate really is regarding the boost. Since it definitely needs to boost but it does manage it with ease, the problem is that it necessitates it in order to be a threat.Pre boost Manaphy is quite weak, but with its bulk it can boost against bulkier teams quite easily and be near impossible to stop. It doesn't even need the scald burn most of the time.
I hate to stop the noisy manaphy's hype train, but really people needs to wake up and stop overrating him or her whatever the fuck it is, that uninvested bulk isnt going to prevent the 2OHKO from most offensive shit in the tier and some defensive threads and considering that monowater is not bad but its not great really his chances to set up are not that common and quite overrated also if u dont get the hax burn with that weak scald it's just a wasted turn and it's better left to a better wall breaker like band azu or whatever mon that hits hard.On Manaphy I think the main contention of the debate really is regarding the boost. Since it definitely needs to boost but it does manage it with ease, the problem is that it necessitates it in order to be a threat.
My gripe about this is that it seems fairly situational too... Because it doesn't account as to what you're aiming for when you bring in Manaphy? It is easy to say it needs to boost in order to cause substantive damage but regardless the threat of it easily boosting is enough to pressure the opponent to be wary. Whereas on your end you're kinda in a favorable spot to decide what you want to do with Manaphy. Spread status? Or create a hole with the opposing team? Wear down checks with coverage? I don't think the revenge scenarios quite capture this nuance, in so much that Manaphy users gain a momentum with regard to the mind game. The threat of tail glow is what gives Manaphy this leverage for most part, it's not very forgiving to make that blunder for most part playing against it. Even if you do blunder a bit as a Manaphy user well you have the bulk to cushion to the blow, and still be a threat with tail glow.
Sure there are other set-up wall breakers or cleaners that are stronger at +2 but they don't carry the same bulk and defensive typing that makes it noticeably easier to set up -- that is why it is A+ and even argued for a higher rank it is easier to set up as compared to others.
The question is why are you even aiming to set up on the most offensive mons capable of taking almost an entire chunk of your health? That kinda disregards what I am pointing out in thinking there isn't any intelligent play involved in your choice of set up, if at all. You don't just try to attempt a clean sweep when you don't even know the possible revenge killers of the opposing team, or knowing there are base 101+ and up waiting in the wings to take you down after a kill. If it is simply to create a hole in the defensive backbone of the opposing team, then no problem because you're after that trade off.I hate to stop the noisy manaphy's hype train, but really people needs to wake up and stop overrating him or her whatever the fuck it is, that uninvested bulk isnt going to prevent the 2OHKO from most offensive shit in the tier and some defensive threads and considering that monowater is not bad but its not great really his chances to set up are not that common and quite overrated also if u dont get the hax burn with that weak scald it's just a wasted turn and it's better left to a better wall breaker like band azu or whatever mon that hits hard.
Just tested, it's not implemented yet.So Hoopa came out today in Japan. What sets do you guys plan on running with it?
Also is it implemented in PS yet?
I believe Hoopa-U's item is from a cutscene that triggers once you get Hoopa a la Diancite, so they should both be legal.is this hoopa in its base form, or hoopa-u?
hoopa-i will be a decent stallbreaker. subcm with focus blast+shadow ball would be a cool stallbreaker, but i cant see it being very effective against other archtypes, due to a good portion of teams having a bisharp/tyranitar/weavile nowadays.
You get it from entering a Pokemart with Hoopa in your partyI believe Hoopa-U's item is from a cutscene that triggers once you get Hoopa a la Diancite, so they should both be legal.
i think this one is even better because u can pursuit trap the op mon hoopa?!!!???!!!!!!hoopa u is being released soon! you might be wondering to yourself "how can i counter this monstosity! look at that movepool! look at those stats!" due to its banning in the unrealesed ou minitour that was held a lil while ago.
well, dear smogon user, heres the answer to all your problems!
Drapion @ Assault Vest
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- X-Scissor
- Pursuit
- Poison Jab
- Crunch
252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Drapion: 133-156 (38.6 - 45.3%)
wow, was that damage? haha, sorry, i was too busy not noticing.
In all seriousness, I think we should all take a minute to breathe, and look at this from an unbiased and open-minded point of view. I've heard people talking about a suspect, and even a quickban for this already, and I think that's jumping the gun. Depsite its banning in the unrealesed minitour, Hoopa-U might not end up being worthy of one! Not to say it isn't, but we really don't know yet. That was not an accurate representation as to its effectiveness in the current OU metagame.
tldr: dont start clammering for a ban or suspect because we havent even used this thing yet, lol.